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Tesla Plans To Power Its Gigafactory With Renewables Alone
AmiMoJo writes In his press conference, Elon Musk stated that the factory will produce all of its own energy using a combination of solar, wind, and geothermal. Engineering.com looks at the feasibility of the plans. Spoiler alert: it looks possible, though some storage will be required. Fortunately, if there is one thing the Gigafactory won't be short of it's batteries. From the article: "The numbers don’t lie. The site could realistically produce more than 2900 MWh of renewable electricity each day ... 20% more than it needs. These are conservative estimates on production and worst-case estimates on consumption, and it’s clear that there’s enough renewable energy to run the plant with some to spare."
"all of its own energy using a combination of solar, wind, and geothermal"
No, that's not what it says. It says it will be net-zero. That's a big difference.
This plant will be grid-connected. It will simply produce as much energy as it uses. Not all the time, not 24 hours.
> If I open a company tomorrow, how can I get away with not paying taxes?
You ask the local government. They all do it. They just have different ideas of which ones to fund and which ones not to.
But if you have a factory you want to build, and it's going to employ, say, 1000 people, you'll find a lineup of governments willing to give you a tax break.
I figured they would power it with hype on Slashdot.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
I am not for the tax breaks but the state of Arizona should come out ahead even after them. This factory will represent 3% of the states economy.
Tesla is building the factory for the purpose of getting the cost of batteries down to make a 4 door sedan in the 30k range though I expect it to cost more like 35k in the end AFTER government incentives.
As for the Toyota gas pedal thing, Tesla also got slapped with all of the 'fire' stories even though fires are more common in gas vehicles.
from the linked article at engineering.com:
"Musk said that the factory would be aligned with true north so equipment could be located with GPS ..."
Can anyone here make sense of that statement? GPS only works when buildings are aligned with true north?
Ceci n'est pas une signature.
They get tax breaks because it's part of the deal to open the factory in said area. It's basically a big competition and everyone wants this factory since it brings with it the big four letter word JOBS. That's right jobs. It doesn't matter where they come from but jobs jobs jobs. American jobs. These here are good ol' American jobs which any politician will look at like the entire factory is actually made out of gold. Shiny, golden PR that will make them look like some kind of religious savior.
Tesla has been fighting really hard against the status quo, so go off pretending like they have every politician in their pocket is hilarious.
Elon Musk is rightfully placed as one of the better figures of humanity. The guy is a complete pioneer who is revolutionizing civilization one step at a time. He has talent, drive, ambition, and most importantly, isn't interested with petty politics or big fat bank accounts. He's a scientist at heart who just wants to see humanity move forward and is ACTUALLY DOING IT in a way and on a scale that no one else has before.
All that and he's this remarkably humble guy. Blows my mind.
I get it, I really do, but the romanticism of the electric car is far more justified than the romanticism of the Prius. The Prius is a gasoline car that is good at using gasoline. An electric car is a replacement for gasoline, a Prius is an iteration on gasoline. If you believe gasoline production/use is bad, you have to believe that electric = good, while Prius = less bad.
as far as creating an affordable electric car, everybody agrees Teslas are too expensive, even Musk.... well, that is the POINT of this factory. Batteries suck, and our best batteries are horribly expensive, the only way to make them cheaper is to make more, faster. They have a 3 year plan for a $35,000 sedan. To go from $128,000 to $69,000 to $35,000 in 8 years is amazing, and that is where the "Musk Worship" comes from. Some of the first cars were electric, and since then incredibly wealthy auto manufacturers around the world have been telling us it is all but impossible.
His company doesn't get tax breaks to succeed. He gets tax breaks to entice bringing lots of jobs to THAT state instead of some OTHER state. Getting lots of jobs gets you re-elected.
"Love heals scars love left." -- Henry Rollins
Musk does a lot of awesome things.
Why does his company need a huge pile of tax breaks to succeed?"
Is it getting major tax breaks?
"If I open a company tomorrow, how can I get away with not paying taxes?"
don't make any money. Also, hire enough people where giving a company a tax breaks makes it worth while due to secondary a tertiary factors.
"Why are Tesla's cars so rudely expensive?"
becasue they are high end luxury vehicles. Do you send letter to Mercedes telling them their care a rudely expensive?
" Is there a plan for a 4 door sedan that a real family can afford in the 20K - 30K "
Yes.
"range like the Prius?"
Like the Prius? no, they will actually be good.
"Why is it that a guy with a big mouth and political friends on all sides gets so much tax subsidy, loans, breaks and deals?"
no more then any there similar company. Frankly I would rather people making clean energy get them, and coal and oil companies snot get them.
"when a bogus story about a gas pedal getting stuck?"
A bigger question is: Why didn't the media talk about the discovery that they where, in FACT, not bogus claims?
"3.8 million priuses have been sold and cab drivers will tell you they easily go into the 300K range and even if the battery runs out the car is still useable."
Funny you bring this up. I was just talking to Prius drivers this weekend, Many where bitching that the computer can get stuck in a loop and the car has to be off and sit before it will reset. apparently starting them up in the wrong way can cause this to happen.
Junk bond stats(b-) is based on they way it got money and that it's different the tradition automakers.
I"m pretty sure risk fro fighting the 3rd party car sales is also taken into account.
The man is changing the world.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
If you live in Nevada, then they're indirectly getting your tax dollars (in that they are getting cheaper rates and tax breaks, rather than actual money handed over). However, the economic impact of the gigafactory is apparently expected to outstrip the tax breaks by a ratio of 80:1, so it sounds like a good deal... if the economic benefits the governor of Nevada is claiming are realized.
Why does his company need a huge pile of tax breaks to succeed? If I open a company tomorrow, how can I get away with not paying taxes?
Offer to open a factory and let localities knock themselves out trying to woo you. This is not unique to Tesla.
Why are Tesla's debt bonds in Junk status but he continues to get freebies from states?
It is junk because the business has a lot of risks, not because the business plan is fundamentally unsound. Bonds are rated according to risk. In the long run the riskier investments pay out more. Look at the stock price of Tesla if you want to see where the market thinks it is going.
Why are Tesla's cars so rudely expensive? Is there a plan for a 4 door sedan that a real family can afford in the 20K - 30K range like the Prius?
You cannot buy a battery so large at the moment for such a low cost. In part, this factory is an attempt to get some economy of scale so that the price will come down. But also remember that the margins on a luxury car are far higher than the margins on a family sedan. Toyota makes something like 20% on each Lexus that it makes, but only 10% overall (including Lexus). You would be nuts (or very, very confident) to enter the sub-10% market with a new product. Tesla may very well enter the low-end market some day, but I wouldn't hold my breath. For now, think of them as Audi, BMW, or Mercedes.
Why are guys who run factories employing tons of US citizens in US based factories (like Toyota) who produce super reliable product with great mileage get slapped by the media when a bogus story about a gas pedal getting stuck?
Are you kidding? Just wait until Tesla slips up. They will eventually, and the media will jump all over them. The only thing that the media loves more than an underdog is the story of a fallen angel.
Not sure why people need a super-hero.
If you can solve that, you will change the world in a serious way. You'll put a lot of "personalities" out of business - from Obama and Putin to the gossip columnist at the Enquirer.
3.8 million priuses have been sold and cab drivers will tell you they easily go into the 300K range and even if the battery runs out the car is still useable.
Prius is not all electric. Tesla makes no hybrids. If the Prius were all electric it would probably cost another $10k, or it would have to downsize like the Leaf.
But instead we continue to give money to the cartoon guy.
I'm not sure why you are picking on Tesla. We give tons of tax breaks to Toyota. Google for "Toyota Plano tax breaks" to see about their new headquarters. Hell, the Prius was directly subsidized for years through the same federal tax credit as the Teslas. Nissan and Mitsubishi get the exact same tax credit as the Tesla.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
I am not for the tax breaks but the state of Arizona should come out ahead even after them.
The factory will be in Nevada, you're getting your arid wastelands mixed up. Arizona = massive chasms/cacti, Nevada = slot machines/nuke tests.
A burning car you can get away from if you are in it, you stop and get out.. A car that is doing 80mph and accelerating you cant get away from if you are in it. Unless you want to die with most of your skin ripped off.
Toyota's failure was 900X worse than teslas biggest problems.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Tesla has paid back its department of energy loan a long time back and last I checked, didn't take out another.
Unless it starts raining and snowing upstream pretty soon, Hoover Dam isn't going to be a source of much electricity anymore.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that they're getting taxpayer money to cover their power bill. The linked article doesn't discuss the tax breaks; do you have another source of information?
I would hope Tesla stuffs every battery they produce into a "test lab" where they are charged during the sunny day and discharged during the evening.... by selling the excess power to the grid when its most needed (and most expensive I should imagine).
it helps Tesla figure out which batteries are good, and acts as exactly what renewable energy needs most - storage capabilities for the evening.
Why would you pay more?
Natural Gas is cheaper! Why pay more?
Not to mention your numbers are a bit on the wishful thinking side of reality. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C...
According to the government's numbers, Natural Gas is 73% the cost of wind on average, and Solar is nearly 3 times more expensive than Natural Gas. Of course this is IN THE USA (important to remember) and does NOT include tax incentives or funding deals afforded renewable projects, but only actual costs for construction, fuel, and decommissioning the plant after 30 years. (this is the fully burdened cost which actually is more favorable to renewables which have HUGE upfront costs and no fuel costs over time.)
Of course if you WANT to pay more.. Feel free... Which is apparently the case with Tesla. There business model is not about selling cheap cars to the have not's to maximize profits, theirs is a niche market, selling high priced low volume vehicles to the super-rich "have's" who need to appear as champions of the environment and don't mind paying for the appearance of actually caring. Those who want to drive carbon free to catch their chartered jet for their tropical vacation.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101