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The Benefits of Inequality

New submitter MutualFun sends this article from Science News: Which would you prefer: egalitarianism or totalitarianism? When it comes down to it, the choice you make may not be as obvious as you think. New research suggests that in the distant past, groups of hunter-gatherers may have recognized and accepted the benefits of living in hierarchical societies, even if they themselves weren't counted among the well-off. This model could help explain why bands of humans moved from largely egalitarian groups to hierarchical cultures in which social inequality was rife.

18 of 254 comments (clear)

  1. Why would this surprise? by digsbo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So many people refuse to think for themselves. I don't really have a problem with that, except when they persecute me for exercising that right myself.

    1. Re:Why would this surprise? by digsbo · · Score: 4, Informative

      When did I say they were idiots? I didn't. I said people refuse to think for themselves. I'm talking about people who have said, "I don't want to think about it, that's what government is for." Verbatim, and many other near variants, when I challenge the status quo on everything from the drug laws to the banking system. I actually had a guy recently say to me, after I was critical of the banking system, "Well, it's what we have, and it works." And he's a fairly intelligent guy. He just doesn't want to think about that question, because it's emotionally painful to realize how screwed up things are.

    2. Re:Why would this surprise? by gweihir · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The very definition of totalitarianism is that you do not get a choice in the matter. This "research" stinks of propaganda that may be part of a slow effort to bring people around to actually welcome totalitarianism.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  2. Or... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    We could stop automatically assuming a hierarchy has to involve unequal distribution. Perhaps being at the top of a hierarchy is enough of a social motivator that people would take on those responsibilities without taking an unequal share of everyone else's work?

    1. Re:Or... by mirix · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yeah, because the only alternative to American style inequality is Soviet style inequality, right?

      --
      Sent from my PDP-11
  3. This is not evidence; this highly simplified model by B-Town · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As a rule, I'm skeptical of everything that uses evolution to explain societal structures. Most of the time it just boils down to a nifty story devoid of any evidence. That seems to be the case here: 1) Come up with a point you want prove 2) Rejig the currently accepted but highly unrealistic assumptions in the field until the model gives the desired result 3) Publish! I see this kind of nonsense in economics papers all the time. Heartening to see that we aren't the only ones cursed with pointless theorizing.

  4. Re:False choice by 0123456 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The problem is that the road through the dictatorship of the proletariat is a dead end.

  5. Different approaches for different situations by nine-times · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Some people assume that totalitarian/hierarchical organizations are simply inherently bad, and "democracy" is inherently good. Really, it's more about the situation and context.

    For example, even in our modern "democracy", our military still uses a top-down hierarchy with a rigid chain of command. There are good reasons for this. When you're in dangerous situations, organization and timing can become vital to the survival of the group, and survival tends to trump social justice. If the military commander has a plan that requires a troop of soldiers move to a particular location in a short amount of time, you don't want people standing around debating, or wondering whether the plan is fair. You need people to follow orders immediately, or else a lot of people might die.

    There have been situations in humanity's past when this would have been true of social/governmental organizations too. If the chief needs everyone to mobilize in order to avert disaster and keep the entire tribe from being wiped out, then you don't want a lot of debate. The whole setup worked pretty well for a while.

    Of course now, things are different. Most of our lives (speaking at least of the people reading Slashdot) are relatively safe and comfortable. We don't need to follow orders immediately and unquestioningly in order to stay alive. Also, our society is larger, and the concentration of power is greater. The danger of taking time for debate is not greater than the danger of a bad ruler with absolute power over a society, so totalitarianism seems like it's not such a great idea.

    1. Re:Different approaches for different situations by mlts · · Score: 4, Insightful

      We really need different organizations. As above, the military needs to be strictly hierarchical. However, the civilian leadership needs to be representative of the people's wants. Here is my proposal:

      Instead of elections, why not have all representatives be picked from a lottery of all citizens, similar to jury duty. Instead of a jury picking a foreman, they nominate and elect a president.

      This way, the elected people are truly a cross section of the governed, voter fraud isn't an issue, and with proper enforcement of bribery laws, the big "campaign donations" that plague the US wouldn't be an issue. After four years, a new lottery takes place, and a new bunch of people get into office.

    2. Re:Different approaches for different situations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      so in other words nothing would change

  6. Intellectually dishonest by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Inequality wouldn't be so bad if we had a robust safety net and didn't fuck people at the bottom. It's one thing to be poor, it's another to have to survive day to day worrying about food, shelter, health care, etc. As long as we keep screwing people, any argument defending inequality is completely void of substance or ethics.

    1. Re:Intellectually dishonest by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I suppose that Capitalism is a step up then, making only 90-something percent equally poor and the remaining percentage astoundingly rich.

      The problem with any system is people. Pure free-market Capitalism is wonderful, but cannot exist, much like Pure Communism.
      Imagine anything else with the 'rules' as enforced by either system in the real world. A baseball game where the owner of one team simply goes out and pays the pitcher of the other team to throw easy pitches, or pays the governing body to make a rule where any team that plays their team is only allowed to take 5 steps per minute or something equally unfair.

      Economic systems usually come down to who can cheat the most effectively. If everyone did the same thing as the people that 'rise' to the top, we'd all starve to death. In any system.

    2. Re: Intellectually dishonest by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The average wealth in China and Russa increased under comunism, just not as fast as Europe or America.

  7. Re:always a lack of middle ground by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It is a common problem with absolutists. They think everything is binary when it's nested case statements with table-driven variables.

    There is no either or - there is A B C C1 C2 D E1 NULL. And the boundaries between A and B are artificial limitations not found in nature, but only in perception.

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    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  8. Totalitarianism all the way by kruach+aum · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Democracy is just a terrible system of government, but it turns out it's all we can trust ourselves with to not fuck shit up. The vote of a retard counts just as much as the vote of a genius, and that's ridiculous, but what's even more ridiculous is that everything else has turned out worse.

    Ideally we would be ruled by a benevolent artificial intelligence who can determine without outside input what is best for everyone.

  9. Math loves to be Anthromorphized! by Prien715 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Terrible summary and title.

    From TFA:
    Our model predicts that the transition to larger despotic groups will then occur when: (i) surplus resources lead to demographic expansion of groups, removing the viability of an acephalous niche in the same area and so locking individuals into hierarchy; (ii) high dispersal costs limit followers' ability to escape a despot. Empirical evidence suggests that these conditions were probably met, for the first time, during the subsistence intensification of the Neolithic.

    So availability of resources to a minority and the inability to escape cause large despotisms, much like CO2 and Greenhouse gases cause global warming. Climate science should be renamed "The Benefits of Global Warming". Or after a man's parachute fails to open he "realizes the benefits of gravity in assisting his painless disassembly".

    I know it would be odd to ask for editors to, uh, you know, edit.

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    -- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
  10. What do you mean inequality? by Savage-Rabbit · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'll take a meritocracy over a completely egaitarean society any time and I suppose that makes me in favor of inequality but I also reject the kind of society the USA has become where a few have risen to the top and roll boulders down on anybody else trying to rise by his own merit. Now feel free to color me radcal but any meritocracy will eventually become a plutocracy which is why bloody revolutions (pandemics like the black death also work wonders) are necessary at regular intervals to level the playing field. I'm not sure that's quite what Thomas Jefferson meant when he said: "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants" but it's close.

    --
    Only to idiots, are orders laws.
    -- Henning von Tresckow
  11. It's human nature by reboot246 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In any group of people some are going to be better at some tasks than others. We put value on those tasks depending on how much they're needed or wanted by society. In a society like we have today, doctors are more valuable than burger flippers so they're paid more. It's not always that simple, but that's the way we tend to perceive it.

    True superiority is actually unifying. False superiority is where the problems come from. When the king (or democratically elected government) begins to believe that they are all-knowing and infallible, people are right to oppose them.