Mangalyaan Successfully Put Into Mars Orbit

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Mangalyaan Successfully Put Into Mars Orbit

Posted by Soulskill on Tuesday September 23, 2014 @05:00PM from the congratulations-to-all-involved dept.

knwny writes: India's Mars satellite Mangalyaan was successfully placed into orbit around Mars early on Wednesday following a 10-month journey from Earth. India thus joins the U.S., the European Space Agency and the former Soviet Union in having successfully completed a Mars mission. It is, however, the only one to have done so on the first attempt. Headed by the Indian space agency ISRO, Mangalyaan was made in 15 months at a cost of just around 74 million USD — the cheapest inter-planetary mission ever to be undertaken.

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Standing on the Shoulders of Giants by Great+Big+Bird · 2014-09-23 17:07 · Score: 4, Insightful

Could it be they succeeded in part because much of the previous experience? Either way, great job doing it on their first attempt and cheapest.
1. Re:Standing on the Shoulders of Giants by asliarun · 2014-09-23 17:31 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Could it be they succeeded in part because much of the previous experience?
  Either way, great job doing it on their first attempt and cheapest.
  Yes, but mostly no. What you say would be valid if firstly, research details (and the real nitty gritty details) would be shared freely - like open source. And to my (admittedly limited) knowledge, it is not. Yes, scientific papers and research is shared, but this is largely an engineering problem, not a scientific problem. And everyone pretty much needs to figure out the engineering challenges by themselves.
  What you say would also be true (as is true in the high tech industry, for example) if sufficient people changed jobs back and forth between organizations like NASA and ISRO. To my knowledge, ISRO works on a shoestring budget and is a fairly insular work environment. Hardly any scientists or engineers quit a NASA job to join ISRO. I could be wrong though, but I would be very very surprised if there was indeed a reverse brain drain.
  If anything, the brain drain consists of India's best and brightest relocating to the US after having studied in the near-free subsidized taxpayer funded colleges and universities in India. They typically go to the US to do their masters and PhD and then some of them join NASA.
  ISRO is actually a fairly old and mature organization. India's scientific programs, especially in the high-tech space (and especially rocketry) suffered enormously because of high-tech blockade enforced by the US. The blockade was to the extent that even simple multi-core computers were banned from being exported to India. (That's why India tried to design its own supercomputer back in the day - the Param).
  I know it may sound like I am being hyperbolic about ISRO but they actually deserve double credit for all the sh*t they had to put up with, and still managed to set ridiculous goals like this, and then achieving it, and that too on a shoestring budget and being able to retain their talent that gets paid Indian govt salaries. Trust me, that is not much. Forget about Indian pride etc. What is worth understanding is how organizations like this continue to succeed in the face of such big challenges.
2. Re:Standing on the Shoulders of Giants by Great+Big+Bird · 2014-09-23 17:33 · Score: 1
  
  What you say makes perfect plausible sense. I would even give them the double credit, if nothing else for doing it on that budget.
3. Re:Standing on the Shoulders of Giants by itzly · 2014-09-23 17:36 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  "If I have seen further than other men, it is because I was standing on their glasses" -- Isaac Newton.
4. Re:Standing on the Shoulders of Giants by William+Robinson · 2014-09-23 17:42 · Score: 1
  
  Well said. I wish I had mod points for you.
  
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  hilarious
5. Re:Standing on the Shoulders of Giants by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-23 17:43 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Not to be rude (kudos ISRO regardless of all this nitpicking!), but even without hardcore information dumps from NASA, the fact remains that ISRO's attempt, coming so much later than the other three nations' first attempts, invariably benefits from the enormous pace of global scientific and technological advancement in the interim.
  The first successes (after initial failures) of the US and Russian Mars programs came back in 1964 and 1971, respectively. I mean, forget the modern Internet and iPhones and all that for a moment.... personal computers as awesome as the Altair 8800 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altair_8800 ) were still years away from being available. Can you imagine living in a world where that Altair 8800 was too badass to even exist yet, and launching a successful Mars mission? The NASA engineers in the 50's and 60's were working with caveman technology compared to what *anyone*, even ISRO, has access to today.
  So I still contend: it's not very fair to gloat about ISRO making it on the first try *now* vs other first-failures, when the other first-failures were so long ago.
6. Re:Standing on the Shoulders of Giants by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-23 17:46 · Score: 1, Interesting
  
  May I add that the CIA was actively involved in sabotaging ISRO projects like the cryogenic engine and the careers of its best scientist.
  http://www.niticentral.com/2014/01/07/isros-lost-chance-from-19-years-ago-part-1-176383.html
7. Re:Standing on the Shoulders of Giants by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-23 18:00 · Score: 1, Insightful
  
  Arun, I would *like* to believe what you wrote. *You* would like to believe what you wrote. But do you really know the reality at ISRO? Are you actually an ISRO employee? Or is your writing just wishful thinking?
  Do you actually have technical knowledge of the mission? What part of the mission, which components, which materials, which payloads, which scientific experiments using the payloads, were actually invented/designed/developed independently in India? Which part was borrowed from elsewhere? From published papers? From overseas industry? From overseas academia?
  In the absence of such data, I would call *bulllshit* on what you write. Or 'insightful' as they call it here in Slashdot.
8. Re:Standing on the Shoulders of Giants by akozakie · 2014-09-23 18:07 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Nitpicking is fun, so I'll have a go.
  This is true, first missions used caveman technology compared to what is available now. 20+ years later is a completely different matter, right? That would be the 90s. Great, succesful missions like Mars Observer, Mars Polar Lander or Mars Climate Orbiter? Oh, wait...
  Over 20 years of technology moving forward did not make it easy for NASA to reach Mars. 20 more would not make it that much easier for the first-timer - a bit cheaper, perhaps. This is really an impressive accomplishment.
9. Re:Standing on the Shoulders of Giants by asliarun · 2014-09-23 18:10 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Not to be rude (kudos ISRO regardless of all this nitpicking!), but even without hardcore information dumps from NASA, the fact remains that ISRO's attempt, coming so much later than the other three nations' first attempts, invariably benefits from the enormous pace of global scientific and technological advancement in the interim.
  The first successes (after initial failures) of the US and Russian Mars programs came back in 1964 and 1971, respectively. I mean, forget the modern Internet and iPhones and all that for a moment.... personal computers as awesome as the Altair 8800 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... ) were still years away from being available. Can you imagine living in a world where that Altair 8800 was too badass to even exist yet, and launching a successful Mars mission? The NASA engineers in the 50's and 60's were working with caveman technology compared to what *anyone*, even ISRO, has access to today.
  So I still contend: it's not very fair to gloat about ISRO making it on the first try *now* vs other first-failures, when the other first-failures were so long ago.
  For sure. NASA and the Russian equivalent have been the pioneers in space exploration. No questions about that.
  Nonetheless, after the Cold War fueled space race fizzled out.. and it has been a couple of decades now, hardly anyone is doing anything worthwhile as far as space exploration is concerned. You will probably admit that we have regressed more than we have made progress. With this in light, it is creditable that an underfunded organization like ISRO got this funded and successfully executed.
  And let's also face the face that India is still a terribly poor country. The pursuit of science is indeed part of its value system that probably that fact alone caused ISRO to survive all these years. And ISRO has also been releasing satellites since 1975 (Aryabhata), although they only got launch capability fairly recently (1993). And admittedly, the state of the art wasn't that evolved in 1975 either.
  For sure, this is only a "proof of concept" kind of a launch, but the thing is - it now sets some new benchmarks in terms of cost, capability, scale of ambition, and execution. You can push something to Mars in 75 mil. That is pretty frickin sweet. And if you are going to talk about hype and hyperbole, look at the media coverage and hype that SpaceX and Virgin Galactic has been getting. Why begrudge ISRO their moment in the spotlight?
10. Re:Standing on the Shoulders of Giants by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-23 18:12 · Score: 1
  
  8 out of 10 Amricans do not know and do not understand India, and you are probably one of those 8 fscking idiots.
  There are hundreds of things India did first (First University? First country to develop decimal system? google a bit and you will know). Will you shut up if somebody claims that every NASA mission used decimal system developed by India?
  I am equally proud of every NASA mission. And I welcome every effort to advance scientific development. It does not matter how many years India has taken to reach there.
11. Re:Standing on the Shoulders of Giants by dbIII · 2014-09-23 18:22 · Score: 1
  
  And let's also face the face that India is still a terribly poor country
  Only if you nitpick on the same level as looking at Detroit and calling the USA a terribly poor country - India has the tenth largest economy on the planet FFS!
12. Re:Standing on the Shoulders of Giants by William+Robinson · 2014-09-23 18:26 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Most certainly ISRO must have gained a lot from previous mission whether succesful or failures and most certainly ISRO must have access to better technology. But that does not undermine the efforts of ISRO scientists.
  You need to recall that China's mission failed in 2011, and read your arguments/nitpicking again. China's failure in 2011 simply implies that with all the advantages you mentioned, MARS mission is still a challange. And ISRO needs to be praised for what they achieved.
  
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  hilarious
13. Re:Standing on the Shoulders of Giants by knwny · 2014-09-23 18:59 · Score: 2
  
  So I still contend: it's not very fair to gloat about ISRO making it on the first try *now* vs other first-failures, when the other first-failures were so long ago.
  What about Yinghuo-1 and Nozomi? They were pretty recent missions which failed, 2011 and 2003 respectively.
14. Re:Standing on the Shoulders of Giants by rvw · 2014-09-23 19:30 · Score: 1
  
  Could it be they succeeded in part because much of the previous experience?
  Either way, great job doing it on their first attempt and cheapest.
  You should reverse the question: Will NASA be able to build on this "previous" experience? Would they be able to send a rocket to Mars for $75m, in end of 2015?
15. Re:Standing on the Shoulders of Giants by DerekLyons · 2014-09-23 20:21 · Score: 1
  
  Nonetheless, after the Cold War fueled space race fizzled out.. and it has been a couple of decades now, hardly anyone is doing anything worthwhile as far as space exploration is concerned. You will probably admit that we have regressed more than we have made progress.
  Only if you only consider "manned and boldly going" to constitute the whole of space exploration. Otherwise, especially on the unmanned side, we're in something of a golden era. Especially with regards to planetary science.
  
  For sure, this is only a "proof of concept" kind of a launch, but the thing is - it now sets some new benchmarks in terms of cost, capability, scale of ambition, and execution. You can push something to Mars in 75 mil. That is pretty frickin sweet.
  Only is you consider a subcompact econobox to be "pretty frickin sweet". While Mangalyaan is indeed cheap, it's neither particularly capable, nor particularly ambitious. Even though it's impressive that they managed to do it all - as always, you get what you pay for.
  
  Why begrudge ISRO their moment in the spotlight?
  Nobody is begrudging them their moment in the spotlight - only attempting to counterbalance and correct the hype and hyperbole that so many people (like you) are spinning.
16. Re:Standing on the Shoulders of Giants by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2014-09-23 20:39 · Score: 1
  
  India couldn't have built the first university because the university is an institution of thoroughly Medieval European character. Universitas is a term from the European Middle Ages (derived from the Roman law) for a specific kind of "corporations" being self-regulated bodies of people with some shared interest (basically guilds). The things we call "universities" today just happened to be "universities of teachers and students", as opposed to other kinds of universitates.
  
  --
  Ezekiel 23:20
17. Re:Standing on the Shoulders of Giants by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2014-09-23 20:42 · Score: 2
  
  So that's why he developed a telescope that used mirrors instead of lenses?
  
  --
  Ezekiel 23:20
18. Re:Standing on the Shoulders of Giants by jandersen · 2014-09-23 20:59 · Score: 1
  
  Sometimes one gets the feeling that when the 'standing on the shoulders of giants' is rolled out like this, it actually means 'Standing on our toes'. We shouldn't begrudge them their success - I know you aren't, but others do.
  It is great, in my opinion; space exploration has been stalled for too long, and if we can get to the point where everybody does it, I'm all for it. It would be great if going in to space was no more unusual than what flying out to China is now.
19. Re:Standing on the Shoulders of Giants by KingOfGondor · 2014-09-23 21:27 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  You are being pedantic. By your standards, nothing would exist until a Latin word for it is not coined. A university, very loosely defined, is a meeting place for scholars and students, and one consisting of a formalized or semi-formalized rite of passage. By that definition, India had multiple universities from the early Buddhist era (4th century BCE) onwards. Taxila and Nalanda were two of the most famous ones, which had visiting scholars from as far abroad as China.
20. Re:Standing on the Shoulders of Giants by YA_Python_dev · 2014-09-23 22:11 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  BTW, both the article and the summary are wrong: Europe too succeeded in their first attempt, with Mars Express in 2003.
  
  --
  There's a hidden treasure in Python 3.x: __prepare__()
21. Re:Standing on the Shoulders of Giants by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-23 22:32 · Score: 1
  
  OK, so India has the 10th largest GDP in the world. Except, that is only on account of its huge population. Like Brazil, which has only like 20 percent of India's population, but is if I recall correctly the 6th largest GDP in the world, but Brazil is not a member of the so-called "First World" either. The percentage of poor neighborhoods related to wealthy neighborhoods by total population, in India, is enormous compared to the USA.
  But then again, the fact that India is not a developed country counts as another point in favor of celebrating this huge achievement of theirs.
22. Re:Standing on the Shoulders of Giants by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2014-09-23 22:32 · Score: 1
  
  So your argument is an article from an author who might not know better for people who almost certainly don't know better? The modern Nalanda university is most certainly incorporated as a university. The old Nalanda was a Buddhist monastery.
  Recently it has become fashionable worldwide to found new institutions of higher learning solely as universities. In addition, some ancient institutions of higher learning have been re-chartered and re-organized as universities. An example is the Al-Azhar University. It traces its history back to the 10th century, and is a university today, but before 1961, it was factually and legally a kind of school known as a madrasa. That seems to have confused a lot of people who now probably think that since it's a thousand years old and since it's a university today, a thousand years ago, Al-Azhar was a research and education institution similar to the one they attended. It was actually more like European medieval church schools than European medieval universities, it the sense that it was attached to a mosque and oriented towards religious subjects. In a similar manner, medieval European universities were also somewhat different in their scope and range of subjects, but they were at least independent institutions in the same way they are today, which is probably their most distinctive feature, separating them from church schools, madrasas, monastery schools etc. Those terms don't get thrown around willy-nilly. We have different terms for a reason, otherwise we could call all schools just schools and be done with it. I can understand why BBC tries to make things simpler for masses of people who have better things to do than to become history scholars, but just because journalists simplify things all the time so that they wouldn't have to explain ceaseless questions doesn't make the world itself simpler.
  Anyway, as far as "proto-universities" are concerned, the closest ancient equivalent to the modern university would probably be the Egyptian/Greek Mouseion of Alexandria - it's my understanding that it was even much more more research-oriented that the oldest medieval universities, which were largely vocational. Not to mention that it also predates the known Indian monastery schools by centuries, making the whole question moot.
  
  --
  Ezekiel 23:20
23. Re:Standing on the Shoulders of Giants by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2014-09-23 22:37 · Score: 1
  
  It's different kind of school. Being a school is the closest thing the two have in common (and basically the thing the two have in common), so why not simply call it a school? It's like cars and motorcycles being both vehicles. Why should ignorance be more broad-minded than knowledge?
  
  --
  Ezekiel 23:20
24. Re:Standing on the Shoulders of Giants by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2014-09-23 22:42 · Score: 1
  
  Sorry, that should have read "generic". That's QWERTY keyboard to you...
  
  --
  Ezekiel 23:20
25. Re:Standing on the Shoulders of Giants by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-23 23:47 · Score: 1
  
  Ahh, so the entire country of India with its population of 1.2 billion has a smaller economy than the US state of California with its population of 38 million. Gotcha.
26. Re:Standing on the Shoulders of Giants by TapeCutter · 2014-09-24 00:44 · Score: 1, Interesting
  
  India has the tenth largest economy on the planet FFS!
  Yet the number of Indians without electricity or plumbing is still greater than the entire population of the US.
  
  --
  And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
27. Re:Standing on the Shoulders of Giants by asliarun · 2014-09-24 01:17 · Score: 1
  
  Why begrudge ISRO their moment in the spotlight?
  Nobody is begrudging them their moment in the spotlight - only attempting to counterbalance and correct the hype and hyperbole that so many people (like you) are spinning.
  
  For what it is worth, I do agree with you. I think most hype surrounding these kind of accomplishments are over the top. My only point was - SpaceX etc got far more hype for doing far less. And that is what I meant - let us not begrudge ISRO.
  If you are going to say that SpaceX redefined the commercial aspect of rocketry, then ISRO too has set some new benchmarks. If you are going to argue that cost of manpower is cheap in India (hence launch costs are low) - that also ignores some crucial facts.
  Cheap wages in India ensures that most of the bright talent in India routinely migrates to US universities and US organizations like NASA. It is ridiculously hard to keep good talent in the current day and age... especially if you can only pay them a fifth of what they can easily get elsewhere.
  Secondly, cheap wages are only a small part of lauch costs. This is not some software they are building. I am not an expert, but I would imagine that most of the cost (most of the 75 million dollars) went into engineering, materials, and high tech parts. And material cost, especially for high end exotic stuff that goes into rockets - costs the same worldwide, including India.
  At best, you can say launch cost by virtue of being in India could be, say, 50%-75% of what it would cost in US. But $75 million is a tenth of what it costs NASA. So something else was also a factor. Probably frugality in all design choices, probably even cutting corners. Mind you though, an inter-planetary launch is not a joke, and doing it successfully in the first try, despite cutting corners, is quite a feat.
  It is worth understanding what ISRO did differently - what corners they cut without compromising reliability, what design philosophy they adopted - that enabled them to pull this off at this budget. I honestly think that attributing all of this to cheap labor wage is to simplistic an argument.
28. Re:Standing on the Shoulders of Giants by morgauxo · 2014-09-24 01:24 · Score: 1
  
  My favorite is the story of the Apollo 11 guidance computers' ROMs being woven by little old ladies.
29. Re:Standing on the Shoulders of Giants by Ol+Olsoc · 2014-09-24 01:45 · Score: 1
  
  Nobody is begrudging them their moment in the spotlight - only attempting to counterbalance and correct the hype and hyperbole that so many people (like you) are spinning.
  So says the person who just presented a whole post begrudging their moment in the spotlight.
  Hint: anytime someone starts with "Nobody is" what follows is them saying what they say no one is saying.
  I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'
  
  --
  The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
30. Re:Standing on the Shoulders of Giants by Lawrence_Bird · 2014-09-24 01:45 · Score: 1
  
  Did NASA opensource their rocket designs? Guidance systems? Power systems? Control and systems software and hardware? Right.
31. Re:Standing on the Shoulders of Giants by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2014-09-24 02:19 · Score: 1
  
  Those colleges also happen to be schools, it's a beautifully inclusive term that's been a part of the English vocabulary since the Anglo-Saxon period. You're correct that in some parts of Europe, the term "university" is generally reserved for proper names whereas the generic term involves the term "school" (as in "Hochschule", for example). Whether we Europeans have to work harder, I have no idea. If I were to judge from the standards at MIT or Stanford, I'd have to seriously doubt that, but I guess anything could be possible in a country with Bible colleges, I really don't know. Nevertheless, if "college" happens to be the casual generic term for contemporary institutions of tertiary education in the US, it is fortuitous that it's inapplicable to the Old World in the pre-modern period. It makes things less muddled.
  
  --
  Ezekiel 23:20
32. Re:Standing on the Shoulders of Giants by thrich81 · 2014-09-24 04:30 · Score: 2
  
  Congrats to ISRO and India as you say, and I don't know how to put this without it sounding like I am try to downplay their achievement, which I'm not, but it's worth reminding everyone who never knew or forgot: the USA only got its first satellite launch capability in 1958, and by 1964, only SIX YEARS LATER with 1960's tech, NASA flew Mariner 4 on a successful flyby mission to Mars on their second attempt. In 1962, only four years after the first USA satellite launch, NASA flew Mariner 2 on a successful flyby of Venus.
  And as someone else pointed out, I have to disagree with your statement, " and it has been a couple of decades now, hardly anyone is doing anything worthwhile as far as space exploration is concerned". Right now we have (functioning), an orbiter around Saturn, an orbiter around the asteroid Vesta (or it may be on the way to Ceres now), two rovers on Mars, an orbiter around Mercury which just finished its mission, a flyby mission on the way to Pluto, a new orbiter on the way to Jupiter, the Europeans have an orbiter around a comet, and the international community has more orbiters around Mars than I can name. Congrats again to ISRO and the Indians for adding one more, there's plenty of room for everybody, and each new one is a great human achievement.
33. Re:Standing on the Shoulders of Giants by butalearner · 2014-09-24 07:10 · Score: 1
  
  ...what corners they cut without compromising reliability...
  The trouble with that claim is it takes a bunch of launches to measure reliability. Orbital Sciences' Taurus XL had five successful missions right out of the gate before it dropped a billion dollars worth of satellites in the ocean when it failed three of the next four. Every successful launch is something to be celebrated, to be sure, but it'll take many more successes before they can claim their launch system is reliable.
  
  Secondly, cheap wages are only a small part of lauch costs. This is not some software they are building. I am not an expert, but I would imagine that most of the cost (most of the 75 million dollars) went into engineering, materials, and high tech parts. And material cost, especially for high end exotic stuff that goes into rockets - costs the same worldwide, including India.
  Engineering, materials, and high tech parts = paying people to do or create these things. The vast majority of space and military programs go to people all up and down the supply chain. A $200,000 rad-hardened flight computer (i.e. the RAD750 on the Curiosity rover) doesn't cost $200,000 in parts: they're paying that company for the development and testing that went into it.
34. Re:Standing on the Shoulders of Giants by tinker_taylor · 2014-09-24 07:58 · Score: 1
  
  [quote]
  We generally call such place "a school". You don't get any more specific than that. And I've never said that Indians didn't have schools. But calling every school "a university" renders the term utterly useless, since we already have the genetic term "a school".
  [/quote]
  "Schools" like Nalanda, Takshasheela, etc were called "Vishwa Vidyalayas" (translated from Sanskrit means World Educational Institutions). That is the term used even today in Indian languages to refer to Universities. Schools are called "Patha Shalas" (translated from Sanskrit, Learning Buildings).
  So yes, India had UNIVERSITIES before the fsckin' term University was even invented. So go suck on that for a bit ;-)
35. Re:Standing on the Shoulders of Giants by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2014-09-24 08:52 · Score: 1
  
  Just like the word "madrasa" can be used very broadly in Arabic to refer to many kinds of schools, even those have been reformed along the organizational and legal lines of a European-style university. And? Again, universitas was a kind of medieval European institution, and much later, one specific type of it later spread across the world. I'm sorry for your poor grasp of language logic and history, but if word X currently happens to be used in India to describe an institution of type Y that exists in India today, and a thousand years ago it was used in the same place to describe a different type of institution Z that existed in India a thousand years ago, that doesn't suddenly mean that institutions of type Y coexisted with institutions of type Z a thousand years ago. That only means the name was later co-opted for a purpose. But later language changes don't retroactively reshape historical facts. There's a lot of books you can read on the history of higher education, and they happen to be quite unanimous on the subject.
  
  --
  Ezekiel 23:20
36. Re:Standing on the Shoulders of Giants by tinker_taylor · 2014-09-24 10:18 · Score: 1
  
  Just like the word "madrasa" can be used very broadly in Arabic to refer to many kinds of schools, even those have been reformed along the organizational and legal lines of a European-style university. And? Again, universitas was a kind of medieval European institution, and much later, one specific type of it later spread across the world. I'm sorry for your poor grasp of language logic and history, but if word X currently happens to be used in India to describe an institution of type Y that exists in India today, and a thousand years ago it was used in the same place to describe a different type of institution Z that existed in India a thousand years ago, that doesn't suddenly mean that institutions of type Y coexisted with institutions of type Z a thousand years ago. That only means the name was later co-opted for a purpose. But later language changes don't retroactively reshape historical facts. There's a lot of books you can read on the history of higher education, and they happen to be quite unanimous on the subject.
  Are you generally this obtuse or is it a "special" effort for this topic? I suppose it is the latter.
  Don't be anachronistic when it comes to comparing historical data with present time. Just because the term "Y" was used to refer to institutions that taught "AB&C" in the 16th century in Europe, doesn't mean the same term "Y" is used to refer to institutions that teach the same subjects now. More likely "AB&C" have been replaced with "DE&F".
  It is not a question of co-existence of "Y" and "Z" (though in the alphabet they are grouped chronologically one after another). It is a question of whether "Y" now in the West can be used to refer to "Z" in the East of a time past.
  What was being taught in "Z" institutions in India around 400BCE? Philosophy, Mathematics and Medicine (including surgery) [You should read up on that before you proceed to lecture us on the difference between a school and a university]
  People traveled from various neighboring countries to study at these institutions. So, they functioned very much like the universities of today (far more than the "universities" of medieval Europe.
37. Re:Standing on the Shoulders of Giants by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2014-09-24 11:01 · Score: 1
  
  Again, there's a body of books on the historical development of higher education and nowhere in published literature on the subject have I found an opinion that the ancient schools of India, China, or Middle East should be called universities on their own merit (as opposed to how laymen call them). If you can point me to a scholarly source, either monographs or journal papers, that would corroborate your claim, I will be very thankful for that. I've posted one reference below. I'll be glad to look for some more.
  
  --
  Ezekiel 23:20
38. Re:Standing on the Shoulders of Giants by tinker_taylor · 2014-09-24 11:12 · Score: 1
  
  Again, there's a body of books on the historical development of higher education and nowhere in published literature on the subject have I found an opinion that the ancient schools of India, China, or Middle East should be called universities on their own merit (as opposed to how laymen call them). If you can point me to a scholarly source, either monographs or journal papers, that would corroborate your claim, I will be very thankful for that. I've posted one reference below. I'll be glad to look for some more.
  That's because you've studied a very euro-centric view of history. :)
  Not your fault...that's how things were in the 20th century (and have carried forward into the 21st century as well). When the current crop of "academics" croak, then we might see some realism as far as history is concerned. If one read history per Western academics, nothing happened in asia save the fueling of Western adventurism, materialism (business, science, technology, etc) and a need to educate the heathen in the ways of the Christian god!
  Don't know if this counts...I don't have the patience to try and find this out. We studied about it in Indian history (in India)...so it is common knowledge for Indians who studied in India.
  http://whc.unesco.org/en/tenta...
  
  Nalanda is one of the most ancient international centers of education and learning equivalent to modern universities, with a very rich library. An inscribed seal written "Sri-Nalandamahavihariy-Arya-Bhikshu-Sanghasya" identifies the site as Nalanda Mahavihara.
  Nalanda has a very ancient history and goes back to the days of Mahavira and Buddha in sixth and fifth centuries B.C. Many references in the Pâli Buddhist literature mention about Nâlandâ. It is said that in course of his journeys Buddha often halted at this place. It is also the place of birth and nirvana of Sariputra, one of the famous disciples of Buddha.
  The place rose into prominence in 5th Century A.D. as a great monastic-cum-educational institution for oriental art and learning in the whole Buddhist world, attracting students from like Hiuen Tsang and I-Tsing from China and other distant countries. The galaxy of luminaries associated with it includes Nagarjuna, Aryadeva, Vasubandhu, Dharmapala, Suvishnu, Asanga, Silabhadra, Dharmakirti, Shantarakshita. Another important mention in history, is that around second century, Suvishnu built one hundred and eight temples at Nalanda to prevent the decline of the Hînayâna and Mahâyâna schools of Buddhism.
  Various subjects like theology, sabda-vidyâ grammar, hetu-vidyâ (logic), astronomy, metaphysics, chikitsâ-vidyâ medicine and philosophy were taught here. The accounts of pilgrim state that Nâlandâ was bustling with literary activities.
  Nâlandâ had now acquired a celebrity spread all over the east as a centre of Buddhist theology and educational activities. This is evident from the fact that within a short period of thirty years following Hiuen Tsang's departure, no less than eleven Chinese and Korean travelers are known to have visited Nalanda.
  Life lead by Nalanda monks is regarded as the ideal to be followed by the Buddhist all over the world. This celebrity status persisted through ages. It is also attributed that a detailed history of Nalanda would be the history of Mahayanist Buddhism.
  The institution was maintained by the revenue collected from the villages bestowed specifically for the purpose by the contemporary rulers as evident from inscriptions. Royal patronage was therefore the key note of the prosperity and efficiency of Nâlandâ.
39. Re:Standing on the Shoulders of Giants by tinker_taylor · 2014-09-24 11:17 · Score: 1
  
  The University system in Ancient India was forcibly decimated as a result of Islamic invasions. There are accounts of students and teachers at Nalanda being killed in the thousands and the great library razed to the ground. The library burnt for 3 months, according to historical records.
40. Re:Standing on the Shoulders of Giants by dbIII · 2014-09-24 18:26 · Score: 1
  
  Yet they did this more cheaply than Californians spent making some movies - give up on your "gotcha" game and stop pretending that nobody outside of your country is worth considering.
41. Re:Standing on the Shoulders of Giants by skalwani · 2014-09-25 04:39 · Score: 1
  
  You are most likely correct. ISRO consults regularly with NASA and many other space agencies and they do share findings and publish many results. There is no doubt at all that they would have checked with previous missions to learn what worked and what did not, so they could all benefit from this.
42. Re:Standing on the Shoulders of Giants by skalwani · 2014-09-25 04:54 · Score: 1
  
  To your specific point: "hardly any engineers quit NASA to join ISRO", they do not need to. Many of the underlying technologies come from a variety of sources. All you need is a few to be the mentors or lead. ISRO has been around for a long time and so they do have a depth of their own experiences, plus what ever talent is developed locally or by folks who learn from others in stints in Europe, USA, etc. ISRO has also lots of experience since 1950s? It would be interesting to learn how much COTS stuff went into their MOM (% wise...) AFAIK,ISRO folks who do share whatever is possible and makes sense. I have worked with a few ISRO folks and they have shared and published whatever they can. I totally agree 100% with the rest of your observations.
43. Re:Standing on the Shoulders of Giants by skalwani · 2014-09-25 04:56 · Score: 1
  
  Mumbai is not where most of ISRO resides :-) They are scattered if I recall correctly across many places in the Southern part of India, East coast and the rents there are not bad at all. (Certainly cheaper than Mumbai). Also many ISRO facilities provide low cost housing on their campus too.
44. Re:Standing on the Shoulders of Giants by raorajesh · 2014-09-25 08:20 · Score: 1
  
  Nitpicking is fun, so I'll have a go.
  This is true, first missions used caveman technology compared to what is available now. 20+ years later is a completely different matter, right? That would be the 90s. Great, succesful missions like Mars Observer, Mars Polar Lander or Mars Climate Orbiter? Oh, wait...
  Over 20 years of technology moving forward did not make it easy for NASA to reach Mars. 20 more would not make it that much easier for the first-timer - a bit cheaper, perhaps. This is really an impressive accomplishment.
  Sure would have been a valid obs by the poster except that US etc have cock-blocked India on space tech for so long that India has mostly done this on its own (of course everyone has access to international research work/journals at a low cost/access). The fact that this was done despite cock-blocking at colossal levels makes it so much sweeter.
Congratulations India by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-23 17:11 · Score: 1

India looks better producing Scientists and Engineers THAN its neighbours producing terrrorists.
1. Re:Congratulations India by Trax3001BBS · 2014-09-23 17:17 · Score: 1
  
  I don't really agree with your outlook on it's people (I don't know them), but yes congratulations India, well done.
2. Re: Congratulations India by rvw · 2014-09-23 20:20 · Score: 1
  
  India produces better looking scientists than most countries.
  You mean scientists like this Indian God?
Outsourced by baker_tony · 2014-09-23 17:21 · Score: 1

Maybe the Indian's outsourced the work...
1. Re:Outsourced by perryizgr8 · 2014-09-23 18:04 · Score: 1
  
  This is such a good idea.
  
  --
  Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
The first attempt by Champaklal · 2014-09-23 17:28 · Score: 3

European Space Agency was the first to do it right in first attempt. India is the first country to do so, and ISRO, second organization. We can expect to read more on the composition and presence of water by studying Hydrogen and Deuterium (Heavy isotope of Hydrogen with at. mass 2) in martian atmosphere. Mostly the atmosphere of mars would be extremely rare even at the closest point. The Karman line of Mars (the limit beyond which atmosphere is assumed to have ended and space is assumed to have started) should be close to 65 Kms. I'm not sure Lyman alpha camera would be able to compute the presence.
1. Re:The first attempt by 93+Escort+Wagon · 2014-09-23 19:29 · Score: 2
  
  European Space Agency was the first to do it right in first attempt.
  Too bad about their lander, though.
  
  --
  #DeleteChrome
2. Re:The first attempt by thrich81 · 2014-09-24 12:20 · Score: 1
  
  Everyone is getting all excited about India/ISRO and ESA making it to Mars on their first attempt -- great, good job, those are achievements, no question. Here is the Wikipedia description of the USA's first attempt at Mars in 1964:, "Mariner 3 was launched on November 5, 1964 from Cape Canaveral Air Force Station Launch Complex 13, but the shroud encasing the spacecraft atop its rocket failed to open properly, and Mariner 3 did not get to Mars. Unable to collect the Sun's energy for power from its solar panels, the probe soon died when its batteries ran out and is now derelict in a solar orbit. THREE WEEKS LATER (emphasis mine), on November 28, 1964, the identical Mariner 4 was launched successfully on a 7½-month voyage to the red planet." So the second spacecraft of a two spacecraft attempt was successful, in 1964.
  By the way, the first US attempt at Venus, the Mariner 1 mission, failed on launch, but, ONE MONTH LATER, the identical Mariner 2 spacecraft was launched and had a successful mission to Venus, in 1962. So, yes, these were not successful on the "first attempt" but about as close as you can get without technically achieving it, and done in a hurry, only 4 and 6 years after the US first put a satellite into orbit.
Congratulations to India and everyone involved by Harlequin80 · 2014-09-23 17:37 · Score: 4, Insightful

The more information we as a species can gather about other planets and travelling through space can only help us all in the future.
To have achieved this at the cost they have means far more experiments performed and more sensors launched.
Congratulations.
1. Re:Congratulations to India and everyone involved by itzly · 2014-09-23 18:54 · Score: 1
  
  Exploration of space and the solar system is mostly for fun. It's interesting to see what other places look like, but it's unlikely that it is going to affect us a species. Earth observing satellites will have a greater impact on that.
2. Re:Congratulations to India and everyone involved by rvw · 2014-09-24 00:24 · Score: 1
  
  Exploration of space and the solar system is mostly for fun. It's interesting to see what other places look like, but it's unlikely that it is going to affect us a species. Earth observing satellites will have a greater impact on that.
  In your lifetime probably yes. When the first trains started to move in the early 1800s, you could probably say the same.
3. Re:Congratulations to India and everyone involved by tinker_taylor · 2014-09-24 08:02 · Score: 1
  
  Why is this considered "boasting"? Why can't it be considered emphatic celebration of a scientific/engineering achievement. Being the nerds that we Indians are in general, it is not that uncharacteristic of us to do so.
  Better that than "boast" about being the world champions in Baseball or American football :) (and ducks for the brickbats that are sure to follow)
4. Re:Congratulations to India and everyone involved by Harlequin80 · 2014-09-24 15:37 · Score: 1
  
  Who knows what the impacts might be. I am 30 now, let say I live until my 90s. Since I have been born the transistor has completely changed life for most of us on this planet. 60 years before I was born cars were only really starting to have a big impact. By the time I die we have no idea what the major changes will be and where they will come from. Low gravity environments may be the key to materials or processes which enable us to do things we can't do now, and the value of those materials may make launching worth while, especially if India has a cost base as low as it seems.
inches and meters by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-23 17:39 · Score: 1, Insightful

Nay
The Indians, unlike their counterparts from an "advanced country", know to not confuse inches from meters
1. Re:inches and meters by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-24 01:19 · Score: 1
  
  Nay
  The Indians, unlike their counterparts from an "advanced country", know to not confuse inches from meters
  That was 34 years after our first attempted flyby mission in 1964, in which the payload fairing failed to separate. We had a successful flyby 23 days later. Our first orbiter mission was in 1971, in which the launch vehicle failed to reach orbit. We had a successful orbiter mission 21 days later.
  ISRO definitely has something to be proud of, don't get me wrong, but NASA pulled off the same thing 43 years ago, a few months before the first microprocessor was created.
Re:good by pushing-robot · 2014-09-23 17:39 · Score: 1

But the US and Soviet Union were doing all this and more in the seventies with vastly inferior technology and far more unknowns. Lets face facts: If North Korea managed to produce an Apple II clone in 2014, you probably wouldn't be saying the west needs to get over their 'patriot peens' and accept Kim Jong-Un as a capable computer builder.
That said, this is a huge step for India's fledgeling space program and I hope that by 2030 or so they will indeed have caught up with the US and Russia.

--
How can I believe you when you tell me what I don't want to hear?
Impressive, but probably not that cheap. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-23 17:48 · Score: 3, Interesting

I suspect that the "true cost" is somewhat higher than the quoted 74M. For instance, how many spares from Chandrayaan did they use? One should always be suspicious of major spaceflight operations that claim unusually low cost or unusually fast times, because most of the time they are leveraging pre-existing assets. For instance, most flight hardware components (computers, radios, antennas) have 2-3 year manufacturing lead times: it takes that amount of time to go through the design review process, acquire the appropriate components, assemble the widget, run it through the shake and bake environmental tests, etc.
If you're doing a first mission that needs, say, 2 radios, and you buy 2 plus a couple spares, and you make it through the qualification program and none fell out, you now have two perfectly good radios sitting on the shelf ready to go. But it's not really fair to claim those as being cost free, nor not contributing the schedule.
However, in general, well done to the Indian team.
Parts have been outsourced for decades by dbIII · 2014-09-23 18:29 · Score: 2

Such a good idea that such a thing was done by NASA from the 1960s onwards. Space exploration is a far more global effort than people seem to realise and there is NASA money in a lot of projects from the south pole (plant growth experiments) northwards. For example a lot of NASA money went into Australian based scramjet projects from the 1980s onwards. There's so many bits being worked on all over that place that there is bound to be some Indian involvement.
Yes yes, the rates, I've seen that before. by Tablizer · 2014-09-23 18:30 · Score: 1

Mangalyaan was made in 15 months at a cost of just around 74 million USD â" the cheapest inter-planetary mission ever to be undertaken.
Because they outsource to themselves at 1/3 the cost of Americans.

--
Table-ized A.I.
1. Re:Yes yes, the rates, I've seen that before. by rvw · 2014-09-24 00:27 · Score: 1
  
  Mangalyaan was made in 15 months at a cost of just around 74 million USD â" the cheapest inter-planetary mission ever to be undertaken.
  Because they outsource to themselves at 1/3 the cost of Americans.
  So even thát they do better!
Innovations out of the MoM or Mangalyaan by rinka · 2014-09-23 18:38 · Score: 5, Informative

There have been significant innovations brought to the global space efforts by Mangalyaan. These innovations are the ones that cut the costs of the Mars initiative to $75M.
There have been innovations in planning, management and execution. The key ones have been a strategic focus on component reuse and leveraging other ongoing space missions within ISRO to concurrently complete tasks for Mangalyaan (:-) Isro folks hate the nickname). The whole project was planned in detail and completely schedule driven. Mangalyaan took 18 months from Mission announcement to lift-off. http://www.forbes.com/sites/sa...
The other major innovation was in terms of software modelling & simulation of the entire mission. Physical tests were made redundant on a scale never done before - just one prototype was needed. This cut waste, time & costs significantly.
ISRO chose a longer route but the slingshotting technique paid off in terms of far lesser fuel consumption (thus reducing the weight of the space craft) and yet took approximately the same time as the Maven.
Low manpower costs also helped.
I would think the payoffs to the global space community are in terms of cutting edge techniques developed. Collaboration with the Indian industry have helped build next-gen capability which will pay off in the years to come.
The Mom, a Technology demonstrator is a product of Jugaad or Frugal Engineering. The next mission is scheduled for sometime in 2017-2020. More at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M...
1. Re:Innovations out of the MoM or Mangalyaan by rinka · 2014-09-23 19:31 · Score: 2
  
  For those interested in detailed tracking: http://www.hindustantimes.com/...
2. Re:Innovations out of the MoM or Mangalyaan by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2014-09-23 20:52 · Score: 2
  
  ISRO chose a longer route but the slingshotting technique paid off in terms of far lesser fuel consumption (thus reducing the weight of the space craft)
  
  I'm quite sure they didn't "choose" it as much as they were forced to go that route by the less capable launcher hardware they had, but people usually get more inventive when faced with design constraints, and of course it doesn't diminish the value of the effort.
  
  --
  Ezekiel 23:20
Collaboration by vinayind · 2014-09-23 18:45 · Score: 1

I think part of the intent for ISRO was to collaborate with NASA on future missions. After USA's recent fallout with Russia over Ukraine, I think NASA is keen on finding an alternate partner (and a cheaper one if possible) for its future space missions. Historically ISRO has provided launch services to many European and Japanese satellites.
fw: fw: fe: mission to mars by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-23 18:49 · Score: 1, Funny

Amit,
Please do the needful.
regards
Sunil
Mangalyaan? by 93+Escort+Wagon · 2014-09-23 19:27 · Score: 1

Weren't those the bad guys in The Fifth Element?

--
#DeleteChrome
Congratulations by myid · 2014-09-23 19:28 · Score: 1

Congratulations, India and ISRO. I'm happy about your success, and I wish you well in the future.
Great Outsourcing Opportunity by aberglas · 2014-09-23 19:29 · Score: 1

Instead of spending billions for NASA to maintain the ISS and other dubious enterprises, why not just pay ISRO some of our small change to do it for us. I bet you they could have put a rover on Mars for less than the cost of the wheels on Curiosity. For the cost of Curiosity we could have a rover on Pluto.
Kudos to PM Modi as well... by JaredOfEuropa · 2014-09-23 19:33 · Score: 3, Insightful

Nice of the PM to visit and sit in on the last stage of the journey, putting science and scientists in the spotlight. Over here (NL) we hardly ever celebrate scientific successes, and accomplished scientists receive less attention and recognition from politicians than sports heroes.

--
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
With a budget of 74M ,,, by Taco+Cowboy · 2014-09-23 19:58 · Score: 3, Funny

... I wonder what NASA can do with a budget of $74 million ...

... hmm .....

--
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
1. Re:With a budget of 74M ,,, by Cornwallis · 2014-09-23 20:59 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  I'm sure they *might* be able to put together a little website with some animated cartoons of rockets. (Prolly end up having to get it redone after it fails to launch properly.)
2. Re:With a budget of 74M ,,, by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-23 23:06 · Score: 1
  
  NASA has higher standards than other space agencies. After all, NASA are the ones who trailblazed pretty much everything to do with space exploration. Everyone else just tried to copy based on NASA's data.
3. Re:With a budget of 74M ,,, by VTBlue · 2014-09-24 01:34 · Score: 1
  
  ... I wonder what NASA can do with a budget of $74 million ... ... hmm .....
  Hire India?
4. Re:With a budget of 74M ,,, by TWX · 2014-09-24 02:43 · Score: 1
  
  It also doesn't hurt that India sends their promising engineering students to American technical universities of note like MIT and Caltech, so they can learn from the technical history of the American space program as the successes and failures of that program are integrated into the curriculum. They've literally learned from our mistakes.
  
  --
  Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
5. Re:With a budget of 74M ,,, by vu2lid · 2014-09-24 04:40 · Score: 1
  
  In practice very few of those MIT/Caltech graduates go back and work for institutions like ISRO in India (yes a few of them go back to teach in schools like IITs in India). From my experience, most of the people who work for Indian space and related programes had their education in India.
6. Re:With a budget of 74M ,,, by skalwani · 2014-09-25 04:42 · Score: 1
  
  You are 100% correct. NASA has done many a trailblazing projects and they are not averse to other nations for example ESA, trying their techniques or improving upon them. Sometimes NASA also learns from what others try differently.
7. Re:With a budget of 74M ,,, by skalwani · 2014-09-25 04:44 · Score: 1
  
  Slight correction: a few do go back and actually share what they have learnt. Many of these then mentor or guide many many legions of promising researchers, engineers and techs - so they overall help make an impact. I do not see what that is such a big deal. It is always good to learn from mistakes, does not matter who makes them.
8. Re: With a budget of 74M ,,, by kyjellyfish · 2014-09-25 04:44 · Score: 1
  
  So, any day now we should expect NASA to outsource tech support on their new Maven probe, to Mangalyaan.
9. Re:With a budget of 74M ,,, by skalwani · 2014-09-25 04:47 · Score: 1
  
  It varies: I mentioned earlier in another response: it is the ones who went back and mentored the bulk of the ISRO folks - which helps explain a lot of recent successes. ISRO has also has had their fair share of mistakes too. As for the $74 million cost - lot has to do with the salaries being a major factor. Same projects can cost different amounts depending upon where the bulk of the work is performed.
Mangalyaan in English by Champaklal · 2014-09-23 19:58 · Score: 4, Informative

A small trivia- Mangalyaan is a Hindi compound word (in Sanskrit like languages, you can join two words) which means Mangal = Mars and Yaan meaning vehicle. A simple and effective name!
1. Re:Mangalyaan in English by DNS-and-BIND · 2014-09-24 01:58 · Score: 1
  
  It's too long and unpronounceable. They should have consulted a branding consultant before settling on that name. Well, at least they're doing better than the names of most open source products.
  
  --
  Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
2. Re:Mangalyaan in English by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-24 02:20 · Score: 1
  
  'Mangalyaan' is just a code name, the official name is Mars Orbiter Mission. And trust me, for most of the Indians 'Mangalyaan' is more pronounceable than 'Mars Orbiter Mission' .
Kudos to PM Modi as well... by palemantle · 2014-09-23 20:01 · Score: 3, Interesting

Nice of the PM to visit and sit in on the last stage of the journey, putting science and scientists in the spotlight. Over here (NL) we hardly ever celebrate scientific successes, and accomplished scientists receive less attention and recognition from politicians than sports heroes.
Indeed, the Indian PM also tried to put this into perspective vis-a-vis sports wins with the following quote:
"This achievement is far greater than a cricket win"

(Source: http://www.thehindu.com/sci-te...)
Opens up a new courier option to Mars by fantomas · 2014-09-23 20:05 · Score: 1

Agreed- good science by India - congratulations to ISRO for their work. Certainly it may open up interplanetary exploration in the same way SpaceX have been redefining conversations about getting into earth orbit. the NASA Mars Orbiter cost 671 million. I am sure it is more complex, but I am also sure some spaces agencies may be contacting ISRO to ask about using their platform to transport their experiments to Mars as an interesting alternative to NASA's much more expensive option. More options to getting to Mars presumably means it's more likely more spacecraft will be heading that way?
fastening in Earth's Rotation time? by Champaklal · 2014-09-23 20:06 · Score: 1

I was just wondering - Since we are putting satellites (a mass m) in space, we are reducing the mass (and hence moment of inertia) of earth. Shouldn't this change the angular velocity of its rotation about its axis? If so, what would be the delta? too small to observe?
1. Re:fastening in Earth's Rotation time? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-23 21:12 · Score: 1
  
  Several thousands of tons of materials from space falls unto Earth every year (most in the form of dust, some meteorites), so lobbing a satellite of a few tons into space from time to time is utterly irrelevant.
but I'm pleased their media is just as bonkers! by fantomas · 2014-09-23 20:21 · Score: 1, Funny

Very true. I am pleased one of the stories gives its readers the handy hint that the rocket "weighed nearly 320 tonnes - almost as much as 50 full-grown elephants". Nice to see the media world-wide goes for those handy public friendly measurement analogies to really mess with people's heads. Not sure how many elephants there are to the Library of Congress or a US football pitch however.
Re:good by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2014-09-23 20:44 · Score: 1

It may be more about the price tag than anything else.

--
Ezekiel 23:20
It's good for everyone future by jataktravel · 2014-09-23 21:35 · Score: 1

now we will have more knowledge about Mars
IndiaTimes story by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-24 00:01 · Score: 1

BANGALORE: An Indian spacecraft Wednesday entered into Mars orbit in its maiden attempt by executing the crucial operation precisely to create history.
The final operation began at 4.17 a.m. when the spacecraft's medium antenna was first activated for signals and it was rotated towards Mars at 6.57 a.m.
"The 440 Newton liquid apogee motor (LAM) was fired at 7.17 a.m. and its burn started on dot at 7.30 a.m. as programmed for the crucial operation," a senior space scientist told IANS at the Mars mission control centre here.
Test firing of the LAM for nearly four seconds Monday, nine months and 21 days after it was shut Dec 1, 2013, enabled it burn as intended for insertion.
"The burn was terminated at 7.54 a.m. when the required braking velocity was achieved and the spacecraft was reoriented to point its antenna towards earth for resuming communication with ground stations," the scientist said.
The Orbiter's speed was also reduced by 2.14 metres per second from 22.2 km per second for its smooth transition into Mars orbit from Sun orbit.
The burn took place when there was a solar eclipse on Mars for 15 minutes. As a result, radio link between the spacecraft and earth stations snapped.
"As the accelerometers onboard were programmed in advance, the commands were executed automatically," the scientist claimed.
The eclipse occurred owing to Mars, sun and earth geometry (moving on same axis) five minutes after burn started (7.35 a.m.).
"As the spacecraft entered the eclipse phase, we had to re-orient it to align the thrust vector before firing the engine along with its eight small thrusters to reduce its speed," the official added.
The spacecraft is cruising in an elliptical orbit 427 km from Mars surface (perapsis) and 78,500km away from it (apoasis).
The Orbiter will take 77 hours or 3.2 earth days to rotate around the red planet over the next six months and for studying its surface and mineral composition and scan its atmosphere for methane gas in search of life-sustaining elements.
http://economictimes.indiatime...
Re:good by rvw · 2014-09-24 00:21 · Score: 1

It may be more about the price tag than anything else.
Ezekiel 23:20
What version of the Bible is that!?
A lusty one!
ARE YOU KIDDING?? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-24 06:54 · Score: 1

"NASA are the ones who trailblazed pretty much everything to do with space exploration" ARE YOU KIDDING?
first artificial satellite, USSR: http://www.space.com/17852-sputnik-space-race-first-satellite-photos.html
first human in space, USSR: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_Gagarin
first woman in space, USSR: http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/first-woman-in-space
first unmanned landing on the moon, USSR: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_landing
first mission to Venus, USSR: http://www.windows2universe.org/venus/space_missions.html
first mission to Mars, USSR: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_missions_to_Mars
The U.S. is of course the only country so far to have landed humans on the moon, and it has an impressive list of sophisticated and successful missions.
But to pretend that NASA did all the trailblazing is ignorant.
Imperial Nanking university, China, 258AD by fantomas · 2014-09-24 08:49 · Score: 1

Funny that, I work at a European university and this afternoon I attended a presentation on scholarship, part of which included a history of scholarship and the university. The highly regarded senior lecturer flagged up Imperial Nanking University, 258AD, as the first real university, and made a good case for it, as does wikipedia.
I think you're arguing that a university is only a university if it follows a definition of what one is according to Western European medieval law: I'd say most people would go with a definition that explores how it matches against educational criteria. Something on the lines of a gathering together of scientists and educators to share ideas, engage in research, and communicate expertise to students with the goal of enabling them to achieve mastery (and in turn teach others), while reflecting on the practices of teaching and learning. The educational model that medieval European universities operated on definitely has predecessors elsewhere in the world, such as China, and I could believe India as well.
1. Re:Imperial Nanking university, China, 258AD by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2014-09-24 09:34 · Score: 1
  
  I'm arguing that even if the medieval university was a slightly different place than the modern university, the latter, as found all around the world, is an evolutionary product of the former. That's not to say that sharks can't superficially resemble dolphins. But researchers in the field have had some very strong opinions on this. One could spend a few hours in a library and find a dozen claims like that. (I've had a plan to do just that recently, what with me having interest in the overall history of education and learning, but I have to set aside the time.) You can most certainly disagree, but then you'll have to go to the authors of these copious monographs and not to me.
  If the description you're giving, namely
  
  a gathering together of scientists and educators to share ideas, engage in research, and communicate expertise to students with the goal of enabling them to achieve mastery (and in turn teach others), while reflecting on the practices of teaching and learning
  should be the sole criterion, than I'd argue that this role had already been amply fulfilled by Mouseion - including the public funding, if I'm not mistaken.
  
  --
  Ezekiel 23:20
Term out of context by dbIII · 2014-09-24 18:24 · Score: 1

but Brazil is not a member of the so-called "First World"
That name comes from the Cold War. USA plus military allies (including NATO), then U.S.S.R. + satellites, then the rest as the "third world". It never had an economic meaning.
Rocking Indian Scientists by raorajesh · 2014-09-25 08:13 · Score: 1

It cost less than 12 cents per km... taxis in Mumbai and Delhi cost 24 cents+.. per km
Disruptive by NewYork · 2014-09-25 16:18 · Score: 1

50% Children In India Are Malnourished.
1/3rd People In India Cannot Afford A 2nd Meal.

I hope Mangalyaan is "disruptive" enough to solve these problems.

--
Casteism