Slashdot Mirror


FBI Studied How Much Drones Impact Your Privacy -- Then Marked It Secret

v3rgEz writes When federal agencies adopt new technology, they're required by law to do Privacy Impact Assessments, which is exactly what the FBI did regarding its secretive drone program. The PIAs are created to help the public and federal government assess what they're risking through the adoption of new technology. That part is a little trickier, since the FBI is refusing to release any of the PIA on its drone project, stating it needs to be kept, er, private to protect national security.

139 comments

  1. Transparency by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Any way you want to measure it, there's never been a more secretive administration in the US. And this from a president who promised "the most transparent administration in history".

    I apologize to everyone here for having voted for them a second time.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
    1. Re:Transparency by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I find this a little creepy ... the study to tell us how much they're violating our privacy and civil rights is now a secret.

      Which I'm going to have to assume they're pretty much doing everything they're not supposed to.

      When government will no longer tell you what they're doing, you have to assume they're doing the worst.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    2. Re:Transparency by msauve · · Score: 0

      Government is the people. This is a matter of regaining control from the evil overlords.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    3. Re:Transparency by Krishnoid · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No argument on how much is being held back, but maybe it just seems secretive because of how fluidly the press and people are now using the Internet as an information medium within the past 5-10 years. Classified information and state secrets that would have previously taken decades to come to light, seem to have details globally available within years or months, and basic awareness of their existence even sooner.

      As such, I continuously wonder if there were just as many secrets before, but it's just faster to find out about their existence nowadays, leading to the current administration appearing to have more of them. On the other hand, storage has increased alongside communication, so maybe more secrets are being kept (and correspondingly leaked).

    4. Re:Transparency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I look at the bright side.

      It's now VERY public knowledge that "For National Security" means "To Protect the Oligarchy", and the public is slowly coming to the realization of just who the oligarchy is.

      When you realize 70+% of your pay goes to the government, two miraculous things happen; real technological leaps forward requiring complex thinking by multiple people become impossible because those people are not motivated, and millions of baggers, shelf-stockers, shoe salesmen and others stop working as hard.

    5. Re:Transparency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not any more secretive. You are just aware of more of the things being kept secret now.

    6. Re:Transparency by hondo77 · · Score: 0

      Because Romney would have been so much better, right?

      --
      I live ze unknown. I love ze unknown. I am ze unknown.
    7. Re:Transparency by Patent+Lover · · Score: 1

      I voted for him the first time but decided to go green party the second time for realizing that he pretty much changed nothing from Bush.

    8. Re:Transparency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I only voted for him once, and now I regret it.

      To be fair, I'm having issues coming up with votes I don't regret to some extent.

    9. Re:Transparency by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 4, Informative

      > there's never been a more secretive administration in the US.

      Oh, my. I don't know if you're young, or if the easy access of the modern Internet has confused you about just how _little_ information was available to the general population about government programs 30 years ago or more. Do, please, look up the history of the Pentagon Papers.

    10. Re:Transparency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You think this began with THIS president? Then you're a moron who hasn't been paying actual attention, rather just politik. Dumbass.

    11. Re:Transparency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't worry I've always wanted to live in a dystopian society ala Blade Runner. Now we just need to wait for an American and Japanese company to merge and control every ressource on the planet.

    12. Re:Transparency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      GASP! Common Sense! You don't need a college degree for that! No prestige in common sense, ARRRRRRRGH!

    13. Re:Transparency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      More secretive when it comes to intelligence and national security, but pretty much everywhere else there have been huge strides in transparency. The amount of information available to the public today that wasn't when Obama was elected is staggering.

    14. Re:Transparency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The above is a constructive declaration that the racists were right all along.

    15. Re:Transparency by jeIIomizer · · Score: 1

      More secretive when it comes to intelligence and national security

      Which is by far the most important, given how easily exploitable it is.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    16. Re:Transparency by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      I apologize to everyone here for having voted for them a second time.

      Wait, why exactly did you vote the second time? It's not like we didn't know he was running a secretive administration before the election (indeed, he made a vote in favor of secrecy while he was still in the senate, before getting elected the first time).

      I can sort of understand saying that he was better than the alternatives and that's why you voted for him, but that's not something you would apologize for, really....

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    17. Re:Transparency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Leaks are Obama's worst nightmare. His policies are so at odds with the image that he wants to project, it's tragic.

    18. Re:Transparency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Damn, you should apologize! Obama was transparently terrible and representative of the status quo after the first time. My biggest political regret is believing that he could improve things and voting for him in 2008, after he had already started to show his true colors a little bit during his campaign.

    19. Re:Transparency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's no secret. By withholding this information, they are tacitly admitting that these drones greatly violate our privacy. They think they're slick censoring and classifying this stuff, but that very action speaks volumes.

    20. Re:Transparency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why do you think they are rushing into an automated military?

    21. Re:Transparency by Collective+0-0009 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Maybe? I don't think there is any chance the government could hide something like Area 51 in 2014. Watergate would have been revealed as quickly as Bridgegate. Secretes that would have previously taken decades to get out now take hours, days and weeks. Secrets that could have been squelched just a decade ago are now easily retrievable from computer storage and backups and surveillance and the ease of communicating not just messages, but evidence such as video, audio and pictures.

      Without a doubt, the governments of the past were able to keep more secrets. This is why the Arab Spring happened. Information is easily transferred and stored thanks to technology that has become mainstream in the past 5 - 10 - 15 years.

      --
      I finally updated my sig, but now it's lame.
    22. Re:Transparency by phantomfive · · Score: 2

      The real problem was, if you didn't vote for Obama, you'd be voting for the sockpuppets the GOP put up against him.

      Are there only two parties?

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    23. Re:Transparency by real+gumby · · Score: 1

      Any way you want to measure it, there's never been a more secretive administration in the US. And this from a president who promised "the most transparent administration in history".

      When they said “most transparent” they were apparently talking about magnitude, not sign.

    24. Re: Transparency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      (And fighting tooth and nail at every opportunity to outlaw any means the citizens have to resist.)

    25. Re:Transparency by MaskedSlacker · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Compare Ellsberg to Snowden. Obama is worse than Nixon.

    26. Re:Transparency by jeIIomizer · · Score: 2

      Nope. If you did any research on him whatsoever, you would have known he was a scumbag even before his first term.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    27. Re: Transparency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because after election, he found out exactly what happened to JFK. Hence, higher defense budgets, because the men behind the curtains have the power. They are pretty good at replacing presidents...

    28. Re:Transparency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Haha, it's a math joke! Absolute value! So funny!

    29. Re:Transparency by msk · · Score: 1

      I voted for Kodos.

    30. Re: Transparency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Explain the 70% thing

    31. Re: Transparency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't be so obtuse

    32. Re:Transparency by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Vote for good overlords...

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    33. Re: Transparency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When you are trying to spread lies, you have to make them outrageous but still believable.

    34. Re:Transparency by phantomfive · · Score: 2

      I honestly would expect nothing less.......if this study is worth anything, it is going to discuss classified programs in detail, and as such, falls in the category of classified.

      Now, whether anything at all should be classified is another question, but if anything should, then a study that discusses in detail classified programs should also be.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    35. Re:Transparency by dnavid · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Any way you want to measure it, there's never been a more secretive administration in the US.

      On what basis do you judge that? On the fact that in the past, you didn't hear about all the things the government kept secret?

      Both the initial drone strike program and the NSA surveillance programs were initially authorized and then kept secret during the Bush administration. The difference between then and now is not that this administration has kept them secret, but that they were discovered during this administration. What seems to be different is that during this administration more secret programs are coming to light rather than they are keeping significantly more secrets.

      I often wonder how it is people forget that the Reagan administration included such gems as the Iran-Contra illegal arms sales and a huge number of federal investigations leading to indictment by executive officials (including James Watt, the former Secretary of the Interior), Bill Clinton was actually impeached by Congress (but not convicted), and George W. Bush started a war with Iraq costing thousands of American lives based on information we now know the administration knew was highly questionable. Even in the current far more partisan atmosphere far more Reagan officials were actually indicted or convicted of actual federal crimes, and last I checked the current administration hasn't started any questionable wars leading to thousands of casualties. Not to excuse any misconduct on the part of the current administration, but I think its an exaggeration to say this administration is objectively more secretive or less competent. It certainly isn't objectively more criminal.

      Anyone remember Dick Cheney once attempted to claim simultaneously that as a member of the executive branch (being the Vice President) that he could claim executive immunity and refuse to disclose information to Congress, but also that as a member of the Senate (being the Constitutional President of the Senate by virtue of being the Vice President) the rules that apply to executive officers (including the President) when it came to security oversight did not apply to him? That's the standard upon which to judge the degree to which the current administration is "not transparent." Its a high hurdle.

    36. Re:Transparency by Nephandus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Nope, just the one circus. The two rings are part of the same show.

      --
      "A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head."
    37. Re:Transparency by Fnord666 · · Score: 1

      I voted for Kodos.

      I voted for Cthulhu. Why settle for a lesser evil?

      --
      'The tyrant will always find pretext for his tyranny.' - Aesop's Fables
    38. Re:Transparency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      44 years old here. He's most assuredly correct. Just think about your own example. Really, really think about it.

    39. Re:Transparency by bayankaran · · Score: 1

      What most of us - including the politicos - forget is the fact that the "idea of being the POTUS" is attractive, not actually "being the POTUS."
      BO was sure he is going to create history. And he did create history being the first black prez and all that. But then the actual job sucks. I have no idea how sane people willingly fight for this!
      Still its better the illusion remains. Else the top decision makers will be much more worse than what we have now.

      --
      Tat Tvam Asi
    40. Re:Transparency by Panoptes · · Score: 1

      "The amount of information available to the public today that wasn't when Obama was elected is staggering."

      Never confuse quantity with quality.

    41. Re: Transparency by erikkemperman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      (And fighting tooth and nail at every opportunity to outlaw any means the citizens have to resist.)

      Oddly enough, some of the staunchest defenders of the second amendment claim to do so on the principle that an armed populace can keep a government in check -- and overthrow them by force if need be -- and yet those same people seem some of the least likely candidates to criticize the government for all these bogus measures and information black-outs in the name of "national security".

      This instance is particularly shocking. They are required to make privacy assessments, presumably as a remnant of more enlightened times when the government still operated on the assumption that at least *some* members of the public are well-meaning, mostly harmless citizens. Times in which the folks who wrote up this requirement didn't even think, apparently, to include a demand that the results be made public.

      And now they claim that the results of that assessment must be kept secret. For your own good, honestly. Well, that fact in itself should tell you all you need to know.

      --
      Gosh, thanks. That must be why the other ships call me Meatfucker -- GCU Grey Area (Eccentric)
    42. Re:Transparency by davester666 · · Score: 1

      It is totally transparent. You can't see what it is doing at all.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    43. Re:Transparency by Concerned+Onlooker · · Score: 2

      "You think this began with THIS president?"

      No, but many of us were hoping it would at least be reduced by this president. I am finally getting it through my head that Romney or Obama would have both basically done the same job of letting our rights slide down the tubes. This goes for any Democrat or Republican candidate. As long as Americans are fooled into not-voting or into voting for either of the two big parties nothing will change.

      --
      http://www.rootstrikers.org/
    44. Re: Transparency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OK.
      70 per cent means 70 out of 100 - so imagine your pay was $100, he's saying $70 is taken.

      Perhaps it's closer to 60, but 70 is more accurate than 0 or 100. It doesn't matter though since having "the state" grow to the point where it sucks half of someones productive output is a problem. And "the state" tends to grow until it suffocates the host, so map out how that's been trending over the last century.

      So look at the total of all taxes you pay, including sales and property taxes, and bear in mind that the currency you do have can be inflated away.

    45. Re: Transparency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a bit late and I've been working for myself for long enough I don't remember all the deductions, but it goes something like this:
      You have an employer who wants to trade money for work from an employee. Before he can give the employee that money, he has to pay federal taxes for having the employee. Then the employer withholds (diverts) additional money for Federal, state and local taxes, which vary depending on location and other factors. Once the employee gets the remains of his check, the money needs to be spent on something. So he buys a car or a tank of gas or a candy bar. Naturally, there are overt taxes on all these things (sales tax) hidden taxes on some (look up the actual cost of a gallon of gas pre-tax) and taxes we don't really call taxes, but recurring "fees" like registration on a new car. Naturally there are additional taxes for that too. If you were to work out the effects of this compound taxation, you could easily determine that most (more than half) of your money went to taxes of some form. While a statement like "70+% of your pay goes to the government" is not necessarily factual, there may be some merit in the idea that if people really understood how much of their money was re- (or pre-) appropriated by our government they would be less enthusiastic about working hard to generate more taxable income.

    46. Re:Transparency by znrt · · Score: 1

      The real problem was, if you didn't vote for Obama, you'd be voting for the sockpuppets the GOP put up against him. That's the reason they lost, and Obama won, and thank goodness. Imagine where we'd be if Palin were president.

      it would be the same. how is obama not a sockpuppet? it wouldn't make a difference if you had a bread toaster for president. otherwise you wouldn't be allowed to vote for a president.

    47. Re:Transparency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whatever you say, Mormon nutjob.

    48. Re: Transparency by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      I'm not right wing, but I have to call you out on that. Most extreme right-wingers that I know - the kind that likes to talk about right to keep and bear arms as "means to fight back against a tyrannical government" - are actually pretty skeptical of PATRIOT Act, NSA surveillance, and all that stuff. Notice how a lot of recent attacks on the NSA came from Tea Party.

    49. Re: Transparency by erikkemperman · · Score: 1

      I'm not right wing, but I have to call you out on that. Most extreme right-wingers that I know - the kind that likes to talk about right to keep and bear arms as "means to fight back against a tyrannical government" - are actually pretty skeptical of PATRIOT Act, NSA surveillance, and all that stuff. Notice how a lot of recent attacks on the NSA came from Tea Party.

      Actually I haven't said anything about left- or right-wing, though I suppose that generally speaking the need for the second amendment is felt more strongly by the right-wing. And the need to rid society of all those firearms is perhaps more strongly felt by the left. But, correct me if I am wrong, isn't the Tea Party a minority amongst right-wingers? And by extension, among pro-gun activists?

      From the outside, the Ds and Rs don't actually seem all that different, and it would appear that they somehow agree on precisely those issues that are unpopular with both of their supporters. E.g., PATRIOT, domestic NSA transgressions, copyright and patent legislation, and the better part of the US foreign policy come to mind.

      --
      Gosh, thanks. That must be why the other ships call me Meatfucker -- GCU Grey Area (Eccentric)
    50. Re: Transparency by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Tea Party is a minority among right-wingers, but it's also the one that is most strongly pro-gun, and also the one that's most consistently emphasizing the "right to armed uprising". Mainstream Republicans are rather averse to such rhetoric (the politicians are another matter when they're pandering to electorate - they know that being seen as "pro-gun" will win them some fringe votes, but won't spook the mainstream enough to cost them more, especially when the other option is a Democrat).

    51. Re:Transparency by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      Imagine where we'd be if Palin were president.

      Yeah, or that shining example of progressive intellectuual integrity, John Edwards.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    52. Re:Transparency by Savage-Rabbit · · Score: 2

      Compare Ellsberg to Snowden. Obama is worse than Nixon.

      Nixon presided over the slaughter that was Vietnam which included the Phoenix program of targeted killings and torture of suspected communists. Phoenix prisoners were subjected to rape, gang rape and they were murdered using some pretty bestial methods that included starvation and pounding dowels through prisoners heads. So even if you factor in drone assassinations and the torture allegation against them neither Obama nor GWB Jr can hold a candle to Nixon.

      --
      Only to idiots, are orders laws.
      -- Henning von Tresckow
    53. Re:Transparency by JonathanR · · Score: 2

      This was never the case, even when the ink on the declaration of independence was still wet.

      How many of "the people" were involved in these decisions?

    54. Re: Transparency by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      The Tea Party didn't become "skeptical of PATRIOT Act, NSA surveillance, and all that stuff" until January of 2009. For some reason, having nothing to do with the color of the skin of the guy in the White House, I'm certain.

      But the timing is a little suspect, you must admit.

      Maybe you can find an example of a Tea Party person showing opposition to those programs prior to 2009. I tried and I could not.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    55. Re:Transparency by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Well, you see, there's people and then there's people. Know what I mean?

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    56. Re:Transparency by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

      That's an interesting question you bring up. Are there more secrets today or are we finding out about them faster?

      Well, one measure is the number of work-product documents of the Executive and Congressional branches that are being classified as secret. And it appears that the number is growing unbelievably fast. In 1996, there were about 5 million documents classified by the Federal Government. By 2006, the number had jumped to about 23 million. By 2009 it had gotten to 54 million and by 2011, we were at 92 million documents classified. Remember, these aren't super-secret nuclear codes or the plans to the underground bunker under the White House. We're talking about simple work product documents. Stuff like EPA regulations. FDA regulations. The minutes from meetings discussing trade agreements. Actual laws that we're not allowed to know about, but must obey. And this is not counting the documents that were marked secret decades ago, whose classification is supposed to sunset but has been extended further into the future, protecting us from knowing what our government is doing.

      No, I'm pretty sure our government has become a hell of a lot more secretive.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/w/ind...

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    57. Re:Transparency by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

      Well, you know, maybe. Considering the nearly incoherent warlike rantings we're getting from John McCain, and the fact that his running mate was a half-bright weathergirl who might have had brain damage from sniffing too much nail polish, we probably made out OK in 2008.

      But I'm not so sure any more that boring Mitt Romney would have been much worse than the guy I voted for in 2012. At least when Mitt Romney lies, he looks a little embarrassed and his throat sounds a little tight and he pulls the sides of his eyes back. The press would have caught on to those tells and torn him apart (which is good for keeping them honest). Obama lies smoother than any president I've seen since Reagan. Clinton was also a very good liar, but not in the league of Reagan or Obama.

      Or maybe it's me. It's easier to miss lies when you're hearing what you want to hear. Maybe I didn't look for Obama's tells because he was saying all the things I wanted to hear. For example, look how the Tea Party is taking to Ted Cruz. Now go listen to one of his interviews without the picture. Now listen again with the video. The guy is phonier than a 6'2" hooker on Halsted St. after midnight. If Ted Cruz was an insurance salesman in Topeka trying to sell a policy, those same Tea Party types would throw his ass out in a second. Especially the women, who are better at catching out lies.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    58. Re: Transparency by anegg · · Score: 2

      I'm sympathetic to some of the ideals of the Tea Party. I believe that the 2nd amendment describes a pre-existing individual right to keep and bear arms for private defense as well as to maintain the security of a free state. I tend to vote conservative. I was aghast at some of the provisions of the Patriot Act and other similar legislation when they were proposed and stunned that they were voted into law.

      I am certainly a person, although you may claim that I'm not a "true Tea Party person" because I'm not rabidly foaming at the mouth in support of the entire platform. I was opposed to those programs well before 2009.

      I think actual people's beliefs are more nuanced than the overly broad "left wing", "right wing" labels would suggest, and that there are a number of "right wing" folks who are very concerned about privacy and freedom, not willing to trade it away for an illusive security benefit.

    59. Re:Transparency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's bad enough that we get these religious cavemen in charge of the country, but there is no way in hell I would ever allow a Mormon piece of shit to run MY country.

    60. Re:Transparency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You've got to be careful about interpreting words used by politicians.

      "Most transparent", in this case, obviously means you can't see a thing...

    61. Re:Transparency by strikethree · · Score: 1

      I apologize to everyone here for having voted for them a second time.

      No need to apologize. All of this would have happened no matter who you voted for. There might have been a slightly different texture to the chains that are being foisted upon us, but the chains were coming no matter what.

      The public face changes but the identity remains unchanged. The US Government is owned and does the bidding of a small group of people... and they are VERY small minded and selfish people with grandiose plans.

      --
      "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
    62. Re: Transparency by strikethree · · Score: 1

      Oddly enough, some of the staunchest defenders of the second amendment claim to do so on the principle that an armed populace can keep a government in check -- and overthrow them by force if need be -- and yet those same people seem some of the least likely candidates to criticize the government for all these bogus measures and information black-outs in the name of "national security".

      I am unsure what you are implying here... Are you trying to say that those who demand gun control are the ones most likely to rebel against authority? Seems kind of like an antelope yelling at a leopard. Am I missing something here?

      --
      "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
    63. Re: Transparency by erikkemperman · · Score: 1

      Are you trying to say that those who demand gun control are the ones most likely to rebel against authority?

      Well, I don't think anyone is likely to rebel against the US government -- not by force anyway, given that the latter is armed to the teeth. 1.6 billion bullets for DHS, was it?

      But not everybody is claiming that the possibility of armed rebellion (preposterous though it may be) makes for a valid argument in support of the second amendment.

      --
      Gosh, thanks. That must be why the other ships call me Meatfucker -- GCU Grey Area (Eccentric)
    64. Re:Transparency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Abu Ghraib was a light security holding prison. What do you think has occured and is still occurring in the CIA's blackwater prisons? That's some properly Nixonian shit right there.

    65. Re:Transparency by greenbird · · Score: 2

      Maybe? I don't think there is any chance the government could hide something like Area 51 in 2014. Watergate would have been revealed as quickly as Bridgegate. Secretes that would have previously taken decades to get out now take hours, days and weeks. Secrets that could have been squelched just a decade ago are now easily retrievable from computer storage and backups and surveillance and the ease of communicating not just messages, but evidence such as video, audio and pictures.

      Without a doubt, the governments of the past were able to keep more secrets. This is why the Arab Spring happened. Information is easily transferred and stored thanks to technology that has become mainstream in the past 5 - 10 - 15 years.

      This is just plain wrong. Those same technologies that you mention (and more) allow governments to collect and maintain orders of magnitude more information on individuals then in the past. There are more leaks because the amount of secrets has increased orders of magnitude. And the ratio is severely skewed towards the secrets rather than the leaks.

      Just 20 years ago it took a large number of man hours and money to monitor one individual to the level they can monitor whole populations now. You would have a dozen or more people just to follow them around determining their location. You would have to bug every phone they used. The conversations recorded and each one manually listened to for pertinent information. And even with all that effort you still wouldn't have the level of information they collect now.

      --
      Who is John Galt?
    66. Re:Transparency by greenbird · · Score: 1

      Obama is worse than Nixon.

      I would guess only by virtue of the technology available rather than any moral dichotomies. If Nixon had the tools available today he likely would have been right up there with Obama.

      --
      Who is John Galt?
    67. Re:Transparency by greenbird · · Score: 1

      The difference between then and now is not that this administration has kept them secret, but that they were discovered during this administration. What seems to be different is that during this administration more secret programs are coming to light rather than they are keeping significantly more secrets.

      That's just plain bullshit. Obama has done more to penalize and intimate anyone who dares to disclose what he doesn't want disclosed than any past administration.

      Even in the current far more partisan atmosphere far more Reagan officials were actually indicted or convicted of actual federal crimes, and last I checked the current administration hasn't started any questionable wars leading to thousands of casualties. Not to excuse any misconduct on the part of the current administration, but I think its an exaggeration to say this administration is objectively more secretive or less competent. It certainly isn't objectively more criminal.

      That's because anyone who has leaked information that Obama doesn't want leaked, even illegal government activities, has been at best harassed to the point they have no way to make a living and at worse and in most cases prosecuted and thrown in jail. And the officials that actually committed the illegal activities exposed are not even investigated much less prosecuted. So that there have been less prosecutions has nothing to do with less illegal activity.

      --
      Who is John Galt?
    68. Re:Transparency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > On what basis do you judge that?

      On the basis of using charges under the Espionage Act more than all other presidents combined.

      I don't think the republicans would have done any better - their party's rhetoric is anti-whistleblower for anything other than "wasting" money.
      But the democrats should have done better because their party's rhetoric is generally pro-whistleblower for all issues.

    69. Re: Transparency by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      I do know a few right-wingers who discussed the subject even back in Bush days, long before Obama. For example, Matthew Bracken, who wrote "Enemies Foreign and Domestic" (it's basically a right-wing propaganda piece, with central theme being the govt cracking down on gun owners, but it also directly touches on surveillance and police militarization, and the use of terrorism as a pretext to curtail civil liberties; as I recall, it specifically mentions the PATRIOT Act). That book was written in 2003, back when Bush's reign was seen as uncontested, so effectively it targeted that administration.

      You can also look at the Pauls. Say what you like about them, but they have been very consistent in arguing against all these things, and Rand at least counts himself as Tea Party affiliated (though many people in that movement would probably dislike him).

      OTOH, yes, you also have large quantities of "I'm not racist, but why is he black?" guys there too, for whom it's just the convenient excuse of the day. But they're not all there is to it.

    70. Re: Transparency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Considering the Tea Party didn't exist prior to 2009, that's quite a challenge you've given - to find evidence that can't exist.

      Unless you believe Ron Paul in his claims that he founded the Tea Party movement, in which case I can direct you to his vote against the PATRIOT Act back in 2001.

    71. Re:Transparency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What part of that semi-coherent rant is racist?
      Was it the word 'ignorant'?
      Maybe it was 'no-information voter'?
      Perhaps the word 'problem'?

      Or just maybe, you're the type of prejudiced idiot that thinks any criticism of a black man is "racism"?

    72. Re: Transparency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The governments in the US (all levels) currently brings in about $5.6 trillion in revenue and spend $6.2 trillion. In 2012 the total household income was $13.4 trillion to cover theses costs. Businesses have incomes and taxes as well, but if they aren't passing their costs onto customers (ultimately households), then they run out of money and go bankrupt. If you do the math, it works out to them taking 41.8% of income and signing you up for a loan for another 4.5% of your income. It's really rough math considering the numbers are from different years, but it's a start.

    73. Re: Transparency by Frobnicator · · Score: 1

      Well, I don't think anyone is likely to rebel against the US government -- not by force anyway, given that the latter is armed to the teeth. 1.6 billion bullets for DHS, was it?vBut not everybody is claiming that the possibility of armed rebellion (preposterous though it may be) makes for a valid argument in support of the second amendment.

      Well, we could always quote someone from the previous administration:

      "The cost of one bullet, if the [...] people take it on themselves, is substantially less than [the cost of a war]." -- White House press secretary Ari Fleischer 1 Oct 2002.

      At the time they were talking about an overthrow of Iraq. It applies well to the US as well.

      --
      //TODO: Think of witty sig statement
    74. Re:Transparency by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      More secretive when it comes to intelligence and national security, but pretty much everywhere else there have been huge strides in transparency.

      Absolutely not true. Do you know that the biggest growth area for classified documents is from the regulatory agencies? These are the agencies creating the laws we have to follow, but now they're classifying their work product for some strange reason.

      Also congress. For example, why would the House Rules Committee have to classify thousands of documents? Or the House Commerce Committee?

      I've cited the vast increase in the amount of government documents classified. Can you cite anything - anything at all - that shows there have been "huge strides in transparency" since Obama was elected.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    75. Re:Transparency by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      But it's not even quantity. I would love to know what the GP is talking about when he claims there is now new information available for any part of government since Obama was elected. It's just not true.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    76. Re:Transparency by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Who running for president is not a scumbag? You have to be a scumbag to want to be president.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    77. Re:Transparency by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      On what basis do you judge that? On the fact that in the past, you didn't hear about all the things the government kept secret?

      I've posted links to data and graphs of the number of documents classified by the US government by year.

      When you see the graph, you will never again need to ask that question.

      Here, I'll do it again just for you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      And, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/ind...

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    78. Re:Transparency by Sciath · · Score: 1

      DITTO.

      --
      "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
    79. Re: Transparency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But not everybody is claiming that the possibility of armed rebellion (preposterous though it may be)

      Perhaps you should get to know more members of the military, and even police officers. Many of these people are strong supporters of the 2nd Amendment. Quite a few books on safe firearms ownership and use are written by current or former police officers. Further, many of these people are quite well aware they swear oaths to uphold the Constitution, not any particular government. Many also understand that the Nuremberg Precedent applies to them, under the 9th Amendment, creating an individual and personal responsibility.

      The possibility of successful rebellion is no more far fetched today than it was in 1776, and certainly not preposterous. You might also consider that George Washington was a former military officer before becoming a rebel.

      People in these groups generally aren't allowed to speak up in public against the government. That doesn't prevent them from having brains that work and eyes that see. You might also consider the fact that people who deal in violence for a living might be very cautious about resorting to it. They often have a much better understanding of the potential consequences of their actions than the average person in our society, insulated from some of the more unpleasant aspects of reality. Those who study history are particularly likely to be very hesitant to start anything. Few revolutions make for happy stories. Sometimes violence is necessary, even the best option, but that does not necessarily mean it is a good option for everyone involved. Hopefully that distinction is not over your head.

    80. Re:Transparency by sound+vision · · Score: 1

      Almost any relevant law, such as the FOIA, has exceptions carved out for "national security". Those were put in as escape clauses, so that all the government has to do is say those two magic words and they escape providing any information they don't want you to have. In many cases where that excuse is used there is no security concern at all, except the job security of government officials.

    81. Re: Transparency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm thinking what they are really hiding are the potential scenarios or uses that the FBI came up with that would basically cause a shit-show.

      Don't want to give out any ideas.

    82. Re:Transparency by dnavid · · Score: 1

      On what basis do you judge that? On the fact that in the past, you didn't hear about all the things the government kept secret?

      I've posted links to data and graphs of the number of documents classified by the US government by year.

      When you see the graph, you will never again need to ask that question.

      Here, I'll do it again just for you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      And, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/ind...

      You are misusing that information. The graph you link to is the derivative classification activity graph. It doesn't show classification events. It shows classified document *usage*. Basically, that graph is the number of times a previously classified document was reused somewhere else. Quote from the report: "Derivative classification is the act of incorporating, paraphrasing, restating, or generating in new form information that is already classified."

      The actual graph of documents classified is on page 5 of the same report (page nine of the PDF), which is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/ind.... That graph shows that original classification events (documents classified) peaked in recent times in 2004 during the Bush administration (they were even higher during the Reagan administration), and in 2011 were down 64% from that peak (127,072 vs 351,150).

    83. Re: Transparency by beastofburdon · · Score: 1

      Yes actual views are much more nuanced. That is the reason why we only have two major parties, and why they are made to appear so widely different. They create the illusion of "us and them" in order to divide the population and pit them against each other. That leaves them terrified that the other party will get their person into office so that they are afraid to attempt to vote for any third party.

      There is so much theater that we have a hard time realizing that the two parties are really just two faces of the same party. This is how they always stay in power, and why they do not flinch when taking away our rights.

    84. Re:Transparency by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Interesting, but let's look at another measure: the length of classification. The previous chart seems to indicate that the length of time these documents are being classified for is increasing.

      Also, the declassification procedures are being fought by the administration at a very high level. Documents that should have become classified are becoming re-classified, which would not show up on your chart of "original classification activity".

      Add in the level of whistleblower prosecutions and executive work product that is simple outside of the system via private emails, texts and "crashed hard drives", and you get a picture of a very secretive administration. What do you think?

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    85. Re:Transparency by dnavid · · Score: 1

      Interesting, but let's look at another measure: the length of classification. The previous chart seems to indicate that the length of time these documents are being classified for is increasing.

      Also, the declassification procedures are being fought by the administration at a very high level. Documents that should have become classified are becoming re-classified, which would not show up on your chart of "original classification activity".

      Add in the level of whistleblower prosecutions and executive work product that is simple outside of the system via private emails, texts and "crashed hard drives", and you get a picture of a very secretive administration. What do you think?

      I think the degree to which the current administration aggressively attempts to prosecute whistleblowers is significantly higher than in previous administrations, but that's a subjective opinion of mine (that others share, of course). The question is whether its obviously more secretive, and its struggles with journalists notwithstanding I'm not sure that's objectively true.

      Where I would agree is that for an administration that campaigned on transparency, it certainly does not meet the higher expectations that claim deserves.

      On the subject of "crashed hard drives" I've seen a lot of general incompetence both in the private and public sector. So much so its very difficult to distinguish incompetence from malfeasance, because incompetence is so common. Its like the cable repair guy trying to claim as an alibi for a crime that he was several hours late getting to the alleged crime scene. On the one hand, that would be convenient. On the other hand, on any other day it would probably also be expected.

  2. Right .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    If they have nothing to fear from the reports content then they should have nothing to hide.

  3. 4 Out of 5 Dentists Agree; by flyneye · · Score: 1

    The FBI isn't yet aware of the NSAs little brown submarine drones that listen in on FBI scuttlebutt in the loo.
    Periscope UP! Only assholes in here captain.

    --
    *Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
  4. Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why classify the report? EVERYONE KNOWS what it contains.

    1. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, and knowing what is in a classified document is now a crime! Therefor, we are all criminals, just like they had planned.

      So, if you want a (slightly) less severe torture, it is recommended that you report immediately to your local concentration camp.

    2. Re:Why? by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Who gets extra "privacy" from drone use?
      The main fear is US state based "Ag-gag" anti-whistleblower laws eg Animal and Ecological Terrorism Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... getting media attention.
      The price of getting videos showing animal cruelty is dropping.
      The price of getting videos showing hydraulic fracturing or "fracking" pollution dropping.
      A lot of US states are trying to use laws like: 'Commerce Protection Act", "an act relating to agricultural facility fraud", "Livestock Operation Interference Act", "Animal and Ecological Terrorism Act", "Farm Animal and Research Facilities Protection Act", “visual or audio experience occurring at [an] animal facility.”
      Just talking about federal law enforcement views around drones, HD media, size of drones, drone costs could alert national and state media to local stories as filler.
      The best way out for the FBI is to redact all, no story, no media interest, no local press on their states expanding ag gag laws.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  5. Let's take a page from their book... by SeaFox · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I guess the contents of the report show that their drone programs impacts privacy in ways that violate the law. So their drone program needs to be stopped.

    What's that, FBI? It doesn't? Well then why don't you release the report, without any omitted material or redacting.
    I mean, you say the program is working within the correct boundaries. You should have nothing to hide if you're not doing anything wrong.

    1. Re:Let's take a page from their book... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't worry. You can trust them. They will only stop us.

    2. Re:Let's take a page from their book... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Um, I'm sorry to tell you but the TSA is supported by both parties now. The Democrats are the Republicans but slightly less blatant and evil. So, no, criticizing terrible Democrats has nothing to do with supporting terrible Republicans. You may be shocked to learn that a huge number of critics of the current crop of Democrats are on the left, and previously considered Democrats as worth a vote, or the lesser of two evils.

    3. Re:Let's take a page from their book... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I strongly doubt he is defending it as opposed to throwing their argument right back at them.
      "You cannot complain about us peeking through your windows at night and sometimes feeling up your children. You have nothing to hide if you are not doing anything wrong!"
      "You wish to hide the results of your reports about illegally peeking through our windows at night and sometimes feeling up our children? Why? Don't 'You have nothing to hide if you are not doing anything wrong'?"

    4. Re:Let's take a page from their book... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh my! Are you a terrorist or a spy for suggesting that we leak properly classified secret information?
      Let's have a look into your file and see exactly what kind of deviant are you. I suspect child pornography will be appearing on your computer any moment now - just in time for your you to answer your door...

  6. Goodbye USA! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't care anymore. I've already renounced my US citizenship and moved away. I suggest the rest of you do the same before it gets worse.

    1. Re:Goodbye USA! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I do not have the WEALTH, EDUCATION or PEDIGREE to live elsewhere on the planet. It's my country because no one else will take me.

  7. If they target you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It might be time to plant your cell phone on your worst enemy available.

    Better give them your new car too.

    1. Re:If they target you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Calling Mr. Catfish!

  8. Sometimes... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...I think the government hides things, not from foreign threats, but from the internal threat of average Jane and Joe Schmoe flipping out if the government actually admitted their rights don't mean shit.

    1. Re:Sometimes... by jeIIomizer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Only sometimes? And since when do average Jane and Joe Schmoe care about the constitution or fundamental liberties? Most people seem to want safety above all else, despite pretending to want freedom.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    2. Re:Sometimes... by Collective+0-0009 · · Score: 1

      You are very correct. Look at personality types to confirm this. How many people want to open a business? How many just want a steady job? How many people are more than willing to follow along after a strong personality?

      The fact is that humans are born to seek safety. In fact all living beings are programmed that way. And if you think following another, or following the majority is the safest route, there is a good chance that's whats going to happen.

      --
      I finally updated my sig, but now it's lame.
    3. Re:Sometimes... by jeIIomizer · · Score: 1

      The fact is that humans are born to seek safety. In fact all living beings are programmed that way.

      That really doesn't explain why some people are principled enough to reject safety in favor of freedom. And most of the 'risk' is vague or exaggerated in the case of terrorism anyway. There is really no direct threat or huge army coming to murder us, so it doesn't even mean sense. That's what makes it even more baffling.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    4. Re:Sometimes... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is really no direct threat or huge army coming to murder us, so it doesn't even mean sense. That's what makes it even more baffling.

      If "it doesn't even make sense" were a criterion, 90% of the economy would be dead. A populace brainwashed into craving nonsense as an integral and indispensible part of its daily life of course can also be brainwashed into fearing nonsense as an integral indispensible part of its daily life.

      Greedmongering and fearmongering are equally effective on people unfit for leading a rational self-determined life.

    5. Re:Sometimes... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Steady Job has little to do with security vs freedom, and everything to do with "benefits". In a way, it's ambition.
      They're quite rare nowadays but used to be that staying many years at your job meant you got lots of good stuff. Retirement, bonuses, pay going up and up... The alternative in many cases is to be minimally paid as "the new guy", with nothing to show for it when you finally retire, at job after job after job.

      Think of it this way: In the old days, an ambitious man would wish to become a landed knight, and move up from there. Nowadays the company standard is "Thanks for your hard work, Squire. Your services are no longer required, off you go" followed by "Well we could use someone of your skillset and experience... alright we'll make you a Squire and start your training" alternating over and over.

    6. Re:Sometimes... by jbo5112 · · Score: 1

      I want a steady job instead of opening a business because I want to spend my time writing software instead of engaging in government bureaucracy, handling the first tier of customer support and marketing things to customers.

  9. Ask a contractor ... by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

    ... to get the PIA for you.

    --
    It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
  10. Think About It by JimSadler · · Score: 0

    At a time in at which criminals felt that cell phones were safe to use in committing their crime planning it caused a lot of them to end up in prison. As it became more apparent that cell phones were being used to catch criminals they switched tactics. So now we may have drones that are quite small and can plant a microphone in the plants near a porch where people are thought to be conspiring to commit crimes or organize terror attacks. Would you want them to really believe that such a technology could be applied to them at this time or perhaps let them think that such a technology is so expensive and rare that only much more important criminals were being watched? Nobody wants the government swimming in their soup bowl but on the other hand we may depend upon that type of law enforcement more than we know. It is not a simple issue and even beyond the Constitution is the fact that the government has a duty to persist over time to keep that constitution alive as well as the american people.

    1. Re:Think About It by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Keeping the constitution alive and the american people AS PEOPLE are parts of that duty though.
      Persisting at the cost of the other two, well that's sorta doing it quite wrong.

  11. I'd give you an opinion by Coditor · · Score: 2

    but I classified it as top secret.

  12. Key term: "Your Privacy" by ebonum · · Score: 1

    This is not an issue. It is protecting their privacy that matters.

  13. Wait a second by s.petry · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You should really qualify "The Press" in these types of statements. The Press could be ABC, NBC, CBS, BBC, and many more who today claimed an 82 year old man shot a pregnant woman as a headline, when the person was both not pregnant and also committing armed robbery for at least the 2nd time against the same 82 year old man who was beaten as well as robbed. The Press could be the same crew that edited audio to make it look like a guy on neighborhood watch simply claimed to the Police that he was following a Black guy where the full audio shows he is responding to a 9/11 operator asking what race he believes the suspect was. The same media claimed that that guy was White when he's Hispanic, and portrayed the victim in a 7 year old picture to make it appear like the guy shot a little kid instead of a 6'1" nearly legal adult. All to sway public opinion (that one was for numerous purposes). The same media that interrupted a Congresswoman discussing the NSA for "breaking news" that Justin Beiber was arrested, and ensured that a twerk skank received more air time than dialogue about numerous political issues.

    The media we normally see and hear IS on the same team as the government, make no mistake.

    As such, I continuously wonder if there were just as many secrets before, but it's just faster to find out about their existence nowadays

    To some extent I agree that this, but up until 20 years ago we had some real journalism. Nation wide every station lost their "investigative reporters" within the same couple years, and that was the end of any real journalism with any of the 3 letter media outlets.

    With rare exceptions today, the only thing that get air time is propaganda.

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    1. Re:Wait a second by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      nearly legal adult

      "Nearly legal adult"? Is that like "nearly pregnant"?

      Let me suggest that if you bang a thirteen year old girl and tell the judge, "But she looked like a nearly legal adult" that you might have some explaining to do.

      And if you say you were following her down an alley because she was wearing a hoodie, you might be considered sort of a creep.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    2. Re:Wait a second by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But if you bang a 17 year-old, you'll probably be fine. Because she's nearly a legal adult.

      Bizarre, ain't it?

    3. Re:Wait a second by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      But if you bang a 17 year-old, you'll probably be fine. Because she's nearly a legal adult.

      You won't probably be fine in Arizona, California, Delaware, Idaho, North Dakota, Oregon, Tennessee, Utah, Virginia, Wisconsin,

      In Florida, you can bang an eight year-old, but only if she's really hot.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    4. Re:Wait a second by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      >With rare exceptions today, the only thing that get air time is propaganda.

      Absolutely. The problem, though, is that a large number of information consumers don't want facts -- they want validation. That's why nutty political talkshows have supplanted all other formats on broadcast radio and why such a large portion of the country believed that the President of the United States was not a U.S. citizen (or that he was raised by a Kenyan father who primed him to become "Leader of the Free World" in order to reinvent the United States as a Socialist utopia. No, not kidding, Google "2016.")

      The problem here is that, while journalists -- and even entire networks -- have always occasionally gotten things wrong, we now have an institutionalized mass media that sees it as a mission in life to deliberately bias its news reports. While ABC, NBC, CNN, etc., screw things up occasionally and present news from the viewpoint of an urban, educated (aka "Liberal") population, influential mass media like Fox are clear about existing primarily t to promote what they consider a "Conservative" agenda. Thus, while a large portion of the news-consuming population now screams bloody about errors made by traditional news media (see "82-year-old" anecdote in prior message), it eagerly embraces whatever it hears from a source that seemingly runs everything it broadcasts through a Conservative political-correctness filter. See also AGW.

      Compare for yourself. If you're viewing CNN, how long does it take before a story appears that is critical of the President or of a "Liberal" stance on a political issue. Then tune in Fox and compare how long it takes before a story appears that is not critical of the President or does not present a "Liberal" stance in a negative light. If you want to really drill down, compare how long it takes before Fox or a Clear Channel talkshow entertainer broadcasts a story that praises an action of the President or presents a "Liberal" stance in a positive light. It's just common sense. No matter what you think of the President of the United States, he can't be wrong on *everything* every day of the week. Remember when the Seals killed Osama? I still remember distraught listeners calling Limbaugh looking for guidance on how they should react. It was so important to them to criticize the "sub-human mongrel" on every issue, but how could they maintain their integrity in light of this report? I almost felt sorry for 'em. Such cognitive dissonance -- oh, the humanity.

      See, that's the thing that Fox & Clear Channel fans don't realize. The opposite of an alleged Liberal bias is not an overt Conservative bias -- it's a lack of bias. If you don't see your belief systems supported on ABC or NBC, switching to Fox & Hannity doesn't make you better informed. It's just masturbation. Rather than wasting time digesting feel-good quasi-news, that time might be better spent consuming information from an ostensibly nonpartisan source like factcheck.org.

  14. Defining a liberal and a conservative by Bruce66423 · · Score: 1

    A 'liberal' is someone who has just been arrested and wants to assert their rights... whilst a 'Conservative' is someone who has just been mugged

  15. Trust the Gestapo, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    they are professionals. Hail to the National Securialist Party!

  16. Let's TRY and understand their position by Bruce66423 · · Score: 1

    The reality will be that there are capabilities in the drones that they don't want to talk about. Now the interesting issue that this raises is that if a drone is used for a criminal case, it is the right of the defence to have ALL evidence gathered in the case, so actually the capabilities will become public if it is used in a case that comes to trial...

    1. Re:Let's TRY and understand their position by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which is why they relabel you "terrorist" or "enemy combatant". Nothing gets to court, you were guilty all along, and nothing gets uncovered.

  17. No criminals = No job by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They're scared terrorist will quit once they find out just how much we're spying on people.

  18. Makes Sense by Isao · · Score: 1

    PIA's generally discuss the technology or system in terms of how it would be used by the agency. For the FBI, this would likely include different operational scenarios, and certainly how drone data would be used in investigations. I can understand that such information would reveal strategies and tactics. As long as is has oversight by somebody (a point of discussion, I know) I'm fine with it being marked For Official Use Only (FOUO).

  19. CHANGE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Suckers.

  20. Re: Racist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Tea Party person showing opposition to those programs prior to 2009? Ron Paul & his followers in the 2008 election, including Campaign for Liberty?

    The "Tea Party" (Taxed Enough Already) moniker didn't exist until 2009 and was first centered around the government bailouts that were occurring at that time (some under Bush even), which would make it hard to find earlier examples. However, that doesn't mean that the people protesting the misuse of government funds were not opposed to other government excesses and abuses. IT MOST CERTAINLY DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE TEA PARTY'S VIEWS ON OBAMA'S SKIN COLOR, unless you think Tea Party activist Herman Cain was opposed to having a black president. I wish Obama defenders would stop being so racially prejudiced. I guess racism must be their reason for supporting him.

    In conclusion, someone thinking that it's suspect that in 2009 a group of people would begin actively protesting government spending and bailouts is someone who clearly hasn't been paying attention.

    P.S. There was opposition to the PATRIOT Act among libertarians and constitutionalists in 2001 as well.

  21. Re: Racist by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

    Ron Paul & his followers in the 2008 election, including Campaign for Liberty?

    Tea Partiers don't tend to think so highly of Ron Paul.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  22. Looking for employers IT by TTAPersonal · · Score: 1

    Hello, wir are looking for employers in IT Sector in Germany. (Security systems) Someone interested: http://www.tta-personal.de/ and medicine: http://www.tta-personalmedizin... Thank you

  23. I studied the FBI, wrote a draft, made it secret by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How funny can we be. Use taxpayer dollars to fund a study on drones affect on citizen's privacy, and then make it secret. Now we have to wait 50 years to learn about it. I say do the opposite, write an expose on the FBI using drones to monitor citizens and their affect on society, and then make it secret and let them quid pro quo, tit for tat, so we can compare notes and findings.

    ha! those funny FBI folks (Funny Bureaucratic Investigators).

    Love or hate em. I have to love em... they have a tough job to do.

    I just use the words, Don't Tread on Me. --

  24. No drones by LessThanObvious · · Score: 1

    They can hide all the reports they want. Obviously drones used improperly can completely destroy privacy. It's going to be very hard to draw the line. I just hope our country has enough sense to steadfastly oppose any use of drones for surveillance of people on U.S. soil.