Ask Slashdot: What Old Technology Can't You Give Up?

An anonymous reader writes: It's the year 2014, and I still have a floppy drive installed on my computer. I don't know why; I don't own any floppy disks, and I haven't used one in probably a decade. But every time I put together a PC, it feels incomplete if I don't have one. I also have a Laserdisc player collecting dust at the bottom of my entertainment center, and I still use IRC to talk to a few friends. Software, hardware, or otherwise, what technology have you had a hard time letting go? (I don't want to put a hard limit on age, so you folks using flip-phones or playing on Dreamcasts or still inexplicably coding in Perl 4, feel free to contribute.)

Comments

Simple

[UnknowingFool]

[Puts on fire resist gear]
vi. Because emacs is for the devil.

Re:Simple

[jaymz666]

that war is over, and vi won

Now, as to interviewing people for IT, who will be working on *nix, asking "emacs or vi" used to be a teasing question, now you're lucky if they know what one or both are.

Re:Simple

[peragrin]

I never did like vi. to damn complicated to remember all the shortcuts. Pico worked well when i needed to save or change something it was always obvious what key needed to be pressed and it allowed me to stop and think to avoid needlessly long run on sentences that users of vi tended to devote long hours to perfecting the stream of thought typing ignoring the simple fact that puncheon is important too.

Yes that was done on purpose.

Re:Simple

[OzPeter]

vi. Because emacs is for the devil.

This year I delved into a Debian system, the first time I had really used a linux system in decades. What scared me was that when I needed to edit something my muscle memory took over and before I knew it I was happily editing away in vi.

I haven't used vi since well before the turn of the century.

Re:Simple

[bearded_yak]

Only amateurs use emacs, vi, or ed. Real pros use 'echo %variablename% > filename'. After all, who needs to change anything when what you type is already perfection?

Re:Simple

[geekd]

Emacs user here. The only one in an office full of vi users. They and I have our config files set up so that indentation, etc all match, so when we open each other's code it's not all goofy looking.

I *can* use vi, I just prefer emacs, and I always have.

Re:Simple

[CopaceticOpus]

This reads like a letter to the editor in the Onion, if the Onion cared about vi. I honestly can't tell if you're being ironically pro-vi, or if you're just a simple Pico-loving soul.

Re:Simple

[TWX]

If it's any consolation, I didn't use vi for close to 20 years, using pico/nano instead. It wasn't until I started working with huge flatfiles that needed hundreds of lines of regular expression parsing that I learned how to use vi effectively.

I'd say that if you really need those advanced features that vi is the way to go, but admittedly pico/nano is a lot easier to use otherwise.


As for what I use that's old, I have a Dolby-AC3-capable laserdisc player and more than 500 titles and an S-VHS VCR with about 850 titles on tape, I'm hesitant to buy a laptop lacking an optical drive (though my pickings are quite slim these days), I'm still using a Gateway 2000 "Anykey" PS/2 124-key macro-programmable keyboard manufactured by Maxiswitch, the vast majority of my computer monitors are 4:3 ratio, I still have my SCSI Jaz2 drive, my SCSI Zip drive, a couple of 3.5" floppy drive, and one 5.25" floppy drive laying around, and my daily-use TV is a widescreen, high-definition tube . It works great! Cost me only $40! And at 126lb, no one is going to steal it. In fairness, it fits the built-in TV cabinet perfectly and at the time a similarly-sized LCD model was close to $600, so it made sense to go with the tube.

I don't necessarily equate old with obsolete. Obsolete is when it doesn't do the job that you need done satisfactorily. In that sense my 20 year old beater $700 pickup truck with no straight sheet metal and worn-out steering is fine, as I generally only drive it when either I need a truck specifically, or when one of the cars is out of commission and I need basic transportation in the interim. I'm typing this on a five-year-old netbook with an Atom processor, and I only recently replaced my Xeon-Gallatin-based dual processor workstation from a decade ago because the thing croaked after a power outage and doesn't want to come back up. It was a great box for a long time, even with only two cores. It's been replaced with a newer-used dual-quad Xeon workstation that I expect to use for another decade as my workstation and the whole-house server.

Re:Simple

[TWX]

Heh. I used to write MS-DOS batch and config files with copy con: if the only other choice was edlin...

Re:Simple

[Alan Shutko]

Whoosh.

Re:Simple

[msauve]

Newbie.

From: patl@athena.mit.edu (Patrick J..LoPresti)
Subject: The True Path (long)
Date: 11 Jul 91 03:17:31 GMT
Newsgroups: alt.religion.emacs,alt.slack

When I log into my Xenix system with my 110 baud teletype, both vi *and* Emacs are just too damn slow.. They print useless messages like, 'C-h for help' and '"foo" File is read only'.. So I use the editor that doesn't waste my VALUABLE time.

Ed, man! !man ed

ED(1) UNIX Programmer's Manual ED(1)

NAME
ed - text editor

SYNOPSIS
ed [ - ] [ -x ] [ name ]
DESCRIPTION
Ed is the standard text editor.
---

Computer Scientists love ed, not just because it comes first alphabetically, but because it's the standard.. Everyone else loves ed because it's ED!

"Ed is the standard text editor."

And ed doesn't waste space on my Timex Sinclair.. Just look:

-rwxr-xr-x 1 root 24 Oct 29 1929 /bin/ed
-rwxr-xr-t 4 root 1310720 Jan 1 1970 /usr/ucb/vi
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root 5.89824e37 Oct 22 1990 /usr/bin/emacs


Of course, on the system *I* administrate, vi is symlinked to ed.

Emacs has been replaced by a shell script which 1) Generates a syslog message at level LOG_EMERG; 2) reduces the user's disk quota by 100K; and 3) RUNS ED!!!!!!

"Ed is the standard text editor."

Let's look at a typical novice's session with the mighty ed:

[see the real thing here. /. lameness filter doesn't like it]

Note the consistent user interface and error reportage.. Ed is generous enough to flag errors, yet prudent enough not to overwhelm the novice with verbosity.

"Ed is the standard text editor."

Ed, the greatest WYGIWYG editor of all.

ED IS THE TRUE PATH TO NIRVANA! ED HAS BEEN THE CHOICE OF EDUCATED AND IGNORANT ALIKE FOR CENTURIES! ED WILL NOT CORRUPT YOUR PRECIOUS BODILY FLUIDS!! ED IS THE STANDARD TEXT EDITOR! ED MAKES THE SUN SHINE AND THE BIRDS SING AND THE GRASS GREEN!!

When I use an editor, I don't want eight extra KILOBYTES of worthless help screens and cursor positioning code! I just want an EDitor!!
Not a "viitor".. Not a "emacsitor".. Those aren't even WORDS!!!! ED!
ED! ED IS THE STANDARD!!!

TEXT EDITOR.

When IBM, in its ever-present omnipotence, needed to base their "edlin" on a UNIX standard, did they mimic vi? No.. Emacs? Surely you jest.. They chose the most karmic editor of all.. The standard.

Ed is for those who can *remember* what they are working on.. If you are an idiot, you should use Emacs.. If you are an Emacs, you should not be vi.. If you use ED, you are on THE PATH TO REDEMPTION.. THE SO-CALLED "VISUAL" EDITORS HAVE BEEN PLACED HERE BY ED TO TEMPT THE FAITHLESS.. DO NOT GIVE IN!!! THE MIGHTY ED HAS SPOKEN!!!

?

Re:Simple

[nuckfuts]

Actually, real pros use
cat > filename
then type Ctrl-d when done.

Seriously.

Re:Simple

[hairyfeet]

DVDs. The reasons why is they are cheap, easy to transport, and can hold a lot of data. With DVDs I can hand somebody 4GB+ of data for 15c including the sleeve, and when you can't predict how well or reliable their net is? That comes in REAL handy.

So the pundits can talk cloud this and cloud that but as long as I can get 'em I'm gonna be using DVDs. Hell if I had my way I'd still be using Lightscribe, but now that HP has pulled the plug its getting harder and harder to find new burners with LS. Sucks as it worked quite nicely.

Re:Simple

[Anubis350]

They're not (yet) at the 15c range, but if you buy in a large pack and don't want the fastest drives or USB 3 you can grab 4GB thumb drives for ~$2 each (~$1 each if you in 100+ quantities)- and these days be more assured that the person taking the data can read it easily

Re:Simple

[TheRaven64]

I enjoyed that article, but it's worth noting that vi actually is standard.

Re:Simple

[charliemerritt]

I still use JOE (Joe's Own Editor). ^kh brings up the entire list of commands, and that sill leaves you room to edit - half screen or so. What do I write with Joe?
Scripts - that pipe to scripts.
For-Next
While-Do
If-Then
    The OP mentioned a sloppy disk - *IF* he has a 5.25 we might be able to do business - I just found an OLD copy of the original M$ Flight Simulator - it has a tiny file that loads everything else on the disk which is just a bunch of binary glop. It just struck me that this worked very well on a 80286 / 12 MHz and it would be fun to try on the 125 Watt (what other measure?) CPU I have. ...cm

slashdot

[stormpunk]

I still come here looking for insightful articles and thought-provoking discussions.

Re: slashdot

[hurfy]

But if you just keep repeating it enough.....

Re: slashdot

[JazzHarper]

people will believe that Einstein said it.

Pen

[dolmen.fr]

I'm still using pens and Post-It to take notes, not my phone.

My watch

[Anonymous Coward]

I still wear a wristwatch. I've worn one constantly since I was 10. I'll probably be buried with one.

Re:My watch

[AthanasiusKircher]

I still wear a wristwatch. I've worn one constantly since I was 10. I'll probably be buried with one.

To me, a wristwatch is an essential tool. I give talks, teach classes, run meetings -- and I find it really annoying to do these things without bringing my analog watch.

Many rooms do not have visible clocks when I'm doing these things. But if I'm trying to run a class or give a talk or run a meeting on a schedule, I need to know what time it is. On the other hand, I don't want to make it look like I'm continuously checking the time, because that tends to make audiences nervous or anxious or feel bored or think you're bored or whatever.

Say I'm teaching a class. If the room doesn't have a visible clock, what are my options?

(1) Consult a classroom computer, if there is one. Well, some classrooms might not have one, but even if they do, usually a screensaver or something will turn off the monitor. So I need to go over and hit the spacebar (or worse, login) everytime I need to check the time. Yes, I could reconfigure the computer, but I may not have an account on it, it may be shared, etc.

(2) I could use my phone. But again we have the screen off problem. If I leave my phone on the desk, I'll still need to go turn it on to check the time, and it looks like I'm "checking my phone" (for messages, whatever). Not a good message to send to the students when I tell them I don't want to see *them* doing that. If it's in my pocket, I don't need to walk to it, but it's even more noticeable when I pull it from my pocket and turn the screen on briefly. I might be able to set my phone screen to stay on, but that wastes a lot of battery.

(3) I could bring along a tiny desk clock or something, but why do that when I already can just have one available on my wrist (which is probably even smaller and less obtrusive)?

(4) I can take my analog wristwatch off and set it down in a central location to where I'm presenting from. With an analog clockface, I can easily tell the time from just about any angle (not true of computer screens or phone screens), maybe 10-15 feet away (where I wouldn't necessarily be able to read a digital watch). And it's already on my wrist, so I don't need to remember to bring extra equipment. Even if I keep it on my wrist, it's usually less obtrusive to check the time than walking to some computer or pulling out a phone.

Basically, if you want to know what time it is in a room where there's no visible clock, but you don't want to necessarily signal to everyone else that you're constantly checking the time, a watch is a pretty ideal solution.

How about...

[Anonymous Coward]

Slashdot? *grin*

pine

[Lexible]

(Well... alpine.)

Good Analog Oscilloscopes

[SiriusStarr]

'Nuff said.

Old towers

[joneswes2010]

I pick up old desktop towers and then put Linux on them. They run like crap, they serve no use, but I like to have them. Something about watching a Gateway 2000 boot up and be "usable" makes me happy.

Re:Old towers

[Lacrocivious Acropho]

I do this too.

Some of them actually do have use, for example, if I add a NIC or three and put ClearOS on them to make an actual gateway/firewall/etc so I can put the client's compromised, obsolete, data-theft-oriented, crippled, piece of crap, 'free' end user 'router' (i.e., router-like device in the same sense as a Chicken McNugget bears relation to an actual Chicken) in Bridged Ethernet mode and protect them from an incredible percentage of malware.

It doesn't matter that they 'run like crap'. It isn't possible for the overwhelming majority of end users to ever make those old PCs even break a sweat when the PCs are replacing their 'routers'.

This solution becomes problematic basically in three cases: (1) physical space is at a premium; (2) noise is a problem in living space; and/or (3) power consumption is a huge issue.

A few small but significant ones ...

[timothy]

- Model M keyboard (I bought several when they were $5 at the Goodwill, including some with US Government stickers or NASA badges; if I knew then what I know now, I'd have loaded up a storage unit with them ...)

- Nano (sure, it's not as old or as rabidly backed as Certain Other Text Editors, but it's so very nice to use ...)

- Logitech Trackball. Unfortunately, the new ones are junk -- they seem to die in a few months. The old ones lasted me several years apiece.

Eudora

[saccade.com]

Yes, Eudora hasn't updated since '06, but it's still by far my favorite email client.

Pretty old?

[newcastlejon]

The wheel is pretty old; I don't think I'd want to give up that.

Re: Desktop

[johnsnails]

http://dilbert.com/dyn/str_str...

Local storage

[jenningsthecat]

They'll pry that from my cold dead fingers.

I use POP3, so I can have local copies of all emails. I keep messages on the server too, so it's easy to sync up several machines - that way I can have them on both my notebook and my desktop. All my music is local, and I keep local copies of any videos, documents, etc. that I care about. Occasionally I even save Web pages as HTML so I can have access to the content even after it changes in or disappears from the wild.

As far as I'm concerned The Cloud is a sometimes-convenient augmentation to local storage, not a replacement for it.

Re:Local storage

[kwalker]

If you're going to do that, at least use IMAP (Unless you're a Comcast customer, in which case, you have my condolences). IMAP lets you keep mail on the server and even organize it, rather than just having one huge Inbox. I use it on two desktops, a laptop, a smartphone, two Android tablets, and a webmail client (RoundCube).

Depends on how broadly we're talking

[DoofusOfDeath]

Cards, vibrators, air conditioners, vibrators, antibiotics, vibrators, dishwashers, vibrators, ...

Oh, too much to mention here...but

[MindPrison]

here goes:

My good old trusty Data I/O 29A with UniPak (it's an Eprom programming station from the 80's) that I just love too much as I can edit Eproms-on-the-fly and enter manual data on it, copy eproms, and it's compatible with the weirdest stuff on the planet.

Commodore SX-64, it's sort of a portable commodore 64 with built in 5.5 inch color screen & floppy disk...all in one practical unit, I have an assembler cartridge for it, and it's actually quite practical for coding 65xx series code on, and quick & dirty electronics projects I just connect to the I/O port (User Port), even in Basic.

My extreme stash of millions and millions of NOS Discrete components from the 50s to the 90s, I can literally built a spaceship with those things, doc Emmet Browns time machine is next. Transistors, Linear Circuits, Cmos, Timers, PCBs, MCUs, Static ram, roms, pal & gals (pain in the *** to program), resistors, solar panels, mics, crystals, coil formers, oscillators, capacitors, reed relays, diode galore, tubes tubes and even more tubes.

All my PCs I've built over some time, gets hard to part with them because 1) I can't get any money form them. 2) I always bought the best stuff. 3) It's not worth the agony of erasing all the pr0n...err...strike that last thing. And they're terribly practical for running old test gear, burners, peripherals etc. that doesn't work with todays computers.

My lovely old test instrument park, oscilloscopes (got at least 5 of them), spectrum analyzer, multimeters galore, function generators, frequency counters, PSUs and whatnots.

I don't even do this stuff enough justice, but you know what a MAN CAVE is? I just love to go into my MAN CAVE and sit there for serenity for hours and hours, even if it's just to write some pointless post here on Slashdot, and surrounded by all this cool stuff make me feel so 1337 H4xx0r and all that (no seriously...) it's like I'm a prop taken out of the old wargames movie (acoustic modems anyone?)

It feels so lovely sitting there with those things, knowing that any second I could build any project I'd ever want. (And I do from time to time), but just because they're THERE...I don't know if anyone of you know this feeling, but it's very energizing. Whenever I feel completely depleted (either me or my batteries) I go there and start at endless wastelands of components. Luuuuuv it!

CDs

[roc97007]

...because there's something tactile and convenient and immediately gratifying about flipping through a box of CDs, selecting one and slotting it in the player. With most audio gear supporting thumb drives, this doesn't make a lick 'o' sense, I suppose, but there it is.

I could justify this, maybe as it being faster to find a physical CD than it is to navigate the rather clumsy interfaces in some gear, but it's really that it's nice to have something I can physically handle.

I also make it a point to go through supermarket lines with a real cashier rather than a do-it-yourself scanner. Not because I am a technophobe (quite the opposite) but because I like dealing with a real human.

Email

[Kris_J]

I would have thought plain old email is the number one pick in this list. We're all stuck on it even though it's been around for, what, 30 years?

Not quite old but...

[nmb3000]

Firefox 28 (with tabs-on-bottom if you please), Windows 7, and Linux with Gnome 2 (aka MATE).

I'm basically just holding out with old (or "old") software to avoid the current plague of horrible user interface design. The entire "UX designer" movement we're seeing right now is nothing more than a user-hostile circle jerk, doing the perpetuating the same ideas because everyone else is doing it. It's frankly a cancer upon computing, and my only hope is that we eventually see enough pushback from users that the morons at Mozilla, Microsoft, Google and elsewhere realize their mistake, fire all the useless UX blowhards, go back to real usability studies, and let us all get on with a life where we won't always worry that clicking "update" will almost certainly royally fuck everything up.

Re:Not quite old but...

[Dutch Gun]

Yeah, completely with you there. I'm fine with the anti-skeumorphic trend - it's silly to continue to make things look like now decidedly old-school real-life countparts for it's own sake. But why did color, gradients, gloss, and borders have to go as well?

Now we have flat, borderless, and ugly designs all over the place, and what's worse, I've found these UIs more difficult to use, not less, because you're often left guessing as to where buttons begin or end, or what even is clickable/pushable. A lot of the visual elements removed were important visual cues that simply got tossed out the window.

IRC

[starseeker]

IRC is still used as a major form of (semi) real time collaborative tool in free software development. Freenode remains hard to beat for this purpose, and I don't really see it changing anytime soon. It's not so much a question of not giving it up as seeing no compelling reason to replace a (very nicely) working solution to the problem.

Hard to say...

[frank_adrian314159]

Shoes, I guess - my feet get too cold and drop off in the winter, otherwise.

Cable Lacing

[bearded_yak]

I love cable lacing with waxed linen string. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C... I've never seen a more elegant way to bundle cables. Velcro is close, but maybe I'm just old-fashioned.

Model M Keyboard

[starseeker]

Perfection in engineering... it not only solves the problem of creating the perfect typing experience, it's also tough enough to use as your own personal Hammer of Thor when your office mates storm your cubicle trying to stop the noise.

Re:The VCR

[javajeff]

I tape shows on my VCR. It still works, and I am the master of the fast forward button to avoid commercials.

Clothes

[aNonnyMouseCowered]

Ancient technology I know, but I feel really naked when I try to leave home without them.

Re:Gopher

[TWX]

At one point I wanted to set up a gopher juarez server. I wanted it to reject web browsers emulating a gopher client too... I figured that something like three people would be left that would appreciate it though.

35mm film

[RDW]

Yes, I use digital too like everyone else, but somehow I keep going back to the Leica.

1926 model news printer

[Animats]

This is my news printer. Each morning I turn it on, and it prints a paper tape with the Reuters news summaries.

This is 1926 technology. The machine talks to a standard serial port at 45 baud, 5 bits, no parity, 1.5 stop bits.

True "E-Waste" Story

[retroworks]

About 9-10 years ago I was trying to decide whether to accept 4X the price offered for dismantled Floppy Disk Drives as I could get from a USA recycler. I'd heard that the Asians probably burned the FDDs in a fire for crude metal recovery, but it didn't add up. Why weren't they paying 4x the price for other dismantled components? How could they convert MY avoided pollution cost into that much value?

Turns out there was a factory in Kunming (South China) which purchased used floppy disk drives. They used to make new FDDs. I got photos of the factory, fairly modern. When new FDD orders "scaled down" they could no longer afford to manufacture new ones at scale... but they could buy used ones for 4X scrap value, about 1/10 new production value. And the factory in Kunming supplied just about every Floppy Disk Drive people purchased from 2002 on... when FDDs were still offered on units but NO ONE WAS MAKING THEM ... except for the "primitive e-waste Chinese factory" in Kunming.

Re: Rosetta

[dgatwood]

Dead animals and a cave wall.

ROT13

[Unxmaal]

Jr'er ab fgenatref gb ybir Lbh xabj gur ehyrf naq fb qb V N shyy pbzzvgzrag'f jung V'z guvaxvat bs Lbh jbhyqa'g trg guvf sebz nal bgure thl V whfg jnaan gryy lbh ubj V'z srryvat Tbggn znxr lbh haqrefgnaq Arire tbaan tvir lbh hc Arire tbaan yrg lbh qbja Arire tbaan eha nebhaq naq qrfreg lbh Arire tbaan znxr lbh pel Arire tbaan fnl tbbqolr Arire tbaan gryy n yvr naq uheg lbh.

Re: Desktop

[sillybilly]

All I ever catch on my LW radio is power grid hum, no stations. Shortwave does pick up some Jesus freaks though that are nice to listen to, or some Hispanic stations like Florida or Cuba halfway across the continent, which of course I don't understand, but I catch the gist of it, when they talk about Putin or Syria or Gaza, I know what they talk about, just don't know what exactly they are saying about it.
I do miss the days of BBC world news. They stopped service to the Americas on SW.
SW and BBC used to be synonyms even 10 years ago.

Also my SW radio is an LCD digital one, and sometimes I wonder if it's not hacked and it's really some bogus transmission getting fed through it, pretending to be shortwave. You cannot trust chips. A SW radio based on vacuum tubes is a lot more trustable that it's actually picking up the airwaves as directed, and then the issue comes down to actual bogus programming on those frequencies by nearby stations - they can even fake ionosphere reflection noises and fading, broadcast from nextdoor to you.

As Rene Descartes said, I think there I am, but beyond that, every fact in my mind is on shaky ground, and it takes the power of faith to believe a scientific experimental measurement as true, but I believe those a lot more than what someone picks out of thin air, without scientifically possible repetition and verification of measurements

Traditional wet shaving

[der_joachim]

Modern wet shaving is rubbish. Overpriced cartridge systems, harsh chemicals to soften up the beard and mediocre results. I prefer a good DE razor with a traditional soap. Easier on the skin and I get better shaves.

Microsoft Natural Keyboard, before they fschked it

[twms2h]

I recently bought (used) a few of the old Microsoft Natural Keyboard Pro from before the 4000 series. Those that still included a USB hub and the lettering on the keys did not disappear after only a few months of normal usage.
Before that I had several of the 4000 Keyboards and all of them started to lose their lettering within a few months. They are just really bad quality.

I will probably be using them until they fall apart.

Re:A basic land line

[TheRaven64]

There are several nice features of a landline, but they can't (in the UK, at least) compete on price. The line rental alone for a landline costs more than I spend on calls on my mobile (pre-pay, no contract, no monthly fees). Calls from my mobile are 3p/minute, a landline is £16/month. I'd need to spend almost 9 hours on the phone each month before I spent as much on my mobile as a landline would cost me before I even made any calls. And then, for the kicker, the calls from the landline cost 9p/min (+15p setup) for calls to other landlines or 12p/min (+15p setup) for calls to mobiles. There's no possible justification for calls from the landline costing 3-4 times as much as calls from the mobile on top of the extortionate line rental. If I wanted to pay BT even more, for another £3 I could get free evening and weekend calls to landlines, but calls to mobiles would still be the same price. For £7.50 on top of the line rental, I'd get free calls to landlines, and calls to mobiles would only be twice the cost of my mobile. Almost everyone I call has a mobile though, so in exchange for paying BT an amount equivalent to about 12 hours of calls on my mobile per month, I could then pay double per minute what I pay for calls on my mobile with no line rental.