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NASA: Lunar Pits and Caves Could House Astronauts

An anonymous reader writes: Astronomers have documented hundreds of holes on the lunar surface. These aren't simply craters, but actual pits ranging from 5 to 900 meters across. Scientists suspects many of these will lead to underground cave systems, which NASA says would be great spots for an astronaut habitat once we get back to the Moon. "A habitat placed in a pit — ideally several dozen meters back under an overhang — would provide a very safe location for astronauts: no radiation, no micrometeorites, possibly very little dust, and no wild day-night temperature swings," said Robert Wagner of Arizona State University. He says it's time to send probes into a few of these pits to see what they're like: "Pits, by their nature, cannot be explored very well from orbit — the lower walls and any floor-level caves simply cannot be seen from a good angle. Even a few pictures from ground-level would answer a lot of the outstanding questions about the nature of the voids that the pits collapsed into. We're currently in the very early design phases of a mission concept to do exactly this, exploring one of the largest mare pits."

21 of 157 comments (clear)

  1. We have to be quick about it. by nospam007 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Newt Gingrich isn't getting any younger, and that Moon-town needs a Mayor.

  2. no wild day-night temperature swings... by gb7djk · · Score: 2

    Which is code for "extremely cold all the time".

    1. Re:no wild day-night temperature swings... by kamapuaa · · Score: 3, Informative

      With no atmosphere, you could also say it's extremely well-insulated all the time.

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    2. Re:no wild day-night temperature swings... by RockDoctor · · Score: 2

      Which is code for "extremely cold all the time".

      And managing "extremely cold all the time" is much easier than having to manage rapidly changing temperatures.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  3. Forward into the past by Concerned+Onlooker · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Sounds like a cool idea to me, but it seems a bit like a cosmic joke that we would in a way be reverting to a past we had here on earth by living in caves. The symbolism is nice, though; starting over in a new environment.

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    http://www.rootstrikers.org/
    1. Re: Forward into the past by Concerned+Onlooker · · Score: 2

      Not sure about a movie, but it IS a line from a Firesign Theatre piece. :-)

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      http://www.rootstrikers.org/
    2. Re:Forward into the past by FatLittleMonkey · · Score: 4, Insightful

      reverting to a past we had here on earth by living in caves

      Ancient humans didn't "live in caves". Caves are just especially good as preserving signs of human activity. You'll note the decided lack of cave dwelling amongst remnant hunter gatherers in the modern world.

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      Science is all about firing a drunk pig out of a cannon just to see what happens.
  4. The only problem is... by hedgemage · · Score: 3, Funny

    Scientific films of yesteryear have informed us that any lunar caves are inhabited by insect men. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt00...

    1. Re:The only problem is... by RockDoctor · · Score: 2

      It is possible that there have been human-like creatures before, they evolved, left the planet,

      You missed out the bit about cleaning up every sign that they'd ever existed. Which is not a trait that any human society has ever had.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  5. No wild day-night temperature swings.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Yep. It'd be in shadow all the time which means it would be perpetually cold. 26 to 35 Kelvin cold.

    That means to maintain the habitat, you'd have to have a perpetual power source. To me, that says you look at the poles with an eye towards building mirrors to reflect sunlight onto a heat collector. The poles are more likely to have a site that has both a pit and more or less full time sun. Unless of course, you want to ship a nuclear reactor to the moon in which case you'll need political will which is scarcer than perpetual sunlight.

    1. Re:No wild day-night temperature swings.... by ledow · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Like, gosh, space for instance?

      The ISS isn't exactly sitting there in a cosy blanket with a fire on... it's fighting against things just as cold.

      Also, the amount of insulation you can carry is ENORMOUS (because most insulation is nothing more than pockets of gas trapped in a thin substrate, so think "expanding foam" instead of "brick"). Insulation means you don't care what it is outside - once the inside has been warmed once, you are only fighting the speed which heat leaks through the insulation. Anything decent and modern and we're talking minimal loss.

      Otherwise, quite literally, you would die camping in the Antarctic with only clothes and a little tent to keep you warm.

      Heat's not the problem, if you've already got the power, the infrastructure, the ability to move the materials, to shore up the place, build a structure, move into it, and live independently inside it.

    2. Re:No wild day-night temperature swings.... by Gavagai80 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The ISS orbits the Earth every 90 minutes. The moon has a two week long night. Storing power through the latter is a much bigger issue.

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    3. Re:No wild day-night temperature swings.... by Gaygirlie · · Score: 2

      Yep. It'd be in shadow all the time which means it would be perpetually cold. 26 to 35 Kelvin cold.

      Space doesn't work like that. Without air to transfer the heat away you're basically living in an environment with really thick insulation at all times and you actually need to find ways of transferring excess heat away, not generating more of it. If you jump out of a space station or space ship without any suit it's not the cold that kills you, it's the pressure. It would actually take a long, long time for you to even reach the point of hypothermia in space, let alone anything worse.

  6. As always, Clarke was first by sphealey · · Score: 2

    Time to re-read _A Fall of Moondust_

    sPh

  7. Re:What caves? by tomhath · · Score: 2
    FTFA:

    Most pits were found either in large craters with impact melt ponds – areas of lava that formed from the heat of the impact and later solidified, or in the lunar maria – dark areas on the moon that are extensive solidified lava flows hundreds of miles across.

  8. Re:Glass half-empty by mark-t · · Score: 2

    I only suggest it because to suggest otherwise, which is that humanity will stay here until we are destroyed, is to project that certain extinction-level events will definitely strike our species before we can ever try. I'm only making the assumption that humanity will continue to make progress in the coming decades and centuries... which is less a statement of enthusiasm and more of an inevitability, barring something else happening here which hasn't been foreseen wiping us all out first. The latter is certainly possible, but there's also no reason to conclude that it's particularly likely... except over a very prolonged period, during which time human civilization can continue to advance technologically. So the notion of thinking that we'll get off of this rock before we're wiped out should be seen as at least as probable.

  9. Re:What caves? by Gavagai80 · · Score: 2

    It's a known fact that the moon once had a lot of volcanic activity. Remaining volcanos are dormant, but lava tubes still exist.

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  10. Space program greatly benefited from the cold war by perpenso · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The space program is a lot more productive now than when we were focused on a retarded war with the Russians. Unlike the 60's, we're actually doing basic science and planetary science missions now instead of chest thumping bravado.

    Much of the science and tech of today's planetary missions are the result of military tech and those glory days of NASA manned missions. Those manned lunar missions were preceded by various robotic lunar missions.

    The cold war greatly benefited the space program, it funded its tech. That chest thumping got the public behind all that spending on space. NASA and the US space program suffer today because of a lack of interest by the people. Fortunately the civilian commercial space industry seems to be coming along quite nicely.

  11. Re:Glass half-empty by KeensMustard · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Except that it isn't. The moon is so close that none of the actual problems assoicated with human space travel even come into focus. And of course, it is not 'pushing further into space'. We've been to the edge of the solar system, we've visited comets, plunged into the icy atmosphere of Titan.

    By us, of course I mean our machines, not physical humans - the distinction between abstracting 'our' presence via a machine or by the physical presence of a bunch of humans we've never met and are not related to us is purely arbitrary. What makes humans distinct from other creatures is that we can abstract our intent into machines that fulfill that intent: ploughs, swords, trains, coaches, treaties, man pages, computers, space probes. We are not limited by the limitations of our physical bodies.

    To suggest that we, ill adapted to space as we are, ought to go physically into space instead of sending a machine is absurd - like saying that a field is only plowed if dug by hand, or the only correct calculation is done without the aid of a computer, calculator or abacus.

  12. Re:Hmm... by mikael · · Score: 2

    There's just an opportunity in Siberia - just opened up this week. Current theories are giant sandworms, graboids, pingo's, ufo's or an alien missile base:

    http://sploid.gizmodo.com/myst...

    --
    Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
  13. Re:Glass half-empty by c6gunner · · Score: 2

    To suggest that we, ill adapted to flight as we are, ought to go physically into the sky instead of sending a machine is absurd - like saying that a field is only plowed if dug by hand, or the only correct calculation is done without the aid of a computer, calculator or abacus.