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Smartphones To Monitor Schizophrenics

Posted by samzenpus on from the is-the-phone-watching-me? dept.

the_newsbeagle writes Psychiatrists have realized that they can collect vast amounts of data about their patients using smartphone apps that passively monitor the patients as they go about their daily business. A prototype for schizophrenia patients is being tested out now on Long Island. The Crosscheck trial will look at behavior patterns (tracking movement, sleep, and conversations) and correlate them with the patient's reports of symptoms and moods; researchers hope the data will reveal the "signature" of a patient who is about relapse and therefore needs help.

49 of 99 comments (clear)

  1. The onion predicted it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Maybe we should have explained to psychiatrists that Is The Government Spying On Schizophrenics Enough? was a joke, not a roadmap.

    1. Re:The onion predicted it by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      I AM NOT PARANOID!!!!

      Because if you are THEY notice it immediately!

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  2. Re:The government *IS* a schizoid ! by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1

    Hah! I'm nicking that.

    --
    systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
  3. controlling words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    They are psychiatrists and yet oblivious to their own word choice pyschology.

    researchers hope the data will reveal the "signature" of a patient who is about relapse and therefore needs help.

    These people are still human beings with dignity aren't they? or are they just diseased chattled to be mitigated?
    How about:

    researchers hope the data will reveal the "signature" of a patient who is possibly experiencing symptoms and therefore might want help.

    If they understood anything about the patients they are supposedly helping, they would know that your attitude and intentions makes a big damn difference.

    1. Re:controlling words by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 5, Insightful

      These people are still human beings with dignity aren't they? or are they just diseased chattled to be mitigated?

      When, say, your daughter suddenly takes off for Florida, convinced that she will succeed in her new life as a monkey trainer, because the voices in her head said so, then she does need help. Period.

      There are blunt ways to put it, and sugar coated ways to put it, but the brain is malfunctioning and it needs help.

    2. Re:controlling words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Your brain is malfunctioning and you need help. You don't believe me? That's because your brain is malfunctioning and you need help!

      The entire fraudulent pseudoscience of psychiatry depends upon circular reasoning? You only think it does, because your brain is malfunctioning and you need help!!

    3. Re:controlling words by kruach+aum · · Score: 1

      I wish psychiatrists could stop you from getting upset on other people's behalves.

    4. Re:controlling words by flyneye · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I am doubtful of the smartphones role in this. One must be able to carry the phone without believing it is SPYING on you for the men who want to control you.
      I can see smartphones being discarded or traded and the best laid plans of ex-spurts falling to poo.

      --
      *Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
    5. Re:controlling words by flyneye · · Score: 1

      Oh , a little left brain hiccup from time to time never hurt anyone. But it does convince one that the television is watching them, the government is make-believe and the closet has an entrance to hell. Oddly you end up making a lot of left turns doing anything, but the medication is to die for.

      --
      *Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
    6. Re:controlling words by flyneye · · Score: 1

      Good psychologists offer therapy for that.

      --
      *Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
    7. Re:controlling words by TapeCutter · · Score: 1
      The met someone who was quite badly afflicted, it came out when he was dumped by a girl at age 17. He developed this thing for sneaking off and climbing trees during thunderstorms, he went missing about a decade ago, he lived on the south coast of NSW, the cops found his abandoned car in nearby bushland (dotted with gold rush era mine shafts), recent heavy rain meant dogs and human trackers had nothing to follow. AFAIK, he's still missing.

      Socialising with the mentally ill can be difficult but it's often what they need most. So a word of warning from personal experience, if you do find yourself in a social setting with a schizophrenic who starts losing the plot, then whatever you do, do not offer them a bong hit thinking it will calm them down. If you have a conscious then at a minimum you will be obliged to confess your ignorance to the ambulance crew, you will then be subjected to a short lecture in just how stupid you are by an angry psychiatric nurse, followed by a full-length repeat performance from the wife.

      because the voices in her head said so, then she does need help.

      Yes, she needs help to deal with them, but the standard approach is to try and get rid of the voices. I think this woman's alternative view of the voices in her head is worth listening to.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    8. Re:controlling words by jenningsthecat · · Score: 1

      ...But it does convince one that the television is watching them, the government is make-believe and the closet has an entrance to hell.

      Except for the 'closet' part, that sounds like a disturbingly accurate description of today's reality...

      --
      'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
    9. Re:controlling words by jenningsthecat · · Score: 1

      "Getting upset on other people's behalves" - isn't that called 'empathy'?

      --
      'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
    10. Re:controlling words by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Nope. It's called "having no life of your own so you feel the pressing urge to meddle with those of others".

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    11. Re:controlling words by RabidReindeer · · Score: 3

      Your brain is malfunctioning and you need help. You don't believe me? That's because your brain is malfunctioning and you need help!

      The entire fraudulent pseudoscience of psychiatry depends upon circular reasoning? You only think it does, because your brain is malfunctioning and you need help!!

      Except that schizophrenics generally know that their brain is malfunctioning. And they're not happy about it. They may reject help, but they know they're not normal.

      Now when a state-appointed psychiatrist declares that you are insane because you don't love this most perfect of all nations, that's a different matter.

    12. Re:controlling words by Stewie241 · · Score: 1

      I'm sure that when they develop sensors to detect attitude and intentions the psychiatrists will avail themselves of it.

      From what I gathered in the article this was about patients and/or their families coming to a doctor for help and using this as a tool for the doctor and patient to manage the patient's condition together.

      This reminds of the article about Target's ability to tell if a shopper is pregnant (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2102859/How-Target-knows-shoppers-pregnant--figured-teen-father-did.html).

      The data being collected is obviously a typical outworking of an internal state. It seems useful in providing the psychiatrist with a clue as to when it might be a good idea to call in and checkup on a patient, or to have a family member drop in.

      And yes, these are human beings with dignity. And obviously, there are complications with this particular condition that make things difficult, but if I had this condition I could imagine myself in my healthier times being interested in setting up a support system to prevent me from harming myself and/or others and ending up in the hospital.

    13. Re:controlling words by DNAtsol · · Score: 2

      Me thinks someone did not do so well in psych 101. Just because you do not understand something does not mean it is a pseudoscience. There is plenty of biomedical (e.g., structural and functional brain studies), behavioral, and genetic research that converge on the same conclusions, conducted by people with big egos who have no interest is propping up other peoples cute little pet theories. In other word, the science of psychological disorders is cut-throat and you better have evidence to support you're claim or else you will be intellectually mowed down and decapitated. This is not a tiny self-contained group of people patting each other on the back and playing a game of "Yes, and...". These are not members of the Lone Gunmen.

      --
      DNA, the splice of life.
    14. Re:controlling words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Indeed, I used to be schizoaffective and I made the mistake of coming in for help. The treatments themselves seemed to be designed to make the problem worse as they mostly underscored how differently my brain works from the model they're using. They also were trying to force me to buy into a reality that was just as non-existent as the one they were trying to get me to give up.

      The point here is that if doctors want to get people to come in for treatment, they need to exercise some judgment and professionalism. It still would have caused serious issues in my life, but I would have been done by now and not needing help. Right now I'm working through all the damage that the incompetent professionals did. And doing it on my own because it's damn hard to find a competent doctor that looks past the diagnosis to see what's actually going on.

    15. Re:controlling words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      >The entire fraudulent pseudoscience of psychiatry

      You bought this andi-psychology Scientology crap? Fuck you.

      I was born with an inability to synthesize serotonin, and lived in a Hell of chronic severe major depression for 54 years until somebody invented a drug (Viibryd) that turned my life from hopeless anxious suffering to a thriving and much more pleasant existence that now makes me glad that I DIDN'T kill myself all through those years.

      Some psychology is bogus, some practioners are bad at it or quacks, but not all psychology can be dismissed because you don't want to address your own issues and find denial and anti-scientism an effective avoidance technique.

      Again, fuck you.

    16. Re:controlling words by machineghost · · Score: 1

      Sometimes people trying to help you can't unless you let them. Try finding a good therapist (which might take a few attempts) and then once you find someone you can develop trust with try working with doctors. But remember, when your perception of things is distorted, it can be easy to see malice or incompetence when honest and qualified people face a difficult problem like mental illness.

    17. Re:controlling words by MillionthMonkey · · Score: 1

      Lots of people accuse psychiatrists in general of running a fraudulent pseudoscience. Aside from the issue of whether it's true or not, the accusations seem mostly to come from people who have recently stopped taking their meds cold turkey.

    18. Re:controlling words by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      What I found was that they did a shit job of listening. And anything I did tell them would wind up on my record where it would be used as rationalization not to listen in the future. The fact that this would wind up in my record is the main reason why I'd be very suspicious of letting them monitor me. The fact that the data might get leaked would be of secondary concern.

      There are definitely good doctors out there, but wading through the incompetents is a challenge. Some health insurers don't even employ people that are competent to treat this sort of major disorder.

      The whole field of mental health is about at the level of making fire by banging 2 rocks together, and all the fancy coats and drugs and gadgets and medical wards don't make it any less so, anymore than the proverbial lipstick on a pig. I've seen a lot of improvement over the last 100 years (no, not by living through all of them!) but there's a long, long way to go.

      Mental health treatments are appallingly subject to fads, and have been all the way back to Freud and Jung. I'm not totally intimate with the field, but even from a comparatively distant viewpoint, I've seen about 4 different waves go by just in my lifetime and each one seemed to be a one-size-fits-all application.

      Another thing is that while most psychologists I've known seemed pretty well-balanced, the psychiatrists all seemed to have a few rivets loose. And some of them with so many loose screws that their attitude towards people in general would seem likely to aggravate certain conditions among the patients themselves (I never cared for the word "client". It's a weasel word, and besides, you try to cure patients. Clients sounds too much like repeat business).

      I have no explanation as to the general instability of psychiatrists. It may be simply because while a medical doctor may accidentally kill a patient, a psychiatrist has to worry about accidentally inciting a patient, er, "client", to kill themselves. Or it could simply be that the profession attracts the mentally shaky people in the same way that technology attracts autistics and introverts. All I can do is report what I've seen.

      On top of all that, in the state where I live, you can refuse mental health treatment completely unless you're a clear and present danger to yourself or to the community, and even then compulsion is limited. But humans, even the sanest of them (assuming such exist) are perverse creatures, and in some cases a person will "protest too much". Meaning that they desperately want treatment, but don't want to be seen voluntarily seeking it. In other words, want to be "forced" to be treated. I knew someone of that stripe and it was very frustrating. The prohibitions on forcible treatment exist for a reason; because the process is too easily abused. But there's this Catch-22 area where you have people like my friend who won't get regular treatment and the very widespread situation where people on meds get feeling better and stop taking the meds that were making them feel better and relapse.

      Also, if you want paranoia, seek mental health through your employer's Human Resources provided facilities. How much of the normal doctor/patient confidentiality you lose when you do so is unclear to me, but I do know that HR - and your personnel record - will know more than is comfortable.

  4. Sure, that will help by domin_smog · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Giving a paranoid person a sense s/he is being observed 24/7...

    1. Re:Sure, that will help by qbast · · Score: 1

      Sure it will help. If they are *actually* observed 24/7 then they are not really paranoid anymore, just rational. See? Instant cure.

    2. Re:Sure, that will help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It may seem like a joke, but I have met people diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia for whom wearing loud clothes makes it rational that everybody is watching them, and alleviates the anxiety somewhat. If people get used to the fact that they are being observed 24/7, that their phones are always tapped by NSA/GCHQ, and that all their web activity is being watched to see if they are doing anything wrong, then it will make the paranoid delusions more rational. We'll never know for sure how far we are from that scenario, but if someone ten years ago insisted that the NSA were doing what they are, as we know from recent leaks, they would have been regarded as paranoid. That psychiatry at present just categorises symptoms and medicates with pills, rather than trying to understand what is happening in the mind of the person affected doesn't help.

    3. Re:Sure, that will help by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Yeah, just 'cause you're paranoid doesn't mean THEY ain't out to get you!

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    4. Re:Sure, that will help by TheCarp · · Score: 1

      There was a great writeup a while back which I haven't found in years, but described various neurotransmitters and what low/normal/high levels of each correspond to in terms of subjective experience. I could kind of see how this would work.... if you naturally are in a state of mind where you interpret everyones actions as relating to you "they are all looking at me" ...then having a story to connect that to "of course they are, this shirt is amazing"; then it changes the character of the experience.

      Wow the things people come up with, that really is clever mind hacking. Its almost like finding a trail of ants into your house and using strategic food placement to disrupt them and direct them elsewhere.

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
  5. Dangerous idea; locking patients up in a dragnet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I think it's important to realize here that a lot of people with psychological problems will refuse to get any help if psychiatrists in general are going to insist installing spyware on their wearable electronics. Maybe not so much because they don't trust the psychiatrist with the information, but more because it's relatively easy for others (government, police, spouses and family with technologically smart kids or in general people who don't have the same context as the psychiatrist has on his patient) to peek at the data too. Without a trust-relationship with the psychological helper I'm afraid people with psychological problems will not open up at all and will prefer hiding. Schizophrenia patients (among others) aren't necessarily stupid enough not to understand that monitoring software on their smartphone can and will most likely be abused for completely other purposes than improving the quality of the patient.

  6. Useful Technology by HangingChad · · Score: 5, Interesting

    As someone who used to answer the 911 psych calls for our volunteer FD in a rural area, a voluntary app like this could be really useful. Where we lived back then first responders were the only regular checks a lot of the psych cases ever got. By the time someone called 911, they were way off the sanity reservation. Then law enforcement got involved and packed them off to primary care. They'd stabilize on their meds, the hospital would cut them loose because they didn't have insurance, sometimes with a couple days worth of meds, and we'd start the cycle all over again. Anything that would alert medical personnel that someone was having a problem and find a way to get them some help before we got a call that they were chasing cows around in the pasture bare ass naked would be a good thing.

    I learned that rural areas are full of crazy people because the cost of living is lower and they could be crazy and not bother as many people. It was kind of surprising to find out how many of our neighbors were genuinely, seriously out there howling at the moon loony tunes (technical medical jargon).

    --
    That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
    1. Re:Useful Technology by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      before we got a call that they were chasing cows around in the pasture bare ass naked

      Wait, we're not supposed to do that? :-P

      My biggest concern is if someone is getting a little into the area where they're going to start exhibiting some of the symptoms of schizophrenia, remembering to bring their phone with them isn't going to be a priority.

      And then I question if this only really helps well funded/supported, well insured people or not. Not everybody who suffers from schizophrenia has really great access to such programs.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  7. I thought they already did by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Don't phones already monitor schizophrenics? And satellites. And TVs. And the radio. And the people on the bus. And dental fillings. And the neighbours dog. They're all monitoring 24/7.

    1. Re:I thought they already did by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      I wonder if that's some kind of "humoring the patient". Next, we'll start a program where we will call those pretending to be Napoleon "Sire".

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:I thought they already did by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Umm... because that's how he wanted to be addressed?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  8. Schizophrenia, not schizophrenic by JasonGoatcher · · Score: 1

    Um, not to be an ass, but a schizophrenic is someone who is suffering the symptoms of schizophrenia in a major way. When we're stable we simply suffer from schizophrenia. If someone is schizophrenic they definitely need to be hospitalized, but if it's just schizophrenia, not so much.

  9. Not already? by AndyKron · · Score: 1, Funny

    Doesn't our government do that already?

  10. The onion predicted it. by unterhunde · · Score: 1

    I have a few szo relatives. The onion nailed it. The paranoia of hidden cameras and whispers leading to hidden cameras and whispers.

  11. R.D. by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1, Insightful

    If you're not schizophrenic, you're not paying attention.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  12. You think that's a good idea? by Opportunist · · Score: 2

    It already takes a lot of work to convince paranoid schizophrenics to trust their psychiatrist enough to open up to him. And now that person who they finally tentatively trust should start to do exactly what the patients think their "enemies" are doing to them?

    Really? That's a good idea?

    I guess I'm further from understanding the human psyche and psychology altogether than I thought...

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  13. Analysis by opine · · Score: 1

    Is blocking app permissions seen as a sign of relapse for paranoid schizophrenics?

  14. WELDING 101 by JimSadler · · Score: 1

    Try to get a paranoid schizophrenic to carry a phone that collects his information. Obviously you would have to weld the smartphone to the guy as it is the very first thing he would focus on getting out of his life. A substantial number of mental patients feel that nothing at all is wrong with them or that they just have an insignificant, tiny, issue.

  15. I feel like the summary is missing it's ending by dkman · · Score: 1

    ... so a black van can roll up, grab them, and cart them away.

    --
    I refuse to sign
  16. Wait, isn't that what Facebook is for? by microsquishy · · Score: 1

    n/t

  17. First thing: break your phone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    When my schizophrenic brother was having his attacks, he used to think the wiring in the walls, appliances, metal shelves, silverware, anything metal was either talking to him (bleed-through he calls it) or emitting radiation. Several violent episodes where this went on and on.

    So during an episode, pretty much the first thing he'd do was throw all these items out in the yard and break his cellphone in half. You'd know for sure he was having issues was when the phone went dead.

    Lost an iPhone and several flip phones that way. I ended up getting him a Blackberry. They are cheap on eBay. No other reason. He can trash them all he wants.

    By the way, it turns out most appliances don't like being thrown out in the yard. This illness is incredibly destructive to the people involved and to their property.

  18. 1984 by fgouget · · Score: 1

    Governments have realized that they can collect vast amounts of data about their citizens using smartphone apps that passively monitor the citizens as they go about their daily business. A prototype for opponents is planned to be tested out soon on Long Island. The Tia trial will look at behavior patterns (tracking movement, sleep, and conversations) and correlate them with data gathered from past opponents; researchers hope the data will reveal the "signature" of a citizen who is about fall off the one true path and therefore needs help.

  19. The "Influencing Machine" in Schizophrenia by meehawl · · Score: 3, Informative
    Designing a machine to invisibly spy on schizophrenics. What could possibly go wrong? On the Origin of the "Influencing Machine" in Schizophrenia

    The schizophrenic influencing machine is a machine of mystical nature. The patients are able to give only vague hints of its construction. It consists of boxes, cranks, levers, wheels, buttons, wires, batteries, and the like. Patients endeavor to discover the construction of the apparatus by means of their technical knowledge, and it appears that with the progressive popularization of the sciences, all the forces known to technology are utilized to explain the functioning of the apparatus. All the discoveries of mankind, however, are regarded as inadequate to explain the marvelous powers of this machine, by which the patients feel themselves persecuted.

    --

    Da Blog
  20. My phone is a giraffe by gelfling · · Score: 1

    So I don't know what you're talking about.

  21. Where have they been for the last 10 years? by jbmartin6 · · Score: 2

    Google, the NSA, and others have realized that they can collect vast amounts of data about people using smartphone apps that passively monitor them as they go about their daily business

    FTFY

    --
    This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
    1. Re:Where have they been for the last 10 years? by jbmartin6 · · Score: 1

      Nuts, missed that this was redundant. Sorry gentle readers!

      --
      This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
  22. Re:damn by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

    I've been fucking your mother, and we've been talking about throwing you out of the basement so we can make it into a sex dungeon. What do you think?

    --
    If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.