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White House Approves Sonic Cannons For Atlantic Energy Exploration

An anonymous reader writes: The White House on Friday gave final approval to allow the use of sonic cannons in finding energy deposits underneath the ocean floor on the U.S. Atlantic seaboard. The Bureau of Ocean Energy Management says that finding energy resources off the Atlantic seaboard "could generate thousands of jobs, but has also acknowledged that the process will harm sea creatures." Sonic cannons "fire sound waves 100 times louder than a jet engine." Mammals such as whales and dolphins that communicate through sound will most likely be affected, but scientists aren't sure to what extent. They also aren't sure how the cannons will affect fish and other sea creatures or how any physiological effects on them may impact the fishing industries of the U.S. and the other countries who rely on seafood that migrate into and out of the Atlantic Ocean.

42 of 272 comments (clear)

  1. Lol by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Fuck the earth, we do what we want!

    1. Re:Lol by davester666 · · Score: 4, Funny

      everything is safe until we absolutely, 100%, know, for sure, with absolutely no dissent from anyone, that it is not safe.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    2. Re:Lol by davester666 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      in small print "for foreign workers"

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    3. Re: Lol by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Everything is safe always, you mean. In a world with the GOP, the EPA could find that this causes a 10000% increase in sudden infant death syndrome and no ban will pass the House because of "rabble rabble job creators class warfare energy independence"

    4. Re: Lol by sumdumass · · Score: 2

      The GOP took the white house? And here I thought there was another 2 years or so before they even got the chance to do something like that.

    5. Re:Lol by Noah+Haders · · Score: 2, Insightful

      goodness I'm tired of this white house. the sooner the better.

    6. Re:Lol by danceswithtrees · · Score: 2

      Because you think the next one will be better?

    7. Re:Lol by dbIII · · Score: 4, Funny

      The last one was good but the Canadians burnt it down.

    8. Re:Lol by Nyder · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Hey man, didn't you read "could generate thousands of jobs?" Let me say that again. COULD. MAKE. THOUSANDS. JOBS.

      End of discussion. We all know the only things worse than aborting potential jobs are terrorism and taxes.

      Ya, but those jobs are going to be cleaning the dead fish & sea mammals off beaches.

      --
      Be seeing you...
    9. Re:Lol by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      With such unknowns as the following what could possibly go wrong?

      Sonic cannons "fire sound waves 100 times louder than a jet engine." Mammals such as whales and dolphins that communicate through sound will most likely be affected, but scientists aren't sure to what extent. They also aren't sure how the cannons will affect fish and other sea creatures or how any physiological effects on them may impact the fishing industries of the U.S. and the other countries who rely on seafood that migrate into and out of the Atlantic Ocean.

  2. Hoping this is not as bad as it sounds by sideslash · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Can they give "warning shots" for some time period ahead of time to clear the area? Can they definitively detect whether any large mammals are in the vicinity before giving the big blasts?

    Actually, even if they can, this sounds really bad, no pun intended. :(

    1. Re:Hoping this is not as bad as it sounds by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The _turf_ of bottom dwelling creatures can be quite small, especially of mollusks. Injuring them, or driving away their predators, is likely to have quite large ecological consequences. Even driving away vegetarian creatures from their feeding grounds is likely to interfere with stable ecologies.

    2. Re:Hoping this is not as bad as it sounds by Rei · · Score: 4, Informative

      286 db at source? Air cannons are 250 db at source, so 3 and a half orders of magnitude less powerful. Lightning in the ocean is 260 db at source and your average square kilometer of ocean gets two strikes per year. These ships will be covering tens of millions of square kilometers. With a pulse rate of once every 10 seconds (3.2 million pulses per year per ship, if they run constantly, which they almost certainly won't), you're looking at an order of magnitude less per ship than lightning (and I doubt there will be many ships, and they won't always be in operation). And lightning striking water is an order of magnitude louder. It even causes shock waves in the water by the same mechanism - rapidly creating an air bubble in the water (in lightning's case, by boiling the water) which then oscillates as it implodes and explodes repeatedly.

      Now, one could say that this is different because it's all in one place at a given time, and thus animals would be tempted to flee instead of it being a one-off thing. But then again, lightning strikes aren't spread out evenly over space and time either, they come in thunderstorms which do the exact same thing, repeatedly hitting the same section of sea for hours at a time.

      I'm not saying that I think these ships are harmless - not at all. I just think that I think people are overplaying it when they make these apocalyptic pronouncements on what effect they'll have on sea life. I mean, people have been detonating underwater *atomic bombs* - how do you think that compares to the sound of a pop of air? At 400 feet, a blue whale's own calls (188db @ 1m) are louder than the air gun.

      --
      People said I was dumb, but I proved them.
    3. Re:Hoping this is not as bad as it sounds by sillybilly · · Score: 2

      I think whales in the North Pacific can hear blasts from the South Pacific, of sufficiently low frequency, such as 0.01 Hz or something like that. I haven't researched it. And from what I know, most beached whales seem to be beached over low frequency sounds in the sea, by ships and whatnot, but those sounds are constant, annoying, as opposed to a blast here and there. And if they want seismic things, they can blast underground nukes on islands, because to get a really good wave going you need a few megatons of blast power, and only nukes do that economically, unless you are willing to build a couple million tons of TNT - bomb (each ton is about 1 tow motor pallet skid), so to blast off nukes without polluting the ocean you need to do it either buried into the ocean floor, or find islands and bury them in dry land and blast it like that. But the underground contamination you create will be permanent, or at least stay behind for thousands of years. So a couple million skids of TNT is not as polluting, more environmentally friendly, compared to a heavily polluting small quarter ton nuke of the same blasting power. (They should ban all free blasting nukes for environmental reasons, and nuclear things all belong only into a nuclear power plant with reprocessing and reburning of any polluting waste. Nuclear propulsion subs and ships can recycle the spent fuel, and if they found a way to blast a nuke and contain all the fallout, and recycle it, that would be great, but I don't think it's possible. Cuz when we're about to kill your ass, we do it in an environmentally friendly way. No napalm, no Hannibal like scorched earth policy whose effects devastate southern Italy even today, 2000 years later, all chemical warfare gases biodegradable (like isothiazolone biocides in shampoo are unstable and self degrade and don't pollute, that kind of stuff. As long as we're killing each other we should make sure to protect the planet and environment for the future generations of those of us who win, or for other wildlife and animals, like bugs, who've got no business in whatever our dispute is about), They should put that stuff into the modern Geneva conventions for warfare.) Why don't they just wait, with their probes ready, for the regular earthquakes and volcanic eruption blasts that happen once every few years? And whales are probably adapted to once in a while massive earthquake blasts, what they really hate is the constant, constant annoying sounds made by ships and submarines.

    4. Re:Hoping this is not as bad as it sounds by sillybilly · · Score: 2

      I think for whales it's not the loudness that beaches them, but the constancy of the annoying sounds. If they plan as many blasts as you say they do, they should spread it out for like 10 years, and do a whole lot for 1 day, then stop for a few days, then repeat, and this way, whales that decide to get beached, don't reach the beach in time before the annoyance stops, and they get plenty of time to wander about and get far away from the beach before the next set of annoying blasts goes off in quick succession. Dragging it out for years creates jobs, and you can get the oceanographers and biologists involved too, who can track a whale from a chopper and ship, and follow it on its way to get beached, and tell the blasting guys, hey, we're getting close to the beach with our whale, stop blasting, and when the whale wanders back far enough, make the call, that hey, you can start blasting again. Follow a few whales, like 5, statistically, and monitor the coasts for any beachings and be ready to hoist the beached whales back into the sea with choppers and ropes.

    5. Re:Hoping this is not as bad as it sounds by JMJimmy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Speaking strictly in terms of pressure:

        - A 1kt nuclear explosion is 300-310db re 1 Pa at 1m
        - A seismic air cannon is 264-270db re 1 Pa at 1m
        - Whales can go anywhere from 108 to 225b re 1 Pa at 1m

      Looking at that without any context one might think it's no big deal. Except that for every 6db you're doubling the pressure.

      240db re 1 Pa at 1m is 100% lethal to fish and mammals up to 125m, permanent hearing loss on all trauma frequencies to >50% of fish/mammals to a range of 900m and causes some permanent hearing damage up to 1.5km (McAnuff and Booren, 1976; Yelverton and Richmond, 1981; Phillips et al., 1989: Richmond et al., 1989; Myricket ai., 1989)

  3. They already do this elsewhere by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    I've heard a geologist speak of doing this in the Mediterranean. I would hope the experience would allow them to do more than speculate about the effects on animals.

  4. Thanks Obama! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is just disgusting news

  5. I want one by eyegone · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I don't care what they're supposed to be used for. They may be civilization's last hope of controlling my children.

    --
    "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
  6. Other loud noises by ishmaelflood · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I wonder how loud they are compared with underwater explosions, volcanoes and seaquakes?

    1. Re:Other loud noises by jbolden · · Score: 2

      210 dB 2.0 earthquake (sound force is the equivalent of holding a stick of dynamite).
      235 dB 5.0 earthquake
      248 dB atom bomb
      310 dB loudest volcano that we know of (happened in 1883)

    2. Re:Other loud noises by jbolden · · Score: 2

      All over the web. Those particular data: http://www.decibelcar.com/menu...

    3. Re:Other loud noises by Rei · · Score: 3, Informative

      Common screwup. Those are all atmosphere-rated decibel figures. Underwater decibel figures are listed at 61.5 dB louder than their atmospheric equivalents. 250 dB underwater is 188.5 atmospheric.

      Adjusting your above examples to be underwater figures, we get:

      271.5 dB 2.0 earthquake
      296.5 dB 5.0 earthquake
      309.5 dB atom bomb
      371.5 dB loudest volcano

      I'd think it obvious that an air cannon isn't going to produce sound levels equivalent to an atomic bomb. And actually one would expect an underwater atomic bomb to be much louder than a surface one, far more of the energy is going to go into creating a gigantic oscillating bubble. And lastly, your cited atomic bomb figure is only for the 16 and 21 kiloton bombs that were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Modern thermonuclear weapons are generally three orders of magnitude higher yield than that. A large thermonuclear weapon in deep water will create a bubble on the order of magnitude of a kilometer in size, which will then oscillate in a series of collapses and reexplosions. The oscillating bubbles created by air cannons are practically microscopic by comparison.

      --
      People said I was dumb, but I proved them.
  7. The White House isn't stupid.. by Rigel47 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They know that above all the oil must flow. Without the oil that came from the fracking boom oil would probably be at $150/barrel or higher. Without flowing oil the economy suffers (many past recessions were precipitated by high oil prices), the common man starts to get irritated at higher food prices, less disposable income.. for those that had disposable income to start with. The house of cards starts to sway even more.

    Cheap oil is the real bread and circus that keeps the masses subdued. Some dead whales and dolphins isn't even a consideration.

    1. Re:The White House isn't stupid.. by __aanbvm4272 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So You're saying oil is cheap now??? You are blind to investor trading. Who is buying oil at $120 a barrel? We don't know because it's a 'privacy thing'. Or trade secret they say How convenient.... So what if BIG oil is buying their own commodity to keep the #s up. Saudi Arabia said they would be happy with $50 to 60 a barrel and yet it is double where it realistically should be, according to commodity analysts. I have studied it. So saying it would be $150 is a lie and scare tactic. Because THAt is exactly what caused the BIG recession. $147.00 price. Remember the saying "what can we do about it???" Or weren't you alive back when we got robbed of our hi-way freedom. We are paying TWICE as much as we should be for gasoline to line some traders pocket. PERIOD. wake up. The war in Iraq was supposedly going to free up oil and we have never paid more ever since.

    2. Re:The White House isn't stupid.. by saleenS281 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Or, if they went back to banning speculation on commodities, oil would be $25/barrel. But not allowing wall street to fuck us would be anti-American and borderline COMMUNIST!

  8. Even regular sonar wreaks havoc on marine life by jenningsthecat · · Score: 4, Informative

    When sonar is used, it can create sound pressure levels of 140dB 300 miles from the source . The sound is so excruciating that whales will surface too fast and get the bends, and/or beach themselves, just to escape the sound.

    Yup, let's rape our irreplaceable planet some more while torturing innocent, intelligent creatures. After all, they aren't human, and our comfort, convenience, and entertainment are so much more important than their lives.

    --
    'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
    1. Re:Even regular sonar wreaks havoc on marine life by jbolden · · Score: 2

      The article is full of crap:

      Some systems operate at more than 235 decibels, producing sound waves that can travel across tens or even hundreds of miles of ocean

      BS. 235 decibels is louder than almost all volcanos. That's essentially a 31megaton explosion. The navy has tested ship based sonar of that power but only experimentally. No submarine has every carried anything remotely like that. Sonar in use on subs maxes out at around 180 dB, which is still about the equivalent of a 1lb explosion but nowhere near 235.

    2. Re:Even regular sonar wreaks havoc on marine life by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 4, Informative

      Decibels used in SONAR are referenced to 1 microPascal; deciBels used in audio are referenced to 20 microPascals. Thus there is a 26 dB difference in level. A level of 140 dB underwater is the same as 114 dB SPL (in air). About a mid-level peak at an EDM club. Source: designing SONAR systems for scientific and fisheries research for the better part of a decade...

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
  9. Some of the jobs this would create by marciot · · Score: 5, Funny

    1) Fish Deafness Specialist
    2) Hearing Aid Designer for Dolphins
    3) Bass Boosting Headphone Maker for Bass
    4) ASL Teachers for Octopi
    5) Jellyfish Mending Seamstress
    6) Aquatic PTSD Therapist
    7) Exploding Whale Cleanup Crew

  10. Re:BAD,Bad, Bad! by jbolden · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You are the reason environmentalism gets discredited. Of course our needs are a consideration. The oceans must exist for future generations to do what for them? Fulfill their needs. The first imperative of every species is survival, that is nature. We can talk about balance or relative cost, but there is no way that humans are going to agree to extinct themselves.

  11. So It Has Come To This by mentil · · Score: 2

    This will create a Sharknado, won't it?

    --
    Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
  12. Re:The Republicans that rule this country... by rubycodez · · Score: 2

    get that nonsense out of your head. the ones with Republicans and Democrats in their pockets rule your world. hint, the seat of power in the USA isn't Washington DC, it is New York

  13. Re:The Republicans that rule this country... by the_Bionic_lemming · · Score: 2

    Ahhh, so Dinos are totally without blame because the other party woulda done it?

    The senate, the Oval office, all controlled by Dinos - but it's Bush's fault...

    --
    _ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
  14. Bullshit by l0ungeb0y · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Just because they don't have exact figures, doesn't mean they don't know the outcome. They've already seen the effects our underwater noise making with naval craft and underwater military technology has had. But hey, as long as they can say "we don't know exactly100% for sure" it's A-OK, because the US needs jobs. And so the self-proclaimed "most transparent", "pro middle-class", "pro environment", "anti-lobbyist" President in History® gives BP, Shell and Exxon the OK to drive aquatic mammals into killing themselves and to suffer social separation because that's EXACTLY what they already know happens when we bombard the ocean with sonic disturbances. They just don' t know HOW MUCH WORSE it will be. just that it will be worse.

  15. Re:so long as the duration is... by upontheturtlesback · · Score: 2

    The 235 decibel blasts from these sonic cannons enters the water about every ten seconds, 24 hours a day, for weeks or months on end, per exploration mission. 235 decibels is about a million times louder than standing next to a jet engine. It kills or injures nearby life almost immediately.

    The US Navy recently increased sonar exercises without a proper assessment of the risks to marine mammals. The service and the Navy later estimated that the use of sonar during the five year plan will result in the death or injury of 650,000 marine animals. Their own study.

    This isn't something you can compare to the noise that your neighbours make, it's essentially the shockwave from a powerful bomb that travels hundreds of kilometers in every direction due to the increased conduction of the wave by the density of the fluid (water). This is one of the largest compression waves that humans can generate, and it "hemorrhages in and around the ears" and causes "organ damage and internal injuries similar to decompression sickness".

  16. Re:so long as the duration is... by upontheturtlesback · · Score: 2

    The 235 decibel blasts from these sonic cannons enters the water about every ten seconds, 24 hours a day, for weeks or months on end, per exploration mission. 235 decibels is about a million times louder than standing next to a jet engine. It kills or injures nearby life almost immediately.

    The US Navy recently increased sonar exercises without a proper assessment of the risks to marine mammals. The service and the Navy later estimated that the use of sonar during the five year plan will result in the death or injury of 650,000 marine animals. Their own study.

    This isn't something you can compare to the noise that your neighbours make, it's essentially the shockwave from a powerful bomb that goes off every 10 seconds for weeks or months and travels hundreds of kilometers in every direction due to the increased conduction of the wave by the density of the fluid (water). This is one of the largest compression waves that humans can generate, and it "hemorrhages in and around the ears" and causes "organ damage and internal injuries similar to decompression sickness". If you intentionally wanted to kill every living mammal in the ocean, there are few things you could do that would accomplish it quicker or more effectively.

    I'm not a US citizen, but you should Contact your Congressional Representative and tell them that this won't fly, immediately.

  17. Re:so long as the duration is... by Karmashock · · Score: 2

    For what its worth, I fired off an email to my congressman. Sounds like its too far gone to stop but we can hope.

    Understand, I am pro oil drilling, pro nuclear power... and all sorts of other things you likely find unsavory. But this just seems wanton to me. I'm not a monster or an idiot... and this seems like madness.

    If it didn't disturb marine life then I'd be fine with it. But blasting that into the water for months on end?... no.

    --
    I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
  18. Re:This is total BS by someone1234 · · Score: 2

    Scientists don't know what will happen to a dolphin getting in the way?
    Well, either they explode, or just get their brain squashed. It could be they just become permanently deaf or just scared shitless and swim to the shore to die there.
    Either case: they die, who cares which way?

    --
    Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
  19. Why should people change their energy use... by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When you can kill off the coasts to get a few more scraps to move everyone along until the US finds more oil owning brown people it can 'liberate'.

  20. THOUSANDS of Job Opportunities! by blackbeak · · Score: 3, Funny

    Wanted: Marine Life Impersonators. Must have own costume and be able to thrive in salt water conditions. Overtime available.

    --
    Everything and its opposite is true. Get used to it.