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DEA Paid Amtrak Employee To Pilfer Passenger Lists

Via Ars Technica comes news that an Amtrak employee was paid nearly $900,000 over the last ten years to give the DEA passenger lists outside of normal channels. Strangely enough, the DEA already had access to such information through official channels. From the article: The employee, described as a "secretary to a train and engine crew" in a summary obtained by the AP, was selling the customer data without Amtrak's approval. Amtrak and other transportation companies collect information from their customers including credit card numbers, travel itineraries, emergency contact info, passport numbers, and dates of birth. When booking tickets online in recent years, Amtrak has also collected phone numbers and e-mail addresses. ... Amtrak has long worked closely with the DEA to track drug trafficking activity on its train lines. The Albuquerque Journal reported in 2001 that "a computer with access to Amtrak's ticketing information sits on a desk in the [DEA]'s local office," wrote the ACLU.

66 of 127 comments (clear)

  1. Let's play the who goes to jail game.... by wbr1 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    This sounds like a case of the left hand doesn't know what the right is doing. While neither collection method sounds constitutional to me I am not surprised.

    Let's guess who gets in trouble...
    The employee selling the data..check (low level scape goat)
    Maybe an IT guy that allowed excessive permission.. maybe he just gets fired...
    Any DEA agents or upper level management who authorized illegal and warrant-less data collection? NO
    Any Amtrak executives for allowing it to be provided (through the employee or the terminal in the DEA office?) NO
    If we are lucky we will hear some strong words at a congressional hearing, and that will be the end of it.

    --
    Silence is a state of mime.
    1. Re:Let's play the who goes to jail game.... by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      Well, let's look at the pattern in an attempt to predict the future:

      Manning walks in and gets the data. Government doesn't learn from that ...

      Snowden walks in and gets the data. Government doesn't learn from that ...

      Now this guy ...

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    2. Re:Let's play the who goes to jail game.... by NotDrWho · · Score: 1

      No one. Because they'll say it was to protect national security and so everyone will just look the other way.

      --
      SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
    3. Re:Let's play the who goes to jail game.... by penix1 · · Score: 2

      The one that needs to go to jail is the one whose signature is on the bottom of the checks.

      [she was] paid nearly $900,000 over the last ten years to give the DEA passenger lists outside of normal channels

      That's the part that is sickening to me.

      --
      This is a sig. This is only a sig. Had this been an actual sig you would have been informed where to tune for more sigs.
    4. Re:Let's play the who goes to jail game.... by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      Or log avoidance. The secure access station probably keeps detailed logs which could be used to reveal fishing expeditions, an out-of-channels approach like this leaves no paper trail which could then come back to bit someone.

    5. Re:Let's play the who goes to jail game.... by Khyber · · Score: 2, Funny

      Drug traffickers shouldn't have access to the Amtrak database which would allow them to see if they're being monitored in the first fucking place. What pseudo-IT nonsense are you talking about?

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    6. Re:Let's play the who goes to jail game.... by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      Logging this type of thing wouldn't be a matter for the OS, it'd be a matter for the database software. I know MySQL supports it, I imagine all major RDBM software does. Doesn't mean it was enabled.

    7. Re:Let's play the who goes to jail game.... by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      He's speculating that the drug traffickers might have paid an Amtrak IT person to tell them if they were being monitored. That's what he meant when he said "mole in Amtrak's organization."

      It's a plausible idea, but hardly justifies the DEA's action (especially since, if the DEA suspected a mole, they surely wouldn't have failed to find and remove him in that ten-year period -- or if they did fail at that, then they're incompetent and don't deserve to exist anyway!).

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    8. Re:Let's play the who goes to jail game.... by INT_QRK · · Score: 1

      Key questions include: a. what budget line item did the $900K come from?; b. what did the funding justification documentation look like?; and, c. at what level was this approved, and by whom? If DEA has so much money laying about that they can toss it around without adult supervision, then I suggest that there may be some oversight committees who might want to have some hearings.

    9. Re:Let's play the who goes to jail game.... by Khyber · · Score: 1

      "He's speculating that the drug traffickers might have paid an Amtrak IT person to tell them if they were being monitored"
      "It's a plausible idea"

      Plausible but hardly easy to pull off considering the DEA would watch you almost every minute after informing you until they've caught their guy.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    10. Re:Let's play the who goes to jail game.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      He's speculating that the drug traffickers might have paid an Amtrak IT person to tell them if they were being monitored.

      The drug trafficker's mole wouldn't tell them that the mules are specifically being monitored, but rather they'd submit false passenger data via the regional office system (or removing that data before it hits the main (DEA-linked) database.) The DEA'd be looking for differences between the two passenger lists, the one that reaches the official system, and the list in the regional office, to see if anyone in a regional office is playing with the data to hide traffic.

      From the DEA's point of view, it's an independent data integrity test.

      if the DEA suspected a mole, they surely wouldn't have failed to find and remove him in that ten-year period

      The DEA's own mole was apparently limited to a single crew. So they'd only be able to check a small number of routes/trips at any given time. Essentially they'd be looking for a drug-mole in any regional office where the DEA-mole happened to be located at that time.

    11. Re:Let's play the who goes to jail game.... by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      All the OS sees are block read-write requests. There isn't much use logging that. It wouldn't even see the requesting user, only the DBM PID.

    12. Re:Let's play the who goes to jail game.... by DarkOx · · Score: 1

      I am sure it came from all the property the cease without any kind of due process. The DEA like the NSA is so out of control and so culturally broken the ONLY viable solution is complete dissolution of the agency. The cancer is so bad just outright killing the patient is the best outcome; we can't fix'em.

      Honestly we need a whole house cleaning of these two agencies (to start with) that includes pretty much anyone who has greater role than sweeping the floors or brewing coffee. Every last 'analyst' every supervisor, every IT guy. We need to ensure the current culture dies completely.

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    13. Re:Let's play the who goes to jail game.... by INT_QRK · · Score: 1

      Thing is, the NSA and the DEA both do a lot of legitimately essential work across a number of important areas. Notwithstanding any argument whether in DEA's case there might be redundancy as one of many special focus law enforcement agencies, NSA performs some unique missions nobody else does, like crypto production, for example, or performs to the same level, like coordinating foreign focused Signals Intelligence among and serving the Military branches. Also, NSA itself is so stove-piped that even if one area really was "out of control" as alleged, other parts are regular, boring, but arguably essential grunt-work for no-kidding recognizable National Security functions. The key is that regulation and oversight, which is what legitimate bureaucracy is all about, has to be consistently enforced. Bureaucratic baboonery, though ordinary and pervasive, should be astutely and vigilantly guarded against. Like entropy, systems of people will always trend towards out-of-control conditions unless well managed.

    14. Re:Let's play the who goes to jail game.... by rpstrong · · Score: 1

      "The DEA's own mole was apparently limited to a single crew. So they'd only be able to check a small number of routes/trips at any given time."

      Not at all necessarily so. The secretary had access to passenger data. There is no indication that the passenger data was linked to what crew she (or he) worked for - nor would it make sense to do so (why should Amtrak care who was driving a particular train?).

  2. independent verification? by jc42 · · Score: 2

    Maybe it's just a case of what the news industry calls "independent verification". Of course, the way it typically works is that the original source X passes copies to friends Y and Z, who slightly paraphrase the wording and send it in to the news organization through different channels. X, Y and Z then all get paid for their work. Governmental information agencies have long understood how this "verification" process works.

    --
    Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
    1. Re:independent verification? by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      Maybe it's just a case of what the news industry calls "independent verification".

      And what I like to call "the ever expanding surveillance state".

      It boils down to "fuck it, collect everything, from anywhere, without warrant or oversight, and figure out if you have anything interesting later".

      Kind of the opposite of the 4th amendment it seems.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  3. How is that possible? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Do people really have to provide passport numbers and dates of birth to get on the train in America? Unbelivable.

    1. Re:How is that possible? by Shados · · Score: 2

      Only if the train crosses a border that requires it. Amtrak trains go to and from Canada.

      Otherwise its pretty much like buying a bus ticket, except they only check the ticket while the train is on its way instead of at the entrance.

    2. Re:How is that possible? by Shadow99_1 · · Score: 1

      I'm surprised their are passenger trains at all in other parts of the country... Here in PA, Philly I think is the only city with passenger train service through Amtrak. Oh sure, we have lots of rail lines (I drive over 6 sets of tracks every day), but those are exclusively industrial transportation and not passenger lines...

      --
      we are all invisible unless we choose otherwise
    3. Re:How is that possible? by Enry · · Score: 1

      No. I've only ridden Amtrak a few times in the NE corridor from Boston to NY/DC and I've never had to display any form of identification to enter the station or board.

    4. Re:How is that possible? by jratcliffe · · Score: 1

      Amtrak runs from Philly West to Pittsburgh, and from there north toward Cleveland and south toward DC. Lots of stops through central PA. There's also commuter rail (SEPTA) in the Philadelphia area.

    5. Re:How is that possible? by N!k0N · · Score: 1

      I'm surprised their are passenger trains at all in other parts of the country... Here in PA, Philly I think is the only city with passenger train service through Amtrak. Oh sure, we have lots of rail lines (I drive over 6 sets of tracks every day), but those are exclusively industrial transportation and not passenger lines...

      Amtrak runs over CSX/NS/UP/etc.-owned trackage with infinite-length trackage rights (i.e. ability to travel over "foreign" rail) due to the US government taking over the (failing) passenger rail service from the former large railroads (NKP, PRR, NYC, etc.) in 1971.

      Amtrak says they have service to Altoona, Ardmore, Coatesville, Connellsville, Cornwells Heights, Downington, Elizabethtown, Erie, Exton Greensburg, Harrisburg, Huntingdon, Johnstown, Lancaster, Lantrobe, Lewistown, Middletown, Mount Joy, North Philadelphia, Paoli, Parkersburg, Philadelphia (30th Street), Pittsburgh, and Tyrone. Granted that most (if not all) of these stations probably have service at some godawful time, like 0300, due to proximity to NYC, and the schedule between NYC and Chicago (1 train daily, leaving at approx 1800, and arriving at the other end at approx 0600 the following morning).

  4. the important question is.... by Lumpy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Has the DEA been sending him a yearly 1099 for taxes? if not, then the IRS needs to audit the DEA.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  5. From endangered to extinct by rmdingler · · Score: 3, Funny
    From now on, if somebody-somewhere-for some reason, keeps records of my comings, goings, and preferences, I will be under the assumption some governmental 3 letter acronym has instant access to this information.

    Articles such as this will henceforth only be of interest to me if they include examples where my data is not collected.

    Whirrr...click. Adjustment Bureau confirms your new filter parameters.

    --
    Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

    Ernest Hemingway

    1. Re:From endangered to extinct by thieh · · Score: 1

      Certainly. Your voter information will probably not be collected by the Election Bureaus/Agencies

    2. Re:From endangered to extinct by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

      Check your local copy of the Constitution - see anything in there about the government tracking your whereabouts? No? Interesting.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    3. Re:From endangered to extinct by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Yes. The Constitution enumerates what the governement is allowed to do. It doesn't say it's allowed to track citizens. That means the Feds aren't allowed to do it. (It says nothing, however, about what the states are allowed to do.)

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  6. Circomventing controlls by Charliemopps · · Score: 1

    Sounds like someone was circumventing controls. The DEA had access... but did everyone in the DEA have access? I doubt it. One department likely had the data and getting to it either required evidence some didn't want to bother with, or was political, or maybe involved transferring money from your department to the controlling department. I've seen businesses where IS has control of an application, but what they claimed it cost per license was high enough that another department went out and bought the application themselves. I can't help but think this is the sort of thing that lead to this.

    1. Re:Circomventing controlls by rahvin112 · · Score: 1

      I see this as very similar to the parallel construction method. The DEA likely has controls on the information and logs requests to see it, by paying the Amtrak employee separately they can argue they never looked at the passenger information because it's not logged in the request. The defense can't say they used improper search methods because the log shows they never accessed it.

      I'd be willing to be someone is in jail right now because of this information being accessed outside normal channels and had the defense known about it they would have been able to get the evidence thrown out.

    2. Re:Circomventing controlls by Razed+By+TV · · Score: 1
      That was my first thought before reading the article. Pay the employee, no hassle and red rape to worry about getting caught up in. However, FTFA:

      Under a joint drug enforcement task force that includes the DEA and Amtrakâ(TM)s own police agency, the task force can obtain Amtrak confidential passenger reservation information at no cost, the inspector generalâ(TM)s report said. Under an agreement, Amtrak police would receive a share of any money seized as a result of such drug task force investigations, and Amtrakâ(TM)s inspector general concluded that DEAâ(TM)s purchase of the passenger information deprived the Amtrak Police Department of money it would have received from resulting drug arrests.

      So it may simply be that there was a lot of money to be made by screwing Amtrak out of it.

  7. Perfectly normal business by MadKeithV · · Score: 5, Funny

    Sounds like perfectly normal business to me. Getting paid $900.000 to tell you something you already know? That's called Consulting.

  8. the DEA isnt about drugs. by nimbius · · Score: 4, Informative

    This is probably rather controversial, but it should be said. The DEA was never created in order to police drugs.
    Richard Nixon created the DEA in part as a reaction to the 60's neo liberal counter culture, and in part at the behest of southern constituents in response to the 1964 civil rights amendment. this is evidenced by the fact that the DEA targets disproportionally minority communities for enforcement, regardless of the well documented fact that affluent communities exhibit similar levels of drug posession. its also supported by the lack of any DEA presence or investigation during the iran contra scandal as well as the existence of numerous politicians and heads of state whom have repeatedly divulged their consumption of narcotics despite our nations zero tolerance policy.

    as the push for drug sentencing reform continues, the DEA is finding itself increasingly useless as anything but an obstructionist wing of the government clinging for federal dollars. Blowing a million dollars on an amtrak mole despite existing access is just one example, but their raids on California dispensaries and legislative obstructionism shouldnt be ignored. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.
    1. Re:the DEA isnt about drugs. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You realize those California dispensaries may be legal according to state law. but run afoul of federal law because of the federal prohibition on drugs.

      because? i don't know why...why did it take a constitutional amendment to ban alcohol but did not require one for other drugs?
      i believe they often use the interstate commerce clause...but if the state views it as legal and it never crossed state lines, then it seems the fed's shouldn't be able to touch it.

    2. Re:the DEA isnt about drugs. by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      I don't see how controversial it can really be, given that there's ample evidence for it. This book dedicates a whole chapter to the formation of DEA and other related actions (introduction of no-knock raids, for example) of the Nixon administration, plotting the timeline against the political rhetoric.

  9. Hard to know which to be more disgusted by.. by Rigel47 · · Score: 2

    The staggering idiocy of paying a million dollars for something you already have or the all-too-common practice of law enforcement to regard the Constitution as an irritating afterthought.

  10. Theft? by bradley13 · · Score: 2

    Surely this is illegal? I know that the US has no privacy laws, but it is still theft. Both he and the individuals purchasing the stolen data should be prosecuted.

    Of course, it won't happen because "War on Drugs", and anyway, anything the US government wants is ok.

    --
    Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
    1. Re:Theft? by PPH · · Score: 1

      Amtrak is publicly funded. So the issue of whether theft was involved or it was an instance of interagency data sharing might be a bit cloudy.

      Certainly this sort of transaction shoud be covered in Amtrak's corporate policies and procedures. I seriously doubt a low level employee could engage in such activity without approval from higher up. On the other hand, the absense such policies is a sure sign of bad management.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
  11. You can't travel anonymously... by mi · · Score: 1, Interesting

    This sounds like a case of the left hand doesn't know what the right is doing.

    Why? Seems like exactly the opposite — DEA does know, Amtrak has the information, and DEA arranged for the information to be available to them at ease...

    While neither collection method sounds constitutional to me I am not surprised.

    I'm not surprised either, but I don't see, how this is unconstitutional. The Constitution has nothing on the right to travel and, if you ask a government official, you'll quickly realize, they consider traveling to be a privilege instead.

    You can not buy an Amtrak ticket anonymously. And you can not give your ticket to anyone else. With air-tickets this fraud was put upon us (years before 9/11) with the argument, that the airline and the law-enforcement need to screen the passenger names against list of criminals — so they need to know all names in advance.

    But most Amtrak tickets are purchased within hours before departure, AFAIK, so this argument would not hold.

    The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground.

    Thomas Jefferson

    We need the traveling to be explicitly declared a right, that only the Judiciary can suspend after a trial — rather than a mere privilege, that the Executive can withdraw on their whim (such as by adding you to a "no-fly" list) or, indeed, demanding to "see your papers" (and recording them for future use).

    I can't see it happening any time soon, though. Bushitler-created TSA has only expanded under the Nobel Peace Prize Administration — and now insists on covering not just air-travel, but all mass transit. Driving a personal car has required a government permission for near a century, and being driven by someone else is increasingly difficult too.

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    1. Re:You can't travel anonymously... by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      We already have freedom of movement, which is enshrined in the Constitution, as interpreted by case law.

      What we don't have is freedom of anonymous movement.

    2. Re:You can't travel anonymously... by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      We already have freedom of movement, which is enshrined in the Constitution, as interpreted by case law.

      What we don't have is freedom of anonymous movement.

      The law doesn't state you have freedom to use any means of transport available. You can be banned from airlines, trains, buses, and your rights technically aren't infringed because you can still walk or drive your car (assuming it's fully legal), or hitch a ride in a friend's vehicle.

      So yeah, you have freedom of movement without regards to practicality.

    3. Re:You can't travel anonymously... by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      Freedom of movement is not freedom if it does not apply to all equally.

      Like people on GPS bracelets to ensure they do not leave the state.

      I was under the impression that people were only required to wear GPS bracelets when they were on probation (or maybe on bond), as a "nicer" alternative to jail. Are you trying to claim that some people are being forced to wear GPSs in circumstances other than being ordered to do so by a court, or are you trying to claim that probation and/or bail are unconstitutional?

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    4. Re:You can't travel anonymously... by Qzukk · · Score: 1

      We're not throwing you in jail without a trial, we're merely restricting your "privilege" to travel more than 6 feet in any direction.

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
    5. Re:You can't travel anonymously... by houghi · · Score: 1

      I'm not surprised either, but I don't see, how this is unconstitutional

      If that is true, that is your problem right there. (I would say it would be against the Fourth Amendment as I would say it is an unreasonable search)

      If there is nothing to protect your right to privacy, then you will have no privacy. To me if you do not have th right to privacy, all the other rights will be compromised.

      Just ask a European what they think privacy is and you will see that it is much more that just the stuff you do at home when you are alone. It inclused everything you do and what defines you as a person. That is the startingpoint.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    6. Re:You can't travel anonymously... by Khyber · · Score: 1

      "I was under the impression that people were only required to wear GPS bracelets when they were on probation (or maybe on bond), as a "nicer" alternative to jail."

      Nope, you only need be under suspicion of a crime. All it takes.

      Want the picture of the one currently around my ankle?

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    7. Re:You can't travel anonymously... by mi · · Score: 1

      Like people on GPS bracelets to ensure they do not leave the state.

      The bracelets are an alternative to being in jail — having your freedoms suspended by the Judiciary, not Executive. Executive can arrest you — limiting your freedoms temporarily — but they can not deprive a citizen of his rights for very long without a successful a successful trial.

      Try again when you have been around the world, checked out the laws and rights enshrined within those laws, been arrested under those laws

      I've been around the world quite a bit, but I have never been arrested. Nor do I accept that as a requirement to holding (and putting forth) an opinion.

      I can still enter the UK despite my last trip causing a ton of problems with the Bobbies.

      But Michael Savage can not — without causing the Bobbies any problems whatsoever.

      The only countries on the American landmass that are stupid about shit like this are the USA and Canada.

      Stupid like what? Keeping understandables out? I would not call it "stupid" — quite the contrary — but, unfortunately, we aren't that. Not any more...

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    8. Re:You can't travel anonymously... by mi · · Score: 1

      Nope, you only need be under suspicion of a crime. All it takes.

      It takes a judge's decision — as the terms of your release before trial. Judiciary can suspend your rights. Executive should not be able to — but, in the case of travel, they do just that with the "no-fly" lists. Which was my point.

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    9. Re:You can't travel anonymously... by mi · · Score: 1

      The law doesn't state you have freedom to use any means of transport available. You can be banned from airlines, trains, buses, and your rights technically aren't infringed because you can still walk

      If the First Amendment were interpreted this way, you could be banned from using newspapers or radio for your speech — and it would not have been an infringement, because you can still talk to your friends...

      drive your car

      Nope, that still requires a "driver's license" — a government's permission to drive your own car on any road, to which the public has legal access. And the Executive government can withdraw that permission without bothering with the Judiciary.

      or hitch a ride in a friend's vehicle.

      Nope, can't do that either. Not legally.

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    10. Re:You can't travel anonymously... by mi · · Score: 1

      The mere freedom of association includes by pretext the right to travel to associate.

      A very explicitly spelled-out right to "keep and bear arms" is readily infringed upon all over the nation. Even the most liberal locales — like Texas — require you to obtain a license. And it can be suspended even there upon a mere accusation of a crime.

      In less liberal locales — like New York — the Executive can withdraw the license at any moment and for any reason — or without reason at all. Says so on the document itself... In other words, over the generations even that right turned into a privilege.

      And that, once again, is a right, that is quite explicitly enumerated in the Constitution — for better or worse. What are we to expect for a right, that exists (or not) only by implication and must be derived from another or, worse, from the well-meaning but nebulous 9th Amendment?

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    11. Re:You can't travel anonymously... by mi · · Score: 1

      I would say it would be against the Fourth Amendment as I would say it is an unreasonable search

      Oh, but "reasonable" is a term with such a wide interpretation, you drive a train through it — sideways...

      Just ask a European what they think privacy is and you will see that it is much more that just the stuff you do at home when you are alone. It inclused everything you do and what defines you as a person. That is the startingpoint.

      Ah, yes, the famous "why can't we be more like Europe" whine.

      Well, you can not board a train anonymously in Europe either — so, in that regard, we are "like Europe" already. Or do you believe, European police don't have access to the rail passengers?.. Of course, they do — and it does not even cause an outrage, unlike here...

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    12. Re:You can't travel anonymously... by DarkOx · · Score: 1

      Given all the ridicules and bullshit mental gymnastics the government does all the time to argue they can do clearly unconstitutional things like compel you to use your private property to purchase a service you may not want; its not hard to construct a right to travel. In fact I think the right to travel is actually pretty clear.

      We have a first amendment right to peaceful assembly. In order to assemble one must be able to go to that place the assembly is taking place. (1) this should establish a basic right to right travel.

      Now can the government determine how you travel? No it can't. The tenth amendment grants any powers not enumerated for the federal government or reserved for the states to the people. No where is the an enumerated right for the government to define in what manor a citizen may travel. (2) So its clear they cannot constitutionally forbid you to fly, ride a bus or train or car, bike etc.

      Which leaves the commerce clause, where you could make an argument that transporting someone over state lines constitutes interstate commerce, so they probably have you there, but if you want to fly from say Cleveland to Cincinnati I don't believe there is any legitimate way the Federal government can interfere constitutionally, but good luck getting thru the TSA line if you are on one of their lists regardless.

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    13. Re:You can't travel anonymously... by mi · · Score: 1

      its not hard to construct a right to travel

      It is even less hard — for the government — to construct the opposite. In fact, they already did — the no-fly lists exist...

      Take a look at the Second Amendment — the right to "keep and bear arms" does not need to be constructed or otherwise derived — it is explicitly listed. And what? Even in the most liberal places — like Texas — you must have a license for it. Which means, it is not a right, but merely a privilege...

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    14. Re: You can't travel anonymously... by arwel · · Score: 1

      Where do you get that "can't board anonymously in Europe"? I do at least once a week, and millions do every day. The only check is that I'm carrying a valid ticket which I may have paid cash for 5 minutes before getting on the train with no ID (though long distance travel is considerably cheaper if you buy your ticket at least the day before).

  12. Government Dollars at Work! by kevlmark · · Score: 1

    One can only shake your head.

    1. Re:Government Dollars at Work! by bobbied · · Score: 1

      One can only shake your head.

      You can just shake your head but don't forget this lightened your wallet too.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  13. CLASS ACTION TIME! by ganjadude · · Score: 1

    hmmm, class action lawsuit? this is a security breach.

    the DEA were the hackers here, they took personal data without permission. this should be a class action suit against both amtrak and the DEA. will some lawyer out there start writing it up???

    --
    have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    1. Re:CLASS ACTION TIME! by qbast · · Score: 1

      Executive privilege bitches!

  14. Re:Weird.... by Narcocide · · Score: 1

    It pretty much goes like this:

    1) Purchase ticket using unique email address.
    2) Almost immediately receive spam to that email address from a spoofed source.
    3) Realize Amtrack is (knowingly or unknowingly) selling your personal contact information to anyone who will pay.

    It makes sense that if this Amtrack employee was selling the customer contact info database illegally to the DEA there likely were other buyers too that are much harder to catch in the act. Furthermore it makes sense that if the DEA would spend that much money buying the information illegally they'd have no qualms about reselling it once they purchased it to recoup some of the cost for other operations, or potentially even profit from it.

    In this situation Amtrack is sadly hardly unique either. This is pretty much the name of the game with most companies that require you to hand over your contact info in order to do business, regardless of what their Terms of Service might say about it. At some level in the chain of command there is always a point where someone has access to customer information that is of a value enough orders of magnitude more than their salary that the temptation to do something dishonorable far outweighs the fear of getting caught.

  15. Allowed to retire without disciplinary action by scotts13 · · Score: 1

    That's just amazing. Any company I've worked for, I'd be strung up by the heels for giving away customer data, let alone selling it for the better part of a million dollars. One article notes "It was not clear whether the DEA has rules against soliciting corporate insiders to provide confidential customer information in exchange for money." Really, they need a specific rule against that? I can see a DEA official whispering in someone's ear "Shut up, shut up, let it go and just let her retire."

  16. Criminal Embezzlement or Breach of Contract by Etherwalk · · Score: 1

    Actually, if the employee was selling Amtrak's proprietary information without Amtrak's consent and was keeping the money, they are guilty of embezzlement and DEA employees may be guilty of crimes related to arranging that activity, e.g. conspiracy or solicitation.

    If the employee was selling Amtrak's proprietary information and giving the money to Amtrak, the DEA was breaching its contract with Amtrak. The DEA has to share the proceeds of drug busts based on information that comes from Amtrak with Amtrak, and this method circumvented that deal.

  17. Amtrak informant is just one source by Trachman · · Score: 1

    Amtrak is just a one source, of many. Intelligence agencies not only get the information, but also get this information via different channels to have redundancy and to verify those copies against each other. Sources do not know about each other. That is basic rule in operations against the enemy. To begin with, most likely Amtrak serves have been hacked by NSA long time ago and they have the information directly. In addition to that they have insiders, on the payroll, to get the same data as well as interpretations on the data. Call it "customer" support. There is the last avenue, "constitutional", is to go and get subpoenas or other boring methods. Such redundancy was needed to give impression that the public has "privacy". Spying was performed first and, later, when the case was built, "different" sources were shown. All for the appearance of "privacy". Greyhound buses, Urban transit, Amazon, Ebay, iTunes, Fedex, USPS, EZ pass,: everyone has a "file" recorded in relationship databases available for query.

  18. Re:Amtrack should be working on by Khyber · · Score: 1

    Hey, babe. Take a walk on the wild side...

    --
    Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  19. Re:Amtrack should be working on by Cederic · · Score: 1

    You ignorant bigoted piece of shit. Just don't give the prostitute money, and leave her to live her life as she chooses.

  20. Re:Amtrack should be working on by azav · · Score: 1

    Yeah, no fucking way. That's fucking repulsively disgusting.

    --
    - Zav - Imagine a Beowulf cluster of insensitive clods...
  21. Re:Amtrack should be working on by Cederic · · Score: 1

    I greatly dislike prostitution. I regret that some people feel it's the only way they can earn a living. I would prefer that there wasn't a market for such services.

    None of that makes me hate people that provide such services.
    None of that makes me a bigoted twat that hates transgendered people for no reason other than my own ignorance.

    I'd rather be a clown.

  22. Re:Amtrack should be working on by alexo · · Score: 1

    Ignorant? Really?

    Bigoted against tranny prostitites? On government transportation that the public rides on? HELL, yes. Publicly visited transport should be free of this filth. You're a complete fucktard for thinking this is not completely fucking disgusting and actually supporting it's actions. Just because some assclown wants to pretend it's a woman, that certainly means that it isn't. Get that seedy shit off of national transportation that people have to pay to be on. Clown.

    The lady doth protest too much, methinks.