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How Astrophysicists Hope To Turn the Entire Moon Into a Cosmic Ray Detector

KentuckyFC writes One of the great mysteries in astrophysics surrounds the origin of ultra-high energy cosmic rays, which can have energies of 10^20 electron volts and beyond. To put that in context, that's a single proton with the same energy as a baseball flying at 100 kilometers per hour. Nobody knows where ultra-high energy cosmic rays come from or how they get their enormous energies. That's largely because they are so rare--physicists detect them on Earth at a rate of less than one particle per square kilometer per century. So astronomers have come up with a plan to see vastly more ultra high energy cosmic rays by using the Moon as a giant cosmic ray detector. When these particles hit the lunar surface, they generate brief bursts of radio waves that a highly sensitive radio telescope can pick up. No radio telescope on Earth is currently capable of this but astronomers are about to start work on a new one that will be able to pick up these signals for the first time. That should help them finally tease apart the origins of these most energetic particles in the Universe .

41 of 74 comments (clear)

  1. less than one particle per square kilometer/100yrs by NotInHere · · Score: 2

    This seems not very much. How do we know of them at all?

  2. Finally! by jpellino · · Score: 2, Funny

    "That's no moon..."

    --
    "Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
    1. Re:Finally! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Um. Yeah. Yeah, it really is a moon.

      Just because TFS and a line from Star Wars both have the word 'moon' in them, does not mean that this was a clever time to quote the movie.

  3. By that logic by kruach+aum · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Your mom is a visible light detector every time anyone looks at her.

    Put differently, the moon is not being turned into a detector of anything, but "astronomers are building a telescope" is not a very catchy headline.

    1. Re:By that logic by CODiNE · · Score: 1

      Oh yeah?? Well your GRANDMA is a visible light detector every time anyone looks at her!

      --
      Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz
    2. Re:By that logic by hawguy · · Score: 2

      Your mom is a visible light detector every time anyone looks at her.

      Put differently, the moon is not being turned into a detector of anything, but "astronomers are building a telescope" is not a very catchy headline.

      But it's not like they are just bouncing the high energy particles off the moon and then detecting them, they are letting the particles hit the moon, then are picking up the secondary effects.

      If you want a "your mom" analogy, I think a better analogy would be if they hoisted your mom by crane and dangled her in front of a microwave antenna to make her a "microwave detector" - scientists on the ground will measure her temperature with an IR camera, he she heats up, then there's microwave radiation.

    3. Re:By that logic by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1

      he she

      Hey, that's the guy's mom you're talking about!

      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    4. Re:By that logic by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 1

      Your mom is a visible light detector every time anyone looks at her.

      Put differently, the moon is not being turned into a detector of anything, but "astronomers are building a telescope" is not a very catchy headline.

      That's no moom...

      Wait. What?

      Yo momma's so fat, astronomers can use her to detect cosmic rays.

      There we go. I knew there was a kitschy joke in there somewhere.

  4. Re:less than one particle per square kilometer/100 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    By being really clever! My father was a cosmic ray physicist and had a cosmic ray lab on top of Mount Evans (14000+ feet) in Colorado to detect these critters. I honestly don't know if he ever "captured" one, but he was awarded a Gugenheim fellowship to continue his research world-wide, and a number of his graduate students who suffered a winter on top of the mountain got their PhD's continuing the research.

  5. SubjectsInCommentsAreStupid by lesincompetent · · Score: 1

    Turn the entire moon into a cosmic ray. Full stop. THAT ought to be one helluva bigass energetic "particle".

  6. mini-explosion? by pz · · Score: 2

    If the baseball analogy is accurate, the impact of such a ray should cause something more than just a burst of radio waves. Why don't we see evidence of inexplicable pockmarks on the earth's surface? Or do we? 1 per km2 per centry is a lot when you have such a large surface area like the Earth. Heck, we should have reports of people being stricken down in broad daylight from time to time.

    --

    Put my fist through my alarm clock with its ding-dong death inside my ear. - The Blackjacks.
    1. Re:mini-explosion? by Sique · · Score: 1

      Do you see pockmarks on the earths surface which result from baseball impacts at 100 kph? Even if you do, wind or the next rain wash them away very fast. And the energy of the cosmic particles was said to be comparable to a baseball at about 60 mph, thus you won't expect any more impact.

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    2. Re:mini-explosion? by itzly · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The cosmic rays collide with the atoms high in the atmosphere, and the atmosphere is notoriously bad at maintaining pockmarks.

    3. Re:mini-explosion? by drerwk · · Score: 1

      You might enjoy reading http://www.ast.leeds.ac.uk/Aug... for an introduction. But to answer your question, the incoming cosmic rays usually (always?) begin interacting in the upper atmosphere, I don't know the cross sections particularly well, but it is possible that only very rarely do they make it to the ground. What we detect down here is the cascade of particles - like an avalanche - initiated in the upper atmosphere. The resultant cascade can affect detectors across hundreds of square kms.

    4. Re:mini-explosion? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Really high energy particles are not efficient at depositing that energy to a small volume. If they collide with something, they may transfer some of their energy, and that will be into either a particular nucleus or pair produced particles which will travel some distance before interacting with stuff. You don't suddenly have a spot that acts like it was hit by a baseball, but a spray of subatomic particles that deposits the energy over a large volume. Unless you are using detectors that can catch the transversing particles or look for tiny bursts of light from them passing through things, you won't see the effects.

    5. Re:mini-explosion? by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      1 per km2 per centry is a lot when you have such a large surface area like the Earth.

      No, not really.

      1 per km^2 per century is one hit every six seconds for a planet this size.

      For the face of the moon we can see, it'd be about one hit every three minutes...

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    6. Re:mini-explosion? by dfsmith · · Score: 1

      I did some quick calculations, and (1e20)eV is a 145g baseball at 54km/h. Not nearly so painful as 100kph. Now, in terms of a hyperdermic needle (1g) it's about 400mph. That'll hurt!

  7. What are the symptoms? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Humanity's cross section is about 2000 km^2, so we should expect about 20 hits per year on people.

    1. Re: What are the symptoms? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Well there are a lot of things I could write about cosmic rays interacting in the upper atmosphere making it improbable to be hit by a cosmic ray proton rather than it's (usually) less dangerous products. But the important thing is actually is that even if you do get hit by just one, what's it gonna do? Probably just interact with another particle in you, resulting in both exploding into other particles which carry away the energy, some of which may interact again within your body, but most not. My point is most of the energy will not be absorbed by your body. All in all, this is probably less radiation damage than you receive from other sources. Thinking of it as a baseball which transfers most of its energy to the object it hits is just... wrong.

    2. Re:What are the symptoms? by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      running for Congress

    3. Re:What are the symptoms? by Neil+Boekend · · Score: 1

      Doesn't matter. The particles hits the upper atmosphere. (it either hits an atom head on, desintegrating it (low chance), or the magnetic field interactions with a lot of atoms drain energy from it to the other atoms (that's more likely)). In both cases a waterfall of lower energy particles showers down. These particles are detected with our detectors. Not the particles themselves.
      In other words: unless you are unshielded in the upper atmosphere you are not going to be hit by one. Even in that case I would advise you to worry more from hard UV rays than Oh-My-God particles. You would be above the ozone layer.

      --
      Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
  8. 100 kph? by j33pn · · Score: 4, Funny

    Describing a baseball's speed in kilometers per hour feels like mixing systems of measurement.

    --
    You people and your slight differences disgust me! - Prof. Farnsworth
    1. Re:100 kph? by rubycodez · · Score: 3, Funny

      you are correct, the hour is not a SI metric unit of measurement

    2. Re:100 kph? by ameline · · Score: 1

      And you, sir, are technically correct -- the best kind of correct. :-)

      --
      Ian Ameline
    3. Re:100 kph? by Bengie · · Score: 1

      We managed to get 1 pound defined as 0.45kg. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing. I guess this also means a slug is 0.45kg, as it would make no sense to say it's 1/32 of a lb, when a lb is 1/2.2 of a kg. Bah!

  9. Re:How? by bws111 · · Score: 1

    tease:

    gently pull or comb (something tangled, especially wool or hair) into separate strands.

  10. Re:less than one particle per square kilometer/100 by itzly · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The earth's surface area is pretty large, but from any given point on the earth, you can only see a small bit. And it's probably cheaper to aim a detector at the moon than it is to put one in orbit and look at the earth.

  11. Re:Can we have that in LoC units? by disposable60 · · Score: 2

    While what you say is true, you fail to consider the number of protons in a baseball.

    --
    You're looking for quotes? See my journal.
  12. Re:Can we have that in LoC units? by Noah+Haders · · Score: 1

    Fine a baseball thrown by a varsity high school player.

  13. Re:less than one particle per square kilometer/100 by cyn1c77 · · Score: 1

    This seems not very much. How do we know of them at all?

    Because there are a lot of square kilometers out there... especially when the blurb doesn't actually define what the surface area of observation is!

  14. Re:less than one particle per square kilometer/100 by ACE209 · · Score: 2

    It's about the detection area. You can't pave the earth with detectors (half) the surface area of the moon. Or well - maybe you can but that would cost a lot more than a single indirect detector using the moons surface.

    --
    "we are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further."
  15. Re:Can we have that in LoC units? by cellocgw · · Score: 1

    Fine a baseball thrown by a varsity high school player

    Is that a European school or a South African school?

    (well, somebody had to ask!)

    --
    https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw
  16. Re:less than one particle per square kilometer/100 by belthize · · Score: 1

    My first question when I saw this was how much time on the sky you'll get.

    Is a few hundred hours/year statistically significant.

    Are you likely to get much more than that considering all the competing survey proposals ?

  17. lagrange point location by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Put the new telescope in one of the stable earth-moon lagrange points so that the moon will always be visible. The one on the other side would even be quieter! That will be $0.02, please. Zaza

  18. Re:less than one particle per square kilometer/100 by stonecypher · · Score: 1

    You can't pave the earth with detectors

    Can too.

    --
    StoneCypher is Full of BS
  19. "Your gonna put an eye out" by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    So an astronaut could be just working away in space and suddenly Booof! they are gob-smacked by one of these and lose an eye?

    I suppose a pebble-sized meteor out of nowhere is also a danger to them.

    1. Re:"Your gonna put an eye out" by Neil+Boekend · · Score: 1

      The total surface area of all astronauts is far less than 1 km squared so on average one should be hit by one once in far more than a century. We haven't been in space for a century.
      Pebble sized meteors at far lower speed but with far higher impact energy are far more common.

      --
      Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
  20. Are we finally going to by sabbede · · Score: 1

    Chrome the Moon?

  21. Re:less than one particle per square kilometer/100 by Neil+Boekend · · Score: 1

    We detect the particle spray that they start when they hit the upper atmosphere.

    --
    Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
  22. Re:Can we have that in LoC units? by damn_registrars · · Score: 1

    While what you say is true, you fail to consider the number of protons in a baseball.

    Sure, but if you don't live in a country where baseball is commonly played then it is hard to have a frame of reference for how large a baseball is. Conversely if you do live in a country where baseball is commonly played then you likely don't use the metric system in daily life.

    --
    Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.