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Unintended Consequences For Traffic Safety Feature

An anonymous reader writes: Traffic engineers had a problem to solve: too many pedestrians were getting hit by cars while using the crosswalks at intersections because they didn't know when the 'WALK' sign would change. Their solution was simple: implement a countdown timer. Countless cities have now adopted these timers, but it turns out to have an undesired consequence: motor vehicle crashes are actually increasing at intersections where the countdown timer is used. Researchers think this is because pedestrians aren't the only ones who see the timers. Drivers see them too, and it provides them with information on when the light will change. Then they anticipate the change by either speeding up to beat a change to red light, or anticipating a green light in order to get through before the pedestrians can move into the road. The researchers suggest finding some way to hide the countdown from the drivers, perhaps through the use of an audio countdown that would be difficult to hear from inside a car.

20 of 579 comments (clear)

  1. Not for deaf/hard of hearing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Please don't do an audio countdown. It doesn't work for us hard of hearing people.

    1. Re:Not for deaf/hard of hearing... by nospam007 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "Please don't do an audio countdown. It doesn't work for us hard of hearing people."

      Where I live, they have audio ticking for blind people. They make a ticking noise when it's green for pedestrians.
      Although some of them seem to be made for almost-deaf blind people, since it's very loud even during daytime.

    2. Re:Not for deaf/hard of hearing... by macklin01 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I've encountered these, and I'm told they're pretty loud.

      I'm a fairly young guy (37 yo) with perfect hearing below about 1500 Hz, and almost zero hearing above 2000 Hz. To me, these loud clicks are tough to hear unless close up.

      I run into the same problem with high-pitched fire alarms (most of them), the "you left your headlights on" beep, seat belt beeps, kitchen timers, the little beep on my FasTrak transponder, etc.

      This is probably a widespread problem--we tend to lose hearing in the higher frequencies first. The solution isn't to use annoying high pitches and make them louder; the solution is to use broader frequencies or use lower pitches that more people can hear.

      Please keep this in mind when you're considering using a little chirpy piezoelectric in your next circuit project ...

      --
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  2. sound and sides by thaylin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Make angled sides on the signal to that you can only see it from like a +/- 5 degree angle, or less, and use sounds for the blind.

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    1. Re:sound and sides by Sockatume · · Score: 4, Interesting

      A lot of crossing signs in the UK have metal boxes around the lights, and horizontal shutters to boot, so you can't really see the light from anything but ground level at the crossing point. I'm guessing it's largely a light pollution and confusion-reduction measure (e.g. you don't see the light for an adjacent crossing and mistake it for your own) but it means that the hardware's already available, probably as an off the shelf component, for some styles of light.

      --
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  3. Driverless Cars by mfh · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Computers will fix this kind of thing by default.

    --
    The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
  4. OR by Murdoch5 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Drivers need to pay attention to the road, there is no excuse for hitting a pedestrian in a cross walk or for a car to hit car at a cross walk. Drivers need to grow up, pay attention and stop blaming everything but the lack of driving ability.

    1. Re:OR by michelcolman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's a great solution, I wonder why nobody else has thought of that!

    2. Re:OR by BitZtream · · Score: 5, Insightful

      While you are 100% correct, I was always taught to pay attention to my surroundings ... and that includes keeping an eye out for a ton or two object moving at a decent speed.

      One could argue that in most cases, a pedestrian paying attention could have avoided getting ran over if they'd pulled their heads out of their phones long enough to look around them.

      --
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    3. Re:OR by drerwk · · Score: 4, Interesting

      One could argue that in most cases, a pedestrian paying attention could have avoided getting ran over if they'd pulled their heads out of their phones long enough to look around them.

      SFPD claims to be keeping better stats these days but I could not find them online.
      However here is what I did find: http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/...

      All three victims this year entered the crosswalk only after pushing a button to activate several flashing beacons to alert drivers to stop. There are six lanes of traffic across Sunset with an island in the middle. Thursday's crash occurred when several drivers stopped, but a Honda CRV kept going. The driver noticed the woman too late and skidded into her, clipping her with the front bumper and spinning her to the pavement. "She said she didn't see her, " San Franicsco Police Officer Gian Tozzini told KTVU. "I don't know how she didn't see the flashers. Maybe they're just looking forward and not paying attention."

      That is three victims, one fatally injured, at a single crosswalk with flashing lights in the Sunset. The description matches what I see in my little New England town where I'll slow because I see a deer stepping into the road and the car behind me thinks they need to pass me on a two lane road so as not to slow down at all - not sure how bad I'd feel other than for the deer. A pedestrian was hit in our crosswalk same way - one car stopped, person started walking, car behind did not even slow down and passed in the next lane hitting the person in the crosswalk - actually tossing them into the front window of another car that had also stopped on the other side for the pedestrian - that car was full of kids coming home from little league.

  5. Easiest solution... by fellip_nectar · · Score: 5, Funny

    The driver should only score half points...

    --
    Worst. Signature. Ever.
  6. Audible warning by dywolf · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In atlanta at least, the countdown is already accompanied by an audible chirp.
    Intended for blind or otherwise disabled folks (except deaf folks, naturally), it also serves as a cue for regular folks as well to hurry up on some of hte larger/wider intersections.

    Really all that should be fixed is to put a bigger gap between the countdown reaching 0 and the light actually changing. My experience with signal timing (and this is my trafic engineering schooling showing through) is roughly half-half: about half the intersections I saw with the countdown change immediately, others still have the standard 4-5 second "intersection clearance delay" between the countdown ending, and the light actually changing. The clearance delay exists for obvious reasons to put a delay between one side turning red and another green. It should simply also take the crosswalk into consideration as well as a best practice.

    --
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  7. Cali... by bswarm · · Score: 5, Interesting

    In Ca, it's a ticket if a car enters a crosswalk while a pedestrian is using it, no matter if they're on the other side of the intersection or not. And the new walk signals have a visor around them so unless you're almost directly in front of it, you can't read it. They also started using audio signals, which beep and talk, for the blind.

  8. The problem with traffic engineers... by KingOfBLASH · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ...is they try to fix human behavior via engineering, but people can't really be engineered.

    For example, in my home town we had a roundabout from hell. Five highways came into a loop via offramps. Literally once a week there would be an accident and once a month it was a fatal one.

    So some brilliant traffic engineers tried to solve the problem by creating off ramps for each other highway. At highway A you could choose to offramp to highway B, C, or D. But the "offramps" used the roundabout, which now had concrete dividers about curb height. The mayor, the local press, and local government kept trumpeting how many lives this would save.

    Well, turns out the only thing more dangerous then five highways going into a giant roundabout is five highways going into a roundabout with concrete dividers to slalom around. Accidents became a daily occurrence and fatalities went up.

    As it turns out, people are stupid. Sure, if you are new to town and take the time to slow down to read the sign, and drive carefully, you can figure out where you're going. But people zip in at highway speeds, apply the brakes quickly, and try to swerve over.

    The problem is not one of engineering, but one of behavior. Modifying the behavior (via police enforcement) would be more effective then a fancy solution.

    1. Re:The problem with traffic engineers... by twdorris · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As it turns out, people are stupid.

      Truer words have never been spoken. People are stupid and you can't fix stupid. You'd think they'd weed themselves out eventually, but as it turns out, we're all people. And we're all stupid. We're just stupid at different times.

      I've nearly run into the back of someone at a stop light when they started rolling forward and then suddenly slammed on the brakes because they didn't see a car coming into the intersection. I was glancing around checking for traffic I might have been concerned with and nearly ran into the back of him because I just assumed he was going to continue rolling forward like the hundreds of others before him I had been behind at other intersections.

      A single moment of inattention and a single false assumption nearly caused a wreck. I was stupid. We're all stupid. We all need some engineered help against stupid from time to time. A sensor that detects an impending crash with something right in front of me would have helped. Lots of cars have these things now. That's an engineered solution to a moment of stupidity.

      Not everything can be fixed with engineered solutions, but we can't assume modifying behavior is a fix-all either. In fact, I would give behavior modification a far less chance of success given how random and clueless we meatbags are.

      So I vote for more engineered solutions, not less. But the solutions need to involved some human behavioral analysis as well. I mean who in their right minds couldn't have predicted that passing motorists would see these count down times and use them to speed through intersections? And who wouldn't have predicted that this would leave to an increase in accidents on average? Duh. That should have been taken into account and a different solution should have been investigated.

      All that said, I also feel like we need to define some acceptable limits here. I mean we can't go making every single intersection 100% secure. If some accidents are happening at an intersection, let's talk about the *rate* and decide if that's just an acceptable rate or not. The fact that there are accidents or that accidents are happening a little more often now than they were before is a little meaningless without numbers to compare to. I find that we have FAR, FAR too many laws and regulations trying to bring fatalities and liabilities and accidents to near zero already.

  9. Shared space by Hypotensive · · Score: 5, Interesting

    A better solution might be to remove the signals altogether. Several European towns have tried shared-space experiments where there are no signals or markings and the pedestrians and vehicle drivers have to actually watch out for each other. In all such experiments so far, traffic fatalities have dropped significantly.

  10. Re:Back to square one please by nedlohs · · Score: 4, Informative

    It has helped. Can you not read or something?

    The timers lowered the number of accidents involving pedestrians.

    So the opposite of "not helped", it worked just fine.

    However, in addition to reducing the number of pedestrian accidents it also increased the number of rear-end collisions.

  11. Countdown timers are only for pedestrians? by GbrDead · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Here in Bulgaria we have many (in fact, most) traffic lights with countdown timers for cars. Most don't even have timers for pedestrians. And these timers started to appear about ten years ago.
    I haven't heard of increased car crashes at intersections. My own observations also don't point in this direction. People are (or at least I am) using these timers as a more precise yellow light. And drivers in Bulgaria don't have to twist their necks in order to see them. Maybe this is the problem?

    Disclaimer: Bulgaria has a very high fatality rate on intercity roads. These are not related to traffic lights, though.

  12. The Solution is In Plain Sight by cloud.pt · · Score: 4, Interesting

    In some areas of Portugal we have exactly the opposite - timers applied to traffic lights instead of crosswalks. In some places we also have crosswalk timers together with traffic light timers.

    Why is this a solution? Because drivers will stop paying attention to crosswalk timers and use their own traffic light timers instead, which have a security offset of 1-3 seconds. This not only makes standing at a traffic light much more dynamic and time-efficient (drivers will know how long they have to do imprudent things like fixing a rear glass, looking at the mirror, texting or picking something out of a glove box, with a high degree of safety), but it also prevents them from prematurely hitting the gas, as most drivers feel it is unsafe to go before the timer hits 0.

    Also, the timer works in both waiting for a green and waiting for a red. Yellow lights could be fully substituted by a red and green light only with a timer which would turn yellow on the last 1-3 seconds before a red. It would also prevent a lot of ambiguity in yellow light ticketing which is very common in urban areas and is reason for dispute between veteran drivers and over zealous traffic authorities.

  13. Re:Or Maybe Self-Driving Vehicles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Then you also take away opportunities to be a gentleman. :(

    Good. I've seen drivers behaving as "gentlemen" inadvertently cause a considerable number of near misses. Not as many as asshats cause, but quite a few. The thing is, drivers should be predictable. It might appear courteous to let someone out of a side road, but it's not usual. As soon as you start behaving differently from everyone else on the road, you cause a degree of confusion. And confusion among drivers is sometimes lethal.

    So next time you're tempted to be unnecessarily courteous, don't. The driver you want to let out of the side road will get out just the same in a minute or so, and there will be reduced opportunity for confusion among other drivers around you. The most gentlemanly and considerate thing to do overall is to drive predictably, and hopefully self driving vehicles will improve that.