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AT&T Proposes Net Neutrality Compromise
An anonymous reader writes: The net neutrality debate has been pretty binary: ISPs want the ability to create so-called "fast lanes," and consumers want all traffic to be treated equally. Now, AT&T is proposing an alternative: fast lanes under consumer control. Their idea would "allow individual consumers to ask that some applications, such as Netflix, receive priority treatment over other services, such as e-mail or online video games. That's different from the FCC's current proposal, which tacitly allows Internet providers to charge content companies for priority access to consumers but doesn't give the consumers a choice in the matter."
AT&T said, "Such an approach would preserve the ability of Internet service providers to engage in individualized negotiations with [content companies] for a host of services, while prohibiting the precise practice that has raised 'fast lane' concerns." It's not perfect, but it's probably the first earnest attempt at a compromise we've seen from either side, and it suggests the discussion can move forward without completely rejecting one group's wishes.
AT&T said, "Such an approach would preserve the ability of Internet service providers to engage in individualized negotiations with [content companies] for a host of services, while prohibiting the precise practice that has raised 'fast lane' concerns." It's not perfect, but it's probably the first earnest attempt at a compromise we've seen from either side, and it suggests the discussion can move forward without completely rejecting one group's wishes.
You mean just like we can do now assuming our ISP treats all traffic equally? Isn't QoS supported by most home type routers, even without having to flash it with dd-wrt or tomato or whatever?
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
Fuck you AT&T.
How is this a compromise? You hire a thousand people to vote the way you like, net neutrality on their terms. again.
No.
Summation 2
Treat a packet as a packet. Don't play games with the traffic.
I did not RTA, but from the summary it sounds as if AT&T's proposal would allow AT&T to instead charge customers extra based on the applications they wish to use. No, thank you. AT&T, you already charge too much for broadband services which are far below the performance of broadband offered in much of the developed world. Charging consumers even more is an insult to the consumer, and an abuse of your government-granted utility monopolies (at least in may areas of the US).
So would AT&T's proposal let you "fast lane" any site? Or just a select group of major sites that AT&T has "approved"?
Oh, I see. So it's not really "I want X to be fast-laned" and then it is. It's "I want X to be fast-laned", therefore AT&T might possible approach X and demand fast lane payments. This way AT&T can pass the blame for the fast lane charges to the customers (who will also pay for those charges via increased fees for those sites) and can still pocket the money. Also, they are guaranteed that Netflix and the other Internet video companies would top the lists. Just the sites that they themselves would have targeted for extortion... I mean, fast lane payments.
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
If the consumer can call for some content to be provided faster, the beginning state has to be that all traffic is slowed down; you can't go faster than "fastest". If all traffic is slowed down, you're already violating net neutrality. In other words, this proposal assumes a state in which net neutrality advocates have already lost and gotten nothing.
hahahahaha
No, what we're seeing is one of two things:
1) They've already figured out how to milk this suggestion for every dime ( and given enough time, they'll figure out how to milk even MORE out of it )
2) They see which way the wind is (hopefully) blowing, and realize a compromise NOW might let them salvage some of the situation.
In either case, telling them to go "pound sand" is still the correct response. AT&T and their ilk have screwed over customers for years. There is no reason to suddenly adopt an attitude of cooperation with them, knowing full fucking well the only reason they're doing so is to find a place to stick the knife.
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
Old plan:
1. Make all internet slow lane.
2. Require content providers to pay for fast lane.
New plan:
1. Make all internet slow lane.
2. Require content providers to pay for fast lane.
3. Require customers to pay in order to access fast lane.
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AT&T is reaching out and offering a nicely wrapped turd to customers because its seen SOPA and PIPA go down in utter flames thanks to internet advocacy. We may not have caught Kony 2012, and ALS certainly wasnt cured with a bucket of ice, but the fact remains that internet users have inundated social media as well as the FCC formal request system with insistant pleas for net neutrality. AT&T is at a weak point, as its general position of ramming controversial and problematic legislation through in order to lube the wheels of its moneytrain has run into a plutocrats biggest problem. Namely, that if regular people are all allowed to vote and voice their opinions individually, your ability to control the outcome in your favour is eliminated. Its why we have the electoral college instead of an FCC-type system that permits individual input.
So stick it to these assclowns. Keep fighting. https://www.fcc.gov/comments
Good people go to bed earlier.
How about the ISP's spend a little money to give Americans a first world infrastructure?
I live in Japan and have 200Mps fiber with no caps for about the price of two pizzas per month. I've had at least 100Mps fiber (or 45Mps ADSL) for over ten years. I had 50 Mps fiber in 2000.
No, I don't live in the middle of a big city. I've lived in the suburbs no different than any suburban area or small city in the US, I've lived in the countryside for a year with no fiber, but had 45Mps about eight years ago.
And don't come back with the "US is too biiiiig!" excuse. You have electricity, water and gas, don't you? How did you get that if the area you live in is "Too biiiig!" The density where I live is no more than a place like Nashville, or Arlington Heights, or Jacksonville, or Albuquerque, or Portland, or Anytown, USA.
How did I get reasonable cost, high-speed fiber? Competition. There are no exclusive franchises or politicians controlling the internet business. Companies invested in infrastructure and competed to win customers with better and faster service with lower pricing. Most areas are now wired for 1Gps, and will be opened when the time comes to fill that bandwidth.
Your politicians and unelected regulatory gangs, er, agencies have hoodwinked you into forgetting that investment into infrastructure is amortized and not a fixed cost forever. Price should be going down and service should be better and faster... and ISP's would still be making mountains of money.
I doubt it's going to change, but I do wish you had options and at least 2nd-world service.
Why would you request a fastlane for Netflix? As you can just buffer the video. If it's not fast enough you need a better internet connection.
Current internet connections are fast enough, future ones may not be.
Video file size will continue to increase. Connection bandwidth will not increase if ISP's can earn money from not increasing it.
For fast paced multiplayer games you would request a fast lane, or any multiplayer game really.
For games you mostly need low latency, not necessarily high bandwidth (which is what the fast lanes are about).
But what connections can be fastlaned? If Netflix or Valve have to negotiate for users to have fastlanes, then it will still cause the same problems.
That basically sums up the entire problem. Content providers will all pay extra for the fast lanes, as a result all content providers' traffic will be equally fast.
Internet will be just as fast as it would be with true net neutrality but ISP are raking in a lot of money for doing effectively nothing.
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
So we let AT&T know certain businesses are important to us and from which they can try to extort money? AT&T: Nice business you have here. According to our records 15000 people requested that we make your traffic to your site faster. We have a few different options that can suit your needs. Random Business: What if we don't pay you extra for something your customers already paid for. AT&T: Well we are disappointed you would think of it like that. We are here to help you and to help you see the light we will continue slowing your traffic until you sign up for our "business protection plan".
This proposal just serves to muddy the clear definition of the role of an ISP, and they can then use that ambiguity to create problems and extract more revenue by charging to fix their problems. It's critical that there be a clear definition of an ISPs role in the network, and the IETF has maintained those clear distinctions for decades now. Let's not let the business deal-makers muck things up!
Enable 3D printed prosthetics!
I would like everything to be on the fast lane all the time... just like you promised when I paid you far too much for my connection ....
Puteulanus fenestra mortis
This. The post was considered so important by the Founders that a national utility - the post office - was enshrined in the constitution. Email is the new post. Instead of letting pirates like AT&T hold our copper and fiber, often largely paid for by public funds, hostage, we should treat the internet as a vital public service and resource like the postal network.
Just the fact that AT&T proposed it is enough to poison the entire proposal. Anything out of AT&T is going to be an attempt to fuck somebody because that's what they truly excel at. After all the taxpayers have done to provide money to build these guys networks and the subsidies they've gotten over the decades it's time for it to end.
Even most of the posts here seem to miss the point that they are trying to keep the argument framed in terms of particular sites like Netflix. I think if they had said something like "allow individual consumers to ask that some applications, such as streaming video , receive priority treatment over other services", then it might be a reasonable attempt at a compromise. As it is, it's a sly bit of marketing to mask the desire to extract money from direct competitors. The last thing they want is the focus to be where it should be--content providers and service providers should not be the same companies.
This assumes that the large telecoms (like AT&T) are going to bargain on an equal basis with their customers.
Anyone with even a shred of sanity will laugh themselves silly over the notion.
The Net Neutrality movement is a collective bargaining tool. Because individuals have exactly ZERO power to influence their telcom provider. And AT&T KNOWS this. Keeping people as individuals in this instance allows them to hide their malfeasance.
Moreover, even if they had any intention of playing the prioritization straight, they're going to try to put a per-MB/GB price structure into place.
This offer should be given the "fuck off" it deserves.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
What this means is that an ISP such as AT&T will build a list of services to throttle (most likely competitors in other areas like voice and video) aka the SLOW LANE. What probably happens next is that AT&T offers pricing to become "FASTLANED" aka makes their ransom demands. If a throttled service pays this fee then they will go on a list for consumers. Consumers will then have the option to pay to enable the "fast lane" for that service.
This creates the illusion of making a service faster... but if they hadn't slowed it down in the first place they couldn't make it any faster. Their switches, their links, the speed of light, none of these things got any faster so by logically flipping a switch. The only way to make things faster by logically switching a switch (assuming no configuration incompetence) is if you weren't slinging packets as fast as you could in the first place.
The basic problem here is that ISPs should either act like common carriers and not discriminate based on content, or be held fully accountable for all content they carry and be subject to lawsuits.
Did you actually think that by setting the QoS on your router you were getting better end to end service??? Unless the QoS is propagated to the ISP's network and all of the devices between you, the ISP, and the destination (such as Netflix) it doesn't change a thing outside of you house. QoS on your home router prioritizes the traffic on *your HOME network*, not the carrier network. More precisely, it prioritizes the home networks contention for the WAN.
If you think that the latency issues are on your home network then why would you care what the carrier does with the traffic once it leaves you house? Seriously, I think you over estimate what QoS on your home router does. And the fact that you got a 5 insightful rating proves others don't understand either.
Oh, I work for a company that builds the transport equipment for ISPs and carriers and I can assure you that your home router does not negotiate for network bandwidth.
--- Tolerance is the axiomatic "virtue" of those without convictions ---
"AT&T said, "Such an approach would preserve the ability of Internet service providers to engage in individualized negotiations with [content companies] for a host of services, while prohibiting the precise practice that has raised 'fast lane' concerns." It's not perfect, but it's probably the first earnest attempt at a compromise we've seen from either side, and it suggests the discussion can move forward without completely rejecting one group's wishes."
Nice try.
First, the ability to "enter into individual negotiations" for your IP packages to be treated one way (slow) or another way (fast) is ENORMOUSLY deceptive language for killing net neutrality.
To deconstruct this twaddle , the word "ability" is used so that rejecting this "offer" (snort) makes it seem like you';re turning down an ability in favor of what? a disability? Being forced to "negotiate" for your packet's speed is not an "ability" . It's the threat that, unless you pay or if you oppose us politically, we'll kneecap your packets.
Secondly, it is NOTHING but fast lane / slow lane practices repackaged into doublespeak. What are the
"individualized" (another gratuitously positive-sounding word) "negotiations" (if you call being strong armed by non- value producing, rent seeking monopolists "negotiations" ) except demands for payment for delivery of your packets at prices other than the price "negotiated" for the same delivery of other companies and individuals packets?
You know what this piece of corporate press release dressed up as a Slashdot article REALLY says? We're winning, and not by some small measure either. ATT is looking over the battle field and they see they're being completely routed. The writing is on the wall for them nad they're desperately trying to "negotiate" and "compromise" their way to a victory over a free as in freedom internet, because they're not going to carry the day using the normal mechanism of Congressional campaign bribes , er I mean support, and astroturfed "citizens movements"
Your letters to your Congressional representatives are totally and completely one sided, as was the public response to the FCC. Congress has NO WAY to give them what they want without shredding whatever credibility that institution has left as the People's House. The cost of defying the repeatedly expressed will of the American people on this issue would not just be toxic for generations to any party who gives in, it would also threaten the legitimacy of the institution itself. How much more can the American people take? No one wants to find out.
Takeaway from this piece of corporate PR trash?
KEEP WRITING CONGRESS. IT"S WORKING.
So the fast lane slow lane has been broken out into "individual
This is a pretty transparent proposal to immediately cap speeds, then approach platforms for extortion money based on user demand.
In short, it's exactly the same thing. The words have changed, but the idea about what to do with the cables is the same.
STOP . AMERICA . NOW