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The Future According To Stanislaw Lem

An anonymous reader writes "The Paris Review has an article about SF author Stanislaw Lem, explaining Lem's outlook on the future and his expectations for technological advancement. Lem tended toward a view that technology would infect and eventually supplant biological evolution. But he also suggested an interesting explanation for why we haven't detected alien civilizations: "Perhaps ... they are so taken up with perfecting their own organisms that they've abandoned space exploration entirely. According to a similar hypothesis, such beings are invisible because technological ease has resulted in a 'Second Stone Age' of 'universal illiteracy and idleness.' When everyone's needs are perfectly met, it 'would be hard, indeed, to find one individual who would choose as his life's work the signaling, on a cosmic scale, of how he was getting along.' Rather than constructing Dyson Spheres, Lem suggests, advanced civilizations are more likely to spend their time getting high.""

19 of 196 comments (clear)

  1. highly probable by jaeztheangel · · Score: 4, Insightful

    our memories and attention spans have gotten noticeably worse over the last century, though our quality of life has increased immeasurably. he may be right. solving our economic needs who wouldn't want to focus on feeling better?

  2. getting high by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The trouble with getting high is that there's always some jerk who ISN'T getting high because they're jacked up on taking advantage of everyone else's idleness to promote their own self-interest. Sorry, but evolution isn't going to let people get away with being sloths.

    1. Re:getting high by gbjbaanb · · Score: 4, Insightful

      your high is different to mine.

      Some people might smoke pot, others get drunk. Some gamble and others fuck as much as they can.

      And some have "making money" as their high, some have "screwing other over in power games" as theirs.

      But there's also going to be someone who likes doing stuff as their personal meaning. Even in a society based on self-interest and personal abuse, there's going to be a few Crazy Eddies.

  3. Eh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The most reasonable explanation why we haven't found alien life is...

    Alien life got a good look at us.

    Crazy? Yep. Greedy? Yep. Still fight over dirt? Yep. Not trusworthy? Yep. Supercrazy religions in charge? Yep.
    Destroying our own environment? Yep. Wipe out any other species for fun, profit, or they're just in the way? Yep.

    Why would any intelligent creature want anything to do with us?

    1. Re:Eh... by Nidi62 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Why would any intelligent creature want anything to do with us?

      because we have Elvis and Beethoven, and they don't.

      I thought the aliens already got Elvis.....

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
  4. Maybe... by denzacar · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Maybe immortality cancels out curiosity.

    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
    1. Re:Maybe... by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I disagree. It isn't worrisome at all.

      I look forward to the day I can break away from daily "work" and just pursue my interests and hobbies.

      And in fact, this is the economy of Start Trek: an economy of plenty, rather than our current economy based on scarcity. People do what they do because they want to, not because they get paid for it.

      I don't think the Star Trek scenario is unreasonable, if we were to find better ways to generate energy. Nobody has to be idle (though they could be if they wanted). That isn't a species-killing idea, it's just another evolutionary step.

    2. Re:Maybe... by denzacar · · Score: 3, Interesting

      How should I know? They are aliens.

      I just gave you a premise. Imagine your own damn scifi alien race. With or without hookers and blackjack.

      --
      Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
    3. Re:Maybe... by dcollins · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In principle, I'm all for this. Practically, however: life always expands to take up all the space/resources available to it. The Star Trek economy needs either infinite resources (impossible) or population controls (distasteful) to be feasible. Otherwise at some point you'll get a virus such as a religious doctrine that says have as many kids as you can and suck up as many public resources as possible, and do nothing else with them, and we'll be right back at the edge of scarcity and collapse.

      "Which is the greater danger - nuclear warfare or the population explosion? The latter absolutely! To bring about nuclear war, someone has to DO something; someone has to press a button. To bring about destruction by overcrowding, mass starvation, anarchy, the destruction of our most cherished values-there is no need to do anything. We need only do nothing except what comes naturally - and breed. And how easy it is to do nothing."
      -- Isaac Asimov

      --
      We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
    4. Re:Maybe... by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 3, Funny

      As one alien species said (about humans):

      "You mean you have to pay to live on the planet you were born on??"

  5. Re:unlikely by gbjbaanb · · Score: 3, Interesting

    not necessarily. That just applies to us, and its a fallacy to assume that others are like us.

    Imagine an alien race so super intelligent that they consider they've already invented everything, they don't actually invent it until they have a need for it, and frankly, talking to the chattering money-boys on a distant planet just hasn't been something they need, strangely enough

  6. Twitter by Livius · · Score: 5, Funny

    So, interstellar Twitter is *not* a sign of an advanced civilization.

    (Though that would have been my guess all along.)

  7. Re:Sauced in the Saucer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's absurd that given what we *know* as FACTS about materials and energy sources, that anyone would think intergalactic (who brought up galaxies anyhow?) travel is even remotely possible.

    There are intelligent Africans who live in mud huts, and there are stupendously stupid North Americans driving tanks.

    So what does technology have to do with intelligence?

  8. Re:So we're doomed to the world of Wall-E? by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Lem was critical of Government, of official bureaucracy - whether public or private.

    He never singled out the US as a specific target, and could be construed as subtly/subversively anti-authoritarian, in ways that were passable by the Communist governments of Poland and USSR.

    The US is now no different than those. We just have Nike Fuel bands, and two cars in front of our debt-bondage. Whoops! I mean home.

    --
    "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
    Never been known to fail..."
  9. High-power industrial civilization may not last. by Animats · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Records of human civilization go back over 3000 years. Industrial civilization goes back less than 200. A good starting point is the opening of the Liverpool and Manchester Railway in 1830, the first non-demo steam passenger railway. There were earlier locomotives, but this is the moment the industrial revolution got out of beta and started changing people's lives.

    Only in the last 80 years or so has human exploitation of natural resources been able to significantly deplete them. Prior to WWII, human efforts just couldn't make a big dent in the planet. Things have picked up since then.

    There are lots of arguments over when we start running out of key resource. But the arguments are over decades, not centuries or millenia. The USGS issues mineral commodity summaries. There are decades of resources left for most minerals, but a lot of things run out within 200 years. Mining lower and lower grade ores requires more and more effort and energy. For many minerals, that's already happened. People once found gold nuggets on the surface of the earth. The deepest gold mine is now 4 miles deep.

    For many minerals, the easy to extract ores were used up long ago. Industrial civilization got going based on copper, lead, iron, and coal found in high concentrations on or near the surface. All those resources were mined first, and are gone. You only get one chance at industrial civilization per planet.

    Civilization can go on, but it will have to be more bio-based than mining-based. Energy isn't the problem; there are renewable sources of energy. Metals can be recycled, but you lose some every round. It's not clear what this planet will look like in a thousand years. It's clear that a lot of things will be scarcer.

    (And no, asteroid mining probably won't help much.)

  10. TFS is utter bullshit by DrJimbo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Lem wrote about all kinds of possible futures. A small percentage do match the description in the summary but the vast majority conflict with it. Most of his work is about reaching out and exploring in various ways. His work is so varied it is difficult to come up with one theme that describes it all. If I were to try to come up with major themes then I would give at least these:

    1. Alien life is so different from our own that despite our best efforts we are unable to communicate with it or understand it.
    2. Mechanical life begets (creates) biological life which begets mechanical life, and so on. The origins are lost in the shrouds of pre-history.
    3. People are mostly idiots and don't realize it. Present company not excepted.
    --
    We don't see the world as it is, we see it as we are.
    -- Anais Nin
  11. Evolution is hard to stop by TheSync · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Evolutionary selection pressures never stop. Even within a dominant species, if there is any level of genetic difference, there will be both genetic drift and evolution. Other species also apply selection pressures (think of evolving viruses, for instance).

  12. Re:So we're doomed to the world of Wall-E? by arcctgx · · Score: 3, Interesting

    > He never singled out the US as a specific target
    Actually, he did once. In one story from "The Star Diaries" the protagonist travels to the cold war era US by mistake, where he witnesses nuclear attack "duck and cover" style drills and general bomb scare. Lem's satire is quite heavy handed, and I believe he was ashamed of writing it. That story is usually omitted in the reeditions of the book.

  13. Re:High-power industrial civilization may not last by dryeo · · Score: 3, Informative

    Coal, oil and similar do basically disappear. If we got blasted back to the pre-industrial revolution, that lack of easily available concentrated energy would make it much harder to industrialize.

    --
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism