German Intel Agency Helped NSA Tap Fiber Optic Cables In Germany

An anonymous reader writes Der Spiegel has written a piece on the extent of collaboration between Germany's intelligence agency, Bundesnachrichtendienst (BND), and the U.S.'s National Security Agency (NSA). The sources cited in the piece do reveal BND's enthusiastic collusion in enabling the NSA to tap fiber optic cables in Germany, but they seem inconclusive as to how much information from the NSA's collection activity in the country is actually shared between the NSA and BND. Of note is evidence that the NSA's collection methods do not automatically exclude German companies and organizations from their data sweep; intelligence personnel have to rectro-actively do so on an individual basis when they realize that they are surveilling German targets. Germany's constitution protects against un-warranted surveillance of correspondence, either by post or telecommunications, of German citizens in Germany or abroad and foreigners on German soil.

Comments

End-run around everyone's rights

[sir-gold]

Wow, this is an impressive loophole that the NSA and BND have found. The BND can't spy on Germans, and the NSA can't spy on Americans, but they CAN spy on each other, and then share whatever they find.

The sharing doesn't even have to be official, the BND and NSA could just claim that the information was "leaked" to them by some anonymous 3rd party, allowing them to gain all the intelligence they wanted on their own citizens without actually spying on them directly.

Re:End-run around everyone's rights

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, this is an impressive loophole that the NSA and BND have found. The BND can't spy on Germans, and the NSA can't spy on Americans, but they CAN spy on each other, and then share whatever they find.

There is no loophole there, it is strictly illegal for both parties to participate in this. The means used to acquire the information is irrelevant.
Legally there is no difference between NSA planting a bug in your house or having someone else to do it for them.

The loophole is in that not everyone gets punished when they break the law.

Re:End-run around everyone's rights

[zedaroca]

The BND can't spy on Germans, and the NSA can't spy on Americans, but they CAN spy on each other

Except that it is illegal for anyone to spy on Germans, the NSA CAN'T do that from anywhere in the world without violating the German constitution. When they do it on German soil the Germans have the legal authority to arrest the criminals and they should do so. Not doing so is to disobey their laws and law enforcement duties. When the crimes against their citizens are committed from other countries, the appropriate thing to do would be to ask for the criminals extradition.

It is the BND's job to keep their people safe from foreign criminals who violate their constitution, specially on their own territory. They are not doing their job properly and even if they claimed it as "leaked" information, they still would have to investigate if there are indications that the constitution is being violated.

Re:Little Brother Looking Up to Big Brother

[gweihir]

Stop lying. Or at least have the decency to lie only to yourself and do that in private.

Re:Just like the DDR or the 3rd Reich never happen

[Warbothong]

These people are doing the same things that were the very basis of oppression of any and all freedoms on German soil in these two regimes. It is like these cretins _want_ that state of affairs back.

They want that level of power, but since it's *them* this time, they'll only use it for "good" (ie. what *they* want).

Of course, they neglect to realise that's exactly what the Nazi's thought.