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Microsoft's Missed Opportunities: Memo From 1997

New submitter gthuang88 (3752041) writes In the 1990s, Microsoft was in position to own the software and devices market. Here is Nathan Myhrvold's previously unpublished 1997 memo on expanding Microsoft Research to tackle problems in software testing, operating systems, artificial intelligence, and applications. Those fields would become crucial in the company's competition with Google, Apple, Amazon, and Oracle. But research didn't do enough to make the company broaden its businesses. While Microsoft Research was originally founded to ensure the company's future, the organization only mapped out some possible futures. And now Microsoft is undergoing the biggest restructuring in its history. At least F# and LINQ saw the light of day.

40 of 161 comments (clear)

  1. Too long by Dan+East · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That memo is waaaay too long. No wonder none of that stuff happened - no one read past the first page and a half.

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    Better known as 318230.
    1. Re:Too long by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Can you sum it up for me?
      Okay, now can you put it in layman's terms?
      Okay, now tell it to me like I'm a ten year old.
      Okay, tell it to me like I'm a five year old.
      Okay, now tell it to me like I'm a five year old who drank a Big Gulp and you don't want to mop the floor.

    2. Re:Too long by vandelais · · Score: 5, Funny

      Microsoft ought to have presented screens showing a "house", with "rooms" that the user could go to containing familiar objects corresponding to computer applications – for instance, a desk with pen and paper, a checkbook, and other items. Clicking on the pen and paper would open the word processor, and so forth.

      --
      Game: Player 'Donald J Trump' now has AI skill level 'experimental'.
    3. Re:Too long by rmdingler · · Score: 2

      In order to justify a budget increase of 300%+, the head of Microsoft Research had to write a really long essay beginning with business buzzwords (like embark, unprecedented, and endeavor) and ending with some justifications for his recommendations.

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

    4. Re: Too long by HagbardCeline6909 · · Score: 2

      Microsoft Bob!

    5. Re: Too long by alen · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Microsoft was an isp, had an internet portal and owned expedia before google existed

    6. Re: Too long by Maxwell · · Score: 4, Informative

      Worse than that: They were the #1 dial up ISP (behind AOL) were the #1 DSL ISP (with MSN premium, bundled with verizon, bell etc.). they had the #1 travel site, #1 encyclopedia site, and #1 chat tool all at the same time circa 2000.

      The only thing they didn't do was sell ads...

    7. Re: Too long by Blaskowicz · · Score: 2

      I miss MSN, the chat client/protocol. It's what everyone called it in my country, the other "MSN" stuff (later "Windows Live") we tended to not care about.. What was important is that everyone was on MSN Messenger - and we were free to use other clients like Trillian and aMSN and maybe GAIM ; just like everyone is on F...book now. We could just chat with people that were there, real name very optional, no need to go to a website and I don't think there were ads (just use a 3rd party client anyway).

      Hell, I remember when I had gotten .wmv streaming to always work reliably! (around when I got to use ffdshow to be able to play everything without hunting for codecs). Full screen web video on a 500MHz computer, later flash video and youtube required a 2GHz computer to do the same. (HTML5 is even worse unless you have a smartphone or a Windows PC with recent enough graphics card, I guess)

      In these days I hated Microsoft and was worried about the upcoming Palladium dystopia (which hasn't worked out on PC : Trusted Platform Module is optional and thus not included in consumer mobos, and being able to disable Secure Boot is mandatory). But I mourn the loss of MSN chat and what replaced it is worse. I won't become a facebook slave, thanks. (btw nobody used AIM or ICQ that I know of). I thought of getting a jabber/XMPP account but don't exactly know where to get one and how the stuff works exactly, so I know I'll never get other people to join in.

    8. Re:Too long by ozmanjusri · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No wonder none of that stuff happened - no one read past the first page and a half.

      No. Just no. That's pure and slick as goose fat spin control. Businesses simply don't work that way.

      That stuff didn't happen because Microsoft decided to spend the next decade and a half focused on embracing, extending and extinguishing or just f***ing killing and just f***ing burying their competitors instead of making good products.

      With toxic corporate citizenship at their heart, they stacked standards committees instead of making a better Office product. When online security and malware became a problem, instead of improving and securing their colander-like OS they funded a feral and failing software company to attack a community-built competitor. When that failed, they wielded 235 patents as a FUD-bludgeon, and sold more to a 3rd party patent troll. When it became clear they couldn't compete in the mobile space, they used some questionable patents to extort money from manufacturers using a competing OS. Their customers suffered high costs and poor products because, whenever possible, they chose to litigate instead of innovate.

      That's why they now have 14% market share and are laying off thousands of workers. As soon as there were viable alternatives, ex-Microsoft customers fled to them in droves.

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    9. Re:Too long by Dishevel · · Score: 4, Informative
      You forgot to have it told to you in a car analogy.

      You must be new here.

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    10. Re: Too long by Dishevel · · Score: 2

      Microsoft Bob!

      We don't speak of Bob here.

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    11. Re:Too long by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      In order to justify a budget increase of 300%+, the head of Microsoft Research had to write a really long essay beginning with business buzzwords (like embark, unprecedented, and endeavor) and ending with some justifications for his recommendations.

      Yep, Myhrvold's memos were always substantial, they often defined the future of the company. This is from a New Yorker article in 1997.

      Reading the memos chronologically, one can look at some of the business decisions that Microsoft faced during the years it grew to a nearly nine-billion-dollar giant that in 1996 earned two billion one hundred and ninety-five million dollars. It’s easier to understand the company’s path to success: a rare marriage of technical and business prowess.

      Myhrvold's role was essentially to be the futurist at Microsoft. He was their forward thinker and gave them the geeky excitement that allowed them to make many of the right choices throughout the '80s and '90s. Ignoring him and concentrating instead of the business and litigation-driven path resulted in the gradual slide to the barely relevant, spiteful and fading dinosaur, shedding workers and market share we're saddled with today.

      Imagine instead if they'd listened to him and worked towards this vision:

      Myhrvold then turned to what he called “the truly personal computer—something which has the size and weight appropriate to be carried with you at all times.” This wireless “digital wallet,” as he called it, would allow anyone to communicate, untethered to a wire, by voice, video, fax, E-mail, or pager. The device would be a clock, an alarm, a schedule manager, a notepad, an archive of phone numbers and records, and a library of music and books. The digital signature produced by this wallet would have a personal I.D. for security, and could replace cash, credit cards, checks, and keys. He believed that the obstacles were economic and human, not technological. “The cost will not be very high—it is pretty easy to imagine a total cost of manufacture in the range of $100 to $250 on introduction, which means $400 to $1000 retail price,” he wrote. He guessed that keyboards would be superseded by devices capable of recognizing handwriting.

      http://www.newyorker.com/archi...

      OP is saying 22 pages is too long a memo to bet the company on, and gets modded insightful? Why?

    12. Re:Too long by Dogtanian · · Score: 2

      Myhrvold's role was essentially to be the futurist at Microsoft. He was their forward thinker and gave them the geeky excitement that allowed them to make many of the right choices throughout the '80s and '90s. Ignoring him and concentrating instead of the business and litigation-driven path resulted in the gradual slide to the barely relevant, spiteful and fading dinosaur, shedding workers and market share we're saddled with today.

      I'm at work, so haven't had the time to properly read the articles et al. However, it's been known for years that MS *have* been doing a lot of serious research with talented people- the research they needed to avoid the position they're now in. The problem is that the vast majority never made its way out for short-term business and political reasons, and they're reaping that failure now. Here's a post I originally made in early 2012 in turn referencing someone else's *very* informative comment (itself dating back to 2010):-

      "It's been commented on for *years* that Microsoft have labs stuffed full of very clever and innovative people, yet still seem to end up churning out mediocre, uninspiring crap. One explanation is that internal politics are responsible- this article comment from someone who claims to have worked at Microsoft (click link for full version) is informative:-

      There have been many instances at Microsoft where genuine innovations have sat on the shelf or been half-heartedly brought to market [.. In 2002 MS had..] a prototype smartphone that had (essentially) all the useability features of an iPhone, including a trick interface, accelerometer and multi-touch. It was cobbled together and not very pretty, but as a proof of concept, it worked. Yet it never saw the light of day. Why?

      Brass’s tablet project was well advanced in the labs too, but somehow never got the traction it deserved internally. [..]

      Microsoft has a Darwinian internal structure. Each business unit has to fight for scarce resources, - they compete with each other and only the strong survive. Succeeding in that environment involves more than just having a good (or even great) product or project. Unless you’re Office or Windows, you have to build symbiotic relationships with other business units (preferably the big guys) just to ensure your survival. You have to make their success (at least partially) dependent on yours

      [..Secondly..] in its youth, Microsoft could afford to hire only the best and the brightest. Smart people are flexible and innovative in their approach and this reflects in the company’s culture. As the enormous growth of the late 90s took hold, we couldn’t keep up with the demand for more employees and as a consequence, the quality bar dropped. We started employing people who were merely good, not outstanding. These new people were less flexible, less able to handle organisational ambiguity and less passionate about what they were doing. They started to build bureaucracy as a safety-net and as a structure in which they were comfortable operating. Goodbye to dynamic decision-making and rapid market responses.

      Anyway, bottom line; the "smart" people starting work there know (or must be really, *really* blinkered not to know) of this reputation, so why are they working there? Silly money?

      I'll grant that they came up with Kinect recently, which was pretty innovative (albeit as a response to the Wii controller) and smacked of research turned into a workable product. But that was pretty recent (so couldn't have inspired any but the newes

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    13. Re:Too long by RabidReindeer · · Score: 2

      Can you sum it up for me?
      Okay, now can you put it in layman's terms?
      Okay, now tell it to me like I'm a ten year old.
      Okay, tell it to me like I'm a five year old.
      Okay, now tell it to me like I'm a five year old who drank a Big Gulp and you don't want to mop the floor.

      Okay, now tell it to my like I'm the CEO.

  2. Hindsight's twenty-twenty by rmdingler · · Score: 5, Interesting
    It is so difficult to stay on top in any field, let alone atop a technology that changes virtually overnight, that even Microsoft's relatively short run as apex predator was commendable.

    You can make a hundred correct predictions in a row as to where the market is heading, and then whiff on two, and an apple or a google gain a foothold.

    It's not rocket science... it's way harder than that.

    --
    Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

    Ernest Hemingway

    1. Re:Hindsight's twenty-twenty by plover · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Microsoft has done some really brilliant things as of late. They've wholeheartedly adopted automated testing for everything. I don't know if they have any product teams that aren't Agile, or aren't doing test driven development. I recently asked a product manager about his product's defect backlog, and he shot me with a cold stare: "We don't have any known defects in our product. As soon as a bug report arrives, the entire team drops what they're doing, and within 15 minutes a developer is working on repro'ing it, and it's fixed within a day. These are very rare occurrences." This was for a million line shrink-wrapped product.

      Although it's taking them a long time to turn their teams around, Microsoft finally knows how to engineer code right, and they are quite willing to share with anyone willing to listen. But too many of their clients don't listen, too many of their vendors and suppliers don't listen (driver bugs, etc), too many of their own internal teams are still dragging legacy code bases forward, and they still have a long history of bugs that we all remember. Another problem they have is economic: their primary competition is their old products, like Office 2007, which are good enough for most businesses and students. They really want to get everyone on their Azure cloud, using Office365, live, OneCloud, and to rent computing resources from them, and that's driving a lot of their products in an unnatural direction for their consumers.

      Their marketing people haven't helped. Windows RT? Really, they had to emulate Apple's walled garden? The closed iOS ecosystem is about the worst thing Apple ever did to their customers, The Apple tax sucks 30% from every dollar spent on the platform, and there's virtually no escape. And because we all know it sucks, we won't willingly jump into it again - so Microsoft loses even more.

      Their forays into other platforms have been abysmal: Ford's SYNC is a crime against drivers. They bought a failing phone company for their hardware, turned out walled garden phones, and nobody showed up. Their previous attempts at embedded systems make people WinCE. And because they start everything out as closed source, and try to contain their own stuff, they see every product as a battle entering competition to the death, instead of an opportunity to cooperate. That got them a long way, and made them a lot of money, but now there are good alternatives, and nobody gives a damn anymore. The stuff they're producing now will all be too much, but way too late.

      --
      John
    2. Re:Hindsight's twenty-twenty by MikeBabcock · · Score: 2

      Its only brilliant if you do something nobody else has already done. Imitating success is not brilliant, its obvious.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    3. Re:Hindsight's twenty-twenty by aybiss · · Score: 2

      I'm not sure if this post was sarcastic... but just in case it wasn't: Microsoft have adopted automated testing? Wow! What's next, bug tracking?

      --
      It's OK Bender, there's no such thing as 2.
    4. Re:Hindsight's twenty-twenty by inasity_rules · · Score: 2

      He lost me at 'Agile'.

      --
      I have determined that my sig is indeterminate.
    5. Re:Hindsight's twenty-twenty by gtall · · Score: 2

      Sooo... they know how to do software development now that they've adopted Agile. I think rather that Agile has more or less codified how they've always done software development, and with it, Agile's sins. The most egregious is that your product will look like a dirty snowball that, if it is of decent size, no one will understand.

      And if they are jerking developers off the project to address every single bug as it comes in, they've already shot themselves in the foot. No defect backlog means no bug backlog. Reallyy? how are they tracking those things? How do they know which bugs are related to other bugs? How do they know which bugs got fixed?

      My experience with Agile is only a single point, others may have other points. However, my impression is that it was simply a tool management could use to micro-manage a project and jerk the developers around due to whatever wind was tussling their coif that week.

  3. Hindsight's twenty-twenty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Rocket science needs complex math. market prediction needs a functioning crystal ball.

  4. Re:What about git? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Look, a modern software company must do 4 things:

    1) Employ hipsters.

    2) Use Git and GitHub.

    3) Use Ruby on Rails when creating any sort of software.

    4) Use MongoDB when storing any sort of data.

    Microsoft may do part of 2), but I don't think they do 1), and I don't think they do 3), and I don't think they do 4).

    If a company doesn't do those 4 things, then they're old hat. They're Web 1.0. They're SQL. They aren't cool. They aren't stylish. They can't scale without bound. They're a company that's irrelevant in this modern world of wearable Internet. They just aren't chaz.

  5. Microsoft "At Home" lab is a bust by derinax · · Score: 3, Interesting

    In the late nineties and into the last decade Microsoft just dumped too much time and money on their vision of a hyper-connected home. They dumped so much research money into building out test spaces and building out test devices, they failed to realize that people don't want an intelligent dryer and an intelligent toaster and an intelligent melon baller. The reality is whatever fancy device you own that has any kind of transistor in it, much less a CPU-- a phone, a tablet, a TV-- you're having to fuss with it. Constantly. And the same is/was always true for their "Microsoft At Home" vision. And yes, these things were connected-- but only to each other.

    That, and the fact that Microsoft has always misread the Internet, from coming to TCP/IP late, to ignoring the vital interoperability that cloud services demand. It's always been about the toys with them. Toys that run Windows. Ugh.

    Gratefully, only a few of these monstrous things ever saw the light of day beyond the lab.

    1. Re:Microsoft "At Home" lab is a bust by Fubari · · Score: 2
      Does Anyone Want Any Toast? - Red Dwarf - BBC

      people don't want an intelligent dryer and an intelligent toaster

    2. Re:Microsoft "At Home" lab is a bust by BigDish · · Score: 2

      Disagreed - I DO want an intelligent dryer. That's not to say I want a heavy-weight OS or the ability to browse the internet on it, but my dryer is in my basement and I can't hear the buzzer. I DO want my smartphone to notify me when the cycle is done so I can go get the clothes. Nerd-things, like being able to see current temp/humidity inside would be a bonus, but just to know when it's done would be a huge selling point.

      Disclaimer: I haven't shopped for a dryer in a few years - perhaps this exists now. It didn't when I last looked.

    3. Re:Microsoft "At Home" lab is a bust by LMariachi · · Score: 2

      Now that you mention it, I do want an intelligent melon baller.

    4. Re:Microsoft "At Home" lab is a bust by DerekLyons · · Score: 5, Informative

      The reality is whatever fancy device you own that has any kind of transistor in it, much less a CPU-- a phone, a tablet, a TV-- you're having to fuss with it. Constantly.

      Horseshit. My printer has a CPU in it, and in three years I've never had to do anything but turn in on. (I rely on the auto off feature.) Ditto for the CPU's in my and my wife's cars. Or in our GPSr's (a handheld and two dashboard navigation systems). Or in our washer and dryer. Or in our home entertainment system (TV, Tivo, HDMI switch, Roku, Blu-Ray player). Or in our microwave. Or... we pretty much haven't had to "mess with" any of the dozens of the CPU's in our possession. (And most of what little "messing with" we've had to do has been with the phone and desktop, and the "messing with" has been minimal... hit "update" and walk away for bit.) I don't know what planet you live on, but here on Earth in 2014, consumer grade devices don't generally require user intervention.

    5. Re:Microsoft "At Home" lab is a bust by r_a_trip · · Score: 2

      It's a solution in search of a problem

      Which is what people have probably said about wheels, boats, bows, guns, castles, astronomy, gaslight, electricity, self driving carriages, photo cameras, computers, dishwashers, dryers, mobile phones, the Internet, etc.

      --
      # touch universe # chmod +rwx universe # ./universe
  6. Re:Maybe MSFT was trying to learn from Xerox by Solandri · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Maybe MSFT was trying to learn from Xerox, Kodak, and other companies that pioneered technologies and then failed to follow through.

    While Xerox deserves full blame for missing opportunities (the mouse, GUI, ethernet, and laser printer were all invented there), Kodak does not. They were always on the forefront of digital imaging. They built the first digital camera in the 1970s, and had a line of digital SLRs in the early 1990s. They knew exactly where the industry was heading, and in fact did most of the early R&D to get us there. The only reason they managed to hang around as long as they did was because they owned most of the patents on digital imaging and were collecting massive royalties.

    What led to Kodak's downfall is obvious if you look at the pictures in that wikipedia link. Those are Nikon (and later Canon) bodies with Kodak digital sensors. Kodak was a film company, not a camera company. They weren't in the business of making cameras (aside from some cheap consumer models and disposables). When the industry shifted from film to digital, the companies which ended up on top were companies skilled at making cameras/lenses (Canon, Nikon, Olympus, Zeiss, and their arch-rival Fuji which had been busy making decent point and shoots prior to the switch to digital), and companies skilled at making electronics/silicon (Sony, Panasonic, Casio, etc). Kodak thought they could carve a piece of the digital sensor pie for themselves, but rapidly found themselves unable to keep up with companies with decades of expertise manufacturing microprocessors who simply shifted that expertise into manufacturing sensors. In other words, the best business model for making camera sensors turned out not to be knowing how to make camera sensors. It turned out to be knowing how to make microchips.

  7. So... about this memo by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 2

    Are we violating any of Intellectual Ventures' patents by reading it?

    --
    #DeleteChrome
  8. Re:Maybe MSFT was trying to learn from Xerox by mbkennel · · Score: 5, Insightful

    | Kodak was a film company, not a camera company.

    What Kodak didn't realize, and its competitor, Fuji did realize, was that Kodak was actually a materials, coatings & chemical processing company, but it thought it was a photography company. As you recognize, the expertise wasn't in how film works, it's how film factories work, and the people who knew semiconductor factories made better sensors.

    If they did realize this, they'd be around today making graphene or medical instruments.

    And for a number of decades Kodak, along with Perkin-Elmer (also in upstate New York) made the most impressive photography system in the world, i.e. the film-based NRO surveillance satellites, and could never talk about it. That big stream of revenue also died.

  9. Re:Meh, why should we spend money on that? by mbkennel · · Score: 4, Insightful

    | I have every expectation that the guys who invented the transistor met with business people who told them: "That's real nice, but I already have a triode or a pentode for that. Give me something I don't already have.

    No. That's what happens now. That didn't happen in the 1950's at Bell Labs or in any successful organization in the era of significant American technical/industrial competence (1920-1980).

  10. MS Research was meant to mop up talent, that's all by echtertyp · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Waaay back I remember someone pointing out that Microsoft was spending enormous sums to hire researchers, especially promising ones in academia. The idea, apparently, was for MS Research to be a sort of "intellectual roach motel" (love that phrase) were IQ would check in, and nothing checked out. This made a certain amount of sense. As a monopolist you don't -want- any innovation. One way to do that is hire hitmen to kill potential innovators. But the risks there are huge. A much easier way if you have the money is to hire promising minds and then keep them neutralized. That's just what Microsoft did.

  11. What a fatuous, nebulous piece of crap??? by aurizon · · Score: 2

    All that memo will do (and it did) is to create a regressive hierarchy of backbiting political scum, who devote their energy to their next, larger, paycheck.
    Any new ideas will be ruthlessly crushed, to avoid the risk their will succeed and toss those on high into the rubbish heap of history.
    So they have done that with the company, and it only survive because of its natural monopolies in a few software fields.

    Apple could have killed them ages ago, by allowing their OS to be licensed on any processor, and include a state machine rom with each licenced copy, said state machine being a soldered un-crackable dongle, so that Apple gets ~~$100 per copy - they would slay Microsoft.
    As it is Apple clings to their walled garden = dumb, but Apple = richer than me, so what do I know?

    1. Re:What a fatuous, nebulous piece of crap??? by edelbrp · · Score: 4, Informative

      Apple could have killed them ages ago, by allowing their OS to be licensed on any processor, and include a state machine rom with each licenced copy, said state machine being a soldered un-crackable dongle, so that Apple gets ~~$100 per copy - they would slay Microsoft.
      As it is Apple clings to their walled garden = dumb, but Apple = richer than me, so what do I know?

      I think you forgot about the Mac clone era. Unfortunately, the third party clones were horrible. At the time, discontinuing the licensing of Mac clones was the right thing to do. All they did was tarnish Apple's image.

    2. Re:What a fatuous, nebulous piece of crap??? by steveha · · Score: 2

      At the time, discontinuing the licensing of Mac clones was the right thing to do. All they did was tarnish Apple's image.

      Actually, I agree with both you and the person to whom you are responding. Apple could have killed Windows by licensing out Mac OS, but it was the wrong thing at the time they actually tried it.

      The Microsoft approach was to license out DOS and Windows to anyone who wanted it, taking a small royalty per copy and making money on a huge volume. The Apple approach is to make more money per unit, while selling fewer units. I firmly believe that if Apple had tried the Microsoft approach in, say, 1988, they would have won big-time. Windows was still a joke in 1988, and people were spending crazy money to buy Macs.

      Licensing out Mac OS in small volume gains the benefits of neither approach. If Apple only got small volumes, they couldn't make Microsoft levels of money on a small royalty; yet cheap "clones" reduced their ability to charge large amounts on small volumes.

      Steve Jobs never wanted the Microsoft approach anyway. He wanted to sell premium stuff that looked awesome and commanded a premium price. But I wish that Apple had embraced the Microsoft model early; we'd all be running Motorola processors rather than x86.

      --
      lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
  12. Re: Light of Day: Dim Light through Small Crack by Shados · · Score: 2

    Its semi-common in financial industries (who generally are mostly *Nix/Java based, but always have a substantial percentage of Windows development for either client or specialized server side use. They often get steep discounts because of all the exchange/office licenses they get).

    The neat thing about F# is that its an ML dialect, and thus is fairly good for complex/mathy algorithms that are best written functionally. Then C# can consume the F# DLL's transparently. Don't get me wrong, there isn't hundreds of millions of lines of code written in it, but when I was in that industry, I worked at a few company (one among the "big 3") that has a substantial F# department, to write operational research algorithms to help balance portfolios and stuff.

  13. sound of tap tap on the screen... by MoreThanThen · · Score: 2

    It looks like you're trying to write a memo... let me help you with that

  14. Re:That scene from Pirates of Silicon Valley by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

    Apparently it actually does.

    Except it doesn't, because Apple sold style, not superiority. What brought them back into fashion was the iPod, and there were competitors which were superior in every way other than style.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  15. Re:Maybe MSFT was trying to learn from Xerox by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

    What led to Kodak's downfall is obvious if you look at the pictures in that wikipedia link. Those are Nikon (and later Canon) bodies with Kodak digital sensors.

    There's other things as well. I owned a couple of Kodak digital cameras because they were very cheap. The first one had a bad interface even for cameras of the day (people were still using quicktakes when I bought it) but I took a chance and bought another one figuring that surely they would have figured it out by now [then] and NOPE. Kodak-branded digital cameras have literally the worst interfaces I have ever used. I started with a Casio QV-11...

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"