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Point-and-Shoot: TrackingPoint's New Linux-Controlled AR-15s

Ars Technica takes a look at the next generation of TrackingPoint's automatically aimed rifles (not "automatic" in the usual sense), and visited the shooting range where they're tested out. Like the company's previous generation of gun (still in production, and increasingly being sold to government buyers), TrackingPoint's offerings integrate a Linux computer that makes acquiring and tracking a target far easier and more accurate than it would otherwise be. Unlike the older models, though, this year TrackingPoint is concentrating on AR-15s, rather than longer, heavier bolt-action rifles. A slice: The signature "Tag-Track-Xact" system has gained additional functionality on the AR models, too. With the bolt-action guns, there was only one way to put a round onto a target: first, you sighted in on the thing you wanted to hit and depressed the red tagging button just above the trigger. A red pip would appear in the scope’s crosshairs, and you’d place the pip onto the target and release the button. The scope’s rangefinding laser would then illuminate the target to measure its distance, and the image processor would fix on the object; if you moved, or if the target moved, the red pip would remain atop the target. Then, to fire, you squeezed the trigger and lined the crosshairs up with the target’s pip. When the two coincided, the weapon fired. This method works fine for a bolt-action rifle where every round has to be manually chambered, but it’s less than ideal for a carbine, which one might want to fire off-hand (i.e., standing up and aiming) or from the hip. With this in mind, the AR PGFs have a new "free fire mode," in which you can tag a target once and then shoot at it as many times as you want by pulling the trigger directly, with all the shots using the ballistic data from the first shot’s tag. That means, says writer Lee Hutchinson, a rifle "with essentially 100 percent accuracy at 250 yards."

138 of 219 comments (clear)

  1. Now do that with an AA-12 by Khyber · · Score: 1

    Because being able to do that with a fully-automatic heavy weapon will be the new level of warfare.

    --
    Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    1. Re:Now do that with an AA-12 by Travis+Mansbridge · · Score: 2

      I don't think there will ever be such a thing as a 100% accurate shotgun.

    2. Re:Now do that with an AA-12 by roman_mir · · Score: 3, Funny

      Aaah, a true killer application, the year of GNU/Linux on your favourite weapon of choice :)

    3. Re:Now do that with an AA-12 by FatdogHaiku · · Score: 2
      --
      You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
    4. Re:Now do that with an AA-12 by LordLimecat · · Score: 2

      Its still not gonna be terribly accurate with a smoothbore barrel.

    5. Re:Now do that with an AA-12 by Sqr(twg) · · Score: 5, Interesting

      will be the new level of warfare.

      Yes, and not in a good way.

      It used to be the case that you needed experienced, diciplined soldiers to make snipers. If you tried to fight a proxy war by arming insurgents the way the U.S. armed the Mujahideen (al Quaeda), or the way Russia is arming Ukranian separatists, then you got a pretty inefficient force that could only win by war of attrition.

      These new weapons will make it much easier for anyone with money (like the IS) to recruit people out of the slums and quickly turn them into effective fighting units.

      Also it will increase the efficiency of child soliders, and therfore lead to more recruitment.

    6. Re:Now do that with an AA-12 by viperidaenz · · Score: 2

      You mean give some insurgents a Buk and they'll shoot down a civilian plane?

    7. Re:Now do that with an AA-12 by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      AA-12? Sort of an overkill for a personal weapon, I'd say...

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    8. Re:Now do that with an AA-12 by Chas · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There is no "overkill".

      There is only "kill" with varying levels of confidence.

      Shoot a guy once, and there's always the possibility he's not dead.

      Shoot him 300 times, and yeah, you're pretty certain of him.

      Shoot him with a missile, and now you're sure he's not just merely dead, he's really most sincerely dead.

      Just...fire it from outside it's blast radius...(See "Fireball in 10x10 room")

      --


      Chas - The one, the only.
      THANK GOD!!!
    9. Re:Now do that with an AA-12 by gmhowell · · Score: 3, Insightful

      AA-12? Sort of an overkill for a personal weapon, I'd say...

      That's loser talk.

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    10. Re:Now do that with an AA-12 by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Its still not gonna be terribly accurate with a smoothbore barrel.

      Does the phrase "M1A1 Abrams" have any meaning for you?

      Hint: the Abrams gun is a 120mm smoothbore. It's probably the most accurate tank gun in current use.

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    11. Re:Now do that with an AA-12 by qmetaball · · Score: 2

      it also fires shells that cost more than a car.

      --
      Everything is porn to somebody.
    12. Re:Now do that with an AA-12 by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 3, Informative

      It fires fin-stabilized sub-caliber darts with an extremely high ballistic coefficient. Of course it's going to be highly accurate even at long distances. I'm just not sure that this scales down to small arms.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    13. Re:Now do that with an AA-12 by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Right but you wouldnt compare the accuracy of an M1A1 to the accuracy of an infantry rifle.

    14. Re:Now do that with an AA-12 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Hi!

      I'm a recreational shooter and have at least a passing familiarity with small arms doctrine. This has very little military application.

      Why?

      Well...

      If you are running a crew serviced weapon, what is traditionally thought of as a 'machine gun', you aren't trying to match every bullet to some knucklehead's torso. That isn't your job. Your weapon isn't accurate enough for that sort of milarky. What you can do is drop 600+ rounds a minute in a sustainable way. You end up with what's referred to as a 'beaten' area. Say a machine gun has an accuracy of around 6 MOA.. which they don't. An MOA means minute of angle.. roughly 1" at 100 yards, 2" at 200 yards, and doubles every time you double the distance.

      Say you have that super-accurate MG. It's dropping 600 rounds a minute into 6" at 100, a foot at 200, two feet at 400 and etc. Say you've got a guy prone hiding behind a stump at 200 yards. You aren't concerned with trying to one-shot his brain pan. It's far more efficent on your time to drop a 2-3 second burst (20-30 rounds) than take the 5 seconds it'd take to setup a perfect shot with a better weapon. It's about hit probabilities. If you can fill a space with enough bullets fast enough you'll overcome inaccuracy. Accuracy is difficult to achieve in the field. More bullets in a given space is relatively easy.

      Rifles work the same way. 3-4 MOA is typical on modern combat rifles. within 200 yards, wind drift and bullet drop is less than your accuracy threshold. At 3 MOA that maybe true all the way to 400 yards. Forcing me to slow down and achieve a 'perfect' aim point doesn't buy me anything -- name of the game is me + 2 or 3 supporting fellows filling the same space with bullets till probability gives us a center punching of the target. IE, 6 rounds into 8 MOA in 5 seconds is more likely to hit center than 2 rounds at 3 MOA in the same time. That's a major part of the point of burst fire. You can't overcome inherit inaccuracy in the system with better aim. Only by recovering from the shot and pulling the trigger faster.

      The gizmo can't do that. The combat revolution you envision was achieved decades ago by semi and fully automatic weaponry.

    15. Re:Now do that with an AA-12 by dave420 · · Score: 1

      Apart from the more accurate guns, sure :)

    16. Re:Now do that with an AA-12 by MrLogic17 · · Score: 1

      Good comment, however when I got to this line:

      Shoot him with a missile, and now you're sure he's not just merely dead, he's really most sincerely dead.

      ...my mind was suddenly speaking with a helium voice. Don't you know that helium is rapidly becoming very expensive?!?

    17. Re:Now do that with an AA-12 by dcollins · · Score: 2

      "(See 'Fireball in 10x10 room')"

      Edition dependent: Yes in 1-2E. No in 0E, BX, 3-4-5E.

      http://deltasdnd.blogspot.com/2011/07/spells-through-ages-fireball.html

      --
      We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
    18. Re:Now do that with an AA-12 by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      you are ignorant of slug guns, just shut up already

    19. Re:Now do that with an AA-12 by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      even without a slug barrel slugs are accurate, typically sub 4" groups at 100 yards. Most slug are designed to be shot through smooth bores and are self-stabilizing.

      People should educate themselves before repeating firearm urban legends, another myth for example is that snub nosed revolvers are inaccurate. Most of those will group 3" or less at 25 yards, they are *hard to aim* because of the short site radius but not in any way inaccurate.

    20. Re:Now do that with an AA-12 by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      yes it does, slugs are designed to be fired from smoothbore shotguns and are self stabilizing. The grooved area near the base is to allow compression when passing through choke.

    21. Re:Now do that with an AA-12 by iggymanz · · Score: 3, Informative

      yes, slugs are *extremely* accurate and are designed to be fired through smoothbore barrel *with a choke*, look it up how they work. I get 3" groups at 100 yards out of my Remington 870 with 3" rounds

    22. Re:Now do that with an AA-12 by Dishevel · · Score: 1
      I think you truly have overestimated the amount of time and training that goes into shooting your rifle.

      Much more of the abilities of troops on the ground comes from intelligence, placement, combined arms training and good flexible leadership. Stupid will still get you dead fairly quickly if you are not trained.

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    23. Re:Now do that with an AA-12 by Chas · · Score: 1

      I know not what this 0E, BX, 3-4-5E you speak of are!

      Nothing! Nada!

      There is only first and second editions!

      --


      Chas - The one, the only.
      THANK GOD!!!
    24. Re:Now do that with an AA-12 by Khyber · · Score: 1

      You do know we also have finned dart rounds for incredible accuracy out of the barrel, yea?

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    25. Re:Now do that with an AA-12 by FatdogHaiku · · Score: 1

      Right but you wouldnt compare the accuracy of an M1A1 to the accuracy of an infantry rifle.

      Well, if you are 2,500 meters away please shot at me with an infantry rifle...

      --
      You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
    26. Re:Now do that with an AA-12 by Dr_Barnowl · · Score: 1

      It is. And the license explicitly permits it. Any kind of restriction on it's use and it's not Free Software.

    27. Re:Now do that with an AA-12 by Dishevel · · Score: 1

      I am not saying the system is useless. What I am saying is that this will not make a group of 12 year old children an army.

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    28. Re:Now do that with an AA-12 by rpstrong · · Score: 1

      At moderately close ranges, a shotgun's accuracy goes up to 11.

  2. Zorg? by Nidi62 · · Score: 4, Funny

    With this in mind, the AR PGFs have a new "free fire mode," in which you can tag a target once and then shoot at it as many times as you want by pulling the trigger directly, with all the shots using the ballistic data from the first shot’s tag.

    With the replay button, another Zorg invention, it's even easier. One shot...and replay sends every following shot to the same location.

    Although I guess in this case you actually want to push the little red button.

    --
    The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    1. Re:Zorg? by Chas · · Score: 1

      Reading the OP last night, I could hear Gary Oldman in my head.

      Nice to know I'm not the only one.

      --


      Chas - The one, the only.
      THANK GOD!!!
  3. Re:a rifle with 100 percent accuracy by _merlin · · Score: 3, Funny

    Get your FLOSS personalities right: Eric S Raymond is the gun nut.

  4. Robot by wisnoskij · · Score: 4, Interesting

    At this point, the main problem seems to be putting the human into the mix. I could see putting a laser distance gauge, and some rudimentary calculator to automatically adjust for distance; I am sort of thinking, highlighting the correct location in the scope instead of actually adjusting it. But if you you are going to design complete tracking tech, put the gun on a tripod with a few motors. Hell, you could probably even mount it on a guys backpack.

    --
    Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    1. Re:Robot by baKanale · · Score: 4, Informative

      The summary doesn't explain well, but TrackingPoint isn't a robotic gun or anything like that. It is a system that uses rangefinders and other sensors built into a scope that allow a user to designate a target, and then, when the trigger is pulled, only allows the weapon to fire when it's aligned with an optimal firing solution. This lets novices shoot on target at extended ranges. They've previously done this with bolt action rifles, but apparently they've developed it for use in AR-15s, as per the article. Here's a link to their page about the original system: http://tracking-point.com/prec...

    2. Re:Robot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "On a tripod with a few motors" is not entirely simple.

      You need a servo mechanism that is fast enough to be useful and stable, and for that they're using human arms. Human arms (when controlled by a reasonably sober brain) are very very good servomechanisms. Duplicating them with motors seems trivial - Until you run into stability problems.

      And having a weapon about to discharge going into oscillation is, as they say, a "bad thing".

      AC

    3. Re:Robot by swedishsax · · Score: 1

      And having a weapon about to discharge going into oscillation is, as they say, a "bad thing".

      It's not too bad as long as it can be accurately compensated for, as is the case in naval gunnery, or any other type of platform-mounted gunnery for that matter.

      The problem, as you point out, is one of stability, or rather, stability versus portability. So while it wouldn't work very well on a guy's backpack, for fixed installations, Aliens-style shoot-at-anything-that-moves robot sentries are perfectly realisable with today's technology.

      But as the current debate on robotic weaponry (and indeed the Ottawa treaty) show, this type of indiscriminate, human-out-of-the-loop weapons are not very popular at the moment, so I'd be surprised if we saw them deployed anytime soon.

    4. Re:Robot by spiritplumber · · Score: 1

      So it's basically aimhack for real life.

      --
      Liberty - Security - Laziness - Pick any two.
    5. Re:Robot by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 2

      You need a servo mechanism that is fast enough to be useful and stable, and for that they're using human arms. Human arms (when controlled by a reasonably sober brain) are very very good servomechanisms. Duplicating them with motors seems trivial - Until you run into stability problems.

      What stability? What do we have computers, dynamic system state prediction, and feedback control for? In fact, a certain lack of stability might be exactly the thing you might need for a truly smart weapon. Imagine a soldier holding a weapon with the second grip being not too far forward and held somewhat loosely (so that the end could swing slightly). In that case, a reaction control system near the end of the barrel ought to be able to exercise limited adjustments in azimuth and elevation to swing the barrel over the computed aiming point, or to shift an imprecise swing only approaching the aiming point onto the point. Because everyone is holding the weapon differently (regarding the stiffness of the grip), the dynamic parameters of the system can't be preset statically, but they can be measured right before the point of initiating the movement of the barrel towards the aiming point. In addition, even if these parameters are changing as the weapon is aiming itself, the error imparted by these parameter deltas is decreasing exponentially as the weapon is approaching the firing point, because inertia is playing a role here.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    6. Re:Robot by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      So it's basically aimhack for real life.

      That's pretty much the summary.

      Except instead of the bot finding the target, you designate the target, then pull the trigger. The gun won't fire until it's positioned in such a way that the designated target will be hit.

      The thing is, the basic skills still need to be there. For their rifle, well, you still need to calm yourself down enough to be able to find the target, designate it, then squeeze and wait for it to fire. Sure it means you don't need to discipline yourself to breathe and even attune yourself to your heartbeat, but you still can't just designate, hold the trigger down and flail the gun everywhere.

      The AR is similar - you still need to be able to hold it somewhat steady and in the direction of the target.

      The comment at the end of the article about people going crazy with it is true - you're not going to be very effective with it if your aim is to kill as many people as you can. (And yes, you can forget about used gun sales - each gun is a "smart gun" and keyed to their user)

      I'd perhaps call it more as "aim assist" that you find in console FPS games where as long as your target is within a circle, you'll always hit.

    7. Re:Robot by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Ever tried to stabilize a servo system? They can be overdamped (doesn't quite get to the right place) or underdamped (overshoots, swings back, starts oscillating...)

      Fortunately, in this particular application, it shouldn't matter - even without these actuators, the current version of this weapon system (as I understood it) is insensitive to higher-order errors: you can pass the barrel aiming point with any "non-abnormal' speed or acceleration over the target, and it will still fire correctly, only passing over the correct position is crucial. If the rifle were oscillating (which it actually is when hand-held anyway, as many shooting instructors will quickly point out), that might even make it simpler: it's just more potential passes over the aiming point in a short period of time. Accurate and precise trigger control seems much more important here. And closed-loop induced oscillations should be preventable simply be the one-shot nature of the system: once you fire at the target, and the system judges it doesn't need to fire again, the barrel actuators disengage.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
  5. So let me get this Straight. by wisnoskij · · Score: 1

    First, you need to perfectly accurately sight the target, with no help. Then after you have done that, the computer will track for you. And if you screwed up the first step, and tagged a plant instead, you are screwed.

    --
    Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    1. Re:So let me get this Straight. by Sarten-X · · Score: 2

      Yeah, that seems to be the case.

      It's just a regular gun that waits to fire until you've lined up with where you tried to shoot initially.

      Nothing too new on the image processing front... but it runs Linux and pisses off the peaceniks, so Slashdot runs the story.

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    2. Re:So let me get this Straight. by aXis100 · · Score: 2

      It's easier to aim a laser tag with a small switch - and correct it if you've got it wrong - than to aim and fire using the trigger perfectly the first time.

      It's all about repercussions and sensitivity - the target probably wont get alerted by the tagging beam, and you can correct it as many times as you like whilst maintaining stealth. Once you have it right, the first real bullet will hit it's mark and the show is over.

    3. Re:So let me get this Straight. by BirdBrained · · Score: 3, Funny

      ...And if you screwed up the first step, and tagged a plant instead, you are screwed.

      For that you need a Salad Shooter.

  6. How does the Tagging Work by wisnoskij · · Score: 1

    How does it know what the target is after it has moved? Does it have to stay within the sights at all times, you cannot even lose sight of it in that tiny reticule? Or is it like marked at long distance with some sort of tracer?

    --
    Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    1. Re:How does the Tagging Work by swedishsax · · Score: 2

      http://tracking-point.com/innovations/hardware/tag-button The target is not marked by anything physical. The distance to target is measured with a laser range finder, but they don't go into any details as to how the subsequent tracking is performed (and understandably so, that's where they make their money). It could be an active system, where the scope continuously bounces laser off the target and corrects for movement within reasonable limits. It could be visual, where the system guesses the target's outline and then tracks it using the camera. Or it could be something else. Either way, automated tracking of ground targets is notoriously difficult compared to targets in air or on water, so it would be interesting to know how they deal with things like one deer moving briefly behind another, or standing behind a tree for a while and then coming out again.

  7. For loops are illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    With a software driven firearm, you've committed a felony by writing a simple for loop.
    (Created a machine gun)

    1. Re:For loops are illegal by ColdWetDog · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Take your meds. The ATF probably wants to buy these things.

      Since these guns have been all over the gun-nut press for the past couple of years, I'm sure that various three letter government agencies have heard about them and paid them some visits. Most cordial visits.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  8. Re:Apply liberal amounts of gloss. by sribe · · Score: 2

    Throw real world movement of the target, change of the landscape, and now you're talking something freakishly hard.

    Don't forget variable winds between you and something 250 yards away... 100% accuracy my ass...

  9. Great for High Schools by aybiss · · Score: 2, Funny

    Now to ensure that every high-school age child in America gets one!

    --
    It's OK Bender, there's no such thing as 2.
  10. Re:Apply liberal amounts of gloss. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Cross winds at the end of the barrel have more of an impact than those down range, research how tank gunnery is setup.

  11. Re:Question by Sarten-X · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How many more children will die because of this invention?

    I'm going to go with "none in the foreseeable future".

    Must we have something worse than Sandy Hook for people to wake up and say "no" to gun violence

    How about the Bath School disaster, where 45 people died, mostly children? Or perhaps looking away from human causes, we could consider infant diarrhoea, which kills a couple million children per year and can be cured with a few pennies' worth of salt? How about political violence and genocides, which kill thousands of civilian children?

    The simple answer is that there is no simple answer. The Bath School disaster was done with explosives. Infant diarrhoea is mostly a problem because parents don't have access to medical care, or realize that they need it. Political conflict is never so simple as having the good guys fight the bad guys - all sides think their righteous virtues are worth dying for, and worth having innocent people die for.

    The reality of life is that it's trivial to kill someone. A human body is an incredibly complex machine, with billions of interacting parts, and it's just so easy to screw it up fatally. Sure, you could ban guns with fancy sights, but it's still just as easy to build a bomb, grab a knife, or slip a bit of poison into a meal.

    Let's say "no" to pithy slogans and short-sighted politically-convenient campaigns.

    --
    You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
  12. Re:Question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I'd say less than would die without it. It is a system that is designed to ensure that you hit your intended target. Worldwide I would hazzard a guess that most children killed by firearms are accidental victims in the category "collateral damage".

    A gun that never misses its intended target would greatly mitigate collateral damage, thus being a net positive for innocents, including children. A few sandy hook type incidents shouldn't put much of a dent in that calculus. As well as the observation that school shooters tend to work at close range, where misses are not a huge factor.

  13. You have selected a headshot: by MrKaos · · Score: 2

    Are you sure you want to shoot this target?

    --
    My ism, it's full of beliefs.
  14. Obligatory by penguinoid · · Score: 5, Funny

    Could this be Linux's killer app that would blow the competition out of the water?

    --
    Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
  15. A real-world aimbot by Animats · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's an aimbot for real rifles. Now, any rifleman can be a sniper.

    Yes, it's too big, too complicated, and too expensive. That's a temporary problem. Ever see the first laser sight, from the 1980s? It used a helium-neon laser tube and required a power cord. There's been some progress since then. This aimbot technology should be down to smartphone size, if not cost, soon enough.

    1. Re:A real-world aimbot by Noishkel · · Score: 1

      Makes me think more of the 'Smart Gun' from 'Aliens' more than anything. But then again make mostly because I'd rather have the smart gun more than an TrackingPoint.

    2. Re:A real-world aimbot by TubeSteak · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's an aimbot for real rifles. Now, any rifleman can be a sniper.

      The majority of sniper training is about field craft, not shooting.

      And 100% accuracy at 250 yards is not as useful as you'd think.
      The engagement ranges in Iraq/Afghanistan were mostly 300 to 500 meters (328 to 546 yards) .

      Unfortunately, the M4 + 5.56 is intended for ranges less than 300 yards.
      This leaves a big gaping hole in the infantry's ability to effectively kill past 300 yards.
      The Iraqis and Afghans have no such range problems with their AK-47s and 7.62 ammo.

      TLDR: The military needs to reclaim 300-500 yards with a suitable infantry weapon.
      FYI - A trained sniper is expected to have 90% accuracy at 600 yards.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    3. Re:A real-world aimbot by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      The cynic in me would say, considering the accuracy of an average AK, range only minimally influences its chance to hit...

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    4. Re:A real-world aimbot by Hadlock · · Score: 1

      Does this set of statistics have any bearing on that 2011 soundbyte that "an estimated 250,000 bullets fired for every [Iraqi] insurgent killed"?

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    5. Re:A real-world aimbot by LordLimecat · · Score: 2

      Im not seeing where you're getting your info; everything Ive ever heard indicates that the only issues reported with the M4 are reliability, due to its tighter tolerances, but that its also more accurate. Thats backed up by this:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C...

      Which indicates the M16 /5.56 is accurate to 500m, whereas the AK47 with 7.76 ammo is only effective to 380m. If those are accurate, the M4 is lighter, uses 50% lighter ammo, and is accurate 25% further

    6. Re:A real-world aimbot by mark_reh · · Score: 1

      It will no doubt benefit from the same economies of scale as they build millions and millions of them...

    7. Re:A real-world aimbot by tomhath · · Score: 1

      I assume this would be more useful in an urban warfare setting where most engagements are under 250 yds, and a missed shot will hit something unintended.

    8. Re:A real-world aimbot by mjwalshe · · Score: 1

      m4 has a shorter barrel an the AK is an intermediate cartridge not full power rifle

    9. Re:A real-world aimbot by Whorhay · · Score: 1

      Not really an aim bot. Aimbots typically give you one button to press that aims the weapon, and it might fire with the same keypress. It doesn't matter where you were already aiming or looking when you press that button the screen snaps to a target.

      This system requires actually sighting in on the target and tagging it with a laser range finding system. The system uses some fancy image recognition software to then keep track of the target within your sight picture. When you then pull and hold the trigger the gun will fire only once you have aligned the gun in such a way that the system calculates you are aimed on the previously designated target.

    10. Re:A real-world aimbot by TubeSteak · · Score: 1

      Im not seeing where you're getting your info; everything Ive ever heard indicates that the only issues reported with the M4 are reliability, due to its tighter tolerances, but that its also more accurate.

      I guess people have short memories
      2006: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/is-faulty-ammo-failing-troops/

      In a confidential report to Congress last year, active Marine commanders complained that: "5.56 was the most worthless round," "we were shooting them five times or so," and "torso shots were not lethal."

      That's just the first article google kicked up.
      Complaints about stopping power started showing up once the Iraqi insurgency picked up.

      The M4/M16 is very accurate, it just doesn't have the same stopping power past 300 meters as larger rounds.
      This is intentional, because the military did research and concluded that most engagements take place inside 300 meters.
      This is also a problem, because in Iraq/Afghanistan, soldiers were being engaged from 400 and 500 meters, well past the effective stopping range of the 5.56 round.

      2010: U.S. Military Reconsiders Army's Use of M4 Rifles in Afghanistan

      The Taliban are meanwhile using heavier bullets that allow them to fire at U.S. and NATO troops from distances that are out of range of the M4.

      To counter these tactics, the U.S. military is designating nine soldiers in each infantry company to serve as sharpshooters, according to Maj. Thomas Ehrhart, who wrote the Army study. The sharpshooters are equipped with the new M110 sniper rifle, which fires a larger 7.62mm round and is accurate to at least 2,500 feet.

      Then again, the military is in the midst of a "pivot to Asia" so who knows what that means for the next war.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
  16. You Mean by Greyfox · · Score: 3, Informative

    Like that scene from The Fifth Element? I'd post a link but I find it amusing that if you search youtube for "That scene from the 5th element", it's the second link.

    --

    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

  17. Re:From the hip? by philip.paradis · · Score: 1

    I want to know who the hell shoots a rifle from the hip at all.

    --
    Write failed: Broken pipe
  18. Re:I will defend my home with these by Barny · · Score: 1

    I don't get it, how will a gun give them a firm texture and a slightly nutty taste?

    --
    ...
    /me sighs
  19. Re:now graft it onto a grunt's arm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Remote controlled troops will kill the terrists for US!

    Other way around. This is the perfect assassination weapon.

    Politicians will be queuing up to ban it as soon as they realize how big a threat it is to them. All the "terrists" need to do is to set the suitably disguised receiver and barrel of the rifle on an intentionally randomizing mount pointing where a politician is speechifying, tag the legislator via a phone link as soon as they're in sight, then walk away. A timer on the trigger can keep clicking away after a preset interval to get the job done.

    Who knows, this might be the Colt Peacemaker of our day?

  20. Firing blind by dohzer · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Will the be a version that blind people can use too?

    1. Re:Firing blind by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1
      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
  21. Re: Apply liberal amounts of gloss. by O('_')O_Bush · · Score: 4, Informative

    250 yards is not particularly far away with a fast/flat cartridge like 5.56 NATO.
    My ballistic calculator says that given the torso is, on average, 18" across, this system could aim dead center/upper chest (zeroed for 100 yds) and with no correction at all, hit its target correcting for elevation and windage for +/- 17mph wind with M855.

    I am actually fairly unimpressed by this. Any dope can make a 300 yard shot with an AR on a head sized target and telescopic sights. If this was able to make those shots at 500+ yds, that would really be something.

    --
    while(1) attack(People.Sandy);
  22. Re:good god by Lord+Kano · · Score: 1

    To be fair, there are the tacti-tards who love to bump fire from the hip. I have seen them at the range.

    LK

    --
    "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
  23. Re:a rifle with 100 percent accuracy by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

    Get your FLOSS personalities right: Eric S Raymond is the gun nut.

    Is he a member of Geeks with Guns? I have never seen him at any of our shoots.

  24. AR-15 by easyTree · · Score: 1

    Ideal for home defence.

  25. Re:Question by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    Only as long as they get to choose the targets. It's much less fun if your enemy gets to pick who gets to bite the bullet.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  26. Linux? by sound+vision · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Does anyone know what benefit is actually provided by using Linux? This is precisely the type of embedded system with life-or-death consequences where I'd expect to see the entire thing done in heavily-audited assembly, or something close to it, interfacing directly with the hardware, with no OS to get in the way.
    Certainly I'd trust it more than a Windows CE-based weapon, and I suppose if you want to reduce your attack surface, open source is the way to go - you can cut out the components that aren't needed. But, even still - I see little reason for an operating system to be there, except for convenient/cheap/fast development.

    1. Re:Linux? by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2

      The guys just really wanted to give Linux a boost by creating the killer app.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:Linux? by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      But, even still - I see little reason for an operating system to be there, except for convenient/cheap/fast development.

      Don't discount those. Which would you rather own shares in? The mid-sized company with significant revenues but with a core product that has design issues requiring a significant overhaul? Or, the failed start-up that had a great design but which didn't get to market before the money ran out or the aforementioned mid-sized company gobbled up 99% market share?

  27. Re:Why didn't they use Windows? by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Funny

    Hmm... let's see...

    1. You get asked at least 3 times whether you're really, really sure you want to kill that file, I mean target.
    2. Just when you're about to take a shot, your rifle insists that it needs to install upgrades, then shuts down without even asking you.
    3. You pull the trigger, your sights get grey, you hear a ping and get asked whether you want to allow or deny that shot.
    4. In the next version of your gun your sights and trigger get replaced by huge, unwieldy and flashy tiles that you have to lug around, where nobody on this planet can explain why you need them (allegedly they're great for those Navy guys, why you need them in the infantry is explained with an attempt to unify the troops), and it will take at least a year of complaining from your whole platoon 'til you get your old sights and trigger back. And even then only if you ask for them.
    5. Your gun would come without cleaning equipment, without safety and a few other things (unless you bought the "ultimate" version), but you'd get a free deck of playing cards.
    6. Cleaning the gun is a hassle and a half. Technically, what people do instead is throwing it away once it gets so dirty that you can't shoot reliably anymore and get a new one.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  28. One simple answer. by khasim · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The simple answer is that there is no simple answer.

    There is one simple answer.

    People (on average) are less afraid of things that they are FAMILIAR with and that they FEEL they have more control over. So people are comfortable driving to the airport but worry about the flight.

    People are scared of "terrorists" killing them but are, statistically, more likely to be killed by someone in their own family.

    So the scariest thing would be someone that you don't know who is planning to kill you or your child for a reason you don't understand.

    But the reality is that if you're living in the USofA and you're white then you will die from the food you've chosen to eat and the exercise that you've chosen to skip. But since you have control over that (I'll start tomorrow) and it's familiar you won't worry about it.

  29. Re:I will defend my home with these by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    All a matter of ammo.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  30. Re:Apply liberal amounts of gloss. by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2

    So does a stinger. Better warhead. Heat seeking is easy with all that hot air and inflated sense of importance.

    --
    Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  31. Someone who reads random gun stuff on the net by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 5, Informative

    It is amazing how much misinformation flies around about guns. One of the common ones is "OMG the M4/16 is such crap, the AK is so much bettar!"

    You are quite correct about the range. The AR-15 platform weapons are much more accurate. Anyone who has ever fired both can easily tell that.

    The issue that people like the grandparent conflate is the lethality of the 5.56x45mm round at longer ranges. Though the M16 can easily hit a target at long range (with a skilled marksman operating it), because of the small size and low mass of the round, it is often not as effective as you would want. If the bullet does not fragment or tumble, it can go right through someone and the small hole does little damage.

    That is the issue it has at range, not accuracy or ability to reach that range.

    Also this isn't like it is some completely unknown, or unsolvable, thing. The military also has weapons that use 7.62x51mm rounds which are larger rifle bullets and have much greater range, mass, and kinetic energy. For longer engagements still things like 8.58Ã--70mm and 12.7Ã--99mm are used.

    Of course as you move up in caliber and amount of propellant, weapons become bigger and heavier, and have larger amounts of recoil to deal with, it is always a tradeoff and is one reason why the standard personal weapons use 5.56.

    In terms of 5.56x45mm vs 7.62Ã--39mm (which is what the AK uses, is is not the same as the larger NATO round) the real issues come up at medium range (100-300m) and with barrier penetration. The light, high velocity 5.56 round tends to be fantastically lethal below 100m because the high velocity results in fragmentation when it hits the target. However since military rounds may not be specifically designed to fragment or expand (the Geneva convention prohibits it, civilian and police rounds are available that do), as it slows down at greater ranges they lose that ability and are not as damaging. Also, because of their low mass and tendency to fragment they are poor performers when shooting through barriers like windshields, doors, and so on.

    THAT is the issue the rounds have in general use vs 7.62Ã--39mm rounds. Not long ranges. While they aren't super effective beyond 300m, they are reasonably accurate at least, which is not the case with the 7.62 rounds. At a long range engagement an M4 would be at a decided advantage to an AK-47.

    However neither was designed for long range use. They are carbines, made for medium range and below. They trade overall power and range for smaller size, lower weight, and better portability. As their widespread use in many conflicts around the world indicates, they do well in that arena.

    1. Re:Someone who reads random gun stuff on the net by trout007 · · Score: 1

      There were also issues when firing the same cartridge from the original length barrel
      Vs the shortened barrel.

      --
      I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
    2. Re:Someone who reads random gun stuff on the net by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Geez, another limbaugh-type master of the half-truth. Am so very glad that 'gun stuff on the net' has enabled your brilliance.

      Former marine here - and the 5.56 NATO ball round does NOT fragment unless there is some intervening hard mass (concrete, rebar, etc). The boys in Afga were routinely taking 200m head shots and 400m body shots. And we qualify at 500m with both the M16 and M4 - whether you will be a cook or technician or infantry, you do not get out of boot camp until you can qualify. And you have to re-qual at least once per annum.

      The AK is designed for reliability and for use by idiots - assuming that only simple ball round used. The M16 is designed for reliability for use by disciplined well-trained personnel, and not necessarily limited to just ball rounds. The AKs tend to start having accuracy problems past 200m, while the M4 is just fine at 500m.

      The only reason American police have 'problems' with M16-type weapons is because of ignorance and attitude - poor training and total lack of disciplined fire control.

      Larger caliber, and much heavier, rifles are typically for use by the unit's designated marksmen, or the actual sniper dudes. Snipers generally do not have to hump 45kg of gear 10-20km every day. So mass for a battle rifle is very important for how relevant infantry (army rangers and marines) typically operate.

    3. Re:Someone who reads random gun stuff on the net by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 1

      You may have qualified on shooting a rifle, you apparently didn't qualify on reading since you are criticizing me by repeating things I said, like the fact that M4/16 are very accurate to long ranges, and that there are larger rounds in use for longer ranges. So perhaps spend more time reading and comprehending, and less time pulling out your (alleged) credentials and repeating what was already said as though it is something new.

      As for fragmentation first off you act as though it is a bad thing when talking about a target. Quite the opposite. A round that fragments, expands, or tumbles in a person does much more damage and thus has a higher probability of stopping the target in a single shot.

      In terms of fragmentation on other barriers: Try it. Shoot through a window, a couple sheets of drywall, etc. Put a paper target a bit behind it so you can see what happens. At short (less than 100m) range, the round will usually fragment on account of its high velocity. Depends on the round composition, of course, 62gr M855 will fragment less than a 75gr BTHP round. They don't explode in to tiny specs if that is what you are thinking but they break apart.

  32. Re:Question by phantomfive · · Score: 1

    we could consider infant diarrhoea, which kills a couple million children per year and can be cured with a few pennies' worth of salt?

    Really? Are you sure just a little salt can solve that problem?

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  33. Re:Question by swedishsax · · Score: 2
    As someone who has spent a lot of time in both the armed forces and the defence industry, please allow me to disabuse you of the notion that technology, any technology, has any impact on collateral damage. In WWII there was widespread collateral damage from strategic bombing of industrial centres. If such a full-scale war between roughly equal powers were waged today, with our smart bombs and pin-point accuracy missiles, the exact same thing would happen. This is because while technology advances, the objectives of war remain the same.

    In this particular case, "intended" is not the same as "illuminated". The gun doesn't know what your intended target is, only what you light up. If you point it at a child, that's what it will track: the responsibility is yours. Or put another way, guns don't stop people from killing people - people do.

    This product is marketed as a way to improve accuracy and record shot videos, not to make the gun safer. Weapons are inherently unsafe, and the only way to make one safe is to destroy it.

  34. Re:Question by nospam007 · · Score: 3, Informative

    'Australia banned guns: Sure, there are no school massacres but the murder rate hasn't decreased.'

    You're reading the wrong newspaper, the Washington Post says otherwise.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

    "So what have the Australian laws actually done for homicide and suicide rates? Howard cites a study (pdf) by Andrew Leigh of Australian National University and Christine Neill of Wilfrid Laurier University finding that the firearm homicide rate fell by 59 percent, and the firearm suicide rate fell by 65 percent, in the decade after the law was introduced, without a parallel increase in non-firearm homicides and suicides. That provides strong circumstantial evidence for the law's effectiveness."

  35. Re:Question by GCsoftware · · Score: 1

    Yup. Salt (well a sachet of infant electrolyte mix) and access to clean water would solve that problem as the kids tend to die from dehydration.

    Not in ALL cases but the death rate would definitely go down. Back when I was working as a dive master on the coast of the Sinai desert, we used to take the baby rehydration sachets all the time if we'd overindulged in the post-diving beers the night before.

  36. It's the year of the.... by kuzb · · Score: 1

    ....Linux deathtop?

    --
    BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
  37. Re:Why didn't they use Windows? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    And on Linux:
    Because linux couldn't possibly have any problems, right?

    1) you pull the trigger and nothing happens
    2) after 2 hours of manpages, you realize you need to add a switch to the command before you pull the trigger
    3) you add the switch, pull the trigger and nothing happens
    4) you write a bash script to automate pre-firing procedures
    5) you pull the trigger and nothing happens
    6) after 4 hours of trawling over stackoverflow, you figure out where the log files are. They reveal a permissions problem with the bullet
    7) you fix the permissions and pull the trigger, and the clip falls out
    8) it turns out there are actually 3 triggers, and you've been pulling the wrong one the entire time
    9) you reinsert the clip and attempt to guess which trigger is the right one
    10) your enemy has already shot you 25 times, step 10 is irrelevant.

  38. Re:Question by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

    There's also the fact that a fancy scope system designed to improve accuracy against relatively distant targets likely isn't worth the weight, much less the cost, for use indoors at very close range.

    It's possible that there are some would-be snipers out there, currently restrained only by incompetence; but barring those this system isn't of obvious interest for most spree killing purposes.

  39. Re:Question by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

    It's not as nice as a sanitation system good enough to prevent the problem; but ORT is pretty good at keeping you from dying of it and a great deal cheaper.

  40. Re:good god by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

    On the plus side, if you are truly tacticool, the sheer mass of black-anodized widgets rail mounted to your gun will offer substantial stability improvements during fire..

  41. Re:Apply liberal amounts of gloss. by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

    So, okay, rifle, take a picture through a scope, assuming the target doesn't move

    Motion tracking isn't exactly an untested idea. In fact, years ago, I "invented" (well, "conceived" would perhaps be a better word) almost exactly the same thing as this rifle, only mine had a target discriminator, tracker, and a 2D actuator (for automatically swinging the barrel towards the target by a modest amount).

    --
    Ezekiel 23:20
  42. Re: Apply liberal amounts of gloss. by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 2

    Perhaps this is not about accuracy at these kinds of ranges; eventually, weapons like this might be able to give you much faster reactions. E.g., you see four enemies, you press the trigger (the weapon doesn't fire), you swing the weapon across the general direction of the enemies, and it fires automatically four times at just the right time as the barrel is passing over the targets (or, more accurately, the proper aiming points).

    --
    Ezekiel 23:20
  43. Re:Question by spiritplumber · · Score: 1

    Don't you need guns, or at least giant knives, to protect yourself from the wildlife over there?

    --
    Liberty - Security - Laziness - Pick any two.
  44. Re: Apply liberal amounts of gloss. by pehrs · · Score: 5, Informative

    You would be surprised how bad people shoot in the real world... I hunt. I fire about 50 shots on big game (mostly boar, deer and moose) a year, and well over thousand if you count small game. I compete, primarily in sporting and skeet but also 300 meter rifle.

    In my experience the wast majority of shooters have a hard time hitting a deer sized targets with a rifle at 300 meters without special training. Add any sort of complication, like a little bit of stress, moving target, bad light or the like, and most people won't hit a deer sized target consistently (that is, 10 out of 10 in the heart-lung area) at 100 meters. The performance of the cartridge barely matters. Most people simply need a lot of training to aim and fire a rifle well, especially under stress.

    I spend a considerable amount of my spare time tracking down deer which were wounded by people with the "Any dope can make a 300 yard shot" attitude. They are typically not quite so tough at 4 am in the morning when we have spent a few hours tracking down the deer they wounded. While it is good training for the dogs, and it is very rewarding work, it would be better if people learned how hard it is to shoot well on distances over 100 meters.

  45. Re:a rifle with 100 percent accuracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    I've never seen any of you at People With Girlfriends or Humans That Wash either.

  46. Re:Question by Chas · · Score: 1

    Shut up and take my positive mod points!

    --


    Chas - The one, the only.
    THANK GOD!!!
  47. Re:Question by Sarten-X · · Score: 1

    Salt is the cure for the medical condition. The underlying problem is abysmal access to even that minimal amount of medical care, and that doesn't have such an easy solution.

    --
    You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
  48. Re:Question by trout007 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Go look at the real data. Homicides are declining in Austrailia and the US. Since Austrailia banned guns the firearm murder rate dropped but it dripped faster than the overall homicide rate which means that quite a few killers still decided to kill even without a gun. In the same time the US had more guns and more people carrying guns and also saw a decrease in homicides. If you remove the places with strict gun laws the homicide rate drops even further.

    --
    I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
  49. No you don't by Goonie · · Score: 1
    There's virtually nothing in the populated areas of Australia, other than other humans, that attacks humans and can be usefully defended against with a firearm.

    We have nasty spiders and snakes, but you don't use firearms to kill either of those. Both only strike humans defensively. Our large land animals are all herbivores; kangaroo, emus and cassowaries have a very nasty kick but they'll run away in preference to attacking you. Dingoes, despite the high-profile death of Azarea Chamberlain back in 1978, are basically wild dogs, and represent little threat to people.

    We also have a collection of potentially lethal acquatic species, including the Blue-Ringed Octopus, several species of jellyfish, and some sharks. Again, guns aren't a lot of use against them.

    Crocodiles, which I guess you're referring to with the giant knife reference, are the one animal that will actually try to eat an adult human. They only live in the tropical north of the country, far away from the major population centres, and any that move in near the cities in those regions are killed or relocated by professional shooters.

    So, no, you don't need a gun to protect yourself from the wildlife in Australia. And despite some myths, if you want a rifle or shotgun for hunting or target shooting, or need one for farming or pest control, you can get one in Australia. You just can't walk into a gun shop and buy an AR-15 or a big-calibre handgun for "self-defence" here. And, nearly 20 years after the changes to the gun laws, that remains overwhelmingly popular here.

    --

    Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
    --Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
  50. Automatically aimed weapon? by rossdee · · Score: 1

    How does it tell the difference between an innocent bystander and a terrorist/infidel ?

  51. Re: Apply liberal amounts of gloss. by Muad'Dave · · Score: 2

    ... it would be better if people learned how hard it is to shoot well on distances over 100 meters.

    The corollary to this is "don't shoot beyond your abilities." If you know you're inexperienced or a poor shot while under the influence of 'buck fever', don't try the long shots in the first place. These days there are plenty of does* that will basically walk right up to you for a clean, humane kill.

    *Where I live, they've basically declared open season on deer - 6 a year, three of which must be anterless, the whole 1.5 month firearms season is either-sex, plus all the bonus deer tags you can buy.

    --
    Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
  52. Evolution, not revolution by argStyopa · · Score: 1

    This merely pushes engagement ranges out once again. WWI riflemen were trained to shoot at hundreds of yards, in fact the sight-system on the old WWI bolt-action rifles is often stepped out to crazy ranges like 1200 yards. (Not that they'd actually hit anything.) It's only with the advent of general-issue personal weapons with rapid fire capability that aimed-fire ranges have shrunk in the modern era. (Some would say that they shrunk to what typical engagement ranges were ANYWAY.)

    Now, the conventional wisdom of shooting from 500 yards instead of 100 yards is shooter safety, as it gives the advantage to the shooter - the reply-fire (even if it's of large volume) is likely to be reflexive, hasty and (normally) unlikely to hit anything 500y away.

    This is no longer necessarily true. Counter-sniper systems are getting better every day - more sophisticated, quicker, and more accurate - meaning .50 cal or heavier suppressive fire can land on the shooter's position as quickly as 0.75 seconds from registering the incoming shot.

    What this means only is that infantry combat is truly entering the computer age.

    Human reflexes have been recognized to be largely too slow to perform any but the grossest weapons-release functions for air and (some) naval combat, this now means that even for infantry combat we're going to have automated rifles firing on targets, and automated systems firing back - both quicker, and better than people could do it.

    --
    -Styopa
  53. Re:Marshall McLuhan by qmetaball · · Score: 1

    well if you really wanted to, you could just park your car in their living room.

    --
    Everything is porn to somebody.
  54. Re:Apply liberal amounts of gloss. by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

    You'll have to wait a few years until they integrate radar and track the bullet's flight. The first one might miss, but the one behind that will hit exactly. By then they'll have dropped the pretense of a human pulling the trigger too.

  55. Re: Apply liberal amounts of gloss. by mjwalshe · · Score: 1

    Isn't 250m about the end of extreme range for an assault rifle like the ar15, m16, m4 of the SA 80 - this is why DMR full power rifles are making a come back.

  56. Re: Apply liberal amounts of gloss. by RailGunner · · Score: 1

    Any dope can make a 300 yard shot with an AR

    Hey! I'm not a dope!

    But otherwise, I agree. Even a non boat tailed 5.56 -- even the XM193 -- is accurate at 250 yards, and will drop a deer.

  57. Re:Question by AvitarX · · Score: 1

    I read that a single bomb is more likely to take out a strategic target in modern times than the entire payload of an entire fleet of WW2 bombers was in the 40's.

    --
    Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
  58. Re: Apply liberal amounts of gloss. by Pikoro · · Score: 2

    500m with an M16A2 is part of normal training in the Marine Corps. This is with open sights. I can put 10 rounds in an 8" circle at such distances.

    --
    "Freedom in the USA is not the ability to do what you want. It is the ability to stop others from doing what THEY want"
  59. easier said then done. by dlt074 · · Score: 1

    the US did not create Al Quaeda, stop repeating that lie.

    I do not think you realize how difficult it is to train third world people to use state of the art military equipment.

    been there done that. not even something worth doing. i give you the current state of Iraq as an example of 10 years of training flushed down the drain.

    besides these weapons should be fairly easy to neutralize by any reasonably modern military.

     

    1. Re:easier said then done. by HeckRuler · · Score: 1

      the US did not create Al Quaeda, stop repeating that lie

      Of course they didn't. That's absurd conspiracy-level bullshit. But that's not what the grandparent said. Check it:

      the way the U.S. armed the Mujahideen (al Quaeda),

      Really, Operation Cyclone look it up.

      The CIA armed, trained, and helped fund the people who went on to found Al Quaeda. Taliban too for that matter.

      I do not think you realize how difficult it is to train third world people to use state of the art military equipment.

      Quite. Operation Cyclone funneled $20 Billion into the country over the course of 10 years. Stinger missiles aren't rocket science, but you need to be trained. At least we didn't hand them something like in Ukraine with that passenger jet.

      been there done that. not even something worth doing

      DAMN STRAIGHT. Wasn't worth it back in 1980 either. Blow back is a bitch.

      besides these weapons should be fairly easy to neutralize by any reasonably modern military.

      Neutralized? You mean like with body armor? That's a good point. Someone wanting to quickly arm the rabble and pretend they're snipers would probably only have access to, you know, the smaller of the small arms. A .22 long isn't going to do much to someone wearing full protective gear, and an AK isn't a sniper rifle.

      But it lowers the bar. If they can get accurate high caliber weapons, then they don't have to have highly trained special agents to make use of them.

  60. Re:Question by phantomfive · · Score: 1

    Is that because mother's milk doesn't have enough salt?

    If I had known the cure were that easy, I would have told more people. One problem is that people just don't know that is the cure (even if they are worried about diarrhoea as an issue)

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  61. Re:Question by phantomfive · · Score: 1

    WTF is ORT

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  62. Re:Question by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

    Oral Rehydration Therapy. The preferred version is slightly more complex; but it's pretty much a sugar/salt solution in water, designed to replenish lost fluids without causing electrolyte issues if consumed in large quantities. Cheap and easy to do without much equipment or medical expertise.

  63. Re: Apply liberal amounts of gloss. by mjwalshe · · Score: 1

    true but can you do the same with a short barrel M4 which seems to being much more widely used these days with a DMR being used for longer range as was found in Afghanistan.

  64. Re:good god by Patent+Lover · · Score: 1

    Most Tactical AR15... EVER! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

  65. Re:Question by dcollins · · Score: 1

    Why don't you cite data like GP did? It's like you're going out of your way for people to disbelieve you.

    --
    We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
  66. Re:Question by Sarten-X · · Score: 1

    Is that because mother's milk doesn't have enough salt?

    In short, yes. It's a problem mostly in places where the mother's milk doesn't have enough of pretty much anything, but salt's the one that kills first.

    Consider a place where an average salary is $40 a month. Unfortunately, there are millions of people (infants and mothers included) who live where half of that would be considered a wealthy income. Surely you've seen the desolate scenes on TV where they ask for some number of cents per day to buy little Mary a pair of shoes to walk over the rocky debris to school... We're talking about those places, and worse.

    These are places where having clean water isn't as great a concern as having any water. Most of the local population is undernourished, including the mothers. Without proper nutrition, they produce too little milk, and what they do produce is too poor in nutrients to support the infant.

    From a biological perspective, salt is fascinating*. In the body, it serves to provide many of the ions needed to control molecules, and it holds water in various places. That's why eating salty food makes you feel dehydrated - your salty blood pulls water from the other tissue. Similarly, when that salt makes its way to your urine, more water is pulled with it, making you urinate more (spawning many myths (and some facts) about salty drinks cleansing the body).

    In an infant with a salt deficiency, the lack of salt prevents the intestines from working properly, as the cellular channels lack the energy to open. That prevents nutrients (including salt) from being absorbed into the blood. The blood's low salt level stops the absorption of water, leaving the feces liquid, which will quickly be released, carrying the vital salt with it. Where an adult would be able to hold their stool in longer or try to eat more food to compensate for the lower absorption rate, an infant can't do that of its own will, and the mother can't just produce more milk on demand, especially if she's also undernourished.

    The cure is a solution - one of "clean" water with salt and sugar (as fuzzyfuzzyfungus noted above), that can easily be absorbed, raising the blood's salt level, allowing more nutrients and water to be absorbed.

    If I had known the cure were that easy, I would have told more people. One problem is that people just don't know that is the cure (even if they are worried about diarrhoea as an issue)

    Unfortunately, it's also not as easy as telling people on the Internet about the condition. People with access to the Internet aren't likely to be affected by it. It is pretty common knowledge among related volunteer organizations, but there is a severe lack of knowledge in the local communities where the problem is deadly. There are many medical volunteer groups, and they do great work... but the problem is bigger than their limited resources can cover.

    * My biochemistry knowledge is remembered from five years ago. The facts presented may or may not be entirely true.

    --
    You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
  67. Re: Apply liberal amounts of gloss. by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

    No, you don't. I've been thinking of applying computer vision to this problem for years. CV also gives you lead calculation for moving targets, barrel angular velocity vector estimation (track the background and filter the data with Kalman or something) and rough but probably quite satisfactory estimate of target distance for short-range and mid-range firing (just assume the running figure is 1.7 meters tall and you won't be off by more than, say 15%), so you might even be able to omit the rangefinder and inertial sensors and do it purely in software - a DSP, FPGA, or even a mass-produced ASIC is probably going to be much cheaper than these precision measurement instruments. That doesn't extend to long distances, of course, but most fighters don't shoot at long distances these days. That's why they can afford to fire with 5.56x45, of course.

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    Ezekiel 23:20
  68. Re:good god by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

    Bump firing will get you 86ed from all ranges. You knew that.

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  69. Re:Why didn't they use Windows? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    And this is why there is a shooting range where you can iron out all those kinks. Jeeeeesh, Windows people. They go unprepared and without any clue into an undertaking and then blame the system for them being unprepared and dumb.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  70. Re:Apply liberal amounts of gloss. by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    I doubt there is a politician on this planet that would warrant the expense of a stinger. Also, it's a weapon for air targets, not hot-air targets.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  71. Re: Apply liberal amounts of gloss. by Amazing+Proton+Boy · · Score: 1

    The M4 is fully capable of hitting man-size targets out to 500M with close to the same accuracy as an M16. The barrel is only a little shorter. Additionally, I don't understand your point? Both rifles are designed for a range of engagement distances.

  72. Re:Question by phantomfive · · Score: 1

    Unfortunately, it's also not as easy as telling people on the Internet about the condition.

    Yes, but I haven't always lived in places where the internet is common. I've met people who knew that this was a problem, and worried about it, but didn't know the solution and I didn't know what to tell them either.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  73. Change to a railgun. by WindBourne · · Score: 1

    Seriously, this would be better used on a tri-pod mounted railgun that is used to guard a base.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  74. that is an interesting thought. by WindBourne · · Score: 1

    Sounds good to me. I think a railgun that shoots out the weapons and their depots would make sense. Then have troops follow in and then decide if they need to shoot or noth.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  75. Didn't work out too well.. by Steele+Clifton+Park · · Score: 1

    For Jack Black, did it?

  76. Re:good god by Lord+Kano · · Score: 1

    Not all ranges.

    The club to which I belong only forbids uncontrolled bump fire. Meaning, if you have a bump fire stock, you can control it and it's allowed.

    LK

    --
    "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
  77. Re:Question by trout007 · · Score: 1

    Because we have the internet and I think asking people to do a little of their own research is better than linking to studies that I could have cherry picked myself.

    The OP didn't link to stats but a Washington Post article. Go look up official crime stats from both countries.

    --
    I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
  78. Re:Question by dcollins · · Score: 1

    If you can't bother, then I'll take your lead and not bother either. Defaulting to disbelieving you.

    --
    We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
  79. Re: Apply liberal amounts of gloss. by O('_')O_Bush · · Score: 1

    250m is about the end of extreme range for a .22 LR carbine.

    M4s/M16s are towards the end of their legs at 600m. DMRs like the SPR go out to about 800m. Military bolt guns reach out to 1100m and beyond.

    --
    while(1) attack(People.Sandy);
  80. Re:From the hip? by philip.paradis · · Score: 1

    I firmly dispute the ability to move faster and easier with a weapon at hip level, and this is from personal experience moving while firing. Firing a rifle from the hip while moving is at best a waste of ammunition which you're likely to wish you'd used more carefully thereafter, and at worst an invitation for adversaries to leverage the opportunity to eliminate you with reduced fear of being hit themselves.

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    Write failed: Broken pipe