The NSA's New Partner In Spying: Saudi Arabia's Brutal State Police

Advocatus Diaboli sends this news from The Intercept: The National Security Agency last year significantly expanded its cooperative relationship with the Saudi Ministry of Interior, one of the world's most repressive and abusive government agencies. An April 2013 top secret memo provided by NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden details the agency's plans "to provide direct analytic and technical support" to the Saudis on "internal security" matters. The Saudi Ministry of Interior—referred to in the document as MOI— has been condemned for years as one of the most brutal human rights violators in the world. In 2013, the U.S. State Department reported that "Ministry of Interior officials sometimes subjected prisoners and detainees to torture and other physical abuse," specifically mentioning a 2011 episode in which MOI agents allegedly "poured an antiseptic cleaning liquid down [the] throat" of one human rights activist. The report also notes the MOI's use of invasive surveillance targeted at political and religious dissidents.

Comments

Heck, we probably already fund them

[danbuter]

I wouldn't be surprised at all if the US didn't set this agency up in the first place. At the very least, we probably provided the initial training.

Re:Heck, we probably already fund them

[jenningsthecat]

...Hamas really is "the bad guys"...

Did you ever stop to wonder if perhaps Hamas are "bad guys" because the Israelis have really left them no choice?

If you watch the entire video while maintaining a little intellectual honesty, you won't be so quick to condemn Hamas as being so much worse than the Israelis. There's plenty of evil in that region, and Israel is both directly and indirectly responsible for a very large part of it.

Re:Heck, we probably already fund them

[Jeremiah Cornelius]

Some Palestinians have, if at all, just seconds to leave before an attack but many do leave and flee to the school buildings that under control of the United Nations. The schools are opened especially for this and the UN personnel take care of the refugees and keep both "militants" and weapons out of its buildings.

It also provides the Israeli military with the exact coordinates of the schools. So guess what happens next:

Israeli shells hit UN shelter in Gaza:

As many as 30 people have been reported killed and 100 injured in the Israeli shelling of a UN school in Gaza that was being used as an emergency shelter.

Al Jazeera's correspondent Nicole Johnston, reporting from Gaza, said the school in Beit Hanoun came under shelling on Thursday. She said sources had told Al Jazeera that up up to 30 people had been killed in the bombardment.

The AFP reported a UN official as confirming "multiple dead and injured".

In an interview with Al Jazeera, Robert Turner, the director for UNRWA, the UN's refugee organisation in Gaza, said there was no warning from the Israelis before the shells landed. He confirmed there were casualties.

He said the UNRWA were in contact with Israeli forces about a window to evacuate the school before the attack happened

"This is a designated emergency shelter," he said. "The location was conveyed to the Israelis.

"This is the fourth strike on our installations in three days."

Four attacks on well known refugee centers within three days. Does anyone still believe that such attacks are some random accidents?

Re:Heck, we probably already fund them

[William Baric]

All around the world, there are manifestations against Israel. I live in Quebec (Canada) and if I look at the what people post related to what's happening in Israel on our main newspapers' websites (mainly La Presse and Le Devoir...), I'd say a clear majority of native Quebecers (not Muslims) now have an anti-Israel sentiment. I guess the rest of Canada is a bit less anti-Israel, but I'd still say the general opinion is not pro-Israel. If the death toll were higher, the anti-Israel sentiment would probably become an anti-Jew sentiment, which would disrupt our society enough to force Harper to stop his blind support to Israel.

Israel have the military means to kill a lot of Palestinians, but if it did so, it would end up isolated. And without the rest of the world's support, Israel simply can't survive. So I guess the goal of Israel is simply to strike fear among Palestinians. And for that, all Palestinians must think there's no place safe.

Were the attacks on refugee centers voluntary? Did they deliberately targeted a few civilian to send a message? I'm guessing the answer is yes.

Re:Heck, we probably already fund them

[jenningsthecat]

Anyone who says Israel have left Hamas no choice is both morally _and_ intellectually bankrupt !!

You didn't watch the video, did you, Mr. Anonymous Coward? The guy in it is the son of an Israeli general who was pretty much a hero to the Israelis, and who in his later life became devoted to the cause of peace and was very much against Israel's treatment of the Palestinians. His son, (the guy in the video), lost a beloved 14-year-old niece in a Palestinian attack, yet he is critical of his own government's role in the environment that led to her death, and has managed to make friends among the Palestinians.

These are people who have a serious amount of skin in this game, yet they have risen above their own knee-jerk reactions, thrown off the propaganda they've been exposed to, and made a hard choice to try to heal the wounds and bury the hatchet. Sure, Hamas' actions are evil - but can you see that your actions might be over the top if you were forced into the shit-end of an apartheid relationship and saw your children not having enough food, water, and education as a result? If you had decades of being demeaned and treated as second-class citizens, with the same for your kids, with no end in sight?

The point here is not about who's right, who's wrong, who's better, who's worse. It's about atrocities having been committed by both parties, and about stopping that shit for the good of all of us. It's easy to stand on the sidelines and engage in name-calling. It's hard to get on the battlefield and fight. But the hardest thing by far is to forgive and to try to move forward when some of the bodies on the field belong to your family. The world needs more people who choose the hardest road - I hope I never have to make that choice, but if I do, I sure as hell hope that I take the hardest path.

Responses like yours only serve to escalate conflicts, add fuel to a fire that's already out of control, and encourage propagandists and tyrants. And don't assume that you'd be so different from Hamas if you were put into the same situation. Desperation makes people do things they never thought they would or could, and I seriously doubt you're very much different from the rest of us in that regard.

Re:Heck, we probably already fund them

[Jeremiah Cornelius]

Over a decade ago, Yonatan Shapira, then an Israeli air force pilot, bravely confronted his top commander, Lt. General Dan Halutz, over what were euphemistically called “targeted assassinations.” Israeli warplanes regularly fired missiles at Hamas leaders in Gaza, also killing innocent civilians, some of them children.

Shapira asked General Halutz, What if a Hamas leader were located in Tel Aviv? Would you order our pilots to fire there, risking Israeli bystanders? Halutz said no.

So you value Israelis over Palestinians, Yonatan responded. Get someone else to fly your aircraft.

Saudi ?

[Anonymous Coward]

At least a country in middle east that have nothing to do with 911, of course...

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijackers_in_the_September_11_attacks

Mixed marlinspike refused to help them...

[dremspider]

Had to go somewhere. http://www.thoughtcrime.org/bl...

Re:Foreshadowing?

[digsbo]

Seriously. Bradley/Chelsea Manning was tortured to the point of having severe psychological problems (I am not saying being transgendered is a psychological problem, but I strongly question any psychiatrist who would not wait several years until after Manning had access to therapy to get over the trauma of isolation and torture to determine that Manning is indeed transgendered and not just showing signs of having been tortured). America is 100% on the hook for that. One of our own.

What, no panopticon?

[Andy_R]

"The report also notes the MOI's use of invasive surveillance targeted at political and religious dissidents."

So, arguably less evil than western governments, who use invasive surveillance targeted at absolutely everyone.

Re:What, no panopticon?

[Sabriel]

I worked that argument out with a simple question: "Self, if you were a random peasant with a vocal opinion on how things should be run differently, would you last longer in the West or in Saudi Arabia?"

That the NSA is knowingly supplying the torturer doesn't make the torturer less evil, any more than someone else doing the torturing makes the NSA less culpable for their knowing supply.

Re:Foreshadowing?

[cold fjord]

Seriously. Bradley/Chelsea Manning was tortured to the point of having severe psychological problems (I am not saying being transgendered is a psychological problem, but I strongly question any psychiatrist who would not wait several years until after Manning had access to therapy to get over the trauma of isolation and torture to determine that Manning is indeed transgendered and not just showing signs of having been tortured). America is 100% on the hook for that. One of our own.

Sorry, but your view is total nonsense that isn't connected to the facts. Bradley Manning apparently had mental health and temperament issues long before he was arrested, and I doubt they are resolved. They seem to have played a role in the actions that put him in prison.

WikiLeaks: Bradley Manning 'had history of suicidal thoughts'

...Manning had contemplated suicide six to eight months earlier after his arrest in Iraq. The evidence included a noose Manning had fashioned from a bedsheet while confined in Kuwait, and a written statement he made upon arrival at Quantico in July 2010 that he was "always planning and never acting" on suicidal impulses. .... Blenis, who spent more time with Manning, said Manning chose not to speak most of the time except for short, yes-or-no answers. He said Manning spurned his offers to play chess or work brain teasers by arrogantly responding, "They're a little below my level."

WikiLeaks: Private Bradley Manning sent superiors picture of himself dressed as a woman

Bradley Manning told his military superiors that he was emotionally unstable and sent them a picture of himself dressed as a woman but his warnings were never passed up a chaotic chain-of-command, a court heard on Friday. ...

Pte Manning's civilian defence lawyer, David Coombs, told the court martial hearing that his client had sent a distressed email to his immediate supervisor, Master Sergeant Paul Watkins. "He told [Watkins] he was suffering a gender identity disorder and in that email even had a picture of himself dressed as a woman."

In the email Pte Manning warned that his ability to work as an analyst of attacks by Shia militants in Iraq was being impaired by his emotional problems. .....

On December 12, the defendant apparently became enraged during a meeting and knocked over a chair while screaming at more senior soldiers.

Then on December 20, he allegedly flipped over a table during a counselling session, destroying the computer monitor that was sitting on top of it. Comrades had restrain him because they believed he was "going for a weapon rack", Mr Coombs told the court.

Bradley Manning, suspected source of Wikileaks documents, raged on his Facebook page

Mr Manning, who is openly homosexual, began his gloomy postings on January 12, saying: "Bradley Manning didn't want this fight. Too much to lose, too fast."

At the beginning of May, when he was serving at a US military base near Baghdad, he changed his status to: "Bradley Manning is now left with the sinking feeling that he doesn't have anything left."

Five days later he said he was "livid" after being "lectured by ex-boyfriend", then later the same day said he was "not a piece of equipment" and was "beyond frustrated with people and society at large".

His tagline on his personal page reads: "Take me for who I am, or face the consequences!"

Blowback 9/11: Why some young Saudis hate the USA

[Paul Fernhout]

It's called "Blowback". In order to prevent another 9/11/2001 or worse, it seems important to understand the motivations behind the first one (I'm using the year to distinguish from the US-supported 9/11/1973 coup in Chile). Like you, I also doubt the Saudi government had anything to do directly with funding that 9/11. In fact, that 9/11 seems more a protest against the Saudi government by Saudi citizens, but with the protest directed at the perceived source of funding for the Saudi government by the USA. Let's turn the political situation around hypothetically to try to understand the emotional aspect of it better, imagining what it might be like if the Saudi government was meddling directly in US affairs.

Here is a first cut at trying to understand the social/psychological dynamics of the situation from a different perspective. Imagine Saudi Arabia somehow was sending billions of dollars of campaign donations annually to the USA to keep in power an oppressive administration in the USA (passing laws forcing all US women to wear burkas, only allowing males with brown eyes to hold public office or get university degrees, and with capital punishment on suspicion of premarital sex or homosexuality). Also, imagine that there were millions of Saudi soldiers stationed in US states to ensure a flow of manufactured goods to Saudi Arabia despite strikes and other unrest in the USA and nearby countries. Also imagine that the Saudis were also funding Japanese people who, from fear of earthquakes and tsunamis in Japan, had moved to Canada, bought a lot of the land, claimed a right to govern all of Canada because some Japanese people had moved to Canada 10,000 years ago across the land bridge from Siberia, and then forced most non-Japanese Canadian citizens in all of Canada to flee to the USA and were killing non-Japanese Canadians who remained and resisted the Japanese occupation. If you are a US citizen in such a hypothetical world, would you be at all upset by such a situation whatever your eye color? Imagine that some very upset and frustrated young US citizens decide to protest this situation by attacking some big buildings in Saudi Arabia by hijacking airliners to show how unhappy they are with Saudi government foreign policy and to show how they felt their hopes and dreams for a good life in the USA had been thwarted by Saudi meddling in US government. Imagine this attack is then used by Saudi Arabia to justify invading Mexico (where some of the hypothetical American hijackers trained) and Brazil (because it is claimed by the Saudis to have WMDs that hypothetical young Americans might use against Saudis). Imagine the Saudis then start supplying "intelligence" to the US government from listening to all US telephone calls about specific US citizens who might be unhappy about the situation and perhaps plotting unrest in the USA or planning more blowback against the Saudis.

Now flip this scenario around and back to reality (US funding Saudis and Israel and US troops in the Middle East) and does the fact the almost all of the 9/11 hijackers were frustrated young Saudi men make more sense?

Soon after 9/11 I saw an analysis in a magazine (maybe the Atlantic or New Yorker) of why the hijackers did what they did. I have not seen many such articles since. The point made there was that these were mostly young men whose hopes for significant advancement in Saudi society had seemed thwarted and they were led to blame the USA for that, because the USA was propping up the Saudi regime and otherwise meddling in the Middle East. Of course, being promised eternal bliss in "paradise" for becoming murderers can not be ignored as a related aspect of religious fundamentalism (including outrage about the occupation of Palestine), so there are layers of complexity here for that and other reasons. The motivations of the hijackers themselves may also be somewhat different than the motivations of the organizers at higher levels.

See also:
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