China Targets 2022 For Space Station Completion

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China Targets 2022 For Space Station Completion

Posted by Soulskill on Thursday September 11, 2014 @01:29AM from the neighbors-for-the-ISS dept.

Taco Cowboy writes: According to Reuters, China is aiming for 2022 to get its first space station operational. "China's leaders have set a priority on advancing its space program, with President Xi Jinping calling for the country to establish itself as a space power." After Chinese astronauts docked with the country's experimental space lab last year, they're planning the launch of another laboratory in 2016. Launch and construction of the new space station's core is planned for 2018, and their goal is to complete it by 2022. China insists that its space program is for peaceful purposes.

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Been there, done that. by MachineShedFred · 2014-09-11 01:32 · Score: 2

Why can't they just participate in the International space station, again?

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Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
1. Re:Been there, done that. by i+kan+reed · 2014-09-11 01:55 · Score: 2
  
  I was going to say they already do, but I didn't spot any Chinese flags on this page.
  I don't know.
2. Re:Been there, done that. by TitusC3v5 · 2014-09-11 01:56 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  They've tried, repeatedly, only to be blocked by US objections each time.
  
  Their own station would probably be more worthwhile anyway - I can't name a single major achievement the ISS had made in the past decade.
  
  --
  And the masses cried out, "09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0!"
3. Re:Been there, done that. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-11 01:56 · Score: 1
  
  Not allowed. US is vetoing their presence.
4. Re: Been there, done that. by WindBourne · 2014-09-11 02:07 · Score: 0, Troll
  
  Zero chance. America helped China before and what was found is that solutions were put into military before civilians. Basically, China values military use over civilian use of space.
  
  where life us going to get interesting is when american private space lands on the moon in 2020-2022 and starts a base.
  
  --
  I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
5. Re:Been there, done that. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-11 02:12 · Score: 1
  
  Why can't they just participate in the International space station, again?
  From Wikipedia's article on the ISS, American legislation prevents NASA co-operation with China on space projects.
6. Re:Been there, done that. by bobbied · 2014-09-11 02:15 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Well... It's stayed up there ya know... That's an achievement..
  Maybe you mean "Advancement"?
  
  --
  "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
7. Re:Been there, done that. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-11 02:21 · Score: 4, Informative
  Interestingly, despite the US blocking international cooperation on the International Space Station, China is welcoming International involvement on the Chinese Space Station.
  China's space station to open for foreign peers
  China's space station to welcome international scientists
  Reminds me of baseball's World Cup. And 1984 (ie doublepeak)
8. Re:Been there, done that. by strong_epoxy · 2014-09-11 02:42 · Score: 2
  
  Technically, it's the Russian space station. They're the only folks that can get there.
9. Re:Been there, done that. by Snotnose · 2014-09-11 03:16 · Score: 1
  
  It got us a pretty cool cover of Space Oddity.
10. Re:Been there, done that. by ColdWetDog · 2014-09-11 03:18 · Score: 2
  
  They were purposely not invited. Then they were sort of not invited (Read the TFA, it's weird). Now they've invited everyone else to join their party.
  If it's your party, you get to decide on the decorations and the cuisine.
  
  --
  Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
11. Re: Been there, done that. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-11 03:25 · Score: 0
  
  Now contrast that with the US, where anything new is evaluated for military purposes first, and the military R&D budget only goes up year after year.
  There is also this fact:
  Military expenditure (% of GDP)
  China 2.1
  United states 3.8
12. Re:Been there, done that. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-11 03:41 · Score: 0
  
  > Why can't they just participate in the International space station, again?
  That's a lesson that took _Americans_ some precious 50 years to learn. Every time I read about someone proud about America, I think here's one that still didn't get the e-mail about the world being ONE. But now, things are so so, the "international" (mostly US and Russia) station is there and receives people from everywhere as guests.
  China is not an aggressive country (at least not like the US and Russia), but it's way shyer. If they could, they would make another Great Wall -- this time around the entire country. Oh, wait, they've done that... a Great Firewall.
  The solution for all this is:
  - making sure China has nothing to fear (obviously by scaling down "defensive" aggressive initiatives);
  - teaching then they are responsible for this world, too, and should stop dumping pollution on us;
  - showing them there's much to be gained by China and by the world if everyone stops bitching and starts working together.
  OK, no expert here, but some things are obvious even to me.
13. Re:Been there, done that. by slashmydots · 2014-09-11 04:20 · Score: 0
  
  Why can't they just participate in the International space station, again?
  Because they want to build their own to prove their amazing Chinese quality standards and engineering skills. In other words, it's going to fall out of the sky. Their 100 billion dollar train or whatever is a cheap Chinese crap engineering disaster. Some of their dams are cheap Chinese crap disasters. I think it's more likely for Nigeria to launch a properly working space station than China.
14. Re:Been there, done that. by whitroth · 2014-09-11 05:04 · Score: 1
  
  Here's a possibility: they want to make their goals.
  First, remember that the GOP in the US Congress almost killed US participation in the Space Station in the early nineties, and has kept the budget as low as they could.
  Second... my late ex, who was an engineer at KSC and worked on both Station and Shuttle, told me how they got an Italian module for the Station... and connector valves were the *wrong* metal (she was also a metallurgist), which would have cause metal/metal corrosion, not really a good thing when you're in orbit. (Ask someone about, say, copper/steel (see ).
  mark, who remembers when the US actually *meant* going to space
15. Re:Been there, done that. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-11 05:06 · Score: 1
  
  Fortunately there has NEVER been a US dam failure?
  Oh wait, there has been many: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dam_failure
  Also US infrastructure is world renowned and there have never been a bridge failure: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bridge_failures (Sort by country for best results)
  And the economist hasn't written about crumbling roads, etc:
  http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21605932-country-where-everyone-drives-america-has-shoddy-roads-bridging-gap
  Finally, since you mentioned high-speed rail the US happens to be behind China, Uzbekistan, South Korea, and Taiwan
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_rail_in_the_United_States#Lack_of_high-speed_rail_development
  Sure is nice to sit on your soapbox and complain about "crap chinese" stuff.
16. Re:Been there, done that. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-11 05:21 · Score: 0
  
  Tell that to Tibet, the Philippines and Vietnam. China will behave best with a gun pointed at their nose.
17. Re:Been there, done that. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-11 06:02 · Score: 1
  
  because unfortunately the Chinese from the mainland, when they have not been sufficiently abroad, which holds for the great majority of them,
  can't work with other nationalities. They have not been exposed to other races and cultures nearly enough,
  and as a result they are still very much inward looking, and can't empathize with other cultures as well as the others already learned to do.
  It is probably a question of time, and of the political situation in China, and although this is improving a little bit already,
  they have a long long way to go.
18. Re:Been there, done that. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-11 06:24 · Score: 1
  
  Orbiting at 7.66km/s, it also travels almost exactly 1000 miles in the time it takes to play I'm Gonna Be (500 miles) by The Proclaimers.
19. Re:Been there, done that. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-11 06:26 · Score: 0
  
  Well, them and Elon. But then, no one wants to call it the Russian-Musk Space Station...
20. Re:Been there, done that. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-11 06:39 · Score: 1
  
  Tibet - what about it?
  You going tell us a one-sided story about how "evil" china was to them and the Dali Lama was some nice guy?
  Do you even know what "Dali Lama" means?
  As i posted the other day:
  Lama was the ruling (elite) class, and the Dali Lama is the head of that class. Not sure the natives of Tibet would like the Lama class back in power.
  Hard to say who is worse, the communists where everyone is poor and equal, or the Lama class which rules you and you are unable to move from your class (serfdom).
  The Dali Lama was such a nice guy he took a paycheck from the CIA.
  He was later unhappy that he was used as a "pawn" in an anti-communism ploy.
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_Tibetan_program
  take a read of the other side of the story :
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serfdom_in_Tibet_controversy
  Both are probably lying through their teeth, so choose which you think is more acceptable.
  I take it you just love your propaganda ?
  You are only interested in Tibet because at a certain point in time it served the US government interests for you to be.
  Once Nixon went to China, that purpose was gone and so was US support for Tibet.
21. Re:Been there, done that. by sillybilly · 2014-09-11 07:26 · Score: 1
  
  That's cuz in the US we don't have good engineers because we have to promote the retards with huge cocks through sports scholarships into colleges, then lower the level of education to their level, and there you go.
22. Re:Been there, done that. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-11 07:30 · Score: 0
  
  I can't name a single major achievement the ISS had made in the past decade.
  Just because you're ignorant, doesn't mean they didn't happen. Read NASA's website, or watch their youtube, or follow their twitter, the info is out there. Just in the last 6 months they've done some pretty amazing things, and I bet at least 3 or 4 things you've read about in the last few months you didn't even realize was from data originating from ISS.
  They really get the most out of those astronauts up there. Sure, 99% of what they do is just regular lab stuff, in a lab that happens to be in microgravity, but that still makes it groundbreaking stuff, because it can't be done anywhere else. So any definition of achievement that didn't include that would be disingenious, but even so, there's plenty of non-lab stuff going on up there too.
  Not only that, but they are really making a huge effort to make the space station available to the general public, if even by proxy. Even children can get their code into an experimental device, etc.
23. Re:Been there, done that. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-11 07:34 · Score: 0
  
  The space program budget could hide in one comma of the defense budget.
  Or the entitlement budget, if you prefer.
24. Re:Been there, done that. by kheldan · 2014-09-11 08:15 · Score: 1
  
  Why can't they just participate in the International space station, again?
  Because their xenophobic policies prohibit 'contamination' of their citizens wherever they can manage to avoid it, and besides which they're probably afraid that the crew they send to the ISS would have a perfect opportunity to defect to the West, seeing as how they'd be outside of any countrys' borders while in orbit.
  
  --
  Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
25. Re: Been there, done that. by Redbehrend · 2014-09-11 09:06 · Score: 1
  
  China is only happy with one thing... taking over the world lol.
26. Re: Been there, done that. by cavreader · 2014-09-11 12:00 · Score: 1
  
  Military R&D has translated into the rapid advancement of civilian commercial applications that benefits not only the US but everyone else in the world, friend or foe. If you have a new technology idea and want the government to fund it you need to offer up a possible military application for the science no matter how tenuous. Your chances of getting funding increase. The GPS system started as a purely military project. The feasibility of a redundant node based distributed networking system (ie Internet) was a DARPA military project. The not so visible contributions are advances in materiel sciences, rocket sciences, computer technologies, medical advances in trauma and prosthetics , aeronautics, civilian radar networks, alternate fuel technologies. The navy is working on turning sea water into a renewable energy source for ships at sea and self-sustaining solar powered field tents. All of these technologies paid for by the military budget eventually end up in the civilian domain and as an added benefit you also end up with the most advanced and lethal military force on the planet.
27. Re: Been there, done that. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-11 12:14 · Score: 0
  
  Based on what, its large number of bases in other countries?
  Its years of endless wars for oil?
  Oh wait... that is the US...
  Other then some small island disputes can you name a time when China expanded?
28. Re:Been there, done that. by AmiMoJo · 2014-09-11 13:10 · Score: 1
  
  Why can't you guys just play nice? Everyone else was okay with Chinese participation in OUR space station, even the Japanese.
  Maybe you could let Japanese teams play in the World Series too.
  
  --
  const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
  SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
29. Re:Been there, done that. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-11 13:46 · Score: 0
  
  Tell that to Tibet, the Philippines and Vietnam. China will behave best with a gun pointed at their nose.
  AC makes an excellent point, we need to keep China out of the ISS.
  If they copied what we did to North America and Australia and applied it towards Tibet, Philippines, and Vietnam, they will surely copy ISS tech for their own space station.
  The Chinese are nothing but a race copycats.
30. Re:Been there, done that. by C0R1D4N · 2014-09-11 16:44 · Score: 1
  
  No one wants to be ruled over by Llamas. They just go around spitting all over you.
31. Re:Been there, done that. by guacamole · 2014-09-11 20:48 · Score: 1
  
  That would violate the prime directive.
32. Re: Been there, done that. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-12 00:54 · Score: 0
  
  There's nothing magical about the military... Its just the money
33. Re:Been there, done that. by ColdWetDog · 2014-09-12 02:49 · Score: 1
  
  Why do you hate America?
  
  --
  Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
34. Re:Been there, done that. by stoatwblr · 2014-09-12 05:45 · Score: 1
  
  They asked.
  The USA said no. All the other nations involved said yes.
35. Re: Been there, done that. by cavreader · 2014-09-12 10:12 · Score: 1
  
  Of course it is about the money just like everything else. However, The money spent on military technology advancements eventually results in that technology ending up in the civilian domain.
36. Re: Been there, done that. by WindBourne · 2014-09-12 15:38 · Score: 1
  
  Several things wrong with that BS.
  1) China has NEVER been transparent with their budget.
  2) much of what is considered military in America and the west, goes under civilian budget, but military control, in china.
  3) China is not a TRUE capitalism. As such, all those that work on the military side, are paid a fraction of what they are paid elsewhere. As such, building an AK-47 in China is a REAL fraction of what it would costs to build in America.
  
  Far more important, is the speed with which China is growing their military, combined with the large number of military secrets that China has stolen from the west (esp. America).
  
  --
  I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
37. Re:Been there, done that. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-12 19:07 · Score: 0
  
  We Chinese people are tiny, hairless creatures. You've seen us in USA movies (Star Wars, etc). Unless you've been born in Australia, like myself.
  Russians, living in Ukraine or not, are obviously very reliable, peace-loving & trust-worthy. Even the Russians in the Sid Meier's Civilization games series show this :-)
  Australia & the USA imprisoned German & Japanese-looking citizens when national war was declared against those nations. History shows that we Chinese-racial looking people will also be imprisoned, when the next "war" is declared. USA's historical record of starting a war every thirty years needs to be maintained. Our Australian conservative Federal & state governments are loudly urging the war-lovers of conservative USA to remove the humanity-loving government of the that N... LONG-LIVE MILITARISM! Guns in every child-care center - NOW.
38. Re:Been there, done that. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-12 23:21 · Score: 0
  
  A lot of junk stays up there ... That's a lot of 'achievement' since the Russians brought humankind into space :-)
39. Re:Been there, done that. by AmiMoJo · 2014-09-13 00:41 · Score: 1
  
  Why does America hate me? Why does it treat the lives of foreigners are worthless, and then expect foreigners to treat it's citizens' lives with more respect?
  
  --
  const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
  SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Why? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-11 01:35 · Score: 0

Why is everyone building their own space stations and GPS satellites?
It seems like everyone is crafting International divisions for the goal of WWIII.
1. Re: Why? by WindBourne · 2014-09-11 02:09 · Score: 1
  
  No, Europe's really is about economics, but China and Russia join america's military focus on this.
  
  --
  I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Taikonaut? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-11 01:36 · Score: 0

I though "Chinese astronauts" were taikonauts? Or are there also American kosmonauts?
Every space program is for peaceful purposes by i+kan+reed · 2014-09-11 01:45 · Score: 2

Every single space program* is currently for peaceful purposes. But every single space program also has incredibly convenient methods to convert to completely-not-for-peace-at-all purposes at a very short notice.
*Unless you count North Korea's "space" "program"
1. Re:Every space program is for peaceful purposes by tomhath · 2014-09-11 01:59 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Every single space program* is currently for peaceful purposes.
  Every space program from the 1950's on has been primarily for two purposes: 1) Espionage 2) Missile technology. Science is a distant third but has always been used as the front for PR purposes.
2. Re:Every space program is for peaceful purposes by Rockoon · 2014-09-11 02:02 · Score: 1
  
  Missile technology. Science is a distant third but has always been used as the front for PR purposes.
  Missile technology is science.
  
  --
  "His name was James Damore."
3. Re:Every space program is for peaceful purposes by bobbied · 2014-09-11 02:18 · Score: 1
  
  Missile technology. Science is a distant third but has always been used as the front for PR purposes.
  Missile technology is science.
  True, but one that is devoted to the quick delivery of things that are of value to military activities.
  
  --
  "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
4. Re:Every space program is for peaceful purposes by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-11 03:10 · Score: 0
  
  I'd guess you could state that for many technological advantages, most things can be used as a weapon if need arises
5. Re:Every space program is for peaceful purposes by DerekLyons · 2014-09-11 04:04 · Score: 1
  
  Every space program from the 1950's on has been primarily for two purposes: 1) Espionage 2) Missile technology.
  The Mercury program was for espionage... how exactly? And the same goes for missile technology, missiles are pretty much universally solid fueled (except for a few legacy Soviet era weapons), space boosters almost universally liquid using solids only as booster (except for a few converted cold war era boosters).
  
  Seriously, while the US and Russian space programs both rely on remote descendents of legacy military hardware, the technology diverged back in the 60's. Space programs want safe (which means liquids, meaning the vehicle is largely inert and thus safe to work around until late in the launch sequence), missile programs want storeable for decades and minimal maintenance issues (which means solids).
6. Re:Every space program is for peaceful purposes by tomhath · 2014-09-11 04:29 · Score: 1
  
  Launching payloads into low Earth orbit was the goal. Do you know what "scientific experiments" the cosmonauts were doing in MIR for all those years? Taking pictures maybe? (no maybe about it, that's why there were up there). Is it a coincidence that the Shuttle's cargo bay was a perfect fit for US spy satellites?
7. Re:Every space program is for peaceful purposes by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-11 04:42 · Score: 0
  
  Because contrary to popular belief we don't have detailed maps of the entire Earth's surface yet? And that satellites have size limitations in order to fit (most) known space launch systems?
  Space programs are very, very, very expensive. If you launch something into space without (hopefully) ever using it, you're pissing BILLIONS of dollars away. And thats not including long term costs like R&D and the infrastructure needed to launch/keep said program(s) running.
8. Re:Every space program is for peaceful purposes by blackomegax · 2014-09-11 05:04 · Score: 1
  
  Say what you will, but NK put a man on the sun before anybody else.
9. Re:Every space program is for peaceful purposes by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-11 06:02 · Score: 0
  
  "missile programs want storeable for decades and minimal maintenance issues (which means solids)."
  Really?
  Seems in the 1980's they were still liquid and hypergolic (self ignition when mixed).
  look up the damascus incident.
10. Re:Every space program is for peaceful purposes by DerekLyons · 2014-09-11 07:04 · Score: 0
  
  Do you know what "scientific experiments" the cosmonauts were doing in MIR for all those years? Taking pictures maybe? (no maybe about it, that's why there were up there).
  The were doing all manner of scientific experiments. And the pictures they took were of far too low a resolution to be useful. (Since they were made with normal handheld cameras.) The space station the Russians used for intelligence work was the Almaz series - the last of which was flown in 1976 and then cancelled because manned stations were much more expensive and had lower capability than unmanned reconnaissance birds. (Essentially the same reason the US cancelled the Manned Orbiting Laboratory.)
  
  Is it a coincidence that the Shuttle's cargo bay was a perfect fit for US spy satellites?
  No, it isn't, and everyone with a clue (a class which does not include you) knows it, so salaciously implying it was some kind of a secret is bullshit. The other thing that everyone with a clue knows is that the Shuttle never launched into the polar orbit such birds required and that while they did fly DoD missions, they flew about ten times as many non-DoD missions. (Refuting your nonsensical claim that they only purpose of the space program was for "espionage".)
11. Re:Every space program is for peaceful purposes by k6mfw · 2014-09-11 08:41 · Score: 1
  
  > Is it a coincidence that the Shuttle's cargo bay was a perfect fit for US spy satellites?
  
  No, it isn't, and everyone with a clue (a class which does not include you) knows it, so salaciously implying it was some kind of a secret
  yes and no. In late '60s and early '70s NASA specified width of cargo bay be 15 ft as anything smaller will make space station modules too cramped for people. USAF wanted cargo bay 60 ft long for their satellites, otherwise NASA would have it shorter (making design for orbiter easier). Shuttles were being planned and scheduled to be launched from Vandenberg in later 1980s. Lots of work done on SLC-6 and long landing strip, and Enterprise was used for configuration checks at SLC-6. Missions were planned but Challenger accident put a stop to all that (and military had to scramble to get Titan back on line to launch their sats).
  
  --
  mfwright@batnet.com
Gravity Predition Come True by tekrat · 2014-09-11 01:45 · Score: 2

The Movie "Gravity" had Sandra Bullock aiming for a Chinese Space Station which she ultimately uses to get home. Fuuny thing is; when the movie was made, I scoffed at the Chinese Space Station for being "sci-fi"; but it looks like they got me, and there will indeed be such a station (but no Space Shuttle, sorry George Clooney!).
So, Gravity was right!

--
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
1. Re:Gravity Predition Come True by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-11 02:07 · Score: 0
  
  China already had two small stations.
2. Re:Gravity Predition Come True by alexander_686 · 2014-09-11 02:51 · Score: 1
  
  If you pick apart the movie it takes place in the early 2020s.
  One clue is the Chinese space station. Another clue is the Shuttle mission number, which would have been a valid number if the shuttles had kept on flying into 2020.
3. Re:Gravity Predition Come True by deadweight · 2014-09-11 02:55 · Score: 2
  
  The idea that they are all basically in spacesuit commuting range of each other was more sci-fi than just having one.
4. Re:Gravity Predition Come True by Dan+East · 2014-09-11 03:30 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  Here's a good analogy for the movie. Imagine that the hubble / shuttle and each of the two space stations are actually ships in the ocean. When you're in a spacesuit you're in a little dinghy paddling with oars. Thus there are only 3 ships in all the oceans, each operated by a different country with no coordination as to their positioning, yet miraculously they are all so close together in the vast stretches of the ocean that you can easily row from one to another.
  Even then, the analogy still doesn't begin to do justice, because orbits are all about motion and not position, and are 3D with elevation, inclination, etc, etc, as well, so there are even more "places" to be than the entire expanses and depths of all the Earth's oceans.
  
  --
  Better known as 318230.
5. Re:Gravity Predition Come True by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-11 05:13 · Score: 0
  
  I don't find your analogy any more believable than that opening sequence of the station being destroyed. Yes the distances are vast, but getting from one orbit to another can involve very little thrust, only time, knowledge of orbital mechanics & positional information is really necessary. The crew of Apollo 13 were able to get themselves back on a free return trajectory with a crippled spacecraft, a telescope and a lunar descent rocket.
6. Re:Gravity Predition Come True by timeOday · 2014-09-11 08:02 · Score: 1
  
  Perhaps the space stations (in the universe of the movie) were orbited that way to facilitate resupply of all 3 with one launch.
7. Re:Gravity Predition Come True by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-11 11:13 · Score: 0
  
  Apollo 13 was launched on a free return trajectory, as were Apollo 8, 10, 11, and 12. They deviated a bit to get a better landing site, and returned to (more or less) the previous trajectory with a small correctional burn (which did not involve a telescope). Getting from one orbit to another can involve very little thrust, but we measure it in delta-v, and it does actually tend to involve large numbers. The orbital change depicted in Gravitation would have been out of range for the space shuttle they were working on. The ISS orbits much closer to the Earth, which means that it needs to be moving much faster not to hit the ground, about 700 ft per second faster. It doesn't really matter how fast you make that change in velocity, but you aren't going to do it without a bunch of fuel.
Maybe they don't want to share? by EzInKy · 2014-09-11 01:48 · Score: 1, Interesting

It could also be that they have experiments they want to perform that wouldn't be allowed on the International Space Station.

--
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
1. Re:Maybe they don't want to share? by bobbied · 2014-09-11 02:14 · Score: 0
  
  You mean like weaponizing space kind of experiments?
  
  --
  "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
2. Re:Maybe they don't want to share? by EzInKy · 2014-09-11 02:30 · Score: 1
  
  Not necessarily, could be they don't want to have to bicker with a bunch of other nations over which experiments take priority.
  
  --
  Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
It is called the trickle down effect by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-11 02:00 · Score: 2, Insightful

"China insists that its space program is for peaceful purposes."
The technology will find it's way into everything from cars to nuclear weapons. That's what research and technology does, it spreads to new and different areas. Sometimes for the better, sometimes not.
The good thing about this is that maybe other countries will sit up and take notice. Even if you put aside the fact that we should have a lunar base by now, why doesn't the ISS have some sort of light maneuvering craft? A small 2-3 person craft could access satellites, do research away from the ISS, or even (with a slightly larger craft) do mapping and surveying missions of the moon. The Apollo program did great work with pretty basic craft by today's standards. A light maneuvering craft could also transfer personnel and supplies from one space station to another. Hey NASA, the astronauts need a space Mini-van for the weekends!
1. Re:It is called the trickle down effect by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-11 02:07 · Score: 0
  
  What technology? China already builds everything we use!
  And what possible purpose would a lunar base serve? What satellites are at the ISS's altitude anyhow?
  What possible use would people in space serve???
  Do you also dream of the days of the Trieste?
2. Re:It is called the trickle down effect by alexander_686 · 2014-09-11 02:53 · Score: 1
  
  Define "builds everything we use". China builds (assembles) the iPhone, adding about $3 for a $600 phone. (I know that is retail, but still..)
3. Re:It is called the trickle down effect by ColdWetDog · 2014-09-11 03:24 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  .. why doesn't the ISS have some sort of light maneuvering craft? A small 2-3 person craft could access satellites, do research away from the ISS, or even (with a slightly larger craft) do mapping and surveying missions of the moon.
  Look up Delta V and get back to us with your handy 'little' spacecraft.
  
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  Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
4. Re:It is called the trickle down effect by 50000BTU_barbecue · 2014-09-11 03:25 · Score: 1
  
  Simple. Look at the label of the computer you're using right now. Then go look at your canned food, your TV, your lawnmower ...
  
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  Mostly random stuff.
5. Re:It is called the trickle down effect by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-11 03:29 · Score: 0
  
  Where did the components IN the phone come from?
6. Re:It is called the trickle down effect by alexander_686 · 2014-09-11 04:19 · Score: 1
  
  Lenovo, which oddly means in the US. But let us go a step further.
  The screen was made probabbly made in South Korea, but the glass for that screen in the US.
  The chips were probabbly made in a 1/2 dozen companies. Taiwan (is that part of China?), S. Korea, Japan, and the US are probabbly the biggest ones.
  The plastic probabbly came from the US even if it was molded someplace else.
  A good chunk of the design was also done in the US and other countries.
  For all the examples given (except maybe the can food, which I sincerely doubt since China is a net importer of food) China does the low end assembly work. This is changing, but I still think you need to reexamine your point.
7. Re:It is called the trickle down effect by 50000BTU_barbecue · 2014-09-11 04:36 · Score: 1
  
  Awful lot of probablys in there, friend.
  
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  Mostly random stuff.
8. Re:It is called the trickle down effect by alexander_686 · 2014-09-11 05:12 · Score: 1
  
  But less than you think because we are talking about strong probabblities.
  IIRC S. Korea has 70%+ of the market share for LCD screens, while Japan comes in second. Together they control over 95% of the market. The glass is similar, the US has 70% market share, while Japan comes in second.
  We know where most of the foundaries are. We can debate where the various CPU, memory, and other control chips come from. We know the CPUs can't come from China. With the other chips, China is low in the league tables.
  Etc.
9. Re:It is called the trickle down effect by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-11 05:25 · Score: 0
  
  And what does this have to do with space? None of those countries have a space station and they're, according to your own probabilities, world technology leaders.
  Seems to me space is unnecessary.
10. Re:It is called the trickle down effect by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-11 13:10 · Score: 0
  
  The fact that you're trying so hard to "prove" Chinese are "low in the league" pretty much divulges your inner true feelings that they are a credible power.
  I just wish you put as much effort into disproving the Nigerian space program, which, after all, is the real threat.
  LCD? Glass? You're clutching at straw dude. These things are not exactly hightech.
  Would you be surprised the Mars rovers use CCD camera chips made in Canada? Where are they in the international league?
  Last time I looked, there were no shortage of chips in my electronics that are made in China.
  Also they do have their own CPU.
  If you really want to split hair, America doesn't strictly manufacture chips.
  Owing to the nature of globalism, Intel, IBM, Analog Device... has to import some equipment from countries such as Germany, Netherlands...
Yeah, right! by bogaboga · 2014-09-11 02:07 · Score: 2

China insists that its space program is for peaceful purposes...
...with military characteristics...[or at least relevance].
Am I the only one hoping for another space race? by argStyopa · 2014-09-11 02:25 · Score: 1

Seriously, I hope that this would be enough to make the US government take seriously its long-term strategic responsibilities in regards to securing the "high ground" at critical points in our gravity well.*,**
* like the Lagrange points & the north and south lunar poles. These will be as critical for the 21st century as coaling stations were in the L19/E20th centuries.
** Don't get me wrong, I don't expect this to happen. Politicians see a far better immediate funding return to favoring their giant-megacorp friends, or (in a longer view) vote-to-government-largesse RoI to dumping government money on the overbreeding underclass or swarming illegals. In short, space stations don't vote, and neither (today) do the US citizens in a century or two who'll have to live with the missed strategic missteps of today. (shrug)

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-Styopa
funding contributed by you by k6mfw · 2014-09-11 02:45 · Score: 1, Informative

from purchasing manufactured items (that used to be done here in US).

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mfwright@batnet.com
1. Re:funding contributed by you by 50000BTU_barbecue · 2014-09-11 03:21 · Score: 2
  
  I didn't get a choice in the matter. I keep my small electronics lab going with old North American test equipment, but except for tubes and other vintage parts, everything else is from China now.
  What can I do about it?
  
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  Mostly random stuff.
2. Re:funding contributed by you by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-11 05:36 · Score: 1
  
  Whelp seeing as you typically have the choice of either
  A) Buying parts directly from china, or
  B) Buying parts from a reseller in the US who bought the parts from china and marked them up....
  There really isn't much to be done unless you are willing to throw out environmental regulation and forget about that pesky minimum wage thing.
3. Re:funding contributed by you by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-12 19:27 · Score: 0
  
  South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, etc ... might have better products than China. With less environmental pollutions, fairer wages for the staff.
Re:Am I the only one hoping for another space race by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-11 03:05 · Score: 0

OK, look, we get it, you read a lot of sci-fi as a kid. Now put it on the shelf next to the Dr Seuss and join us in reality. Space is over, finished, dead.
Industrial Espionage by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-11 03:37 · Score: 0

Some Congresspeople are worried about Chinese industrial espionage. Considering the amount of espionage that China does, I can't blame them. I'd like America to ban Israel too, for the same reason.
1. Re:Industrial Espionage by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-11 04:53 · Score: 0
  
  Unlike US industrial espionage that other nations are concerned about?
Must be nice by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-11 03:57 · Score: 1

Must be nice to have a strong industrial base.
sweet by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-11 04:37 · Score: 0

im looking to visit the NEW SPACEMart stores in orbit
Industrial Espionage by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-11 05:19 · Score: 0

A little Jew hating is irresistible to some people, no matter the topic.
Maybe 2015? by UmarOMC · 2014-09-11 05:19 · Score: 0

But they'd have to use Chinese parts...

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MacPro 4,1 2.66GHz/Radeon HD 4870/Mac OS X 10.6.x
Re: Am I the only one hoping for another space rac by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-11 05:49 · Score: 0

The US needs another space race! I wonder how many people on this site are engineers because they got up early to watch images beamed from the moon or shuttle launches; I know I'm an engineer because of those events.
The Chinese are trying to create a modern society and they have either stumbled upon or realized rationally the idea that taking big risks makes people think big. They will get military learning of some sort out of it, as we did, but they will also inspire a bunch of Chinese kids to come up with something that benefits their society, and most likely, ours as well. We cannot even agree to fix our aging infrastructure in this country, much less do Kennedy's hard things because they are hard.
I used to think China was what Japan was in the 80's, a country that stumbles and never reaches their hyped potential. But I think "failure is not an option" for them, as it once was for us. We'll continue to be petulant and deny them access to ISS and the South China Sea and whatever else we're scared of losing but not able to actual champion on the backs of our recent accomplishments.
*yawn* by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-11 07:56 · Score: 0

wondering when the Chinese will build a "innovation research center" that might come up with some novel goals to strive for.
if it is only half as good as the existing "copy-everything institute" then be prepared for some world changing stuff : P
I for one... by Hattmannen · 2014-09-11 21:37 · Score: 1

I, for one, welcomes our Chinese space overlords.

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People are not wearing enough hats.
Ob. Armageddon Quote! by DarthVain · 2014-09-12 06:07 · Score: 1

Lev Andropov: It's stuck, yes?
Watts: Back off! You don't know the components!
Lev Andropov: [annoyed] Components. American components, Russian Components, ALL MADE IN TAIWAN!
Re:"Insists" by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-12 19:36 · Score: 0

"You put all your beans towards murdering arabs, " ... Pakistanees, Muslims, Afghanees, "drugees", "black USA men", ...
History shows that USA has mass-murdered many central & south Americans, North Koreans, Vietnamese, Cambodians, etc. Soon ... Chinese (in China; others in USA, etc will be imprisoned, rather than poisoned & murdered).