Slashdot Mirror
Ask Slashdot: Finding a Job After Completing Computer Science Ph.D?
An anonymous reader writes I recently completed my PhD in computer science and hit the job market. I did not think I would have difficulty finding a job esp. with a PhD in computer science but I have had no luck so far in the four months I have been looking. Online resume submittals get no response and there is no way to contact anybody. When I do manage to get a technical interview, it is either 'not a good match' after I do the interviews or get rejected after an overly technical question like listing all the container classes in STL from the top of my head. I had worked as a C++ software developer before my PhD but in the past 6 years, software development landscape has changed quite a bit. What am I doing wrong? Has software development changed so much in the last 6 years I was in school or is my job hunting strategy completely wrong? (The PhD was on a very technical topic that has very little practical application and so working on it does not seem to count as experience.)
Many companies are going to think you won't stay or will want too much money. You can hire a PhD from India for $1500 a month.
I'm just curious on your initial motivation for a PhD? Maybe research/academic is an option?
>technical question like listing all the container classes in STL from the top of my head
Do experienced devs even know this? I've programmed in several languages and I could never give a list of functions on demand. That's what reference material is for.
You honestly dodged a bullet with that one; any company that asks for such a thing has a damaged tech culture.
Since you didn't mention these two things, they are my suggestion. First pay a professional company to re-write your resume, I did this 3 years ago and it was night and day difference. I think I spent about $800, they also wrote a linkedin profile for me to paste there. Next research and find a good recruiting company and let them do some of the searching for you. Just know that these days the best recruiters don't charge you, they make their money from the company that hires you.
-- Slashdot, making the Left look conservative since 1997.
Look, the phd is not going to open very many doors in this industry. This is one of the most severe industries for devaluing advanced degrees and instead almost all value is placed on demonstrable experience.
So basically, as a PhD, you're just (in their eyes) an inexperienced programmer who has unrealistic salary fantasies.
The PhD may help you in academic circles, but in the IT industry, it just represents prime years spent on something that brings no value to the company wanting to hire you.
I know it's sad, but hide your PhD. Most employers are scared of PhD's for multiple reasons: (1) they don't want to pay them what their credentials demand , (2) many hiring bosses are intimidated or feel threatened to have an underling with more education than they do, and (3) they are probably hesitant to invest in someone who is so highly credentialed for fear of losing them when a sweet offer comes around. Sad, I know. But I'd go ahead and hide the PhD. (Disclaimer: I'm working on mine now)
Surely your advisor has links to industry? Where does the funding come from? Industrial consortia? Federal sources (NSF / DOE / etc). Can you look at doing a postdoc at a National Lab so you can make some contacts? If you don't, ask your advisor for help. It is the least he or she can do for you.
I don't think resume sites are good places for a newly minted PhD to look for work. You surely did some networking while you were a student. Did you present your research at some conferences? Those are the people you should be talking to about work, not filling out on-line applications. At the PhD level you find work based on a personal network, not web-based applications (although you will need to fill those out for compliance).
It's not fair, but it's probably better to just list your master's for now.
Right now they figure you won't be happy with a junior position, but you don't have the experience from them to trust you with something more senior. Once you've got a bit of experience put the PhD back on. It will help you land more senior jobs later.
It is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail. - Abraham Maslow
The question is, why are you looking for a common coding job? You need to spend a bit of money with one of the exclusive headhunters, who can find you positions with trading companies, NSA (don't snicker), and other places where an average coder could never do.
The only thing worse than a Democrat is a Republican.
I don't think it's a matter of intimidation. Quite the opposite. To some folks, "PhD in CompSci" means, "I didn't have the chops to get a programming job while getting my undergraduate degree so I just stayed in school." Yeah, harsh, but that's the feeling out there. Most really good programmers don't bother with higher degrees because they're employable from the get-go.
Have you applied to Google?
...richie - It is a good day to code.
You assert without proof that your research has no practical application. Were your researching how to implement LOGO in VAX assembly language or something?
More to the point, if your research was on the cutting edge of Computer Science I assure you it has practical applications. Use some of the research skills that you gained obtaining your PhD and put them to use identifying companies that have business or research interests in line with your own. Then, using LinkedIn or conference proceedings, identify researchers and engineers with interests similar to your own and contact them. Ask to set up informational interviews. See if they "know anyone" looking for new researchers. Build a network tirelessly until you have a job.
You have a PhD. You're not a programmer anymore. Accept it and don't look for programming jobs. Most organizations that are pushing the state-of-the-art have need for PhD-level people. Find them and find your niche.
Also, hide the PhD.
This is good advice. My experience is that PhDs are negatively correlated with "getting stuff done". My company has hired people in spite of their PhDs, but the PhD is a definite negative. I don't think that PhDs cause people to become ditherers and procrastinators, but rather that graduate schools tend to attract those kind of people. The submitter is a good example. You don't wait till you graduate to start looking for a job. You start when you are a freshman, by applying for internships, and getting work experience outside academia. More than half our new hires are ex-interns. We know what they can do, and they are already familiar and comfortable with our company culture.
Any place that shuns someone with a masters degree is pretty sucky, I feel sorry for you. There are many companies that value people with education. Do you really think at the CTO and architect level that they prefer BA to BS, and BS to MS, and MS to PhD? Granted, fresh graduates don't get those jobs but people do work up to them. Not everyone is in the trenches forever doing coding that other people tell them to do, eventually there's someone in the company that has to actually know something, if the company is worth anything.
-1 disagree. the best thing you have going for you right now is your phd. you committed to being a world expert in one particular realm of knowledge. I think a really fruitful path would be to look deeply into what doors that expertise opens for you. Better to do this than to walk away from the expertise and end up with the rest of the people here on slashdot.
second, follow your peers. where are all the other phds going? and what makes them qualified to go there?
I'm not surprised you're having poor luck in the general job market. the middle managers who are doing hiring will resent you for your intellect and success. this is why you get thrown the stupid questions like "name all the words in the dictionary from your head". they are tearing you down because they feel bad about where they are in their lives.
This is coming from someone who has been in IT for 20 years, very successfully, and has never taken any computer courses...
Get a freaking skill!!! The OP admits that the subject of the PhD is not applicable to really anything in the world. You might as well have spent 6 years of your life under a rock, because you are now the utmost expert at that tiny, inapplicable area.
Want cash and job security up the wahoo? Go pick up a CCNA book, and $500 of used Cisco gear on eBay. Get CCNA and a network admin job at a small, growing company who can't afford to pay you more than $50,000. Proceed to get your CCNP. Invest another $10,000 and two years and get CCIE. Go to "whatever the hell company you want" and make $120k+ and never worry about unemployment again.
+1. The key to long term success is being hardnosed about failures/setbacks/sub-optimal jobs, having long term focus, and putting yourself in a position where you can demonstrate your value and skills. But most of all, it is being pragmatic in the short term while being optimistic in the long term.
Having long term focus means picturing yourself on what you would consider a fulfilling job, and how exactly you see yourself and your job. Say, in 10 years. By focus, I mean take up a low paying job if necessary, as long as it is aligned to your long term goals. Good Example: Joining a company with a core focus on quality programming, but as a junior developer instead of a senior developer or lead or whatever else you might be expecting.
Bad Example: Joining the IT department (cost center) of say, a big manufacturing company. Might pay well in the short term, but will eventually be a dead-end for you.
Being hard-nosed means continue trying. Obviously, fine tuning or tweaking your strategy and where/how you are applying. By far, the easiest way to get into a company is through referrals. So can any of your buddies help you out? They get to make decent money through referral bonuses too. Also, is your location preference dragging you down? Again, in a long enough time-frame, say, 15 years from now, you will barely remember the extra 3 months (or 6 months or whatever) you put in during your initial struggling phase. So why bother getting demoralized by it now?
Lastly, don't get desperate to find a job. Your job and your company is as good as your boss. Use the interview process to figure out how much you like your future boss. If you boss isn't even interviewing you (rare, but happens), you probably don't want to work in that company to begin with.
And please remember - an extra 3-6 months of job hunting is way way better than making a mistake. Typically, from my experience, people take 2-3 years on average to fix a mistake (bad job, bad boss, bad company, bad growth opportunities).
well we don't know his field of expertise, so it's hard to judge. he knows best what he's useful for. have you heard the expression "face made for radio"?