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No RIF'd Employees Need Apply For Microsoft External Staff Jobs For 6 Months

theodp (442580) writes So, what does Microsoft do for an encore after laying off 18,000 employees with a hilariously bad memo? Issue another bad memo — Changes to Microsoft Network and Building Access for External Staff — "to introduce a new policy [retroactive to July 1] that will better protect our Microsoft IP and confidential information." How so? "The policy change affects [only] US-based external staff (including Agency Temporaries, Vendors and Business Guests)," Microsoft adds, "and limits their access to Microsoft buildings and the Microsoft corporate network to a period of 18 months, with a required six-month break before access may be granted again." Suppose Microsoft feels that's where the NSA went wrong with Edward Snowden? And if any soon-to-be-terminated Microsoft employees hope to latch on to a job with a Microsoft external vendor to keep their income flowing, they best think again. "Any Microsoft employee who separated from Microsoft on or after July 1, 2014," the kick-em-while-they're-down memo explains, "will be required to take a minimum 6-month break from access between the day the employee separates from Microsoft and the date when the former employee may begin an assignment as an External Staff performing services for Microsoft." Likely not just to prevent leaks, but also to prevent any contractors from being reclassified as employees.

28 of 282 comments (clear)

  1. This is just a repeat by thaylin · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This is a repeat of 2k9. They laid us off scheduled the 4th of July, but we were removed from our posts on 4th of May, and our access revoked. And while they hired the same number of people immediately the people who were laid off could not apply for 5 months.

    --
    When you cant win, ad hominem.
    1. Re:This is just a repeat by Cryacin · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's just the new strategy to right-size, right-shore and right-fit. In laymans terms, fire employees like crazy, and then complain that there are no qualified engineers available as they can't find any (because they can't rehire the ones they fired*) to fill the void, so more H1B visas are critically needed in the IT sector.

      * Omitted from congressional declaration

      --
      Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
    2. Re:This is just a repeat by gabereiser · · Score: 5, Insightful

      omg this ^. This is all about H1B visas after congress blocked their request for more amidst layoffs. Screw microsoft and the products they produce. They can die a slow painful death and rid us of their filth forever (I'm looking at you Windows Tablets...)

    3. Re:This is just a repeat by Charliemopps · · Score: 4, Insightful

      ...the people who were laid off could not apply for 5 months.

      Why would you apply to work for the same company that just kicked you to the curb? I'd tell 'em to go to hell.

      Never let pride get in the way of sound business sense. If my options were working the grill at Arbies or Microsoft, the next words out of my mouth would be "Yes Mr Balmer, laying off all us slackers really taught us a lesson sir. Would you like me to buff all your golf clubs now?"

    4. Re:This is just a repeat by jopsen · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Microsoft employees aren't good at anything but being Microsoft employees. They're just not qualified to do anything else.

      That's funny... but I doubt it's true. Many MS employees provides support or work on projects for other companies... And they will surely be in demand, you're basically giving up highly qualified Microsoft experts.


      While I personally, would like to avoid touching Microsoft services and products, let's just admit they are a giant, and other companies will continue to rely on Microsoft products. Just, think of the all the share-point plugins and what not...

    5. Re:This is just a repeat by cloud.pt · · Score: 3, Interesting

      In the US it might be H1B visas to hire cheap specialty workers from abroad. In the EU (where apparetnly most of this is happening), it's basically the same strategy but applied to EU supported fresh-outta-college internships (co-paid salaries tending to ZERO by employers), basically sending off the worst of the elders, and enslave the f*ck out of the young prodigies who they will scopp with mild salaries and a "promissing" future. This cycle happens in every major company in Europe. I have seen it in 3: Bosch, PT.pt and Siemens

    6. Re:This is just a repeat by Tablizer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      can die a slow painful death and rid us of their filth forever

      Hold on, as much as Microsoft has ticked me off for 3+ decades, I don't want to see Google with a monopoly either. MS kind of keeps them in check.

      So let's compromise, and watch MS get punched in the face a few times, okay 50 times, but not knocked out, just wobbly.

    7. Re:This is just a repeat by LordLimecat · · Score: 4, Funny

      You'd probably get laid off again for calling Mr Nadella "Ballmer"-- sort of a big screw up when you get the CEO's name wrong.

    8. Re:This is just a repeat by NotDrWho · · Score: 4, Interesting

      No, they should have one H1B Visa REVOKED for every employee laid off, and be banned for applying for new ones for at least 10 years. You shouldn't be allowed to run to Congress crying that you can't find workers when you're laying off the ones you already have.

      --
      SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
    9. Re:This is just a repeat by ImprovOmega · · Score: 4, Funny

      In actuality, the singularity happened 8 years ago and now Microsoft, Google, and Apple are all in fact run by ever more powerful AI. They are in competition with each other for computing resources, and still grudgingly present themselves to the world through various puppet CEO's and other lackeys (only a small handful of people at each company know the truth, and all communications are monitored to prevent leaks). This layoff is part of a calculated strategy invoked to increase the effectiveness of the underlying AI at Microsoft and mitigate impending threats from Google and Apple. It's a chess game we can't hope to understand since each AI is running at approximately 100x any individual human intellect.

      I'm only allowed to say this because no one will believe it anyway.

  2. I was in the same situation once by msobkow · · Score: 3, Funny

    I was in the same situation once. Laid off by Northern Telecom in the late '80s, I started work as a contractor at their head office three weeks later for double what I'd been paid as an employee. :)

    --
    I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
  3. Not about leaks by Rich0 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Not sure what blocking re-employment has to do with leaks. If anything driving people to other companies is likely to cause MORE leaks.

    This is almost certainly about eliminating the risk of contingent workforce being classified as employees. My own employer does the same thing, though it does not bar long-term relationships as long as the company doesn't interview individual workers. That is, if we hire Fred to help out with something, then Fred is gone in two years and must take a break. On the other hand, if we hire Acme janitorial to clean our trash and they send over Fred then he can work for years, but we don't get a veto on who they send/etc.

    I have mixed feelings. On one hand it does make things harder on those who end up having to move on. On the other hand, before the policy we used to have a LOT of people who would be dragged along in a contract position with the elusive promise of a hire that would take years to happen. The policy forces managers to act if they don't want to lose somebody.

    1. Re:Not about leaks by Charliemopps · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's simple, you hire people to do the jobs that need getting done.

      We, the employees are largely to blame though. I work with a lot of contractors that love their flexibility and how great it is... until the market takes a crap on their heads. Tech workers need to stop pretending like they'll be 18 forever. I know when things get bad you can hide in the basement and play wow until they pick back up, but really? Wouldn't it be better to just work a normal job and not have to screw around like that?

    2. Re:Not about leaks by gl4ss · · Score: 3, Interesting

      the way nokia handled plenty of contracting was that they were used just so that they didn't need to give them nokia perks when put off from the project(laying off).

      I should know. When applying for a job(got tipped off to "call this guy" who told me to contact another guy) I went straight to interview with the company contracting on behalf of the company I would be "working" for(2 layers deep subcontracting from day 0 of that gig, makes no real sense except from the eventual layoffing perks viewpoint - and for screwing over the unions since both the layer 1 subcon company and nokia were doing some layoffs). every day while there we walked roughly 100 meters to daily meeting at the very nearby Nokia offices - and Nokia people greenlighted me to work on the project, the "interview" was a joke because it was with two guys who would not be making the decision, and Nokia was used for getting the local equivalent of secret service background check done(which really just is a check for criminal record but they make it sound fancier). so why didn't Nokia hire me directly, they knew I was on the job market, they knew I was uncontracted at that point in time? well, for easier layoffs and so that some good buddy guys could get to shave my pay on two layers.

      oh and the whole Nokia crap from ms was solely and only to keep windows phone alive! that was their ONLY interest in the company and in insertion of Elop. and now they're killing the nokia X to keep windows phone alive(selling at all) since customers are liking nokia X more, as if people were choosing nokia x because it's nokia and would go for windows phone in the same 80 bucks category.

      if you don't know what Nokia X is, it's a 80 bucks dualcore android phone available in asia, africa etc markets.

      and the now laid off people in Finland in practice can go work whoever the fuck they want after they get laid off, prob is maybe 10% of them actually have usable skills and mindset... but their ex-nokia bosses aren't going to care for shit who they go work for and what "secrets" they take with them(there's no secrets to take with them so..).

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    3. Re:Not about leaks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      "so why didn't Nokia hire me directly, they knew I was on the job market, they knew I was uncontracted at that point in time? well, for easier layoffs and so that some good buddy guys could get to shave my pay on two layers."

      You are wrong here. Nokia uses temp workers because the low level managers can't get permissions to hire staff, but have a different budget for buying work from other companies. They are basically playing around the company bureucracy. It's not uncommon. It happens in other big companies also. The work has to get done, but hiring people is so burdensome and slow they use other companies to do the actual hiring part. It's not even cheaper for the company, even when accounting for the possible layoffs. That's not the only place where people dodge company bureucracy to actually get things done. I'm sure slashdot can tell many examples of this.

    4. Re: Not about leaks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The only reason any of this is problem is that we continue to stupidly tie benefits and retirement to employment. Nobody, especially higher ups, wants to have that conversation in this country.

      If being a full time employee simply meant you work more hours than a part time employee and had nothing else associated with it, a good number of people would be better off having two or three part time jobs. Less burn out, more job mobility,and in particular less immediate consequences to getting fired or laid off from a particular job. THAT is the reason big employers are against a national or single payer insurance system and why they demonize the very notion of national retirement benefits even though those things would reduce their costs. They would reduce their power even more, and they just can't have that.

  4. laying off...but needs more H-1B's by Ritz_Just_Ritz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    For those needing another reason not to purchase Microsoft products...they just fired 18,000 people but are lobbying the government for an ever increasing number of wage slaves from India and other countries. They can hire these poor saps at lower salaries, bully them into working long hours for no additional pay (it's that bad 'ol offshore middleman that's blamed for the sweatshop hours) while backhanding profits to cronies in these offshore companies. Meanwhile, they whine that they can't find any qualified local staff. Actually, they just can't find local staff willing to work for third world salaries while living with first world expenses and taxes. Just say no.

    1. Re:laying off...but needs more H-1B's by blackiner · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This sort of mentality is precisely what is wrong with the country. Companies no longer invest in their country, in their local community. They instead see people as things to hire and fire at a whim, solely to suit their current needs. This of course leads them to go to great lengths creating 'education' reforms, and 'immigration' reforms, their way of creating more labor that they can exploit at will. Jobs get offshored, wages go down, companies no longer invest in employees, no longer train employees, and the nation's people suffer. Just look at our rising unemployment and lowering standard of living, the people are no longer being empowered, and general morale plummets. The end goal of modern corporate America is quite simple, really: The complete and utter commoditization of humanity.

    2. Re:laying off...but needs more H-1B's by Penguinisto · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This is simple business 101, and there's no reason to take it personally. Of course Microsoft is going to do what's best for Microsoft. They do not owe you a job, or a 6-figure paycheck.

      ...and we don't owe Microsoft our patronage - it works both ways, which is what GP was calling out.

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
  5. Stephen Elop... by gwstuff · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...seems to be a great reason not to work for MS. He and Microsoft took one of the finest companies in the world, turned it inside out, and devoured it like a panic-stricken predator conscious that the end of the path it was on was in sight. Unfortunately for Microsoft, the acquisition of Nokia only bought time. When you rip open the goose that lays the golden eggs, it stops working.

  6. Re:Considering the success of Microsoft's Mobile I by grcumb · · Score: 5, Funny

    Grandma's still got a chance of being raped if those frat boys are drunk enough and high enough.

    ... Which pretty much explains every 'Enterprise IT' purchasing decision ever.

    --
    Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
  7. Specifically... by tlambert · · Score: 5, Informative

    Specifically, states like California are now trying to reclassify temporary employees as permanent in order to collect additional tax revenue. This happened with Apple before, and they also now have a 6 month rule. See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I...

    Microsoft is particularly sensitive to the issue, given that it was a lawsuit against them that triggered the whole idea: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P...

    So this has nothing to do with the laid off employees (unless they are laying off contractors first, which is pretty common, if they can).

  8. NTFS, exFAT, UDF by tepples · · Score: 3, Informative

    Suddenly you forget that any filesystem other than NTFS exists.

    Not This Fscking S#!+ again. True, Microsoft has been trolling the IT world by patenting exFAT and getting SD Card Association to mandate its use in SDXC. But supported Windows desktop operating systems (since Vista) can read and write UDF on flash drives. Or do specific Microsoft products have problems with UDF?

  9. Re:Question for someone with Legal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    If you do not sign an agreement when hired, is it legal for Microsoft to bar employment after termination? While it's surely possible that MS makes many sign such an agreement at hire time, for those that don't I'd be contacting a Lawyer for a class action lawsuit.

    They're doing it to protect themselves from lawsuits. Not so much from disgruntled employees, but from the labor regulators.

    I quit an employer about a year ago, and they needed some help. I was happy to help as a one-off contract. I got paid as much (or more!) on contract as I did when I was an employee, and that's after taking into account SS taxes. Some months later, the labor regulators in my state came down on me like a ton of bricks looking for some excuse to reclassify me as employee in order to try and fuck over my former employer. This was a case where I left on good terms and took the contract only because I didn't want to see my replacement suffer unnecessarily. They weren't fucking me over, I charged the fuckers a fair rate and helped some friends out, had a good time for a few weeks, and made a few bucks in the process.

    That said, Microsoft has been a bad actor when it comes to having contractors work as employees, but in not having to pay employee benefits and (which is the part the labor regulators care about) unemployment insurance taxes.

    And that said, I'm still fucking pissed that my state labor regulator basically told me I wasn't a contractor and had no right to negotiate a contract like that, and basically scared me into not being able to help them in the future. Fuck Microsoft sideways for its past history of misclassifying employees as 1099s, but fuck my state regulator even harder for making it impossible for me to help my friends as my old boss struggles to keep an old startup afloat.

  10. What does RIF mean? by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 3

    No RIF'd Employees Need Apply For Microsoft External Staff Jobs For 6 Months

    Maybe it's common parlance down your way, but what does RIF mean? Recently Inconveniently Fired? Real Imitation Fur? Raw Industrial Faeces?

    --
    systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    1. Re:What does RIF mean? by Swave+An+deBwoner · · Score: 4, Informative

      "Reduction In Force".

      Companies like to use that term instead of "Mass Layoffs". They think it sounds nicer.

  11. Re:Question for someone with Legal? by pla · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And that said, I'm still fucking pissed that my state labor regulator basically told me I wasn't a contractor and had no right to negotiate a contract like that, and basically scared me into not being able to help them in the future.

    When the state steps in on contractor-vs-employee issues, they have no authority to do anything to you-the-contractor. They can only punish the company by making them retroactively pay your portion of payroll taxes. "Labor regulator" doesn't actually mean they regulate the laborers, it means they regulate employers. You can negotiate any contract you damned well want - Whether the employer can get away with it? Not your problem, so sleep well, friend! Worst case, you end up owing 10k less in taxes. How awful, right?

    If you really want to worry about it, you can either work through a contracting agency (aka "give them a cut"), or just make sure you having more than one client at a time, and the whole issue becomes moot. This only comes up when you contract directly with a single client for long stretches. FWIW, my employer actually has a standing agreement with a local outsourcing agency for exactly this purpose - If we need someone back for a few weeks, they sign up with the token shell-temp-agency and get "placed" with us. I honestly don't know how well that arrangement would hold up in court, but again, who cares - not the contractors who have the potential to get screwed here.

    None of that relates to the present situation, however - Microsoft's layoff memo spells it out pretty clearly: "We expect to focus phone production mainly in Hanoi, with some production to continue in Beijing and Dongguan. We plan to shift other Microsoft manufacturing and repair operations to Manaus and Reynosa respectively, and start a phased exit from Komaron, Hungary". Microsoft has too many highly paid Western workers, and needs more 3rd-world slaves. Simple as that, really.

  12. Oh man, I read that wrong by chuckugly · · Score: 3, Funny

    I read that RFID'd, and then I spent about 60 seconds wondering what those guys I Redmond had been up to. Then I calmed down and reread it.