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Ask Slashdot: Finding a Job After Completing Computer Science Ph.D?
An anonymous reader writes I recently completed my PhD in computer science and hit the job market. I did not think I would have difficulty finding a job esp. with a PhD in computer science but I have had no luck so far in the four months I have been looking. Online resume submittals get no response and there is no way to contact anybody. When I do manage to get a technical interview, it is either 'not a good match' after I do the interviews or get rejected after an overly technical question like listing all the container classes in STL from the top of my head. I had worked as a C++ software developer before my PhD but in the past 6 years, software development landscape has changed quite a bit. What am I doing wrong? Has software development changed so much in the last 6 years I was in school or is my job hunting strategy completely wrong? (The PhD was on a very technical topic that has very little practical application and so working on it does not seem to count as experience.)
I'm in a totally different field, but I just finished a PhD, and I'm currently in a two-year postdoc.
Why did you get a PhD? You said you already worked as a software developer before, so it's not like you went straight through school because you didn't know what else to do. You also said your thesis was on a technical topic without practical application, so it doesn't sound like you were aiming for a non-academic job.
What kind of job did you want when you started? An academic job, then changed your mind? If so, you will have to be very intentional about selling yourself to employers. Frame the PhD as giving you experience in how to do research. It's going to be the rare employer who actually cares about what you did specifically.
It sounds like you are just firing off online job applications. Have you networked? Does anyone from your department know folks in industry? Did you apply for postdoctoral positions, research fellowships, etc.? If you are just looking at standard development positions, you are probably going to be rejected as being overqualified.
"Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
Who you know and how you present yourself often counts more than just pure technical skill or degrees. You need a basic degree to get in the door most places, but BS, charm and ability to speak to others in a cohesive manner, along with general personal hygiene (amazing this still gets overlooked by some folks in tech????) will get you a long way.
Personally, I've never been all THAT good at any job in the IT field I've ever done, but I am able to present myself and stand up to at least a small audience and talk when required to.
Doing that, networking with folks, keeping in touch as they move to new jobs, etc....always is the fast track to get a job.
With you and school...start reaching back to your classmates and instructors and see who they know they can put you in contact with.
99% of the time, it is who you know, not so much what you know (unless it is brain surgery).
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
I was once was asked a similar kind of question about a library, and told them "I tend not to index them that way in my head. How about asking me what class or function I'd use to perform a particular task? That's how my head stores things."
They seemed to be satisfied with that response and proceeded to ask me "how to" code questions, which I readily answered.
Table-ized A.I.
Also, hide the PhD.
As weird as it may sound, this may help. You write yourself:
get rejected after an overly technical question
Advertising a PhD may come across as advertising that you think you're good. You may not mean it that way, but it will most certainly be received like that. I've performed many technical interviews and when I prepare myself for a candidate, I go over their resume (their ad). If the candidate advertises knowledge of a specific topic, he or she better know it.
The rejections you got may not have been because you didn't know a specific answer to a very technical question. Nobody knows everything. You may have been rejected because of the answer that you gave, and let me explain.
When I interview, I will make sure there is one topic with a couple of questions that I don't expect you to know from the top of your head. I will get online and get the answers if needed. I will ask the question (if we get to it) and see the response. If you get the answer right: well done, you will have my vote. If you don't then this is where the psychology comes in. I'll be looking for you to be honest. Don't make up answers, don't come up with a bullshit reply. If I get bullshit, no matter how good you were, you will fail the interview. If you bullshit me, you'll bullshit a customer, manager or anyone else when you're in the hot seat.
Don't underestimate the importance of attitude and honesty in an interview.
I'm not a complete idiot... Some parts are missing.
How do you address the "gaps in employment" problem that presents?
I've conducted a lot of interviews (in an academic setting in the humanities), and I can say that it's risky guessing what exactly the interviewer is trying to accomplish with a question. Sometimes a question is asked neither to see if someone knows the answer to the question nor to see the content of the interviewee's answer, but to see how the person handles being asked such a question. I could see someone deliberately asking a question that he know the candidate not to know the answer to just for such a purpose, though personally I would avoid doing it as it's neither nice nor useful to stress out the interviewee even more (but I might do it in a mock interview preparing someone for a real interview).
So the interviewer might be interested to see if the interviewee honestly, humbly and politely says: "Would you like me to tell you the container classes I use the most? The others I have to look up when I need them", or if the person pretends to know the answer, or rudely bristles, or tries to weasel out of the question by changing the topic (of course it might be a bonus if the interviewee actually has a great memory and knows all the container classes; but then another question might need to be asked to gauge character).
I started to hate ________, and I didn't want to. I did __________ (unrelated thing) for a few years to recharge. I miss it, and have been working to catch up on the last six years.
That is my exact story. I've been doing IT for 30+ years, and there is a six year (yup) period when I sold cars. People SHOULD take time off, or risk burning out. I'd rather have someone who took time off, than someone that is on the verge of burning out.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
This is coming from someone who has been in IT for 20 years, very successfully, and has never taken any computer courses...
Get a freaking skill!!! The OP admits that the subject of the PhD is not applicable to really anything in the world. You might as well have spent 6 years of your life under a rock, because you are now the utmost expert at that tiny, inapplicable area.
Want cash and job security up the wahoo? Go pick up a CCNA book, and $500 of used Cisco gear on eBay. Get CCNA and a network admin job at a small, growing company who can't afford to pay you more than $50,000. Proceed to get your CCNP. Invest another $10,000 and two years and get CCIE. Go to "whatever the hell company you want" and make $120k+ and never worry about unemployment again.
A year spent in artificial intelligence is enough to make one believe in God.
What sabri says is so true about the way you answer questions. I have recently been involved in trying to hire a controls engineer and one of the more important things I do is look for someone to say I don't know. I introduce myself at the start of a phone interview and let people know I am a controls engineer and I work on our systems, i.e. I am a technical person, not an HR person who has a list of questions.
Then the interview starts. Every few questions, I hit the candidate with a very technical question. I have a list of about 40 questions that I doubt tere are many people who would know all of the answers off the top of their head. Usually something very specific to our system. I expect the person to not be able to answer the question unless they have very strong experience with the same kind of system as we have. The answer I am looking for is something like:
I haven't worked on that, but I am confident that I could learn how that works.
or
It has been a long time since working on that. I remember this *insert simple, short explanation*, but know that if I looked it up in this reference text or googled it, it would come back to me.
That would usually lead to a follow up question about something that they learned about to reinforce that they feel they could learn it.
I had several candidates attempt to make up an answer and snow me. A few follow up questions and they usually figure out I know about it and they can't snow me. Usually it is too late though. I will give them a couple of chances with very difficult questions like this, but if they don't figure it out quickly and figure out the be honest piece, no chance I want to hire them.
If they have an advanced degree and apply for the jobs I am looking to fill, they don't even get interviewed because I know we won't be able to meet their salary and/or they will look to leave too quickly and I am looking for longer term candidates. I don't want to hire and train every 2-3 years.