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Train Derailment Dumps Two 737 Fuselages Into Clark Fork River
McGruber (1417641) writes "Boeing builds its 737 airplane fuselages in a Wichita, Kansas factory. The fuselages are then shipped on top of railroad flatcars (as shown in this photograph) to Boeing's Renton, Washington plant, where assembly is completed. Unfortunately, a train carrying two fuselages to Renton derailed approximately 18 miles east of Superior, Montana. The 737s slid down a steep embankment and ended up in the Clark Fork River. That'll buff right out."
I think that's gonna void the warranty... .High*Ping*Drifter.
"When in doubt, I whip it out!"
It is safer to fly
that leaves...?
...they'd find some way to cite pilot error.
Before it cost Boing too much...(excuse the mock name) The Clark Fork River is really swift there as you can see in the picture.. Wonder if any fish will be flying first class?
The government doesn't insist that they add anything to alcohol. I can go to the store and buy as much alcohol as I want. It is even legal for me to get a massive buzz from drinking it. Problem is that a lot of people do a lot of stupid things that are costly to society while drinking alcohol. So the government does insist that if you drink something that may end up costing society some money that you help to pay for the damage through increased taxes. The only problem there is that alcohol does have a lot of industrial uses. So if you are going to use your alcohol for something other than drinking then you shouldn't have to pay taxes to cover the cost of stupid things people tend to do while drunk. No problem. If you make your alcohol impossible to drink (but still usefull for industrial activities) then you don't have to pay taxes on it. The government only insists that if you do something that costs us all more money then you should have to pay some of it back via increased alcohol tax. Seems pretty reasonable to me.
According to the article, there was alcohol involved.
How is this even news unless you live in western MT?
I suspect union sabotage since Kansas is a right to work, non-union plant.
and then they have to start over. This is airecraft parts and once damaged must be salvaged. It cannot be 'buffed out'. It must be built to aircraft standards. Unless you are from Russua or China. Here in America we do things right.
And this is news for nerds how?
Never trust a man in a blue trench coat, Never drive a car when you're dead
You're petrified of a guy who finds a tax on alcohol reasonable? And who can explain why that tax is there?
If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
Yeah. the people who assemble Boeing's planes are wage slaves. Sure.
If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
Yes, my God, they expect you to show 5 days a week and do an honest days work! Damn those 1%ers!
Could have been weapons-grade plutonium or that critter from 8mm.....
a few taps with a hammer, a little Bondo, some paint and everything will be just fine.
I think the cost will be picked up the the railway, and by insurance so no biggie for Boeing except that they will be late in delivering those planes.
Your bullshit would be more compelling if only more concrete.
A lot of argument suggests the morning after pill causes abortions. A lot of argument suggests homosexuality is a choice. A lot of argument doesn't make it so.
Are the taxes disproportionate to impact or not? Say something real.
That would be great if the government paid for treatment for alcoholics, counseling for family wrecked by alcohol use, covered medical expenses for people who drink, cover damages by drink drivers, paid for medical expenses by people hurt by someone who was drunk, etc. When the money just goes to the general fund (and rarely a small slice of it for some small aspect of the damage) while not covering any of the actual damages, then no one is paying to cover the cost of stupid drunk people, except for drunk stupid people with enough money to be payout when sued. Otherwise everyone buying alcohol, those who drink too much and those that don't, are just paying more disproportionately taxes for no good reason.
Also, as someone working in the chemical industry, some projects in industry can not use denatured alcohol, and have to go through more hoops, bureaucracy and costs to deal with this too. The only thing worse than someone saying you should be taxed because you share something in common with those doing damage, are others that argue the taxes are okay because it doesn't affect them.
...but man, you should see how flat that train squashed my penny!
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
If only one could subsist off of irony. Slashdot alone could feed the world...
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
It's "bottom line" if you're going to get cute with your expressions... Stupid.
They 'flew' right into the river, so they've seen some use - I'm sure they'll end up used for training and/or as props in a movies. The point is they still have significant value thru more than one channel.
The picture of a fuselage on a railcar and the two fuselages that fell into the river are all apple green colored
Why is that?
You are the kind of person that scares me. Not much else in this universe does.
Rational people giving rational arguments about things, yes, they tend to scare the irrational and the insane.
http://i.imgur.com/EJVBCzL.jpg
"To those who are overly cautious, everything is impossible. "
They also largely exist for the purpose of protecting the market of established distilleries as new excise licences for distilleries (as opposed to breweries and wineries) are difficult or impossible to come by in most places with excise law.
I would find excise laws far less objectionable if licenses were available to anyone who applied for one. I have personally applied for and been denied an excise license for a distillery, so I have direct experience that licensing is a form of racketeering, the kind of thing that would be illegal if applied to any other product.
The only thing worse than someone saying you should be taxed because you share something in common with those doing damage, are others that argue the taxes are okay because it doesn't affect them.
Hear here. Anyone arguing that excise law doesn't affect them because they don't drink is an idiot. The adminstrative overhead of dealing with pure alcohol in chemical processes is significant, and dry "natured" alcohol is used in so many chemical and manufacturing processes that it is certainly impossible that you don't use some product that has been made more expensive by excise control.
That means EVERYONE is a victim of excise law, whether they realise it or not.
crazy clown airlines will take them.
what the fuck does that have to do with this story?
To lower the number of injuries per crash.
You are the kind of person that scares me. Not much else in this universe does.
Rational people giving rational arguments about things, yes, they tend to scare the irrational and the insane.
Peoples post angry stuff over the intertubes. like death treats and bulling that push teens to suicide. These are bad things. Maybe you should pay the Internet posting taxes for all the bad things peoples do when they post over the internets.
PROTIP; There was nothing rational about the OP. It was just a misguided rant against alcohol and failure to understand alcohol taxation scheme.
Inappropriate title - I've lived in a lot of countries around the world and AFAICR they all had exactly the same system.
Two of them? Great would make an awesome houseboat. I wonder if you they would sell them for scrape.
Boeing still builds the 737...
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
I used to get a lot of industrial ethanol when my work required it. Additives would have ruined it's use in that situation, but the answer was that I had to have a permit before I could buy a drum of the stuff. It was very cheap, not a lot more than petrol/gasoline per litre. There's more expensive stuff with a higher water content - it's very hard to distill ethanol without getting some water condensing with it.
Which is why they stopped putting methanol in to discourage drinking some time before grandpa was a boy. The name "methlyated spirits" stuck without the methanol.
To get that methanol buzz and blindness and/or death you have to go to places like Bali where the locals make spirits for tourists without knowing or caring how to do it properly.
Because traditionally the government was the regulator AND the only place you could buy it from in most cases.
You don't want people buying 99% proof rubbing alcohol at the drug store and then quaffing it in the store either. That's why we hear about homeless, drunks, and natives drinking cough syrup and mouth wash, because it's easier to steal.
The real solution to this is to sell the killer vodkas behind the counter, just like the precursors to meth. Anything out on the shelf has to be denatured so it's explicitly unusable as an intoxicant.
Its clearly not news, because it happens on a regular basis it seems.
I think you meant to say 'lower water content'. Alcohol is an azeotrope and is hard to get past 95% purity. Once you do, and you open it to air, poof, the water gets absorbed into the alcohol and you're back where you started from. Pretty expensive stuff.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
A plane model that flew first in 1967 and an accident on a transportation system that's almost 2 centuries old.
I fail to see the nerd angle.
Can anybody enlighten me?
De Plane, De PLane
I am the unwilling control for my Origin.
Sounds like gas for motorcycles, climbing gear, chutes for skydiving, bicycles, and all sorts of other stuff should be much more expensive.
Where does the money from the taxes go? Why? Publish a full audit. Make sure it is available to all voters in an easy to review format soon before all elections.
> Boeing builds its 737 airplane fuselages in a Wichita, Kansas factory.
737 _airplane_ fuselages. Because they might have been Oscar Mayer Wienermobile fuselages?
A Wichita, Kansas _factory_. Because they might be building them in a Wichita, Kansas hair salon.
Me? I'd have written "Boeing builds its 737 fuselages in Wichita, Kansas." But hey, what do I know.
Why in the fucking fuck would you fucking construct part of the fucking plane in fucking Kansas, then the rest in fucking Washington?
Put the whole damn plant in one damn place and save some goddamn money, goddamnit.
So, that is where baby planes come from, not the stork.
Esra Erimez
I love how on Slashdot how threads frequently go, Poster A:"Well, this is true (with not citations)" Poster B: "No, that is wrong (with no citations)." Poster C: "No, B is wrong because they provide no citations (still no citations for A or C)". No one is providing concrete numbers or citations. You chew someone out for not being concrete, but then turn around and still are no concrete yourself, making vague comparisons because the word "argument" gets used in a lot of places that have no relevance to the issue. I would assume that most people who actually cared about the subject would take a quick Google search because it is a heavily researched topic.
But of course, since people around here can't look things up for themselves, and assuming that the posts they like are right without proof but posts they don't like must be wrong without proof... you can try looking at studies like this one and compare it to totals of alcohol tax revenues here. Now of course the revenue from tax is not the total cost, because there is a lot of money spent on enforcing laws, economic impact on businesses dealing with the laws, and people finding ways around the laws (even legal ones like driving to a different location, with impact on local business). But the result is that throughout the US $4 billion gets collected in alcohol taxes in the 90s, when estimates of cost impact show the vast majority of impact is on non-government individuals who do not get help from the government with the collected taxes. And the vast majority of those impacts (71% in the US study cited in the study) are from lost work because people miss work or become injured in a way that doesn't contribute to work, or that government gets less tax revenue when someone dies. The actual direct impact to government programs is estimated at under a billion dollars. And that is using numbers that are said to be over-estimated when looking at what happens when people actually stop drinking.
And this still doesn't address the issue that most of the taxes are collected from people not contributing to the problem, with a quarter if the people causing half the problems (e.g. a citation, more give numbers all over the place on this, so exact numbers are not available, but agree that most damage done by small portion). Some of this should be obvious considering how many people drink but do not drink and drive, have liver damage, etc. Nor does do the numbers change that the government isn't applying the money in a way to stop damage. If the societal damage were taken serious, there would be a lot more research and implementation of programs to stop people from drinking too much, and actually fixing problems... but that is not how government works except the most obvious cause-effect problems.
I thought Slashdot was full of people who were at least skeptical of taxation and arguments that come from politicians with ulterior motives. Instead, it looks like mods love those paraphrasing the exact argument politicians use for increasing taxes while not actually following through on any of the benefits they promise, and mods dislike anyone who questions what politicians say on their pet issue.
"Are the taxes disproportionate to impact or not?"
Yes, they are. They should be higher and laws should be stiffer, speaking as a person that has been in two drunk driving accidents, dead twice in the same day from the first one and now suffering from lumbosacral arthritis from the second one.
I'm a (barely) walking wreck.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
Acetaminophen - also known as paracetamol - is a pain killer! It's sometimes combined with other painkillers, such as aspirin, codeine or ibuprofen, to get a more effective combination, but it's quite effective on its own.
That would be great if the government paid for treatment for alcoholics, counseling for family wrecked by alcohol use, covered medical expenses for people who drink, cover damages by drink drivers, paid for medical expenses by people hurt by someone who was drunk, etc
That's a non-sequitur. The cost is born by society. Government is the name of the body that we elect to represent society. If taxing an activity reduces it, which, in turn, reduces a cost that is born by society, then the government has done its job. The point of such taxation is to reintroduce externalities into the costs, so that the market will correctly adjust.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Good link there too.
Some time in the late 1800s an enterprising German distillery was selling schnapps with greater than 95% alcohol. They did it by adding benzene to allow more water to be driven off, which worked but made it something of a poison.
Maybe you should read labels more closely. The law limits specific formulas for different uses, and many of them involve methanol, while other additives can cause more problems for some uses.
The mods love reasoned discourse. There might very well be a good argument that's worth modding up from your side, but reasoned discourse isn't your strong suit. That being said, I think your best course of action is to blame it on an apparent invasion of liberal shills that's ruining the once great slashdot comments section.
These fuselages are pre-wrecked so the planes that make should fly forever safely.
According to a photographer that hiked into the scene and posted his photographs, there were 6 (six) 737 fuselages on the train and 5 of those are heavily damaged:
Trainorders.com - Birds in the Water!!!!
The photographer also thinks this derailment will really screw up Boeing's 737 production:
The 737 bodies did remain firmly attached to the flatcars for the most part. The only one to show signs of weakness in mounting was the one with the huge crack around the middle. What is going to hurt Boeing is not only having 6 missing aircraft, but losing the 6 fuselage carrier car sets. I imagine both BNSF and Boeing want those cars sent to the repair shop ASAP!
Oh, maybe to prevent it from being stolen to be used for those otherwise legitimate purposes.
And a lot of saying it is so does not make it so.
Perhaps you should use more effective means when trying to kill yourself. You don't seem to be having much success with getting drunk and crashing your car. ;)
That being said, I think your best course of action is to blame it on an apparent invasion of liberal shills that's ruining the once great slashdot comments section.
This isn't a party specific issue, but one of those cheap tricks that bad politicians on both sides love to use to further industries in their district that pay them well while making it look like they care about societal problems.
Why do people play these pointless mass debate games with links that are not what the poster pretends they are? Is there that much of an ego boost in making people look like they are wrong that there's a need to fake it? If so, I made a bad typo on another thread where I mixed up "more" with "less" - if you want to kick this puppy go jump on that instead of doing it with something made up and misdirection to try to make it look real.
Which are restricted so more difficult to obtain than any other form of alcohol.
I take it back - in some backward countries where people even argue for their right to not wear seatbelts it is perfectly acceptable to poison homeless alcoholics with dangerous shit like that. Other places stopped putting it in back when Grandpa was a boy because it was killing off too many people in the 1930s depression.
To get that methanol buzz and blindness and/or death you have to go to places like Bali where the locals make spirits for tourists without knowing or caring how to do it properly.
Crazy places like the UK where the law updated as recent as 2005 still requires generic denatured alcohol be 90% ethanol, 9.5% wood naphtha (which itself must be 72% methanol), and a small amount of mineral naphtha, pyridine, and dye.
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