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Why the Public Library Beats Amazon

Nate the greatest writes: The launch of Kindle Unlimited last month has many questioning the value of public libraries, with one pundit on Forbes even going so far as to proclaim that the U.K. could save money by shuttering all its libraries and replacing them with Kindle Unlimited subscriptions. Luckily for libraries, they're safe for now because they still beat Kindle Unlimited and its competitors in at least one category: content you want to read. As several reviewers have noted, Kindle Unlimited is stocked almost entirely with indie titles, with a handful of major titles thrown in. Even Scribd and Oyster only have ebooks from two of the five major U.S. publishers, while U.S. public libraries can offer titles from all five. They might be expensive and you might have to get on a waiting list, but as the Wall Street Journal points out, public libraries are safe because they can still offer a better selection. That is true, but I think the WSJ missed a key point: public libraries beat Amazon because they offer services Amazon cannot, including in-person tech support, internet access, and other basic assistance. The fact of the matter is, you can't use KU, Scribd, or Oyster if you don't know how to use your device, and your local public library is the best place to learn.

37 of 165 comments (clear)

  1. Libraries are one thing Amazon is not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    An actual place.

    1. Re:Libraries are one thing Amazon is not by tepples · · Score: 2, Insightful

      An actual place requires actual staff during operating hours and requires actual bus drivers to get patrons there and back. Not everybody wants the limits inherent in that arrangement.

    2. Re:Libraries are one thing Amazon is not by mendax · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The fact that the public library is an actual place is important. Libraries are not just places to get information. They are sometimes positioned to be social centers of communities, places for those without Internet access to get that access, a quiet place to avoid the hustle and bustle of life, a place to meet friends, a place to hold a meeting, a place to do homework and study, and so on and so on. Libraries have long since been simply a place to get the latest novel or some old classic.

      --
      It's really quite a simple choice: Life, Death, or Los Angeles.
    3. Re:Libraries are one thing Amazon is not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That is for the general public and they have damn near everything or can get it. Music, movies, books, magazines, internet access and more. Anyone saying public libraries should go away is against society in general, IMO. Not everyone can afford the niceties from Amazon, let alone even having internet access at home (if they have one) to access Amazon and order their junk.

      Amazon will never replace libraries and if libraries every do go away, our society will be much worse off because of it. Libraries are a necessary part of our educated society, but if we're headed for Idiocracy, then it won't really matter. There is no other place that someone can get access for free to all of the resources that libraries offer. The only way this will happen is if Amazon becomes a publicly funded "company" via "global tax dollars" and opens physical locations themselves and offer "memberships" for free, to ALL.

    4. Re:Libraries are one thing Amazon is not by ljw1004 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      We take my 10-month old daughter to "Baby Story Time" at nearby libraries. Last week one of the libraries brought in some zoo animals for the kids to pet.

      My iPad and SurfacePro aren't as good at telling stories to baby. There's less social interaction and she gets too fixated on the screen. Also tries to eat it.

    5. Re:Libraries are one thing Amazon is not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Where do you live that you are required to take a bus if you want to go to a library? That must be troublesome indeed - unless it's one of those buses with strippers on it.

    6. Re:Libraries are one thing Amazon is not by camperdave · · Score: 4, Funny

      Whereas Amazon has ample table space, quiet study areas, and you can browse through every part of every book in stock.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    7. Re:Libraries are one thing Amazon is not by timeOday · · Score: 3, Insightful
      But libraries already have floating e-book licenses you can check out for downloadable content (including off hours) in addition to everything else they offer.

      My daughter volunteered at the local library this summer teaching younger kids to read. In theory some semblance of this "could" be done over the Internet, but I just don't see it actually happening, and it wouldn't be the same.

    8. Re:Libraries are one thing Amazon is not by 0bject · · Score: 2

      I'm sure most parents would be totally OK with the much more efficient "Toothless Joe's Baby Story Time" hosted at his white panel van in the alley behind the gas station. Kids could pet exotic animals like wild rats and racoons. It would be a hoot.

    9. Re:Libraries are one thing Amazon is not by plopez · · Score: 2

      And virtual libraries require servers, networking, storage arrays, other ancillary gear, and an army of staff to maintain them. Virtual libraries also require readers and a network connection. And electricity. You can have a real library even without electricity.

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    10. Re:Libraries are one thing Amazon is not by timeOday · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Libraries are also a haven from commercialism. Any privatized variation on the library, run by e.g. Amazon, will unavoidably slide into becoming a flea market and / or Cable TV, just as surely as the Internet did. There are deep inherent conflicts between the goals of spreading knowledge vs turning a buck.

    11. Re:Libraries are one thing Amazon is not by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I've tried my library's e-book download service and I've tried Kindle Unlimited.

      And guess what? Neither of them carry the books I actually want to read. Back to one-at-a-time Kindle purchases for me.

    12. Re:Libraries are one thing Amazon is not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Another thing libraries offer is protection from censorship. Each book exists physically in a library and most will resist government goons until forced to remove/replace a book by the courts, usually attracting media attention in the process. Amazon is a single point of attack and has already shown they will quietly "update" everyone to a censored version of a book, and no one will ever know unless they re-read a book they read in their youth (like The Adventures of Tom Sawyer).

    13. Re:Libraries are one thing Amazon is not by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The fact that the public library is an actual place is important.

      Another facet of having an actual place is that humans orient themselves around physical spaces in ways that just aren't the same electronically.

      One of the most important ones to me is the bookshelf, particularly for non-fiction books (which is mostly what I read aside from classic lit). No matter how good Amazon's "products like this one" or "products other people have purchased" lists get, they still generally don't offer the same kind of discovery sensation of browsing on shelves for me. Amazon is very good at showing me books that other people like me already know about. It is TERRIBLE at showing me more obscure or older related items that people like me don't tend to know about already, but which might be just as good resources (or even better). Even a relatively small public library will often have some intriguing random discoveries for me when I'm browsing in an area devoted to a particular subject. And a large university is often a revelation.

      Physical bookshelves make this sort of browsing possible quickly and efficiently. They also register an amazing sense of "location" that just doesn't happen on the web. I used to visit a small local public library every couple weeks when I was a kid and check out books (mostly from the science section). After a few years, I had exhausted many of the good books in that section, so I didn't go to that library much anymore. But I remember returning there maybe a decade later, and when I went back to those shelves, I saw many of my old favorite books, still in their same locations on the shelves, and I *remembered* where they were... it was actually a somewhat moving experience. Now, of course, I have plenty of my own bookshelves in my home, and I have a similar sense of location -- even though I have thousands of books, I know basically where everything is. Whereas if I forgot to rename a PDF file I downloaded and/or forgot to put it in the right folder on my computer, I could have a lot of difficulty finding it.

      It's also like the physical sense one often has of reading a physical book, which makes it very different from reading an ebook where the text can reflow on demand or when a font is resized or whatever. With a physical book, I can often find something I read again by thumbing through and thinking, "Yeah, it was about 1/3 of the way through the book, and I remember it was in the upper right corner of a page somewhere" and I can usually find it within a minute or two. Obviously a full-text search on an Ebook can often be just as efficient, but sometimes I don't remember enough unique words from the passage or sometimes it was a diagram or something... and I can find that instantly in a physical book.

      Spatial organization is really important to memory. There was a well-known memory technique used in medieval times to memorize long lists of things and even entire books, which often involved imagining a very large building with many floors, and on each floor were many rooms, and in each room were many pieces of furniture with many drawers (or other containers), and within each drawer was some imaginary physical item meant to be a mnemonic for the things to be recalled. By "constructing" this imaginary building in your mind and repeatedly "revisiting" it as you memorized something, it would cement the text in your mind.

      Nowadays this art of memory has been almost forgotten, but in a mostly oral culture where books were rare and manuscripts often could only be consulted in one place but copying was too expensive to take a copy with you, it was necessary for scholars to memorize large amounts of texts when doing research. There was a whole "craft of memory," and it mostly revolved around spatial metaphors.

      Our modern physical libraries and books are similarly navigable when they exist in real space in ways that electronic materials often aren't. That doesn't mean that we can't make the electronic materials better and often superior in some ways, but we lose something when the physical orientation around books goes away.

    14. Re:Libraries are one thing Amazon is not by Sarius64 · · Score: 2

      Nothing replaces the giant reference books you find at public and university libraries. These books are thousands of dollars each and unlikely to ever be scanned in a searchable format. I'm not indicating that libraries cannot be improved or pulled into the new technologies. However, throwing away the functions and knowledgebase in current libraries is a terrible agenda.

  2. And now... by Reason58 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Let me tell you why the apple beats the orange.

  3. The #1 reason public libraries are better by weeboo0104 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Not everybody can afford a Kindle.

    My library card didn't cost me a thing to request and I can check out as many books as I can read for free as long as they are returned on time. Heck, I can even check out CD's, DVDs and puzzles for my kid.

    Public libraries are great sources for local history, in-person social networking, and meetings on how to become more involved in the local community and volunteering.

    --
    It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men. -Frederick Douglass
    1. Re:The #1 reason public libraries are better by weeboo0104 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Not everybody can afford a Kindle. My library card didn't cost me a thing to request

      Ah, brilliant logic. It didn't cost YOU anything, therefore it is free. Hate to break this to you, but libraries are expensive. Now, I support libraries, but they are not these free resources that just sprout out of the ground. They cost a lot and the money comes from somewhere.

      Yeah, the funny thing is my property tax statement itemizes how the taxes I pay each year are divided up.
      This past year, my tax statement says that $174.20 of my taxes went toward the library. I saw a 6" Kindle on Amazon for $69. Wi-fi only. So even if I purchased or say my property taxes paid for that Kindle, I'd still have to buy Wi-Fi to use it. That's just so I can use it personally. There's no ability to share that Kindle with anybody. And there is nowhere to physically meet the other people in the community.

      Now if you think paying $174.20 is expensive for a library, I paid $2,143 to the local school district. I don't have any kids in school, but I still have to pay for the schools. If you wanted to save money so badly, maybe we should stop paying for public schools and use the money to pay for Kindles instead so kids can learn from those.

      --
      It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men. -Frederick Douglass
  4. My local library by OzPeter · · Score: 5, Insightful

    My local library doesn't just have books.

    It has:

    Books (well yeah)
    Magazines
    Newspapers
    Audio Books
    DVDs
    Meeting Rooms
    Events
    Internet Access
    Printers
    Photocopiers

    In general it is trying to position itself as a local community resource

    Somehow I can't see all of that being replaced by a Kindle, and thats without even going into what limited selection of titles the Kindle will have.

    --
    I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
    1. Re:My local library by Trepidity · · Score: 3, Informative

      You can get academic journal articles in many libraries, which can help independent researchers, autodidacts, or even just particularly interested people. Obviously a local branch serving primarily non-researchers won't have a huge selection of journals on the shelves, but many do have access to academic library material via partnerships, if you want those materials. For individual articles, sometimes they'll even just get you a PDF scan (if local policy/law permits).

      Depends on the library systems of course, but I've used two systems that are like that. The Danish public libraries have access to the entire national university system's holdings via loans and scans, and it works very nicely. Now you might think that's something that only happens in Socialist Scandinavia, but another place that does that is, oddly enough, Texas: through the TexShare program, anyone holding a public library card can visit most academic libraries in-person, or access electronic databases remotely.

    2. Re:My local library by praxis · · Score: 2

      Amazon covers quite a bit of that.
      Books - Yes

      Very few books are available under Kindle Unlimited. Those that are not are very expensive.

      Magazines - Yes

      I do not think any magazine are available under Kindle Unlimited.

      Newspapers - Yes/No (maybe not your local paper)

      I could not find any newspapers available under Kindle Unlimited

      Audio Books - Yes Amazon owns Audible.com

      Again, nothing I could find under Kindle Unlimited

      DVDs - Yes Amazon does Movie/TV Streams

      Again, nothing I could find under Kindle Unlimited

      Meeting Rooms - No
      Events - No
      Internet Access - No
      Printers - Go paperless already
      Photocopiers - Stop waisting paper

      Not all photocopies are a waste of paper.

      Somethings you missed
      Research Help
      Free Day Care (people leave their kids unattended at libraries)
      Curated Childrens Section
      Table and chairs for studying.

      Or did you mean to compare items you can *purchase* on Amazon and its affiliates with items you can loan from the local library. That would be a silly comparison.

  5. The Dewey Decimal System by TheRealSteveDallas · · Score: 2

    Suck it Bezos!

  6. Librarians by dane23 · · Score: 2

    You can have my librarians when you pry them from my cold dead grasp.

    --


    Warning! Keep Out of Eyes! Wash Out with Water! Don't Drink Soap! Dilute! Dilute!
  7. Instead of replacing the library... by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Libraries were created for the common good. That is why they are free to the public (and paid for through taxes). Instead of replacing the library with a corporation like Amazon.com, maybe what is needed, for the common good, is a public library version of something like Amazon. Already many local libraries allow one to check out e-books.

    E-readers and public libraries aren't mutually exclusive. Maybe sometime in the 21st century, there won't be as many physical libraries, but the public library will still exist through through the checking out of free e-books. There is no reason why libraries and book stores could coexist and not e-libraries and Amazon.

  8. I want physical books and magazines by fivepan · · Score: 3, Informative

    I realize my tech nerd status may be jeopardized with this statement, but I have zero interest in e-books and magazines. I've tried them...I really, really have. The reader I bought specifically for this purpose now sits somewhere in my kid's room after I gave it to him. Other than for a quick look at recent news or sports scores, I don't read on my phone or tablet. I want the paper versions I can hold in my hand or pluck from the shelf and skim through. As others have mentioned here, public libraries are so much more than just a repository for books but even the books alone is enough for me to never want to give up my library card.

  9. Amazon by Tailhook · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I've been purchasing used books on history, politics and science from Amazon for almost the cost of shipping, which is close to or less than the cost of the fuel it would have taken for the two round trips to the library, and it takes a lot less of my time. Funny thing is, about half of these have library card sleeves. These books sat unread in libraries (you know, the places that supposedly have "content you want to read") for decades almost untouched (based on the condition I find them and the empty cards I find in said sleeves) until the libraries sell them off to make room for more new books almost no one will read. Here are a few from 2013;

    (shipping included with these prices.)
    Nuclear disaster in the Urals, Zhores A Medvedev, $6.98
    The Forsaken: An American Tragedy in Stalin's Russia, hardcover, Tim Tzouliadis, $6.78
    Red Atom: Russia's Nuclear Power Program from Stalin to Today, Paul Josephson, $4.94
    The Future and Its Enemies: The Growing Conflict Over Creativity, Enterprise, and Progress, Virginia Postrel, $4.00
    Behind the Facade of Stalin's Command Economy: Evidence from the Soviet State and Party Archives, Paul R. Gregory, $5.36
    The Legacy of Chernobyl, Zhores A Medvedev, $4.49. (got 2x for some reason; gave one to a co-worker.)

    I could go on all day as I've been reading this sort of stuff from Amazon for going on ten years now. Most of these are hard covers in excellent condition.

    The truth is libraries are dead to me as a source of reading material. I can't afford the time or fuel it takes to frequent them, and they simply can't host the selection I demand, which is why they purge themselves of their stock using Amazon. Right or wrong that's how it is.

    --
    Maw! Fire up the karma burner!
    1. Re:Amazon by darnkitten · · Score: 2

      Oddly enough, as a small rural librarian, (small library, that is--I am over 6' and overweight :) ), I also purchase obscure ex-library books on Amazon or half.com, for myself, for patrons who can't-or-won't-use-the-internet, and for my library's collection. I can't say I've had any interest in your reading list locally (though it sounds fascinating), but we've purchased reprints of obscure pre-colonial religious texts, archaeological texts on the Vikings, the Kievan Rus, and prehistoric Britain, German-language texts on the period of WWII, and a variety of sociological texts (sociology of American military base design, anyone?). most of these have been at the request of patrons.

      Ask--you might well have a local librarian who can justify purchasing interesting reading material from Amazon so that others in your community can enjoy them as well.

      BTW, have you thought of thought of joining an online book-lending program? You could be someone else's lending library and someone else could be yours, as well...

  10. KDP Select by ysth · · Score: 2, Insightful

    There are so many indie books because, AIUI, you cannot choose to have a book included in Kindle Unlimited unless you are providing it to Amazon under the KDP Select program. This program gets you higher percentages and free marketing and promotional tools. The tradeoff is that whatever books you have in the program be available exclusively from Amazon. This is a tradeoff that is going to make sense for many authors, but is just horrible for readers. And in the long run, the lock-in this inspires is bad for the authors too.

    See Chris Wright's rant.

  11. Old books, and getting rare books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I can see two advantages to my local library: 1) They have a collection of valuable books, some of them out of print for decades, and 2) if their collection does not include the book, they have the connections to get it for me. I have been able to get hold of a rare book, long since out of print, just by telling the librarian that I really wanted to see it. In the end it came from the far side of the world, Australia (as seen from Denmark)

  12. The WSJ doesn't really miss the point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The point, for the WSJ, is just different from what you think it is. Which is to say, any time you can replace a public service with a private one, that is a good thing from the WSJ's point of view. Getting rid of all the public things--libraries, schools, parks, art, streets, radio, etc.--brings us closer to the ideal of total control by the oligarchy. Open spaces are replaced by controlled spaces, spaces ruled by corporate will.

    Not only does Amazon not have what libraries have, but they never will--many libraries house archives that will likely never be digitized, historical records, and the like. I mean, I have access to two major university research libraries and the Boston Public Library, which by itself holds something like 9 million items.

  13. Re:Death rattle by plopez · · Score: 3, Informative

    "They should become specialists in archival services."

    They are. And good luck reading your book in 10 or so years when your favorite electronic publishing house shutdown, gets bought out, or just stops offering the format your electronic book is written in.

    --
    putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
  14. It's the twenty-first century by jabberw0k · · Score: 2

    You and Joe Biden ought to check your calendars; it's been the 21st century for well over a decade now.

    Also, real libraries have old and out-of-print books, rare books, maps, art collections, local publications and artifacts, and plenty of things that are highly unlikely ever to be digitized, or which history -- and historians! -- demand be kept for the public good. In this information age, we need librarians more than ever. Get rid of libraries and you scrap civilization itself.

    1. Re:It's the twenty-first century by alexander_686 · · Score: 2

      You got me on the date thing – I am showing my age.

      On to your point, I would agree that we need librarians and archivist. However you are off point. The topic at hand is about lending libraries and the most efficient way to lend out books, music, movies, etc. Almost everything you point out is in the domain of research, archive, and other special collection libraries. These libraries tend not to lend stuff out. Does it matter if a library or a historical society holds these archives? I can't think of one.

  15. There's another reason to stay with print books. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It will never be practical to corrupt or destroy all the copies of any widely-printed title. But once people rely overwhelmingly on electronic libraries, it will not be long before such an event is discovered - that some political or religious group or foreign government had released a worm that alters specific works, and no one had noticed it for months or years. With e-books, something like the Ministry of Truth becomes very practical, erasing and rewriting the past to suit the agenda of the present.

  16. It alway comes back around... by Sir+Holo · · Score: 2

    Best Buy was frequently called the "Showroom for Amazon."

    What goes around comes around. Eaxmple:

    Amazon is my "Showroom for the local library." (Also for books, before go buy them elsewhere – used – many ex-library copies.)

  17. Good for just browsing by the_arrow · · Score: 2

    One thing that libraries are very good for, is to just walk around aimlessly along the shelves and see what's there. You still can't do that online.

    For example, I was at a library just the other day, and didn't really know what book I wanted, so I just wandered around, picking up a book here, a book there, putting back a book when I found something more interesting. Left the library with The Complete Conan Saga, and Gaimans The Ocean at the End of the Lane.

    --
    / The Arrow
    "How lovely you are. So lovely in my straightjacket..." - Nny
  18. Sniping Commentary by Frightened_Turtle · · Score: 3, Informative

    "Luckily for libraries, they're safe for now because they still beat Kindle Unlimited and its competitors in at least one category: content you want to read.

    There is so much wrong with that backhanded insult that there is no "content you want to read" among self-published books.

    Currently, the top bestsellers lists contain more self-published authors than authors represented by publishing houses. Self-publishing authors are outselling traditionally published authors and are .

    The OP's comment comes from the misnomer that self-publishing is the last bastion of a writer whose writing was so bad, he couldn't get it accepted. The reality is the cartel of the Big-5 publishing companies have been artificially keeping the number of authors on the market artificially small so they could better control the markets in terms of product availability and price controls.

    The advent of digital publishing has given authors a way to get around the market controls of big-industry publishing. Even traditionally published authors such as Barry Eisler and H.M. Ward have walked away from the publishing houses and turned to self-publishing. The work coming out of self-published authors is incredible. Hugh Howey's dystopian science fiction Wool would probably have never seen the light of day if not for self-publishing and his books have sold millions of copies. There are other yet-to-be discovered authors such as William D. Richards Aggadeh Chronicles Book 1: Nobody or Michael Patrick Hicks Convergence who are turning out real page turners with gripping stories and excellent writing.

    Yeah, there is some crap out there (published as a joke; read the description; the author, Phronk, is a satirist and pretty damned funny). If you are unsure about a book by a self-published author, just download the free sample of their work and see how it reads before you buy. Many authors with a series of books offer the first book free—if you don't like it, you aren't out any money. If you do, then you've got a whole series to buy.

    Many independent writers take their craft very seriously. They employ a team of editors, proof readers, and a cover artist or two to ensure that the reader is going to get the best reading experience possible. If they weren't putting so much work into assuring the quality of their work was there, the self-publishing movement would have collapsed years ago. Instead, because of the commitment to quality by the authors, the self-publishing movement has been growing in strength, variety, and quality. Self-published authors gain no support from advance payments, no corporate backing, and no financial assistance. They are not subsidized by monies from other authors (as is a practice in traditional publishing). Instead, they make 100% of their incomes from direct sales to readers. If they weren't doing the proper Q.A. on their books, their livelihoods would be unsustainable.

    So, don't go listening to big-publishing shills trying to shoot down the first real competition they've ever faced. There is plenty of excellent reading to be found among self-publising writers, contrary to what the O.P. alludes. And as far as public libraries are concerned, independent writers are huge supporters of libraries, unlike big-industry publishers who try to milk money from municipalities by over-charging libraries for books and ebooks.

    --


    Whew! This water sure is cold!