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Ross Ulbricht Faces New Drug Charges

Alleged Silk Road mastermind Ross Ulbricht now faces additional drug-related charges. Ars Technica gives a run-down on the run-down, and shows an array of driver's licenses that can't look good to a jury: According to a 17-page amended indictment filed late Thursday night, the government introduced one count of “narcotics trafficking,” of “distribution of narcotics by means of the Internet,” and of "conspiracy to traffic in fraudulent identification documents." Previously, Ulbricht was indicted in February 2014 on four formal criminal offenses: narcotics trafficking conspiracy, continuing criminal enterprise, computer hacking conspiracy, and money laundering conspiracy. Ulbricht pleaded not guilty to the previous charges, and he seems likely to plead not guilty to the new ones as well.

60 of 102 comments (clear)

  1. Guilty by digsbo · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Of facilitating voluntary transactions between consenting adults.

    1. Re:Guilty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Of facilitating voluntary transactions between consenting adults.

      Consent cannot be given if one of the parties is mentally impaired and under duress due to the well-documented effects of drug addiction. It would be one thing if Silk Road had been only a marketplace for non-addictive substances like cannabis or hallucinogens, but in fact trade in heroin, cocaine and addictive painkillers was a major part of the site.

      That said, I think that a government policy of offering drug users medical treatment would be better than the current policy of criminal prohibition, but let's not pretend that Silk Road was all sunshine and rainbows among people of sound mind and body.

    2. Re:Guilty by Electricity+Likes+Me · · Score: 1, Informative

      And you know, of conspiring to commit murder. People seem to forget that part.

    3. Re:Guilty by digsbo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Last I heard, all our surviving presidents and most of Congress are walking around free, dude...

    4. Re:Guilty by reub2000 · · Score: 1

      That differs from the liquor store how?

    5. Re:Guilty by digsbo · · Score: 1

      Of course, that's BS, because two wrongs don't make a right. But the new charge is the subject of the story, and that's really what I was getting at.

    6. Re:Guilty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      According to the government he actually *failed* to hire a hit man...

      Quite frankly the whole thing seems quite fabricated, even if parts of it are true.

      To the extent most cases are made to seem extraordinary I'd throw them all out.

      Every claim which is made should be backed up with evidence. Obviously saying or implying he was the biggest drug king pin on the internet is full of crap unless you are going to discard the billions of dollars the major drug cartels are laundering. Does anybody for an instance think they aren't using modern communications? Otherwise they are using the Internet and we can discard the whole case against him as having been fabricated for all intensive purposes.

    7. Re:Guilty by Jahava · · Score: 2

      Of facilitating voluntary transactions between consenting adults.

      The illegality of those transactions is the only reason they are massively profitable, and that is likely the only reason he engaged in them.

      Whether or not you agree with that illegality is irrelevant. By profiting from facilitation of illegal activity, Ulbricht leveraged an unfair market position to get ahead of the rest of the world. Anyone can break the law for disproportionate profit. He's That Guy, and if you live within the system (as most of us do), you need to support stamping him down. The alternative is that everyone break the law for profit, which consequently becomes non-disproportionate with a few other side effects.

    8. Re:Guilty by khchung · · Score: 1

      Of facilitating voluntary transactions between consenting adults.

      So you also think we shouldn't have laws against buying/selling organs by adults, selling yourself into slavery, and prostitution? All of them are voluntary transactions between consenting adults.

      --
      Oliver.
    9. Re: Guilty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I've smoked weed heavily for many many years. Recently I stopped. No withdraws.

    10. Re:Guilty by Charliemopps · · Score: 2

      According to the federal government, Cannabis and Hallucinogens are in fact addictive.
      http://www.justice.gov/dea/doc...

      It's all lies to keep the war on drugs alive and well... but hey, when did the truth matter?

    11. Re:Guilty by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      Consent cannot be given if one of the parties is mentally impaired and under duress due to the well-documented effects of drug addiction. It would be one thing if Silk Road had been only a marketplace for non-addictive substances like cannabis or hallucinogens, but in fact trade in heroin, cocaine and addictive painkillers was a major part of the site.

      I think it would be a stronger argument that somebody isn't responsible for their own behavior while intoxicated. In fact, you'd have to pretty well establish that notion before you could even get to what you just said.

    12. Re:Guilty by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 2

      What's wrong with prostitution? Ugly person A wants sex. Hot person B wants money and will tolerate and/or even enjoy a willy inside them. Person A pays person B for sex. Both get what they want. Damn those evil people, how dare they offend God! Why...sex is ok, but only if somebody doesn't get paid damnit! (Except the god described in the old testament. He's cool with it so long as you burn incense and sacrifice a lamb or two in his name.)

      And I don't see anything wrong with selling your own organs either so long as it is done with the same stipulations that are already in place for donation. This is actually what Iran does and...surprise surprise...they're the only country where very few people die while waiting on organ transplants...Oh and people get paid to save lives in the process. What a backwards civilization those Iranians are, amirite? AMIRITE BRO?

      As for the slavery part; in some respects people already do that.

    13. Re:Guilty by FatdogHaiku · · Score: 1

      Maybe he meant the case was all true for non-intensive purposes...
      But I doubt it.

      --
      You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
    14. Re:Guilty by x0ra · · Score: 1

      We all know Anna Nicole married for love...

    15. Re:Guilty by Errol+backfiring · · Score: 1

      It is totally relevant. By outlawing something harmless you create an artificial crime scene. Oh come on, there are STILL movies made about alcohol, the US and gangsters with "Chicago Typewriters". Off course any government who actually promotes crime can also use it to conveniently accuse anyone to be a criminal.

      --
      Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
    16. Re:Guilty by Megol · · Score: 2

      Yes. Psychosis is induced more often by weed than alcohol, smoking weed can give a lot of troubles with the lungs and cardio vascular system (mostly caused by carbon monoxide poisoning) which in turn can lead to other problems. Eating weed have less harmful effects but still can trigger psychosis.

      Alcohol is a poison but if used in reasonable quantities have fewer side effects than reasonable use of weed. Yes it is well documented. No I won't google it for you.

      [expecting to get downvoted by weed fanatics that think it is a harmless "natural" drug]

    17. Re:Guilty by limaxray · · Score: 2

      [Citation Needed]

      Outside of government propaganda, I haven't seen much supporting the case that drugs like cocaine have a higher rate of abuse than alcohol. Furthermore, alcohol is the only drug that I'm aware of with withdrawal symptoms that includes death.

      At the end of the day, violently throwing people in cages at gun point for getting high on substances you don't approve of is far more harmful to both the drug user and society as a whole. This whole argument of which drug is more or less dangerous is stupid because the drug prohibition has done far more damage to our society than recreational drug use.

    18. Re:Guilty by sacrilicious · · Score: 2, Funny

      yeah! It's "for all in tents and porpoises"... an historical reference to those who lived nomadically or disguised as intelligent sea creatures.

      --
      - First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then ???, then profit.
    19. Re:Guilty by reub2000 · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure which class of substances is more addicative. But the ACs said that, "one of the parties is mentally impaired and under duress due to the well-documented effects of drug addiction." That statment could apply to many legal transactions. Even if you could show that alcohol was less addicative, many purchases are still made by addicts hoping not to face reality or withdrawls.

    20. Re:Guilty by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      I've known people with gambling addictions. There aren't any physical withdrawal symptoms, but it seems to be as hard to kick as a real addiction. Apparently, there is a physiological response to betting that takes the place of drugs. For those people, lottery tickets might as well be cocaine.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    21. Re:Guilty by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      There may be legitimate reasons to restrict pot, but they're really unconvincing when you find that the people against pot lie about its effects. The problem with lying for an agenda is that, once people see through the lies, they tend to think that anything in support of that agenda is a lie.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  2. More litigants! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    So if I buy a cell phone at Walmart and the battery catches on fire I can sue Walmart too? How about the cashier at Walmart and all of the stock people? They all share responsibility!

    1. Re:More litigants! by arth1 · · Score: 2

      If they knew of quality problems that might be a danger and failed to inform you in order to make a profit, yes, absolutely.

    2. Re:More litigants! by Mister+Liberty · · Score: 1

      apologist

  3. Chokehold by Tokolosh · · Score: 2

    Is it just me, or is everyone against the War on Drugs at the same time opposed to the tobacco industry?

    --
    Prove anything by multiplying Huge Number times Tiny Number
    1. Re:Chokehold by digsbo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Nope. I'm opposed to the war on drugs, and I have no problem with Big Tobacco, so long as they do business honestly. In my opinion, as long as they don't lie, I don't even think they should be prevented from various advertising, or need to have safety warnings on their cancer sticks.

    2. Re:Chokehold by Zaelath · · Score: 1

      It's just you.

    3. Re:Chokehold by Canth7 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Exactly. Do I have a problem with Big Tobacco? Yes - because they lie about their products and refuse to disclose the ingredients cointained within their products. Otherwise, I have no problem with multinational companies that want to sell tobacco, cocaine or heroine.

    4. Re:Chokehold by aNonnyMouseCowered · · Score: 2

      Your friendly neighborhood drug dealer is at least more honest in not claiming that snorting will make you look young and sexy like a hunk or supermodel. I really can't understand why big tobacco isn't banned while most countries will send you to death or to jail for a very very long time if you're caught with even a few grams of the stuff.

    5. Re:Chokehold by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      Yeah, as long as other people are allowed to physically remove a person smoking from their vicinity and they don't get any public funding for smoking disease related heath care.

      Other than that... they're selling a highly addictive substance that in normal use results in disease and premature death.

    6. Re:Chokehold by digsbo · · Score: 1

      Refusal to disclose is different from lying. It's the choice of the consumer to ingest when they have access to information that tells them "the producer is hiding something".

    7. Re:Chokehold by Firethorn · · Score: 1

      they don't get any public funding for smoking disease related heath care.

      It's actually cheaper to just pay out the healthcare than to drive it underground.

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    8. Re:Chokehold by Oligonicella · · Score: 1

      "Yeah, as long as other people are allowed to physically remove a person smoking from their vicinity..."

      What's the vicinity, chum? If I'm smoking a cigar outside and you walk up and lay a hand on me, there's problems.

    9. Re:Chokehold by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Is it just me, or is everyone against the War on Drugs at the same time opposed to the tobacco industry?

      No. The New York Times editorial staff maintains a stance in favor of legalizing marijuana, but opposed to tobacco, including e-cigarettes.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    10. Re:Chokehold by Tokolosh · · Score: 1

      Thanks for this input. Do they not understand that this leads to high taxes on cigarettes, leading to smuggling, leading to a chokehold death of a guy trying to make a living by selling them?

      Nevermind Ulbricht.

      --
      Prove anything by multiplying Huge Number times Tiny Number
    11. Re:Chokehold by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      tbh not much of their argument seems coherent either way. I think it really comes down to the editors wanting to smoke pot, and not wanting to smoke cigarettes.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    12. Re:Chokehold by MarkvW · · Score: 1

      I'm "against" the tobacco industry, but I'm not a tobacco prohibitionist. Same as to marijuana.

      On the other hand, I am against the methamphetamine industry and I am a methamphetamine prohibitionist.

      Other drugs require more thought and /. isn't worth that.

    13. Re:Chokehold by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      don't get any public funding for smoking disease related heath care

      Why not? They paid a lot more of the tax that funds it compared to (say) sugar addicts with bad hearts, bacon lovers with clogged ateries, or skateboarders with broken bones. All of those health problems are "self inflicted" and entirely avoidable but for some reason nanny state arseholes like you have a vendetta against smokers, you insist they pay an excessive "sin tax" and then demand they be denied any benifits from that tax. Fuck you and the holier than thou horse you rode in on.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    14. Re:Chokehold by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      The vicinity is where I can smell it.

      I believe the problem would be the cigar shoved up your nose.

  4. Well... by flyneye · · Score: 1

    I certainly didn't do it.
    You probably didn't do it.
    That leaves only the overlords, themselves.
    It's all a set up, with a scapegoat, as usual. This wouldn't make a decent T.V. show,lacks imagination. Therefore I suspect government tomfoolery in all of this.

    --
    *Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
  5. Define torture by AK+Marc · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Torture is violence or the threat of violence to extract a result. Prison is violent, so threats of prison are threats of violence.

    Adding on more charges is to play the game of "we'll get you on something, so if you don't confess to this small list, we'll send you away to prison for a long time." That's threats of violence to get a result. So this is all a game of legal torture.

    Cause harm and threaten harm until you get a confession, regardless of the guilt of the people involved. That's the American Way.

    1. Re:Define torture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well if you define it that vaguely, I guess any sort of punishment at all is torture, and I am guilty of some kind of war crime if I ground my 13 year old daughter.

    2. Re:Define torture by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      Yes. You're also guilty if you threaten to ground her.

      The government is also guilty because they've defined laws that pretty much say "If you kill someone on purpose and we can prove it beyond reasonable doubt, you're going to jail"

    3. Re:Define torture by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Then give me a definition of torture, so we can see what fits yours.

      The original definition, as it was used in the Inquisition, would include taking away her iPad if she didn't do what you wanted (like clean her room). Threatening to kill her if she didn't perform sex acts with you would be "torture"? Or would you dispute that one as well? Then let's "lessen" the punishment and act demanded, and see where you draw the line.

      But then, older definitions of slavery would still come close to applying to minors in the USA (with the exception that there's a fixed term, so it's more like indentured servitude), as indentured servitude was considered "slavery".

    4. Re:Define torture by Oligonicella · · Score: 1

      That is moronic. Both counts.

    5. Re:Define torture by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      An example is not a definition.

    6. Re:Define torture by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      It's no more moronic than what AK Marc proposed.

  6. Re:TOR by guruevi · · Score: 3, Informative

    Why not? The whole proof beyond reasonable doubt comes into play here (criminal charges). If the prosecution can't prove anything, he walks. If he used TOR in order to hide suspected illegal activities, then they'll have to prove that, using TOR in itself is not a criminal activity.

    --
    Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
  7. Re:TOR by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

    It's not going to look good if you funnel your money through multiple companies to hide the real source.

    He also can't disprove any allegations relating to what he's done over the Internet because he's purposefully removed all traces.

    Like if I was a murder suspect and my alibi was "I was at a party on the night in question. There are hundreds of witnesses, except I was wearing a mask so no one could identify me. I also walked some of the way, took several different cars, buses and bikes in multiple directions to get there and back, so no one can even verify if I travelled there or not."

  8. Re:TOR by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's not going to look good if you funnel your money through multiple companies to hide the real source.

    Oh, you mean not unlike American companies who funnel their money through offshore arms of the org to avoid paying taxes on it?

    Yeah, somehow magically that bullshit isn't called tax evasion.

    The double-standard just bruised your face you fell down so hard. Sorry 'bout that.

  9. Re:TOR by BitterOak · · Score: 4, Informative

    He also can't disprove any allegations relating to what he's done over the Internet because he's purposefully removed all traces.

    He doesn't have to disprove anything. In America it's up to the prosecution to prove that he did what they accused; it's not up to him to prove his innocence.

    --
    If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
  10. Re:TOR by phantomfive · · Score: 1

    that the Republicans forced Obama to sign

    LOLOLOLOLOLOL

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  11. Re:TOR by ScentCone · · Score: 1

    that the Republicans forced Obama to sign

    Hilarious.

    --
    Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
  12. Re:TOR by guruevi · · Score: 1

    Yes, but if they're using illegal searches and wiretaps, they'll have to reveal it in court... and may not be admissible as evidence.

    --
    Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
  13. So then by DrXym · · Score: 1

    Someone will have to point me to the part of Austrian School of Economics and libertarianism which says it's okay to have competitors and rivals iced.

  14. What's with the phrasing? by fa2k · · Score: 1

    In the middle of the article there's a list of charges, and all refer to a "detectable amount of [drug]". That's a pretty low standard. For example, when you're handling cash you're probably trafficking a detectable amount of cocaine.

  15. Re:TOR by danlip · · Score: 1

    Yeah, I'm pretty much a bleeding heart lefty and I still think blaming the Republicans for Obama signing NDAA is pretty ridiculous. There are plenty of things to blame the Republicans for, but Obama is hardly blameless either.

  16. Re:TOR by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

    I thought it was up to the jury to decide innocence based on all the admissible information provided.
    You assume that circumstantial evidence has no effect on the members of a jury.

    If you can't refute evidence (of any kind), it's going to have an effect in the minds of the jury.

  17. Re:TOR by phantomfive · · Score: 1

    It's fine to support Obama, but to come up with that particular twisted viewpoint, a person would need to expect Obama to agree with him on everything.

    Not only is the president still capable of vetoing bills, but it was passed with a bipartisan effort, and the administration has defended it in court.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."