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Radical Dual Tilting Blade Helicopter Design Targets Speeds of Over 270mph

Zothecula writes: As one of the contenders in the race to win a $100 billion contract from the U.S. government for the next generation of attack helicopter in the Army's Joint Multi-Role Technology Demonstrator (JMR-TD) program, AVX Aircraft Company has conceived a futuristic machine kitted out with coaxial rotors, ducted fans and a retractable undercarriage that could hit speeds of over 270 mph (435 km/h).

20 of 103 comments (clear)

  1. To be stolen, and hidden in the desert by Gothmolly · · Score: 5, Funny

    And piloted by a young rebel, with a cranky old sidekick as a navigator. They should make this into a TV show.

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    1. Re: To be stolen, and hidden in the desert by slinches · · Score: 5, Funny

      It's a whoosh up until about Mach 0.9-0.95. After that, it's a boom.

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  2. One hundred *billion* dollars? by Dynamoo · · Score: 2

    One hundred *billion* dollars? Enough to buy about 5000 Apache attack helicopters (I would not like to be on the wrong end of those). Why do I think this program will end up with a tiny, tiny fraction of that?

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    1. Re:One hundred *billion* dollars? by aaron4801 · · Score: 2

      Are you sure you read the comment correctly? (Am I?) I believe he was saying that the $100b will buy a tiny fraction of the 5000 helicopters that could be purchased if they spent it on the existing platform, not that the cost will be a tiny fraction of the budget.

    2. Re:One hundred *billion* dollars? by CrankyFool · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The Comanche program was cancelled after only $7B was spent in development, and before they started mass production. Is $7B a lot of money? Yes. But it's not $100B.

    3. Re:One hundred *billion* dollars? by CrankyFool · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually, it's like $12.74B in 2014, at least according to the inflation calculator at http://www.bls.gov/data/inflat... .

      Christ, folks. It's numbers. It should be easy to validate the numbers you use before you randomly vomit them on the interwebz.

    4. Re:One hundred *billion* dollars? by beltsbear · · Score: 2

      500 helicopters that are not quite as good as the cheaper ones we already had.

    5. Re:One hundred *billion* dollars? by felrom · · Score: 2

      The Army doesn't want Apaches. They want a medium lift technology demonstrator that will replace their Blackhawk fleet while providing much more capability by exploring new vertical lift technologies. Then they'll run separate competitions to scale the technology up and down in size to replace their Apaches, Little Birds, and Chinooks.

    6. Re:One hundred *billion* dollars? by rtb61 · · Score: 2

      Large hybrid titling ducted rotor quadcopters with electric drives and inboard turbine generators. Don't they already make model aircraft that look much like that and perform pretty well. Just need to up scale it. Now if they want to save money, which really doesn't seem to be the objective. They need to separate out the airframe from everything else. Don't design a military aircraft, design an agile high speed civilian aircraft capable of carrying the final design load, of personnel, munitions and armour. The advantage you have something to directly sell into civilian market to save money. The body shape can then vary according to demand. That research of course has no impact on the remaining research which covers target acquisition and elimination. Survivability is quite simply tied to how much spare mass the design can carry, the more spare mass, the more you can convert that into armour.

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  3. Eurocopter / Airbus X3 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    While a simpler and more conservative design, a helicopter like this already exists: The Eurocopter (now Airbus) X3.

    Not yet in production but several functioning machines that already reached speeds of 472 km/h.
    Of course this is a civillian design, not military, and has far less transport capacity, but the technology is working already. This is beyond prototype stage and ramped up for commercial prodcution right now.

    Eurocopter also planned to compete in the FVL program, but since the US would have claimed IP in this case, a civilian production would not have been possible without paying licence fees to the US (despite the US not contributing any development ressources or IP).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    1. Re:Eurocopter / Airbus X3 by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 5, Funny

      While a simpler and more conservative design, a helicopter like this already exists: The Eurocopter (now Airbus) X3.

      Not yet in production but several functioning machines that already reached speeds of 472 km/h.

      Yeah, but we need one that travels in miles per hour.

  4. redundant aircraft by jcgam69 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The V-22 Osprey performs a similar role for the Navy/Marine Corps. Why develop a new platform that will cost billions of dollars and many years of research and testing? The V-22 can be adapted to this new role much faster and for a lot less.

    1. Re:redundant aircraft by anolisporcatus · · Score: 2

      Hopefully this one wont randomly crash and kill everyone. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A...

    2. Re:redundant aircraft by fnj · · Score: 2

      Well, it is SUPPOSED to cost half as much as an Osprey, but we know how that goes (cough, F-22, F-35). There will be a long development period first; plenty of time for things to go wrong. Or we could - wait for it - 1443 Ospreys right now with no development wait and risk for $100 billion ($69.3 million flyaway cost per Osprey as of FY 2012).

      No way in hell will this thing have more range than an Osprey, and "agility" is unquantified feel-good. And the Osprey's real speed is faster than even the claimed speed of this thing. And it would be one less model to lavish your precious maintenance labor on.

      I don't know which scheme would end up preferable if ALL factors were considered, but I do know they DO need to weigh ALL factors. So far all I see in the program is a bunch of gee-whiz gung ho attitude.

    3. Re:redundant aircraft by stockard · · Score: 2

      There are 3 other entries in this competition: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Vertical_Lift#Competitors, two of which are tiltrotors.

      Bell Helicopter's entry into this competition is more of an incremental upgrade to their V-22 tiltrotor technology: http://bellv280.com/ The Army also wants something smaller than the V-22 (the V280 will end up being probably 1/3 to 1/2 the size) and it will presumably be correspondingly cheaper per aircraft. (Of course with the way these programs usually turn out, who knows how much budget overrun it'll see...)

      Karem Aircraft is also proposing a tiltrotor, and is partnering with Lockheed, though I don't think either has experience with tiltrotors.

      Sikorsky and Boeing teamed up to build an upgraded version of the X2.

      Interestingly, AVX also has a lot of former V-22 engineers and management working for them, so they may have had their reasons for opting against a tiltrotor arrangement, such as a simpler drive and control system.

      Personally though, I'd bet that either the Bell or Sikorsky/Boeing proposal will get selected, simply because they've had experience with comparable aircraft, which will give them a better handle on the estimated performance, rather than just making paper helicopters. They're also the big names in US military rotorcraft, and currently have the facilities to ramp up to that kind of production (4000 helicopters is a helluva lot of aircraft).

  5. And it exists too! by honestmonkey · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Not! This is a figment in AVX's collective mind. The real helicopter doesn't move at all except for CGI on a computer monitor. Not to say they couldn't build it but a bit premature to say much about it. "It could reach speeds of a billion light-years per fortnight." Hey, maybe it'll do the Kessel run in 12 parsecs.

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  6. Works well on Russian helicopters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The Kamov series have co-axial rotors. The Ka-52 can already hit 240+mph without any ducted fans, and there is also improved manoeuvrability. Tail rotors just waste energy from the engines.

  7. Re:X-2 and X-3 by budgenator · · Score: 2

    There's going 300MPH and there's going 275MPH with a four man crew and 14 grunts onboard, a Bugatti Veyron can go 254MPH but you can't tow a boat with it.

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  8. Re:not that surprising. by wagnerrp · · Score: 2

    More importantly, a pair of counter-rotating rotors gets around the pesky roll issue caused by rotor stall on the retreating side at high speed. The rotor may still stall, but it doesn't matter nearly as much since you're still balanced.

  9. Re:Dual or quadricopters by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 2

    Yeah. Quadcopters are far less efficient than single-rotor aircraft, and multicopters (hexa, octa) are even less efficient.

    The reason people go to hexas and octas is that scaling a quadcopter up to the payload sizes of some of the octas/hexas starts causing issues with blade inertia - an octacopter is more stable.

    The main reason quadcopters are doing so well for small aircraft is that at that size class, the mechanical complexity (tail rotor with transmission and collective pitch, plus collective and cyclic pitch control for the main rotor) of a single rotor or dual-rotor aircraft adds a LOT of cost. (The only flight controls of quadcopters are motor speed, with a few exceptions of quads with collective pitch which is still FAR simpler than cyclic pitch control) Once you get to a fullsize helo - it turns out that the quadcopter approach becomes more expensive than a single-rotor AND it's far less efficient.

    Kind of similar to how LEDs dominated the flashlight industry for years but only recently became feasible for residential/commercial lighting - incandescent bulbs suffer significantly reduced efficiency and bulb lifetime when scaled down to flashlight sizes.

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