China Targets 2022 For Space Station Completion

Taco Cowboy writes: According to Reuters, China is aiming for 2022 to get its first space station operational. "China's leaders have set a priority on advancing its space program, with President Xi Jinping calling for the country to establish itself as a space power." After Chinese astronauts docked with the country's experimental space lab last year, they're planning the launch of another laboratory in 2016. Launch and construction of the new space station's core is planned for 2018, and their goal is to complete it by 2022. China insists that its space program is for peaceful purposes.

Comments

Been there, done that.

[MachineShedFred]

Why can't they just participate in the International space station, again?

Re:Been there, done that.

[i kan reed]

I was going to say they already do, but I didn't spot any Chinese flags on this page.

I don't know.

Re:Been there, done that.

[TitusC3v5]

They've tried, repeatedly, only to be blocked by US objections each time.

Their own station would probably be more worthwhile anyway - I can't name a single major achievement the ISS had made in the past decade.

Re:Been there, done that.

[Anonymous Coward]

Not allowed. US is vetoing their presence.

Re:Been there, done that.

[Anonymous Coward]

Why can't they just participate in the International space station, again?

From Wikipedia's article on the ISS, American legislation prevents NASA co-operation with China on space projects.

Re:Been there, done that.

[bobbied]

Well... It's stayed up there ya know... That's an achievement..

Maybe you mean "Advancement"?

Re:Been there, done that.

[Anonymous Coward]

Interestingly, despite the US blocking international cooperation on the International Space Station, China is welcoming International involvement on the Chinese Space Station.

• China's space station to open for foreign peers
• China's space station to welcome international scientists

Reminds me of baseball's World Cup. And 1984 (ie doublepeak)

Re:Been there, done that.

[strong_epoxy]

Technically, it's the Russian space station. They're the only folks that can get there.

Re:Been there, done that.

[Snotnose]

It got us a pretty cool cover of Space Oddity.

Re:Been there, done that.

[ColdWetDog]

They were purposely not invited. Then they were sort of not invited (Read the TFA, it's weird). Now they've invited everyone else to join their party.

If it's your party, you get to decide on the decorations and the cuisine.

Re:Been there, done that.

[whitroth]

Here's a possibility: they want to make their goals.

First, remember that the GOP in the US Congress almost killed US participation in the Space Station in the early nineties, and has kept the budget as low as they could.

Second... my late ex, who was an engineer at KSC and worked on both Station and Shuttle, told me how they got an Italian module for the Station... and connector valves were the *wrong* metal (she was also a metallurgist), which would have cause metal/metal corrosion, not really a good thing when you're in orbit. (Ask someone about, say, copper/steel (see ).

                  mark, who remembers when the US actually *meant* going to space

Re:Been there, done that.

[Anonymous Coward]

Fortunately there has NEVER been a US dam failure?
Oh wait, there has been many: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dam_failure

Also US infrastructure is world renowned and there have never been a bridge failure: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bridge_failures (Sort by country for best results)

And the economist hasn't written about crumbling roads, etc:
http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21605932-country-where-everyone-drives-america-has-shoddy-roads-bridging-gap

Finally, since you mentioned high-speed rail the US happens to be behind China, Uzbekistan, South Korea, and Taiwan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_rail_in_the_United_States#Lack_of_high-speed_rail_development

Sure is nice to sit on your soapbox and complain about "crap chinese" stuff.

Re:Been there, done that.

[Anonymous Coward]

because unfortunately the Chinese from the mainland, when they have not been sufficiently abroad, which holds for the great majority of them,
can't work with other nationalities. They have not been exposed to other races and cultures nearly enough,
and as a result they are still very much inward looking, and can't empathize with other cultures as well as the others already learned to do.
It is probably a question of time, and of the political situation in China, and although this is improving a little bit already,
they have a long long way to go.

Re:Been there, done that.

[Anonymous Coward]

Orbiting at 7.66km/s, it also travels almost exactly 1000 miles in the time it takes to play I'm Gonna Be (500 miles) by The Proclaimers.

Re:Been there, done that.

[Anonymous Coward]

Tibet - what about it?

You going tell us a one-sided story about how "evil" china was to them and the Dali Lama was some nice guy?

Do you even know what "Dali Lama" means?
As i posted the other day:

Lama was the ruling (elite) class, and the Dali Lama is the head of that class. Not sure the natives of Tibet would like the Lama class back in power.
Hard to say who is worse, the communists where everyone is poor and equal, or the Lama class which rules you and you are unable to move from your class (serfdom).

The Dali Lama was such a nice guy he took a paycheck from the CIA.
He was later unhappy that he was used as a "pawn" in an anti-communism ploy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_Tibetan_program

take a read of the other side of the story :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serfdom_in_Tibet_controversy

Both are probably lying through their teeth, so choose which you think is more acceptable.

I take it you just love your propaganda ?

You are only interested in Tibet because at a certain point in time it served the US government interests for you to be.
Once Nixon went to China, that purpose was gone and so was US support for Tibet.

Re:Been there, done that.

[sillybilly]

That's cuz in the US we don't have good engineers because we have to promote the retards with huge cocks through sports scholarships into colleges, then lower the level of education to their level, and there you go.

Re:Been there, done that.

[kheldan]

Why can't they just participate in the International space station, again?

Because their xenophobic policies prohibit 'contamination' of their citizens wherever they can manage to avoid it, and besides which they're probably afraid that the crew they send to the ISS would have a perfect opportunity to defect to the West, seeing as how they'd be outside of any countrys' borders while in orbit.

Re: Been there, done that.

[Redbehrend]

China is only happy with one thing... taking over the world lol.

Re: Been there, done that.

[cavreader]

Military R&D has translated into the rapid advancement of civilian commercial applications that benefits not only the US but everyone else in the world, friend or foe. If you have a new technology idea and want the government to fund it you need to offer up a possible military application for the science no matter how tenuous. Your chances of getting funding increase. The GPS system started as a purely military project. The feasibility of a redundant node based distributed networking system (ie Internet) was a DARPA military project. The not so visible contributions are advances in materiel sciences, rocket sciences, computer technologies, medical advances in trauma and prosthetics , aeronautics, civilian radar networks, alternate fuel technologies. The navy is working on turning sea water into a renewable energy source for ships at sea and self-sustaining solar powered field tents. All of these technologies paid for by the military budget eventually end up in the civilian domain and as an added benefit you also end up with the most advanced and lethal military force on the planet.

Re:Been there, done that.

[AmiMoJo]

Why can't you guys just play nice? Everyone else was okay with Chinese participation in OUR space station, even the Japanese.

Maybe you could let Japanese teams play in the World Series too.

Re:Been there, done that.

[C0R1D4N]

No one wants to be ruled over by Llamas. They just go around spitting all over you.

Re:Been there, done that.

[guacamole]

That would violate the prime directive.

Re:Been there, done that.

[ColdWetDog]

Why do you hate America?

Re:Been there, done that.

[stoatwblr]

They asked.

The USA said no. All the other nations involved said yes.

Re: Been there, done that.

[cavreader]

Of course it is about the money just like everything else. However, The money spent on military technology advancements eventually results in that technology ending up in the civilian domain.

Re: Been there, done that.

[WindBourne]

Several things wrong with that BS.
1) China has NEVER been transparent with their budget.
2) much of what is considered military in America and the west, goes under civilian budget, but military control, in china.
3) China is not a TRUE capitalism. As such, all those that work on the military side, are paid a fraction of what they are paid elsewhere. As such, building an AK-47 in China is a REAL fraction of what it would costs to build in America.

Far more important, is the speed with which China is growing their military, combined with the large number of military secrets that China has stolen from the west (esp. America).

Re:Been there, done that.

[AmiMoJo]

Why does America hate me? Why does it treat the lives of foreigners are worthless, and then expect foreigners to treat it's citizens' lives with more respect?

Every space program is for peaceful purposes

[i kan reed]

Every single space program* is currently for peaceful purposes. But every single space program also has incredibly convenient methods to convert to completely-not-for-peace-at-all purposes at a very short notice.

*Unless you count North Korea's "space" "program"

Re:Every space program is for peaceful purposes

[tomhath]

Every single space program* is currently for peaceful purposes.

Every space program from the 1950's on has been primarily for two purposes: 1) Espionage 2) Missile technology. Science is a distant third but has always been used as the front for PR purposes.

Re:Every space program is for peaceful purposes

[Rockoon]

Missile technology. Science is a distant third but has always been used as the front for PR purposes.

Missile technology is science.

Re:Every space program is for peaceful purposes

[bobbied]

Missile technology. Science is a distant third but has always been used as the front for PR purposes.

Missile technology is science.

True, but one that is devoted to the quick delivery of things that are of value to military activities.

Re:Every space program is for peaceful purposes

[DerekLyons]

Every space program from the 1950's on has been primarily for two purposes: 1) Espionage 2) Missile technology.

The Mercury program was for espionage... how exactly? And the same goes for missile technology, missiles are pretty much universally solid fueled (except for a few legacy Soviet era weapons), space boosters almost universally liquid using solids only as booster (except for a few converted cold war era boosters).
 
Seriously, while the US and Russian space programs both rely on remote descendents of legacy military hardware, the technology diverged back in the 60's. Space programs want safe (which means liquids, meaning the vehicle is largely inert and thus safe to work around until late in the launch sequence), missile programs want storeable for decades and minimal maintenance issues (which means solids).

Re:Every space program is for peaceful purposes

[tomhath]

Launching payloads into low Earth orbit was the goal. Do you know what "scientific experiments" the cosmonauts were doing in MIR for all those years? Taking pictures maybe? (no maybe about it, that's why there were up there). Is it a coincidence that the Shuttle's cargo bay was a perfect fit for US spy satellites?

Re:Every space program is for peaceful purposes

[blackomegax]

Say what you will, but NK put a man on the sun before anybody else.

Re:Every space program is for peaceful purposes

[k6mfw]

> Is it a coincidence that the Shuttle's cargo bay was a perfect fit for US spy satellites?

No, it isn't, and everyone with a clue (a class which does not include you) knows it, so salaciously implying it was some kind of a secret

yes and no. In late '60s and early '70s NASA specified width of cargo bay be 15 ft as anything smaller will make space station modules too cramped for people. USAF wanted cargo bay 60 ft long for their satellites, otherwise NASA would have it shorter (making design for orbiter easier). Shuttles were being planned and scheduled to be launched from Vandenberg in later 1980s. Lots of work done on SLC-6 and long landing strip, and Enterprise was used for configuration checks at SLC-6. Missions were planned but Challenger accident put a stop to all that (and military had to scramble to get Titan back on line to launch their sats).

Gravity Predition Come True

[tekrat]

The Movie "Gravity" had Sandra Bullock aiming for a Chinese Space Station which she ultimately uses to get home. Fuuny thing is; when the movie was made, I scoffed at the Chinese Space Station for being "sci-fi"; but it looks like they got me, and there will indeed be such a station (but no Space Shuttle, sorry George Clooney!).

So, Gravity was right!

Re:Gravity Predition Come True

[alexander_686]

If you pick apart the movie it takes place in the early 2020s.

One clue is the Chinese space station. Another clue is the Shuttle mission number, which would have been a valid number if the shuttles had kept on flying into 2020.

Re:Gravity Predition Come True

[deadweight]

The idea that they are all basically in spacesuit commuting range of each other was more sci-fi than just having one.

Re:Gravity Predition Come True

[Dan East]

Here's a good analogy for the movie. Imagine that the hubble / shuttle and each of the two space stations are actually ships in the ocean. When you're in a spacesuit you're in a little dinghy paddling with oars. Thus there are only 3 ships in all the oceans, each operated by a different country with no coordination as to their positioning, yet miraculously they are all so close together in the vast stretches of the ocean that you can easily row from one to another.

Even then, the analogy still doesn't begin to do justice, because orbits are all about motion and not position, and are 3D with elevation, inclination, etc, etc, as well, so there are even more "places" to be than the entire expanses and depths of all the Earth's oceans.

Re:Gravity Predition Come True

[timeOday]

Perhaps the space stations (in the universe of the movie) were orbited that way to facilitate resupply of all 3 with one launch.

Maybe they don't want to share?

[EzInKy]

It could also be that they have experiments they want to perform that wouldn't be allowed on the International Space Station.

Re:Maybe they don't want to share?

[EzInKy]

Not necessarily, could be they don't want to have to bicker with a bunch of other nations over which experiments take priority.

It is called the trickle down effect

[Anonymous Coward]

"China insists that its space program is for peaceful purposes."

The technology will find it's way into everything from cars to nuclear weapons. That's what research and technology does, it spreads to new and different areas. Sometimes for the better, sometimes not.

The good thing about this is that maybe other countries will sit up and take notice. Even if you put aside the fact that we should have a lunar base by now, why doesn't the ISS have some sort of light maneuvering craft? A small 2-3 person craft could access satellites, do research away from the ISS, or even (with a slightly larger craft) do mapping and surveying missions of the moon. The Apollo program did great work with pretty basic craft by today's standards. A light maneuvering craft could also transfer personnel and supplies from one space station to another. Hey NASA, the astronauts need a space Mini-van for the weekends!

Re:It is called the trickle down effect

[alexander_686]

Define "builds everything we use". China builds (assembles) the iPhone, adding about $3 for a $600 phone. (I know that is retail, but still..)

Re:It is called the trickle down effect

[ColdWetDog]

.. why doesn't the ISS have some sort of light maneuvering craft? A small 2-3 person craft could access satellites, do research away from the ISS, or even (with a slightly larger craft) do mapping and surveying missions of the moon.

Look up Delta V and get back to us with your handy 'little' spacecraft.

Re:It is called the trickle down effect

[50000BTU_barbecue]

Simple. Look at the label of the computer you're using right now. Then go look at your canned food, your TV, your lawnmower ...

Re:It is called the trickle down effect

[alexander_686]

Lenovo, which oddly means in the US. But let us go a step further.
        The screen was made probabbly made in South Korea, but the glass for that screen in the US.
          The chips were probabbly made in a 1/2 dozen companies. Taiwan (is that part of China?), S. Korea, Japan, and the US are probabbly the biggest ones.
          The plastic probabbly came from the US even if it was molded someplace else.
          A good chunk of the design was also done in the US and other countries.

For all the examples given (except maybe the can food, which I sincerely doubt since China is a net importer of food) China does the low end assembly work. This is changing, but I still think you need to reexamine your point.

Re:It is called the trickle down effect

[50000BTU_barbecue]

Awful lot of probablys in there, friend.

Re:It is called the trickle down effect

[alexander_686]

But less than you think because we are talking about strong probabblities.

IIRC S. Korea has 70%+ of the market share for LCD screens, while Japan comes in second. Together they control over 95% of the market. The glass is similar, the US has 70% market share, while Japan comes in second.

We know where most of the foundaries are. We can debate where the various CPU, memory, and other control chips come from. We know the CPUs can't come from China. With the other chips, China is low in the league tables.

Etc.

Yeah, right!

[bogaboga]

China insists that its space program is for peaceful purposes...

...with military characteristics...[or at least relevance].

Re: Why?

[WindBourne]

No, Europe's really is about economics, but China and Russia join america's military focus on this.

Am I the only one hoping for another space race?

[argStyopa]

Seriously, I hope that this would be enough to make the US government take seriously its long-term strategic responsibilities in regards to securing the "high ground" at critical points in our gravity well.*,**

* like the Lagrange points & the north and south lunar poles. These will be as critical for the 21st century as coaling stations were in the L19/E20th centuries.
** Don't get me wrong, I don't expect this to happen. Politicians see a far better immediate funding return to favoring their giant-megacorp friends, or (in a longer view) vote-to-government-largesse RoI to dumping government money on the overbreeding underclass or swarming illegals. In short, space stations don't vote, and neither (today) do the US citizens in a century or two who'll have to live with the missed strategic missteps of today. (shrug)

funding contributed by you

[k6mfw]

from purchasing manufactured items (that used to be done here in US).

Re:funding contributed by you

[50000BTU_barbecue]

I didn't get a choice in the matter. I keep my small electronics lab going with old North American test equipment, but except for tubes and other vintage parts, everything else is from China now.

What can I do about it?

Re:funding contributed by you

[Anonymous Coward]

Whelp seeing as you typically have the choice of either
A) Buying parts directly from china, or
B) Buying parts from a reseller in the US who bought the parts from china and marked them up....

There really isn't much to be done unless you are willing to throw out environmental regulation and forget about that pesky minimum wage thing.

Must be nice

[Anonymous Coward]

Must be nice to have a strong industrial base.

I for one...

[Hattmannen]

I, for one, welcomes our Chinese space overlords.

Ob. Armageddon Quote!

[DarthVain]

Lev Andropov: It's stuck, yes?
Watts: Back off! You don't know the components!
Lev Andropov: [annoyed] Components. American components, Russian Components, ALL MADE IN TAIWAN!