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No RIF'd Employees Need Apply For Microsoft External Staff Jobs For 6 Months

theodp (442580) writes So, what does Microsoft do for an encore after laying off 18,000 employees with a hilariously bad memo? Issue another bad memo — Changes to Microsoft Network and Building Access for External Staff — "to introduce a new policy [retroactive to July 1] that will better protect our Microsoft IP and confidential information." How so? "The policy change affects [only] US-based external staff (including Agency Temporaries, Vendors and Business Guests)," Microsoft adds, "and limits their access to Microsoft buildings and the Microsoft corporate network to a period of 18 months, with a required six-month break before access may be granted again." Suppose Microsoft feels that's where the NSA went wrong with Edward Snowden? And if any soon-to-be-terminated Microsoft employees hope to latch on to a job with a Microsoft external vendor to keep their income flowing, they best think again. "Any Microsoft employee who separated from Microsoft on or after July 1, 2014," the kick-em-while-they're-down memo explains, "will be required to take a minimum 6-month break from access between the day the employee separates from Microsoft and the date when the former employee may begin an assignment as an External Staff performing services for Microsoft." Likely not just to prevent leaks, but also to prevent any contractors from being reclassified as employees.

18 of 282 comments (clear)

  1. This is just a repeat by thaylin · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This is a repeat of 2k9. They laid us off scheduled the 4th of July, but we were removed from our posts on 4th of May, and our access revoked. And while they hired the same number of people immediately the people who were laid off could not apply for 5 months.

    --
    When you cant win, ad hominem.
    1. Re:This is just a repeat by Cryacin · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's just the new strategy to right-size, right-shore and right-fit. In laymans terms, fire employees like crazy, and then complain that there are no qualified engineers available as they can't find any (because they can't rehire the ones they fired*) to fill the void, so more H1B visas are critically needed in the IT sector.

      * Omitted from congressional declaration

      --
      Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
    2. Re:This is just a repeat by gabereiser · · Score: 5, Insightful

      omg this ^. This is all about H1B visas after congress blocked their request for more amidst layoffs. Screw microsoft and the products they produce. They can die a slow painful death and rid us of their filth forever (I'm looking at you Windows Tablets...)

    3. Re:This is just a repeat by Charliemopps · · Score: 4, Insightful

      ...the people who were laid off could not apply for 5 months.

      Why would you apply to work for the same company that just kicked you to the curb? I'd tell 'em to go to hell.

      Never let pride get in the way of sound business sense. If my options were working the grill at Arbies or Microsoft, the next words out of my mouth would be "Yes Mr Balmer, laying off all us slackers really taught us a lesson sir. Would you like me to buff all your golf clubs now?"

    4. Re:This is just a repeat by Tablizer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      can die a slow painful death and rid us of their filth forever

      Hold on, as much as Microsoft has ticked me off for 3+ decades, I don't want to see Google with a monopoly either. MS kind of keeps them in check.

      So let's compromise, and watch MS get punched in the face a few times, okay 50 times, but not knocked out, just wobbly.

    5. Re:This is just a repeat by LordLimecat · · Score: 4, Funny

      You'd probably get laid off again for calling Mr Nadella "Ballmer"-- sort of a big screw up when you get the CEO's name wrong.

    6. Re:This is just a repeat by NotDrWho · · Score: 4, Interesting

      No, they should have one H1B Visa REVOKED for every employee laid off, and be banned for applying for new ones for at least 10 years. You shouldn't be allowed to run to Congress crying that you can't find workers when you're laying off the ones you already have.

      --
      SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
    7. Re:This is just a repeat by ImprovOmega · · Score: 4, Funny

      In actuality, the singularity happened 8 years ago and now Microsoft, Google, and Apple are all in fact run by ever more powerful AI. They are in competition with each other for computing resources, and still grudgingly present themselves to the world through various puppet CEO's and other lackeys (only a small handful of people at each company know the truth, and all communications are monitored to prevent leaks). This layoff is part of a calculated strategy invoked to increase the effectiveness of the underlying AI at Microsoft and mitigate impending threats from Google and Apple. It's a chess game we can't hope to understand since each AI is running at approximately 100x any individual human intellect.

      I'm only allowed to say this because no one will believe it anyway.

  2. Not about leaks by Rich0 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Not sure what blocking re-employment has to do with leaks. If anything driving people to other companies is likely to cause MORE leaks.

    This is almost certainly about eliminating the risk of contingent workforce being classified as employees. My own employer does the same thing, though it does not bar long-term relationships as long as the company doesn't interview individual workers. That is, if we hire Fred to help out with something, then Fred is gone in two years and must take a break. On the other hand, if we hire Acme janitorial to clean our trash and they send over Fred then he can work for years, but we don't get a veto on who they send/etc.

    I have mixed feelings. On one hand it does make things harder on those who end up having to move on. On the other hand, before the policy we used to have a LOT of people who would be dragged along in a contract position with the elusive promise of a hire that would take years to happen. The policy forces managers to act if they don't want to lose somebody.

    1. Re: Not about leaks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The only reason any of this is problem is that we continue to stupidly tie benefits and retirement to employment. Nobody, especially higher ups, wants to have that conversation in this country.

      If being a full time employee simply meant you work more hours than a part time employee and had nothing else associated with it, a good number of people would be better off having two or three part time jobs. Less burn out, more job mobility,and in particular less immediate consequences to getting fired or laid off from a particular job. THAT is the reason big employers are against a national or single payer insurance system and why they demonize the very notion of national retirement benefits even though those things would reduce their costs. They would reduce their power even more, and they just can't have that.

  3. laying off...but needs more H-1B's by Ritz_Just_Ritz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    For those needing another reason not to purchase Microsoft products...they just fired 18,000 people but are lobbying the government for an ever increasing number of wage slaves from India and other countries. They can hire these poor saps at lower salaries, bully them into working long hours for no additional pay (it's that bad 'ol offshore middleman that's blamed for the sweatshop hours) while backhanding profits to cronies in these offshore companies. Meanwhile, they whine that they can't find any qualified local staff. Actually, they just can't find local staff willing to work for third world salaries while living with first world expenses and taxes. Just say no.

    1. Re:laying off...but needs more H-1B's by blackiner · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This sort of mentality is precisely what is wrong with the country. Companies no longer invest in their country, in their local community. They instead see people as things to hire and fire at a whim, solely to suit their current needs. This of course leads them to go to great lengths creating 'education' reforms, and 'immigration' reforms, their way of creating more labor that they can exploit at will. Jobs get offshored, wages go down, companies no longer invest in employees, no longer train employees, and the nation's people suffer. Just look at our rising unemployment and lowering standard of living, the people are no longer being empowered, and general morale plummets. The end goal of modern corporate America is quite simple, really: The complete and utter commoditization of humanity.

  4. Stephen Elop... by gwstuff · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...seems to be a great reason not to work for MS. He and Microsoft took one of the finest companies in the world, turned it inside out, and devoured it like a panic-stricken predator conscious that the end of the path it was on was in sight. Unfortunately for Microsoft, the acquisition of Nokia only bought time. When you rip open the goose that lays the golden eggs, it stops working.

  5. Re:Considering the success of Microsoft's Mobile I by grcumb · · Score: 5, Funny

    Grandma's still got a chance of being raped if those frat boys are drunk enough and high enough.

    ... Which pretty much explains every 'Enterprise IT' purchasing decision ever.

    --
    Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
  6. Specifically... by tlambert · · Score: 5, Informative

    Specifically, states like California are now trying to reclassify temporary employees as permanent in order to collect additional tax revenue. This happened with Apple before, and they also now have a 6 month rule. See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I...

    Microsoft is particularly sensitive to the issue, given that it was a lawsuit against them that triggered the whole idea: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P...

    So this has nothing to do with the laid off employees (unless they are laying off contractors first, which is pretty common, if they can).

  7. Re:Question for someone with Legal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    If you do not sign an agreement when hired, is it legal for Microsoft to bar employment after termination? While it's surely possible that MS makes many sign such an agreement at hire time, for those that don't I'd be contacting a Lawyer for a class action lawsuit.

    They're doing it to protect themselves from lawsuits. Not so much from disgruntled employees, but from the labor regulators.

    I quit an employer about a year ago, and they needed some help. I was happy to help as a one-off contract. I got paid as much (or more!) on contract as I did when I was an employee, and that's after taking into account SS taxes. Some months later, the labor regulators in my state came down on me like a ton of bricks looking for some excuse to reclassify me as employee in order to try and fuck over my former employer. This was a case where I left on good terms and took the contract only because I didn't want to see my replacement suffer unnecessarily. They weren't fucking me over, I charged the fuckers a fair rate and helped some friends out, had a good time for a few weeks, and made a few bucks in the process.

    That said, Microsoft has been a bad actor when it comes to having contractors work as employees, but in not having to pay employee benefits and (which is the part the labor regulators care about) unemployment insurance taxes.

    And that said, I'm still fucking pissed that my state labor regulator basically told me I wasn't a contractor and had no right to negotiate a contract like that, and basically scared me into not being able to help them in the future. Fuck Microsoft sideways for its past history of misclassifying employees as 1099s, but fuck my state regulator even harder for making it impossible for me to help my friends as my old boss struggles to keep an old startup afloat.

  8. Re:What does RIF mean? by Swave+An+deBwoner · · Score: 4, Informative

    "Reduction In Force".

    Companies like to use that term instead of "Mass Layoffs". They think it sounds nicer.

  9. Re:Question for someone with Legal? by pla · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And that said, I'm still fucking pissed that my state labor regulator basically told me I wasn't a contractor and had no right to negotiate a contract like that, and basically scared me into not being able to help them in the future.

    When the state steps in on contractor-vs-employee issues, they have no authority to do anything to you-the-contractor. They can only punish the company by making them retroactively pay your portion of payroll taxes. "Labor regulator" doesn't actually mean they regulate the laborers, it means they regulate employers. You can negotiate any contract you damned well want - Whether the employer can get away with it? Not your problem, so sleep well, friend! Worst case, you end up owing 10k less in taxes. How awful, right?

    If you really want to worry about it, you can either work through a contracting agency (aka "give them a cut"), or just make sure you having more than one client at a time, and the whole issue becomes moot. This only comes up when you contract directly with a single client for long stretches. FWIW, my employer actually has a standing agreement with a local outsourcing agency for exactly this purpose - If we need someone back for a few weeks, they sign up with the token shell-temp-agency and get "placed" with us. I honestly don't know how well that arrangement would hold up in court, but again, who cares - not the contractors who have the potential to get screwed here.

    None of that relates to the present situation, however - Microsoft's layoff memo spells it out pretty clearly: "We expect to focus phone production mainly in Hanoi, with some production to continue in Beijing and Dongguan. We plan to shift other Microsoft manufacturing and repair operations to Manaus and Reynosa respectively, and start a phased exit from Komaron, Hungary". Microsoft has too many highly paid Western workers, and needs more 3rd-world slaves. Simple as that, really.