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Elon Musk Promises 100,000 Electric Cars Per Year
Dave Knott sends this news from the CBC:
Tesla stock was up five per cent on Friday morning after CEO Elon Musk said the electric-car company would deliver 100,000 vehicles next year. Its earnings report released Thursday shows Tesla continues to operate at a loss as it spends on engineering and setting up an assembly line for its Model X SUV, which is scheduled to go into production early next year. But investors were cheered by the news that the company would deliver 100,000 vehicles next year, up from 22,000 in 2013 and a projected 35,000 this year. Tesla reported a loss of $61.9 million in its second quarter, compared with a loss of $30.5 million in the same quarter a year ago. Revenue nearly doubled to $769.3 million, missing Wall Street's forecast of $801.9 million, but expenses were also up as Tesla prepares some ambitious projects, spending $93 million in the quarter on research and development alone. While the Model X is in development, the longer-term plan is for a cheaper, mass-market car, the Model 3, to be launched in 2017. The biggest investment Tesla will make is in its large lithium-ion production plant, to be built at an as-yet-unnamed U.S. location in a $5-billion partnership with Panasonic.
I thought the Gigafactory was going to be built outside Reno....
He said that by the end of 2015 they would be producing cars at a rate > 100,000 cars/yr (2000 cars/wk). They will enter 2015 producing cars at slightly more than 50,000 cars/yr (1000 cars/wk). The actual number of cars (Model S & Model X) made in 2015 will be between 50,000 and 100,000. Elon went on to say it would be greater than 60,000. Elon speaks very precisely. It is not confusing.
Somebody mod this guy up. He's right. It's a critical distinction.
You honestly think the auto industry is a free market?
There are tons of morons around here who like to throw around that term but don't seem to have any idea what it means.
I fail to think of a single industry with any real pull in the American market place that isn't run through at least a few government regulatory entities.
Once the bubb...err..correction takes place, then I will look forward to investing.
But don't worry. We'll make it up in volume.
Methinks your definition of "cheap" and mine are very different creatures indeed.
SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
free market may not be so free nor easy
What "free" market?
We construct a nation of endless laws and millions of government lawyers to regulate huge oligopolies that use these same ever willing lawyers and their laws to insulate themselves from competition, chalk all of this nasty, influence peddling bullshit to "the free market" and disparage it when it fails.
What, exactly, are you thinking of when you say "free?"
Oddly, for the price, it's got almost nothing on the Leaf other than the letters BMW on the side of it.
The Ford Fusion electric only gets about 90% the miles/kWh that the Leaf does (with the same size battery) with considerably greater style*.
Depending on your driving habits, the Fusion Energi and it's 7kWh battery (and 20+ mile range before cutting over to 40+ mpg gas) might make more sense.
*Style subject to opinion. YMMV.
Presumably it's got a crapload of luxury-car features. You don't go BMW if fuel economy is your foremost desire, after all.
So... not to stir up a hornets nest... but everyones aware that electric cars produce more pollution than gas right?
If you live near a nuclear plant, ok, maybe not... but the vast majority of electricity is produced from coal. Gasoline engines are terrible... only 30% efficient or so... but coals only 40% efficient. Add to that 6% losses in AC transmission lines... then the Tesla charger is only 80% efficient in practical applications (The instructions say its 90% but that's under optimum circumstances) These things consume a lot more fossil fuels than Gasoline cars ever would.
Sadly, unless we start building a lot more nuclear power plants, this will be terrible for the environment, especially CO2 levels.
Granted they will solve the problem of the soccer mom that's been driving around that mini van from 1998 and has no idea what a spark plug is much less a tuneup. People like that are almost solely responsible for smog in this country.
...and none of the affordability. Go Elon go!
BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
I fail to think of a single industry with any real pull in the American market place that isn't run through at least a few government regulatory entities.
Good, I can't think of a single industry that wouldn't fsck things all up if they weren't being watched.
You think building an automobile manufacturing plant, engineering a new line of cars, and building a distribution network should be cheap and easy? Musk seems to be pulling it off, so yea, it's a free market. Albeit a more expensive one to get into than opening a hot dog stand.
Except, it doesn't.
Canvas seats and plastic trim, plus the same $650 "programming fee" to upgrade to satellite radio as on their other new cars. Every other "feature" is available in the Leaf (e.g. nav with range "bubble" superimposed).
Fine. As long as you stop calling it "capitalism" or "the free market."
The doings of Elon Musk and Tesla Motors are tech news. That is a fact. It is objectively true. You know this and agree with it, even though you don't want to.
And every time you throw one of these little passive-aggressive tantrums about it, you accomplish nothing but telling the world that you are a loser.
Really? It's come to this? You have to come to an electric car thread to painfully hoist your leg, strain your palsied Kegel muscles, and squeeze these pitiful few droplets of territoriality out of your limp, shriveled ween?
I didn't realize you'd sunk so low, so quickly, after your banishment from Fark, Quantum Apostrophe.
Trying to create some "space nutter" strawmen to knock over again, I see.
It frustrates you to no end that those people don't actually exist no matter how hard you keep wishing for them. Inventing them will never satisfy you, but you'll keep doing it because you're neither smart enough to think of anything else nor man enough to abandon your little crusade as the pointless and stupid endeavor it always was.
An often heard dubious claim...
"All in all, an electric car creates slightly less pollution than a Prius."
Ignoring the fact that electricity can come from any source.
That doesn't offset my point at all. It's still not a free market and as long as people like the twat OP keeps running around screaming "free market" anytime an industry is mentioned that he may or may not like I'm going to confront them over it.
People who want to discuss business and industry need to understand that the government had just as much a hand in the current goings on as anyone else. Sadly people here want to make it seem like business runs around with a free hand while the government are meek victims, whipped into submission. I'll say it to the end; You can't buy what isn't for sale.
For the most part, people look for government solutions when someone around here moans about "the free market." The truth of the matter is that the government is part of the market.
Preventing F-ups is not the role of regulation. That is propoganda. Congress delegates regulatory powers to regulators so they can make up rules without political consequences, as well as make rulings without the inconvience of courts with their rules, and most importantly fine deep pockets without recourse as a non- legislated tax
Case in point. The recent liquidity crisis was caused by government fiscal and monetary policy, but because there is no recourse against government with sovereign immunity, they balmed the very banks they liquified , regulated to death, and ordered to issue easy qualify securitized loans. They keep the fines for slush funds not return them to "harmed" parties.
BTW we are the sovereigns, nit them. The Constitution tells me so snd does not empower a single regulator, but warns against them!!
You honestly think the auto industry is a free market? There are tons of morons around here who like to throw around that term but don't seem to have any idea what it means. I fail to think of a single industry with any real pull in the American market place that isn't run through at least a few government regulatory entities.
Silly AC - The corporation IS the Government. And unless you crawled out from under Atlas' rock. Corporations will not tolerate the free market.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
If the commodities exchanges aren't "free markets", the term is meaningless. "Free market" does not mean unregulated - never has except in strawmen - it means the government isn't mucking with pricing, nor giving preference to some buyers or sellers.
"Capitalism" only means that you can aquire the means of production by spending money, instead of by political influence, military adventure, or the like.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
BMW is only marginally a luxury car. You get less luxury at a given price than most other car companies, as their focus is on performance and that means reducing weight.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Musk is a brilliant engineer and if he really wanted more people to experience this technology. He would have sold it to a auto maker or licensed its technology to several. Not only to reduce price to consumers and in turn offer more affordable cars. But also he would have reached people in lower income brackets who could benefit more from a all electric vehicle. Instead he builds cars that are outstanding but not affordable for the majority. Your barely staying alive by selling carbon credits
and you snub your nose and every means of being accepted by dealer networks and state regulators. When in fact if you did a little more smooth talking and much less paving your own path. You might actually make a few bucks on Tesla and in turn really help people. Instead you sell cars to eccentric tree hugger's who have plenty of money to buy gas but insist on creating a image of being "Green". As my subject line says. Musk is a great engineer but a lousy marketing guru.
free market may not be so free nor easy
What "free" market?
We construct a nation of endless laws and millions of government lawyers to regulate huge oligopolies that...
Okay, hold it right there. Here, this only took a second to find: "According to the American Bar Association there are currently 1,116,967 lawyers practicing in the U.S." - from a recent posting.
So, you baldly assert that more than twice the number lawyers practicing in the U.S. work for the government. How in the world do you expect anyone to take ANYTHING you say seriously?
So... not to stir up a hornets nest... but everyones aware that electric cars produce more pollution than gas right?
Let's look at some facts here. First off, the efficiency of a thermal power plant is somewhere around 33% to 48%, at least according to wikipedia. Let's split the difference and say 41% for a thermal plant. The typical thermal efficiency of a a gasoline engine is about 18% to 20%. Let's split the difference and say 19%. Thus, a thermal power plant is more than twice as efficient as a gasoline engine in terms of changing chemical potential energy to useful output.
But there are some caveats. Firstly, the electricity needs to be transmitted. High voltage power lines are extremely efficient, about 94% according to this article. That means that the chemical energy (lets assume from coal) reaching the charging station is 41% x 94% = 38.5%. And then there is the charging process. According to this article, the charge efficiency of a Li-Ion battery is about 97%, which makes sense to me, as batteries usually don't run too hot. The charging devices however probably are responsible for some loss. Let's assume they are 80% efficient. That gives us 38.5% x 80.0% x 97% = 30%. Thus, according to this, 30% of the coal chemical potential energy makes it to the engine.
But what about engine efficiency? Well electric motors run very cool, and have very high efficiencies, typically around 90%. I wouldn't be surprised if Tesla's motor is better. This means that if a coal power plant powered a Tesla, 30% x 90% = 27% of the energy would reach the wheels of the car, compared with a gasoline powered car, where 19% of the gasoline's potential energy comes out of the engine, never mind the losses in the transmission lines. Thus, a coal powered Tesla is 40% more energy efficient than a gasoline powered car.
However, there is one problem. Generating energy by coal produces more CO2 than generating it by gasoline. According to this article, coal generates about 215 pounds CO2 per btu of energy, while gasoline generates 157 pounds CO2 per btu. However, even with this, by my calculations, an equivalent gas powered car still emits 3.8% more CO2 than our coal powered Tesla.
Elon Musk made this claim in an interview, that even if a coal power plant generates the electricity, a Tesla still emits less CO2. My referenced back of a napkin calculations above support this assertion.
This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when first he appears as a protector - Plato (423 to 327 BC)
"Free market" does not mean unregulated - never has except in strawmen - it means the government isn't mucking with pricing, nor giving preference to some buyers or sellers.
Not that simple. Every regulation affects pricing, albeit indirectly and so every regulation picks winners. e.g. many regulations try to pick the honest over the dishonest. The way I'd put it is that regulation tries to favour those who compete positively (e.g. bringing themselves up by improving the product, cheapening production etc.) versus those who compete negatively (e.g. bringing the competition down with fraudulent advertising or deliberate incompatibility). Regulations are a very blunt instrument but it does work, sort of.
I think the BMW is ugly but it is revolutionary because its frame and body are carbon-fiber-reinforced plastic.
The incremental cost of the F-35 is higher than the F-16. Period. A new F-16 costs less than $50 million, maybe about $25 million 20 years ago, if you ignore inflation. The F-16 is less capable, and made mostly out of aluminum, so a lower price is to be expected. I am not certain about the F-18's price.
That is basically breaking even especially given the backers and what they're investing in. I'm surprised the losses weren't larger.
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
Unfortunately, regulation intended to pick the honest quite commonly does exactly the opposite. Those with the connections to get away with being dishonest can do so while those playing by the rules get screwed.
That depends on what you mean by a "free" market, which is even more complicated than the "free as in speech or free as in beer" of software. One meaning is as the opposite to a controlled market - one where participants and/or prices are regulated and you don't have a natural supply and demand. Obviously the car industry doesn't have that (but it did in the past, like the development of the Volkswagen in Germany), so in that sense it's free.
A second idea of a free market is a functional, competitive market where there are realistic choices and practically possibilities for new entrants to enter the market. The first definition doesn't exclude monopolies, oligarchies, collusion and cartels, dumping, price discrimination, exclusivity deals, IPR (imaginary property rights) lockout or any other number of anti-competitive behaviors.
A third idea of a free market is being as close as possible to perfect competition, a mostly unreachable ideal where you have cutthroat competition that'll constantly underbid each other until they sell at marginal cost and no profit is made. Lowering barriers to entry might be one way of trying to "lube" the market into functioning smoother, or you could for example require stores to show prices per kilo/liter to improve price transparency.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Actually, if you look at the I3, it has the interior of a $20K car. Worst yet, with it being electric, it should have spectacular performance, and yet, it drives like any other POS car out there. IOW, just like a ford and any BMW that costs under 100K.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Electric is SOooooo 2012!
I was looking at a Tesla or another electric and the Toyota said they'll ship Hydrogen Fuel Cell next year. So, I will drive my car another year.
I have a Prius now and am driving into the ground. Tesla was the next intelligent step... While waiting for fuel cell. But now fuel cell seems to be here, so why would I buy that?
Now the BMW i8, that car is the works. But then in a car of that price, who cares about fuel costs? Even if you actually care about the environment, for that kind of money you can buy a LOT of carbon offsets (or solar panels) to conserve fossil fuels when heating your mansion or whatever.
I wouldn't mind so much if Musk and Tesla didn't lie about the price. Musk states $500/month in an official video, and their site states £450/month. Read the fine print and that includes an equal saving in fuel, maintenance and tax. So the real price is £900/month.
The price is fine, I can't afford it, just don't lie about it.
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SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Presumably it's got a crapload of luxury-car features. You don't go BMW if fuel economy is your foremost desire, after all.
That's right, you go BMW if your first goal is to have a driver's car, with good overall performance. You go to Mercedes, Maserati, Aston or Jag for luxury. And you go Audi for a car that just works... for a few years anyway
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
One meaning is as the opposite to a controlled market - one where participants and/or prices are regulated and you don't have a natural supply and demand.
Well, that is what we have. The participants are regulated through deciding who gets a bailout, and what terms they receive it under, even if they don't want the bailout (e.g. Ford.) And the prices are kept artificially high through these means as well.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Well, I'm still waiting for the promised game-changing 3D revolution. Where is it? You know, the over-the-top printing a car at home promises? The self-replicating magical asteroid mining equipment?
I'm not really banned from Fark, I can still change my profile and sponsor people for TF. I can even post, but they don't show for other people.
It does crack me up when a lone voice of reason pops up in a 3D printing/private space colony story, and all you other mouth-breathing anencephalic uncritical gee-whiz morons all think it's me!
I'm surprised that the electric-only range on the i8 is so low given that it costs as much a Model S & Chevy Volt combined.
Pain is merely failure leaving the body
Strawman? So there isn't this article up on Fark right now?
"New "EmDrive" propulsion device results have been independently verified. Earth to Mars in a matter of weeks instead of months. No word yet on Hyper-drives, Warp-drives, FTL Drives or Infinite Improbability Drives"
The slightest little thing and you nutcases immediately want to live on Mars.
So there's no Space Nutters, eh?
Yeah, I think it would be too much weight to lug around a gas engine and fuel, plus a 200 mile battery, and still get 0-60 in 4.2 seconds. Given that it gets 300 miles on its 11 gallon gas tank in hybrid mode, I'll bet a tank of gas would last me a couple months if I started with a full battery each morning. Not that I could ever own one anyways.
Can't afford one either.
Well, I'll have to content myself with watching Chris Harris put one through its paces in Malibu
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
Pain is merely failure leaving the body
No, there are no Space Nutters. This crap about "nutcases immediately want to live on Mars" is entirely your invention. Neither I nor anybody else here has said anything that could even be mistaken for it. And you know it.
You're a lying piece of shit, and you're going to keep shrieking confessions to that fact.
Silly AC - The corporation IS the Government. And unless you crawled out from under Atlas' rock. Corporations will not tolerate the free market.
Oops, I must have stepped on some Ayn Rand acolytes toes.
Fresh meat. Tell me how in a market sans regulation i.e. "free" will a corporation that becomes so large that Politicians have no choice but to vote in a mannr that will benefit their company and to the detreminat of all other competition - that company is not the defacto government? Even to the point of passing "regulations".
Whoever marked me as "troll simply hates when the truth gets in the way of their ideology.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Who "promised" you that? Nobody real, that's who.
" Earth to Mars in a matter of weeks instead of months"
So why is that important then? Oh yeah, you nutcases genuinely think we'll go live there. Uh huh. Sure Theo, pull the other one. You know no one's going anywhere, ever, right?
That's not why at all, and you'll never succeed in convincing yourself that it is, no matter how many times you furiously scream it to yourself as you're doing right now.
As usual, you have completely failed to find anything said by anyone that suggests they think they're going to Mars.
Here, I'll make it easy on you by keeping the scope small. Quote somethin Or take a deep breath and screech at the top of your lungs, for the thousandth time, that you're lying about what other people said because you're too stupid to respond to what they really said. Those are your ONLY possible choices.
Perhaps the same way as he expects all ten of you to be as well-versed in hyperbole as he is!
When hyperbole is the sole content of a post, well... see my comment.
And when a ham-handed attempt at humor is the sole content of your snippy post... well again, see my comment.
Better luck next time.