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Why You Can't Manufacture Like Apple
HughPickens.com writes Medium reports that although many startups want to design something that mimics the fit and finish of an Apple product, it's a good way to go out of business. "What happened when Apple wanted to CNC machine a million MacBook bodies a year? They bought 10k CNC machines to do it. How about when they wanted to laser drill holes in MacBook Pros for the sleep light but only one company made a machine that could drill those 20 m holes in aluminum? It bought the company that made the machines and took all the inventory. And that time when they needed batteries to fit into a tiny machined housing but no manufacturer was willing to make batteries so thin? Apple made their own battery cells. From scratch." Other things that Apple often does that can cause problems for a startup include white plastic (which is the most difficult color to mold), CNC machining at scale (too expensive), Laser drilled holes (far more difficult than it may seem), molded plastic packaging (recycled cardboard is your friend), and 4-color, double-walled, matte boxes + HD foam inserts (It's not unusual for them to cost upwards of $12/unit at scale. And then they get thrown away.). "If you see a feature on an Apple device you want to copy, try to find it on another company's product. If you do, it's probably okay to design into your product. Otherwise, lower your expectations. I assure you it'll be better for your startup."
Simply, you can't manufacture like Apple, because if you manage too, you'll be just as expensive and the vast majority will want the name brand anyway. It's a me, too, that doesn't work.
But they had to buy 10k CNC machines to build 1M bodies? Doesn't sound right. Only 100 per machine.
it appears to be a very predatory way of doing business on my eyes.
I remember an article I read on the late 80's or early 90's about how some small companies of that era feared growing too fast and ended up catching the attention of Microsoft, that at that time was buying everything and everybody (prices are pretty lower at that times). Building something cool that Microsoft would need was the fastest way of going out ot business.
Lisias@Earth.SolarSystem.OrionArm.MilkyWay.Local.Virgo.Universe.org
One of my many duties at work is very basic supply-side logistics for a much simpler form of manufacturing.
If your organization needs to be told these things then you are already completely screwed.
Yes, yes, let us get to the Apple bashing orgasm... We must all be sheep. Because some people are clueless as to why anyone would want a well made, easy to use product, and therefore must assume we're all mindless and under the spell of dead Steve Jobs. I started with a couple of Android smartphones. I got really upset by them being abandoned by the manufacturer while they were less than a year old. I disliked their plasticky build. I wasn't completely thrilled by the somewhat balky operation. When I could finally afford an iPhone, I looked around at current Androids first and ended up buying an iPhone 4s. I really liked it a lot. Not saying it was perfect but a couple of years later I saved up and got the iPhone 5s. Here's a bulletin for the lot of you. I am a computer tech. I repair tech all day long. I know one or two things about technology in general. I made an informed choice and was so satisfied with that choice that I made the same choice when it came time to upgrade. Just because YOU don't get my choice does not make me or a lot of other people sheep!
What I have sometimes pondered is why Google has not become its own hard disk drive manufacturer. Would it be feasible? I believe they continuously chuck in crazy amounts of storage into their data centers and make massive HDD orders.
Because stamping out 100 million copies of a single model (e.g., iphone) is a LOT more cost effective than trying to tool up to stamp out 10 million copies each of 10 different models. Which means that they can increase their profit margin or increase feature set at the same price as they see fit.
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
Next up, Apple has more money to throw around than a Startup! Full Story @ 11!
It's cute to see how much money they blow on their designs, but really, is this news, or stuff that matters?
Nice way to interpret his intent into something base can prop your ad hominem upon.
There's nothing wrong with establishing an argument that claims you work in a particular field and therefore are accustomed to making educated choices about stuff related to that field.
If someone calls themselves a chef or a foodie, it may not make them right when they say how long you should boil pasta, but it means their opinion about it IS based on care, thought, and knowledge about the subject at hand. If someone random says "boil spaghetti for 20 minutes" then you may be more apt to consider their opinion as out of hand than someone who presents "credentials".
If slashdot wasn't such a fucking non-stop pissing-contest people might not feel the need to present "papers please" when offering their thoughtful opinions about stuff.
Asking people to think is like asking them to buy you a new car
My current CEO says form and style are essential in our next product. The board and him agree that design is the key to success. He says he was an Apple like feel that oozes quality. He wants to be like Steve Jobs.
Then he says we're going to do that by hiring an undergrad design major part time from a local college once we finish our mechanical and board designs. He will polish it up and make it great.
He said all this within 2 mins. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry. The project manager then offers up design tips from his wife...
Also, I'm told we need to target Logitech's price point...
People completely underestimate what it takes to make an Apple-like product. This is especially true for engineers (of which I am one) who tend think to since it's not technically hard to do, it must mean that designers don't bring much to the table. "I can bevel that edge", "That rounded corner isn't hard to do", etc etc. We also tend to think that function is most important and that form is an afterthought... even though we don't actually say that.
Is it possible that Apple does things like this not so much to be unique and high-end, but to drive would-be competitors into bankruptcy?
That can only work if customers actually want the features that competitors can't afford to offer. Based on sales figures, the evidence seems to be that they do.
I'm typing this on an Apple laptop. A large part of the reason that I bought it was because the hardware is exceptionally beautiful. I compared it with offerings from people like Samsung, Dell, Lenovo, Acer, Asus and Toshiba, and the difference in the quality of the design detail was extraordinary. To people like me, these details matter. I wanted to run Linux on the machine, so I'm no fanbois, btw.
We're all different. For people like me (who are fortunate enough to have sufficient cash to pay for the privilege), design is as important as function. Good design sells stuff.
The claim wasn't that there was only one CNC company or only one laser drilling company. It's that there was only one at the time that could meet their specs and they could afford to just buy those companies, which you with your startup can't do. So don't expect to compete with Apple on the manufacturing quality because they can afford the very best and in many cases you can't.
That's one heck of a sleep light.
In completely unrelated news, Slashdot's support of non-ASCII characters is refreshingly anachronistic.
If the startup made the same huge profit margins that Apple does, I don't see why doing any of these things would be a problem.
And if someone dropped billions of dollars in my hands I could do some pretty cool stuff too. What exactly is your point since that is a purely hypothetical conjecture? Startups don't have the kind of money that Apple does which is exactly the point.
NO startup can possibly match Apple's manufacturing costs. Very few companies of any size are able to match Apple when it comes to manufacturing costs on the products they make because Apple can buy stuff at such enormous scales. Read up on economies of scale. Apple only produces a small number of products so even companies like Samsung are unlikely to be able to match their costs because they spread out their purchases among more products. Apple is able to economically do things that set their products apart that at smaller scales would be economically impractical. This makes the gap even harder to close since it gives their products features that actually differentiate them from the competition in ways other than price.
Indeed. It would be even worse if they did not have those jobs, but the bad working conditions and low pay are still a problem. I wonder if some kind of fair trade system could be developed for electronics, just like we have for food products?
see, I dont care for apple, No need to get into my reasons im sure other posters here have already listed them. HOWEVER I also understand that different people have different wants and needs in their devices. the iphone is better for some people, and the android is better for others. Depending on ones needs depends on what I recomend to people. I will bust my friends balls, but in the end whatever makes people happy is what they should get
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
Whilst the iphone is pretty, what apple actually sells is a device you don't have to babysit, that does what it says on the box in a manner that is both attractive and pleasant to use.
The reason many people, myself included by apple gear is because I have spent the past 20 years babysitting computer shit because it half does what it says, needs care to use to ensure it doesn't get malware, etc. I'm fucking over it. I don't care about the theoretical reduced flexibility if the device does what I actually want it to do, and doesn't need babysitting.
Being pretty is a bonus, not the primary motivator.
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
Reading this, you would think that Apple is the only large company making tech.
This is what all large companies do. For instance, Windows was built on hundreds of companies that Microsoft went out and bought because they needed the tech. Samsung builds shit from scratch all the time, and probably has more CNC machines at its disposal than Apple.
This is nothing more than an Apple puff piece. To remove the marketing content, one would have to replace Apple with "large corporation", then the article's title would just be "No, You Can't Manufacture Like a Large Corporation". Then you can replace the author's name with "Duh".
Revolution is the opium of the intellectuals.
And don't forget that those armies of near-slaves also work for all tech companies, not just Apple.
Get free satoshi (Bitcoin) and Dogecoins
So, to recap, Apple wants a nicer looking sleep light, and as a result hip replacements just got a lot more expensive.
CNC machines aren't made by only one company
That doesn't mean all CNC machines are equal or that they can all meet the same specifications, run rates or handle the same products.
laser drilling isn't really rocket science
I think you have no idea what you are talking about. Drilling one hole with a laser isn't too hard. Drilling millions of holes with tight tolerances with near perfect repeatability IS as difficult as "rocket science". (as if that is some sort of valid comparison...) That's exactly what make manufacturing hard.
packaging have been done better etc.
Really? Name me one consumer electronics manufacturer that provides better packaging than Apple does.
Those many different models are often just variations.
That's true but every different option adds cost and complexity to the supply chain. The fewer versions of a product you make the lower your costs will be. Every product variation has extra administrative overhead cost, engineering cost, manufacturing cost, freight cost, inventory cost, etc. Whenever you buy from a company offering lots of options you are paying extra for them even if you don't actually take advantage of them because some of the costs are shared.
Sometimes there are good reasons to offer products with extra options or multiple products but a lot of companies don't really think it through. My company produces a wire harness that goes into some SUVs. We produce two versions of this product which are identical except for a grommet. There was no technical requirement for the grommets to be different but two engineers in different wings of the company couldn't be bothered to talk with each other and so we now have to maintain two SKU numbers, two order books, two bills, get worse pricing on grommets because the volume on each is lower, pay more in freight, have to stock more inventory etc.
Some of that info seems bogus. 10,000 CNC mills? Unlikely. 10,000 CNC machines of all types across all of Apple manufacturing, maybe.
I was skeptical too, but then I looked up the numbers and turns out 10,000 is actually an underestimation:
Foxconn, the Apple supplier that doubled factory pay after a spate of worker suicides, buys 800 programmable Robodrills from Fanuc every month - for about $62,000 each - to make the stainless steel band that wraps around the iPhone.
The Fanuc Robodrill is the world's common CNC machine measured by installation numbers and by total value thanks to Apple.
What's funny is that I was just starting to be introduced to Apple products right around the time when Jobs was falling ill and loosening his grip on the company. At that point, Apple was making one product that caught my eye: the 17" MBP. Jobs loosened his grip and marketing cut the product I was interested in. Cook isn't doing well to keep me around, either.
Typed on my 17" MBP using an iPad Air as a secondary display.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
Anonymous coward, you have never in your life knowingly talked to a gay person. I think you have three problems in your life: No man wants you, no woman wants you, and your parents are ashamed of you.
Well phrased.
Priest: "Universe from nothing, no laws of physics, sped up time"+ huge discrepancies. Creationism? No. Big Bang Theory
Those white plastic laptops of Apples got quite a few calls into their support center.
#1: yellowing and cracking of plastic.
#2: Hard drive failure
#3: Battery failure
I think with the 3 items combined, the failure rate must have been in the high %30 mark.
Anyone that owned one shoudl be able to verify that.
Hmm, I was service manager at an Apple authorized computer store. Fixed hundreds of white plastic MacBooks. I would think that, given a long enough timespan, you could get to 30% failure on those three items, collectively. But certainly not within warranty, and generally not due to manufacturing defects.
I never saw any yellowing that wasn't caused by abuse. And I mean cigarette burns, being left on top of a radiator, etc. Cracks on the keyboard bezel, sure. That WAS a design flaw. Cosmetic only, BTW - didn't affect function. Apple fixed them all, in or out of warranty.
Hard drives fail. Apple doesn't make them. Look up the manufacturers specs for G's of impact in operation, and compare that to the way MacBooks are used. Mostly by students... We had one guy who was using his laptop on the seat of a moving, off-road truck. Apple replaced that hard drive, four times that I know of, in and out of warranty - at no charge. Eventually he got a free upgrade to an Air, with SSD. Solved.
Battery failure. Well, batteries are expendable items. I would say 95% of the batteries replaced were over their rated lifetime cycles; usually WAY over. The few that weren't, were also replaced free, in or out of warranty.
We are a small family farm.
We're building our own USDA/State inspected meat processing facility - almost done.
I designed the facility myself from scratch.
We have done all the construction of our building.
We will do all the work in the facility ourselves.
We built much of the equipment for our butcher shop, mostly out of stainless steel.
We built many of the tools to build the above equipment.
We invented techniques, tools and processes to do what we need to do.
More people need to innovate.
It is quite doable.
My favorite is still the articles that talked about the suicides at Foxconn facilities making XBoxes for Microsoft, yet included pictures of Apple products for the story.
Last I checked blackberries don't allow tethering via bluetooth or wifi, and while they do email real well, they didn't do much else all that well. I'm not sure it makes one a "trend-jumper" to desire new features that are useful. Blackberries didn't evolve, and they died, a lesson Apple had best pay attention to.
I couldn't care less what the apple product LOOKS like, I care what it does and how much trouble I'm likely to have with it. I have been a rabid Apple hater my entire life, until perhaps the past 6 years. Right now they are the best products out there. While I'd rather have a high quality hardware device with higher end processing/graphics capabilities that also has high design and mfg quality and not be paying for bullshit like laser etched holes and other ID related nonsense, they are all low quality shit, and having bought several I refuse to do it again. I would rather have reduced specs and a higher price than buy something cheap, fast and a trash can ornament. You have Apple, or you have cheap chinese shitshop, even if it has a Dell/HP logo. Knowing what I know about computer design, something I did for a living for 15 years, I choose Apple, for now. If HP or Dell or company Q wants to step up their game and start making a computer that is not utter shit, the decision may change in the future.
For the same reason I buy Apple, I buy Honda. I've owned a lot of Fords, they were shit, I won't buy another Ford. My Honda's have been going strong for 10 years, and fuck it, they cost 15-20% more up front but the TCO is far less. If Honda burns me I will start looking again, but as long as they make good stuff they have my loyalty.
We're all different. For people like me (who are fortunate enough to have sufficient cash to pay for the privilege), design is as important as function. Good design sells stuff.
For 'some people' there's a phrase to describe what you're talking about, by the way: 'Conspicuous consumption', or more rudely put, 'F.U. money'. :-)
Conspicuous consumption? 99% of the time I use my laptop at home. It's only conspicuous to me. Maybe you define yourself in terms of how others view you; I don't.
what the fuck are you smoking? iTunes has got to be by far, the worst music manager hands down I've ever used.
.isamusicplayer in the directory, just in case you know, it doesn't detect your MP3 player correctly, or your syncing to an SD card to put in said player.
>If you check the little box that says "let iTunes manage my music library" it does. It makes folders based upon ID3 tags and files that shit away proper. Now if you're one of those tards who thinks you can manage your library better than iTunes, maybe it will piss you off.
it does that now? winamp did that for years. In fact winamp could scan multiple directories and automaticly import music, videos and all media automaticly, with an array of options for guessing metadata if none was present.
Also, banshee, Rythmbox, and just about every other program does this too, and they all do if far far far better. ALL of these programs automaticly add and delete new music put in your Music folder, they can all sort your mp3s by filename, and you can turn that feature off. Banshee also has bulk ID3 editing modes, and also has a nice de-duplication feature to look through your library to help you find duplicate files to save disk space. Last time I used iTunes you had to import new music manually.
They all (banshee, winamp, rythmbox), sync with your iPod, android phones, MTP entabled music player, and the linux ones Banshee and Rythmbox follow the FreeDesktop.org format of being able to interpret any directory as a music player if you put a blank file named
To some degree, I think it's an implied response to the latent, often heard criticism that people who use Apple are a bunch of idiots who don't know anything about computers. Especially in the context of responding to someone calling Apple fans "sheep", which implies that they're stupid followers and that their opinions are thoughtless and uninformed.
I've found that if you say anything positive about Apple in a public forum like Slashdot, there's a decent chance you'll get a response that implies that you don't understand computers very well. As a result, I'll admit that I sometimes feel the need to throw out something that explains that, yes, I'm very familiar with other systems and can provide praise and criticism of all of them.
+1 Insightful. People buy things that work for them. There may be a limitation that makes a product bad for *you* but that doesn't mean it's bad for everyone. This applies to all products. Yes, you try to purchase things that are made by "good" companies, but at the end of the day few people make their buying decisions on anything other than whether it fulfills their needs.
Wow, is that ever a crock. So, a person calling themselves a foodie means they've have exercised "care, thought and knowledge"? If I call myself a world champion surfer, does that mean I've ever waxed a board? Appeals to authority are one of the most dishonest forms of fallacy:
http://www.nizkor.org/features...
But maybe you're just not familiar with logical fallacies. Well, that's something about which I know a thing or two to snatch a phrase from esteemed computer tech Marlin Schwanke. And you will not find an "ad hominem" anywhere in my post. If you think you also know a thing or two about fallacies, I invite you to point mine out. The purpose of my post was to point out the fallacy via sarcasm. There was no ad hominem. I didn't say Marlin Schwanke was stupid, or that all computer techs are stupid or that he's somehow a bad person or a Republican. I just pointed out the absurdity of claiming this authority as if it meant something.
I'll just bet you're a computer tech, too. And that, my friend, you can take as an ad hominem.
You are welcome on my lawn.
well shit, hating a group of people not doing anything wrong is not acceptable. I'm not pretending to speak for some majority, just common decency.
So why do you hate people for voicing their opinion on what is or is not common decency?
Or, I'm going to start peddling these "legalize rape, murder, and heroin" pamplets to kids, and how dare you speak to me about moral outrage!!!
I use an iPhone 4 for work. The screen is too small, so I'm happy the iPhone 6 models have bigger screens. But my main phone is a Nexus 5. I always have the latest version of Android. But overall, Android let's me access files anywhere and use them however I need to use them My Apple phone experience is ruined by the iTunes ball and chain and not being able to use my files as and when I need to.
Only boring people are ever bored.
Because that wasn't the point. Are you actually annoyed by these labor practices - in which case you either live in a house free of electronics or ones of Walkman vintage - or are you just looking at an excuse to drink some Hatorade at one company? So, once again:
1) Which of your devices is not made by Foxconn or one of their competitors using the same labor practices?
2) Which tech companies have gone beyond Apple's token efforts at improving said practices?