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The New 501(c)(3) and the Future of Open Source In the US

An anonymous reader writes: If you're involved in the free and open-source software movement — especially in the United States — you may want to read through this, as long as it may seem. It appears that the United States' Internal Revenue Service has strongly shifted its views of free and open-source software, and to the detriment of the movement, in my opinion. From the article: "The IRS reasons that since Yorba’s open source software may be used for any purpose, Yorba is not a charity. Consider all the for-profit and non-charitable ways the Apache server is used; I’d still argue Apache is a charitable organization. (What else could it be?) There’s a charitable organization here in San Francisco that plants trees throughout the city for the benefit of all. If one of their tree’s shade falls on a cafe table and cools the cafe’s patrons as they enjoy their espressos, does that mean the tree-planting organization is no longer a charity?"

43 of 228 comments (clear)

  1. Don't mention the tree-planting thing! by halivar · · Score: 5, Funny

    You'll only give them ideas.

    1. Re:Don't mention the tree-planting thing! by BenSchuarmer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Trees produce oxygen. There's no telling who might be inhaling that oxygen!!! They could be supporting not just commercial customers, but criminals and terrorists!!!!!

    2. Re:Don't mention the tree-planting thing! by felrom · · Score: 2

      The entire IRS needs an enema from top to bottom. Gut their mission, strip their power, and reduce them to the few functions we actually need them to do.

      Then repeat with the ATF, DEA, DOE (both of them), EPA and FDA.

    3. Re:Don't mention the tree-planting thing! by lgw · · Score: 2

      Tax em all! As the US goes broke, anything and everything than can be changed to tax people more will be changed (yes, even the rich will be taxed more when we're broke enough, not that that will help much). What? Spend less instead? Which politician is going to give up those wonderful tax dollars flowing to his donors? The left? The right? Didn't think so.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    4. Re:Don't mention the tree-planting thing! by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 2

      If this interpretation of IRS's intent is correct, it's ridiculous.

      Let's say I go to a food bank (a charity). Hmmm... I could use that can of tomato sauce to shatter somebody's windshield.

      I could use a potato to block someone's car exhaust. Or -- naughty of naughties -- use it as ammo in a potato cannon! (Which, by the way, ATF has ruled "not a gun".)

      Hey... I could even use the cans from that tomato sauce to make a potato cannon... now we're starting to get somewhere!

      I guess we should probably just eliminate "charities", huh? I mean, that T-shirt from Goodwill could be used as a diaper.

    5. Re:Don't mention the tree-planting thing! by Archtech · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The IRS and corporations have this in common: they want everything to be measured in terms of money, and have no interest in anything that can't be measured in money. Consequently, they mistrust and dislike anything that is exchanged freely: they see it as theft from them, as they are entitled to a cut of every transaction.

      Let's barter informally as much as we can, just to spite the bastards.

      --
      I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
  2. 501(c)(3) Classes by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 5, Insightful

    From the wikis: charitable, religious, educational, scientific, literary, testing for public safety

    Why do you need to be charity? Why not educational/scientific?

    --
    I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    1. Re:501(c)(3) Classes by itzly · · Score: 5, Funny

      Why not religion ? Stallman makes a decent prophet.

    2. Re:501(c)(3) Classes by Mordok-DestroyerOfWo · · Score: 3, Funny

      Why not religion ? Stallman makes a decent prophet.

      But very little actual profit.

      --
      "Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right" - Salvor Hardin
    3. Re:501(c)(3) Classes by asylumx · · Score: 4, Funny

      Why not religion ? Stallman makes a decent prophet.

      But very little actual profit.

      Well then he won't make a very good religion...

    4. Re:501(c)(3) Classes by Moryath · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Most open-source "foundations" have been operating in a "give away the razor, sell the blades" mentality.

      Give away the razor (base software), sell the blades (support contracts / phone support / specific pay-for-implementation requests / etc).

      I can see why the IRS is having a hard time taking claims of being a nonprofit or public-benefit company seriously when that's examined. It's kind of taking the "how to make money off FOSS" instructions constantly published in the community at face value.

    5. Re:501(c)(3) Classes by 605dave · · Score: 4, Funny

      Which ones are the good ones again? I get confused.

      --
      Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a difficult battle. - Plato
    6. Re: 501(c)(3) Classes by kenh · · Score: 3, Informative

      Seriously, what 'Wiki' are you quoting? Why not quote actual IRS regulations?

      http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf...

      http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf...

      --
      Ken
    7. Re:501(c)(3) Classes by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 4, Funny

      Pastafarianism, Discordianism, Kopimism.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    8. Re:501(c)(3) Classes by jedidiah · · Score: 2

      The only problem with your rant is the fact that an entity that looks like a conventional looking company can in-fact be a non-profit enterprise. Hospitals notably fall into this category and they hardly give stuff away for free. They are some of the most notorious high way robbers on the planet.

      This is a situation where the "quacks like a duck" legal principle doesn't quite work out.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    9. Re:501(c)(3) Classes by Jason+Levine · · Score: 4, Funny

      I think I'm going to convert to Improvism. They let you make up the religious rules as you go along.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    10. Re:501(c)(3) Classes by just_another_sean · · Score: 3, Insightful

      How is that different from other religions?

      --
      Creationist Textbook Stickers Declared Unconstitutional by CowboyNeal
    11. Re:501(c)(3) Classes by krashnburn200 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In other religions THEY make up the rules as you go along,

    12. Re:501(c)(3) Classes by znrt · · Score: 2

      isn't that theyism?

    13. Re:501(c)(3) Classes by vakuona · · Score: 2

      Sure you don't want that to be GNU/LS?

  3. ah by Charliemopps · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So... a non lawyer got a request from the IRS to explain his charitable status, they decided he wasn't a charity, and now he's posting to a blog that the entire open source world is coming to an end? I think dude needs to spend more time getting a lawyer and less time posting to slashdot.

    I HATE the IRS with a passion. This stuff should be easy. But the fact of the matter is, it's not. You need legal representation if you're going to be a 501(c)

    Then we have this: "We have no plans to appeal their decision."
    ok... so what's the point of this post? If you're agreeing with them, I don't get it. If you're not agreeing with them, but just rolling over, then you deserve what you get.

    1. Re:ah by cdrudge · · Score: 2

      For the same reason I usually hate LEO with a passion. They don't write the laws, nor make laws convoluted. That's the job of the legislative branch (local, state, or federal). They just are power trippy and decide to interpret and enforce the law however they see fit ultimately letting a court decide your fate...after a long, expensive, drawn out process that is suppose to be innocent-until-proven-guilty but often is more the opposite.

    2. Re:ah by david_thornley · · Score: 2

      I've had some dealings with the IRS (mostly due to my mistakes) and have found them to be cordial and fair. (I was amused by the letter that said, yes, I was right, and here's how to appeal that decision.)

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  4. Yes, maybe... by kenh · · Score: 2

    If one of their treeâ(TM)s shade falls on a cafe table and cools the cafeâ(TM)s patrons as they enjoy their espressos, does that mean the tree-planting organization is no longer a charity?

    If the cafe, through it's donation, is able to direct where the charity puts it's trees AND the charity places the tree in a location solely for the benefit of the cafe, then that charity is (in my mind) no longer a charity, it is at least a part-time landscaping firm.

    --
    Ken
    1. Re:Yes, maybe... by darkonc · · Score: 2

      So, let's say a company (IBM) "donates" code that allows an Open Source software package support some unique (patented) feature on their hardware.

      Is that charity, or a marketing expense to help the company sell more hardware?

      Suppose that I give a group money to house homeless people so that they don't have to huddle around my air vents in the winter. Does that then make the homeless support group a commercial entity?? Charitable groups OFTEN support purposes beyond their direct purpose. That doesn't make them non-charitable... I mean how much do broadcastes make by broadcasting NCAA games?

      You're splitting hairs here -- Most people give donations to charitable orginaizations because it, in some way or form, supports their goals. Rifle manufacturers give to the NRA. Drug manufacturers give to research groups at universities (I think that some of those agreements are VERY directly commercial -- especially when there are limits on how the results of the research can be used/disemminated).,,, etc. etc, etc.

      --
      Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
  5. Re: All a simple mistake... by kenh · · Score: 3, Insightful

    A couple points - first off, there were hundreds of Patriot/Tea Party groups that applied, not just one monolithic Tea Party organization - each application was unique and individual.

    I'm not sure how many of what you refer to as 'Occupy' applications were submitted, by your use I assume it was one.

    The Occupy group that got a denial is actually years ahead (literally) of several dozen Patriot/Tea Party organizations that are still waiting YEARS LATER for a decision up or down on their application... So what? A group can not appeal a decision until it is rendered, by denying the Patriot/Tea Party groups a decision, they denied them the chance to appeal, and the appeal process would overturn baseless political denials. A delayed decision is effectively an unappealable denial - your 'Occupy' group, by getting a denial, could appeal - the Patriot/Tea Party groups can not.

    Your lone counter-example proves/dis-proves nothing.

    BTW, did your 'Occupy' group have their private donor information shared by IRS employees with other, non-governmental groups? Tea Party groups had their donor lists handed over by the IRS to Democrat groups...

    You would benefit from an expansion of your news sources to include, maybe source documents and/or actual, under-oath testimony from the people involved...

    --
    Ken
  6. Missing the Logic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I think everybody is missing the logic of the decision.

    This probably isn't concerned with whether an organization like Apache is doing charitable work. All things being equal, the IRS would undoubtedly accept that.

    But all things aren't equal, because you have an army of lawyers and MBAs who spend all day thinking about tax avoidance strategies, in an epic arms race with the IRS.

    I suspect the root of the issue is companies taking deductions on contributions to open source projects, when the projects are really simply serving and benefiting the companies "donating" the money.

    So, for example, take Android. It's possible that Google is (or could be, if they were savvy enough) taking huge deductions on Android by funding the project through an "open source" shell organization.

  7. Not a precedent by mark-t · · Score: 4, Insightful

    While this might seem to suck, I know from first-hand inquiries that it is not possible to allow a charitable organization such as a church, for example, that has a kitchen to allow their kitchen to be used even by one of its own members for any kind of commercial purpose, even if the church receives absolutely *NO* benefit from said use. Allowing it would jeopardize the church's tax-exempt status, so it's not allowed.

    Really, if you want to be a charity, then you can't allow your resources to be used by people with commercial interests. Sucks for open source organizations that want to act as charities, and I can see it being detrimental for some donations because I know that getting a tax exemption does motivate some people to donate.

    But bear in mind that if tax-exemption were really the only reason or even the primary reason why people might donate to a cause or organization that they may believe in, it's highly unlikely that something like crowdfunding would ever work, and we have plenty of evidence to show that it does.

  8. This is being blown out of proportion by techsoldaten · · Score: 2

    This is scary but ultimately a decision that needs to be appealed.

    I own a small company that works with Drupal. I am a member of the Drupal Foundation and give as generously as possible to their events.

    Similar determinations have been made by the IRS before and challenged successfully. It is important that Yorba stands up for themselves on this matter and establish the scientific and educational validity of their claim to 501 c3 status.

    There is an important point in the lifecycle of every open source project, where it goes from being a small hobby to something having an ecosystem that must be managed. It's essential that there is a way to provide fiscal support for groups springing up around the management of these projects without creating a tax burden.

    The IRS judgement pertains really seems to only include an established software project, and not one that is supported by a small community. I am not sure there is a way for them to make a determination between the two. IANAL, but I am sure this is important in distinguishing the legitimacy of 501c3 claims.

  9. Re:well that makes sense by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 3

    Hush now, if a tax law has been approved, both agreed to it. Given that they can't agree on the time of day, but have agreed to focus on 501(c), we can assume this annoys all the rich people, not just some ideological faction of them.

  10. Re:Executive Branch by disposable60 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    the current president is mega-corporate bitch;

    Unlike which of the previous several?

    --
    You're looking for quotes? See my journal.
  11. Probably not wrong by spopepro · · Score: 2

    When I was on a board that was incorporating a not for profit organization it was enlightening to hear that while 501(c)3s dominate the conversation, they aren't appropriate for most causes. Part of my understanding is that a 501(c)3 is a public, mutual benefit corporation where all assets are actually owned by the public, should push come to shove. It seems like for structure, ownership, and purpose, something like a 501(c)4 or (c)8 would be more appropriate. Of course, 501(c)3 has been baked into so many things, that there are orgs that will not donate unless you have a (c)3, even though there are other tax-exempt designations that also give you a break. Of course, IANAL, YMMV, Your state sucks and works differently, etc, etc.

    1. Re:Probably not wrong by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 2

      Part of my understanding is that a 501(c)3 is a public, mutual benefit corporation where all assets are actually owned by the public, should push come to shove.

      I'm sorry, but you're confused -- that's not correct at all. The assets of a 501(c)3 have to be transferred to another exempt organization if the organization shuts down, but they are in no way owned by the public. We had that baked into our articles of incorporation but I'm not sure if that's a requirement.

      501(c)3s can include religious corporations and public-benefit nonprofit corporations. A public corporation is something completely different, a corporation set up by a government; for example, some state universities are set up this way. A mutual-benefit corporation, which includes some co-ops, insurance companies, and other groups set up to benefit their members, cannot be a 501(c)3.

      --
      Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
      You cannot wash away blood with blood
  12. Re:They are not a charity by TemporalBeing · · Score: 2

    My read of this is that they applied as a charity, but the IRS's definition of a charity requires that you be serving a distinct, disadvantaged group of people. A quick look at the software that Yorba produces (http://yorba.org), does not lead me to believe that their software would particularly benefit any specific disadvantaged groups more than other people.

    So by the rules that the IRS is working on, it does appear that they do not qualify as a charity. And to be honest, this is a correct definition, they are not running a charity. Now there is a valid question about whether there should be a method for them to run a non-profit without being taxes, but they are not a charity.

    There are many kinds of Charitable organizations. But 501(c)3 does not necessarily mean a Charity as you describe, though it does allow you to take donations. Most of the 501(c) organizations are pretty specific in what they may serve; 501(c)3 is the exception in that it is a lot more general.
    The Wikipedia Article on 501(c) organizations is actually pretty good. Of course, you can also go directly to the IRS information too, but I find the Wikipedia article to be easier to read.

    --
    Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
  13. Re:Executive Branch by matbury · · Score: 2

    Like any tax authority anywhere in the world, the first thing that the industrialist and "owning" classes do is to minimise their own liabilities and obstruct auditing and regulation (off-shoring, tax havens, and shell companies being examples). The next thing is to increase the liabilities of any emerging competitors and possible competitors, i.e. everyone who isn't already a huge corporation and that they can't buy to add to their portfolios (FOSS means no IP portfolios to add by acquisition as Oracle found out). The ruling elites rely heavily on controlling tax legislation for their own benefit and to ensure as little competition as possible in any way they can; increasing liabilities, increasing the complexity of the tax system and tax laws, increasing the costs of ensuring compliance with tax laws (easy and cheap to a huge corporation, difficult and expensive for small organisations), etc. It really doesn't matter which administration is in office, the process will always be more or less the same: regulatory and administrative capture. The best way we have so far of preventing regulatory and administrative capture is transparent participatory democracy. The current adminsitration in the USA appears to be decidedly anti-transparent participatory democracy. I doubt the next administration, whoever gets in, will be any different. Goodbye democracy, it was nice while it lasted.

  14. Re:Executive Branch by funwithBSD · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Yes, it is called Spoliation of Evidence.

    The legal concept that if you cannot provide (or destroy) evidence that is know to exist, then that failure is proof you have something to hide.

    Since the emails were known to exist, were promised to Congress, and then later "lost" is proof that there were emails that proved the IRS was being used for political purposes.

    Add to that the unusual number and timing of visits to the White House by IRS officials tied to those emails, there is sufficient evidence to show the linkage.

    --
    Never answer an anonymous letter. - Yogi Berra
  15. Re:Executive Branch by funwithBSD · · Score: 2

    One more point: the IRS had an obligation by default to keep those emails, the fact that the were negligent in doing so points to the gross incompetence, not the criminality.

    --
    Never answer an anonymous letter. - Yogi Berra
  16. they were not trying to be a charity. by ZombieBraintrust · · Score: 3, Informative
    not quite. They wanted to be a 501 c. this includes non charities:

    501(c)(3) are charitable, religious, educational, scientific, literary, testing for public safety, fostering national or international amateur sports competition, and preventing cruelty to children or animals.

    They applied under charity, education, and science. Scientific seems the best bet. By providing source code you could say they are advancing computer science. But it is a stretch. The IRS instead saw Yorba as a provider of free stuff. Free stuff is nice but it isnt' advancing science or education. Free stuff is only charity when it is provided to a disadvantaged group of people according to the IRS. Note that environmental activism does not appear in that list. I don't think planting trees would quilify at all as a non profit. (unless it was done in a disavantaged neighborhood)

  17. Re:Rich? Ok. For the good of the society: Never. by Bodhammer · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The U.S. is becoming a country in which only the government gets what they want.
    TFTFY

    --
    "I say we take off, nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
  18. Re:Rich? Ok. For the good of the society: Never. by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The U.S. is becoming a country in which only the rich get what they want.

    The U.S. is becoming a country in which only the government gets what they want.

    And the difference is.....?

  19. Re:They've got a point. by rjstanford · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I recommend reading the excellent IRS writeup posted at http://yorba.org/docs/IRS-dete... by the way.

    One of the key phrases:

    Developing Open Source Software Is An Activity Ordinarily Carried On As An Incident To Commercial Or Industrial Operations

    In a nutshell, Yorba failed to properly differentiate themselves from a traditional for-profit company. As a for-profit software company owner, I'd say that that's a fair statement. If Yorba was actively engaging in outreach to provide free software to schools (and then incidentally released it to the public), again that would be different.

    When you apply for 501(c)3 status you're asking that the general public subsidize your business. Its not unreasonable to require a significant burden of proof before such a federal subsidy is granted.

    --
    You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
  20. Re:Rich? Ok. For the good of the society: Never. by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The U.S. is becoming a country in which only the government gets what they want.

    How about:

    The U.S. is becoming a country in which the government does what they're told by their corporate overlords.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  21. Re:Didn't use a lawyer? by pem · · Score: 2
    You don't absolutely need a lawyer, but you do have to read the docs carefully and structure your answers carefully to give them what they need. If you are incapable of this, then, yes, you should get a lawyer.

    I say this as one who just last year successfully set up a 501(c)3 for a community band, receiving a favorable determination letter, with no request for follow-up, in under 4 calendar months (which included the short government shutdown).

    Yes, there is precedent and there are already lots of community bands, but you could say the same thing about software. And it was obvious from reading all the IRS material that it would be quite easy to screw up even a community band application. If I were doing a software 501(c)3, I think I would have been even more careful to stress the things that the IRS was looking for, and might have even told the other board members that we should amend the bylaws and/or do a few other things (like hold educational events or write scholarly treatises or whatever) before submitting the application.

    FWIW, I completely disagree with all the people saying "well, duh, it should be a non-profit" because they distribute free software. A lot of for-profit companies distribute free software, too, and the IRS deals with innumerable shysters who try to turn their business into non-profits in all fields of endeavor.

    Although, as I said, you do not need to be a lawyer to get through the process, if I had received a request for more information from the IRS for more information, I would have viewed that as a huge red flag that I was on the verge of fucking it up, and would have spent a few hundred dollars on an attorney at that point to try to salvage the $400 that I had to give the IRS for the application.

    But obviously, that wasn't the mindset of the people at yorba. From the yorba foundation blog post:

    Some [questions] were odd: "Will any of your directors or employees reside at your facility [i.e. our office]?"

    The fact that they found this question odd is ample evidence that they did not try to get into the mindset of the IRS before sending the initial application, and the fact that they apparently still find it odd means that they failed to take the request for more information seriously enough and still weren't trying to get inside the IRS's thinking. Given that, it's not surprising, not news, not corporatism, not david-v-goliath, and certainly not the end of the world for free software as we know it that this particular application was rejected.