Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Windows Tax Shot Down In Italy

Posted by timothy on from the note-that-it's-not-a-tax dept.

An anonymous reader writes Italy's High Court has struck a blow to the practice of forcing non-free software on buyers of PCs and laptops. According to La Repubblica, the court ruled on Thursday that a laptop buyer was entitled to receive a refund for the price of the Microsoft Windows license on his computer. The judges sharply criticised the practice of selling PCs only together with a non-free operating system as "a commercial policy of forced distribution". The court slammed this practice as "monopolistic in tendency." It also highlighted that the practice of bundling means that end users are forced into using additional non-free applications due to compatibility and interoperability issues, whether they wanted these programs or not. "This decision is both welcome and long overdue", said Karsten Gerloff, President of the Free Software Foundation Europe. "No vendor should be allowed to cram non-free software down the throats of users."

17 of 421 comments (clear)

  1. What about other devices? by recoiledsnake · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Since computing is moving to tablets and phones, can we get OS refunds for iDevices and Android tablets and phones also ?

    Also, is this applicable to Macs?

    --
    This space for rent.
    1. Re:What about other devices? by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It only applies if the OS and device are really two separate entities. For Macs you could argue that you should be able to buy the device without the OS. For phones, it seems that the OS is part of the device, especially in case of iPhones (what else are you going to run on them). Keep in mind that iOS isn't sold separately either, nor are there any charges for upgrades.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    2. Re:What about other devices? by Plunky · · Score: 4, Informative

      As far as I can tell Android appears to be FOSS. You might need a version without Googles logos for it to be legal to use without paying them though?

      here you go: Cyanogenmod Downloads

    3. Re:What about other devices? by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 3, Insightful
      The great thing about android phones is that, unlike iPhones, you don't have to go through the "official app store". No Google Play account needed.

      As for hurting alternative search engines ... just bookmark the one you prefer to use. Same with web maps. Same with email, calendaring, etc. And if that's not enough, the dev tools are free, no annual license, so if you can't find what you want, what's stopping you from making your own apps, including apps that use alternative search engines? Or having those search engines create their own apps? Bing, Yahoo, DuckDuckGo, and a whole bunch of other search engine apps are available for free directly from Google Play.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    4. Re:What about other devices? by JohnMadsen · · Score: 3, Informative

      Sorry grandma, you need to purchase and install windows separately. No, the same model laptop with windows pre-installed is out f stock - it always is. No, I don't have time but the store geek cage will install it for $70/hr. Yes, I know it costs as much as windows to install it. Just shut up, take your pills, and fork over the money. Yes, yes, I know you are getting ass raped. OK, just order you one with Windows pre-installed. [Hangs up. Thinking to self - if that bitch calls again, I and sending her to voice mail.] If they did do this, each model from each manufacturer will sell a version with Windows installed and without Windows installed. The majority, the average fart sucking person does not want to install windows or linux, does not know how, and will not ever want to waste their time learning now to. Because average people do not do that kinda of thing. Now the geek will be happy (maybe 5% of sales will be OS-less models sold) and probably just pirates windows anyway. Offering different models will just add additional cost to the OS-less version, which will make it 20 bucks cheaper which negates the trouble of doing this whole exercise. Also, the OS-less version would probably be a special order because very few people will purchase one. Just think how many less people (80%) would have even bothered to buy a PC is this policy was in place. Think of the 90s wen you really have to be above average to a blank computer and get it working. For the children out there, you have no reference and probably cant even understand this concept. Now, is this really a good idea?

      --
      Fuckers
    5. Re:What about other devices? by Archtech · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Oh by the way, Grandma... you can buy this PC with Linux pre-installed for less than the other one without Windows. That's because Linux needs less powerful hardware to run properly. Oh, and you'll find it just as easy (if that's the word) to use as Windows.

      Freedom! Isn't it good?

      --
      I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
    6. Re:What about other devices? by Darinbob · · Score: 3, Informative

      Monopoly does not mean owning 100% of the market and it does not mean there is no competition. It means that they dominate the market enough that their position in one market will leverage them unfairly in other markets. There have been legal judgements declaring Microsoft a monopoly, it's not just my opinion.

    7. Re:What about other devices? by Nikademus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      People really don't care what OS is on their computer, as long as it pre-installed and works the way they know. It could be QNX or plan9 or anything else, as long as they are able to to the things they know how to do.

      --
      I gave up with the idea of an useful sig...
  2. Separate hardware from software by oever · · Score: 4, Interesting

    A law that forbids selling hardware and software together would increase innovation. Consumers would only be able to buy hardware and software separately. That way, hardware vendors are encouraged to document the hardware and software vendors will compete on quality. Installation procedures would become very easy very quickly due to market pressure.

    --
    DNA is the ultimate spaghetti code.
    1. Re:Separate hardware from software by jaguy · · Score: 3, Informative

      What about the very blurry line between the definition of software and hardware? A compute devices shipping with no BIOS? Compute devices won't even power up without software. Then there's all the code that's embedded in the various silicon devices on the motherboard.

  3. Need more than a legal precedent by EmperorOfCanada · · Score: 4, Interesting

    More than a legal precedent this needs solid regulations with teeth. I suspect that if you walk into whatever the Italian equivalent of Best Buy waving this judgement around and demanding a refund that they will just have security escort you out. But if refusal to even offer a Windows free machine was worthy of a fine, let alone not removing it, then windows free machines would be widely available.

    Also the removal of Windows should have to be free and done in a timely manner (under an hour).

    1. Re:Need more than a legal precedent by pr0fessor · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Here is thing when you walk into best buy or what ever they have limited shelf space they are only going to stock what they can sell... Which just happens to be windows based or a Mac. {they will also have some chromebooks and android tablets}

      Now they don't want to stock a bunch of no os desktops because people {the majority of people} just want their stuff to work right out of the box. They can't afford to use that space when they could fill it with another item that will sell better.

      As for anyone else you can go online and order a computer with linux or no os from multiple vendors... I may not be able to go pick up a linux laptop from the local store but I can order one on the dell website.

      I can go to the local store and buy levi's jeans but not every fit and color levi's I have to order some of those online too.

  4. Not of i*Devices by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The difference is that Apple sells the device and the OS together while Microsoft only sells (or rather gives a licence) for the OS. The vendor is a different party. Hence you cannot buy a "HP" or "Sony" or "Samsung" or "Asus" computer without Windows on it. The windows licence cost is hidden in the seller's price. So the OS and the hardware aren't a bundle by the same company and hence you can't demand back money for your iDevice.

    However, I wonder how that is handled in the case of Android. Android is freely available for download. However hardware manufacturers haven agreements with Microsoft to actually pay royality fees for (allegeds) patents in Android. Would that mean, that you could also ask money back from Microsoft if you buy an Android?

  5. How much would the rebate be? by wisnoskij · · Score: 3, Interesting

    What does MS sell their OEM OS for anyway? Probably not that much. No one will likely bother.

    --
    Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
  6. Meh logical and sensible by ianezz · · Score: 4, Informative

    Well, according to the original article on La Repubblica (hint: I'm Italian), the judgement came from the Cassazione, so it is as definitive as it can be in Italy (I know, I know...).

  7. This really makes no sense by sirwired · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why could I not apply this same legal idea to everything else included with the computer? "I already have a perfectly good power supply!" "Let me swap in my old CPU chip!" "Stop including an LCD on my laptop! I'm never going to use it!" "Curse the forced purchase of LED power lights! That's a good three cents I could save!"

    There are more than enough sources from which a computer can be procured that do not have Windows. If the manufacturer or store you want to buy from doesn't have any, don't buy from there!

  8. Re:Apple? by Vip · · Score: 5, Insightful

    > MS has done nothing to prevent a PC from being sold without an OS.

    Are you serious? Either you have forgotten the 90's and early 2000's or are too young to remember. From wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M...

    "In the 1990s, Microsoft adopted exclusionary licensing under which PC manufacturers were required to pay for an MS-DOS license even when the system shipped with an alternative operating system. Critics attest that it also used predatory tactics to price its competitors out of the market and that Microsoft erected technical barriers to make it appear that competing products did not work on its operating system."

    The MS-DOS carried on into Windows. Even if you wanted to run Linux, OS/2, or anything else, you still had to purchase the MS license, or colloquially, the M$ Tax.

    > They certainly make it cheaper for Dell to pre-install Windows on a machine than for the end user to buy their own copy. They may have even said that they will raise the price if they don't make all their machines come with Windows.

    They "may" have? Let's make it clear. They made it so *every* computer Dell sells has Windows on it. If even one went out without Windows, Dell or any other manufacturer was forced to pay a higher cost for Windows and other MS products. Even IBM, who made the competing OS/2.

    Vip