Acer Launches First 4K Panel With NVIDIA G-Sync Technology On Board

MojoKid writes: Save for a smattering of relatively small, 3K and 4K laptop displays, we haven't quite gotten to the same type of pixel density on the PC platform, that is available on today's high-end ultra-mobile devices. That said, the desktop display space has really heated up as of late and 4K panels have generated a large part of the buzz. Acer just launched the first 4K display with NVIDIA G-Sync technology on board. To put it simply, G-SYNC keeps a display and the output from an NVIDIA GPU in sync, regardless of frame rates or whether or not V-Sync is enabled. Instead of the monitor controlling the timing and refreshing at say 60Hz, the timing control is transferred to the GPU. The GPU scans a frame out to the monitor and the monitor doesn't update until a frame is done drawing, in lock-step with the GPU. This method completely eliminates tearing or frame stuttering associated with synchronization anomalies of standard panels. There are still some quirks with Windows and many applications that don't always scale properly on high-DPI displays, but the situation is getting better every day. If you're a gamer in the market for a 4K display, that's primed for gaming, the Acer XB280HK is a decent new option with this technology on board, though it does come at a bit of a premium at $799 versus standard 28-inch panels.

Comments

All I want

[Spencer Drager]

All I want is a 35"+ 4k display with a 60hz refresh rate for under $300. Is that so much to ask?

Re:All I want

[Anonymous Coward]

All I want is a window shade OLED monitor of 60-70" diagonal...with touch capabilities for 500-600 dollars...that connects wirelessly to my compute cube.

Re:All I want

[Mal-2]

All I want is a 35"+ 4k display with a 60hz refresh rate for under $300. Is that so much to ask?

Yes, it is, at least with current manufacturing capabilities. Small high-density screens are exactly that -- small. If you have one defect every 30 cm (linear) on average, this may affect one screen out of five -- and even then, there's still some non-critical use where that screen will be just fine. (The front panel of a radio, for example.)

If you're trying to produce large panels with that same defect rate, your rate of defect-free panels is going to be astonishingly low, and there won't be much of a market for the defective ones. Even if Yamakasi is willing to buy and package them, it hurts the image of 4k in general that they hit the streets at all.

This high failure rate means the panels are going to be expensive, because you're not just paying for the one you get. You're also paying for the ones that didn't make the cut.

Re:All I want

[Moof123]

The 39" Seiki TV is a good shot across the bow of your argument. 60 Hz refresh in a proper monitor format is coming next year, but for now you can pick up the current TV version for $340 shipped from Amazon. I think the next 12 months will bring a big shift to 4k the way we went from CRT's to LCD's in an amazingly short window.

Re:All I want

[Mal-2]

What are the dead/stuck pixel rates acceptable on a TV? GGP asked about displays, not TVs. Although you can press a TV into service as a monitor, and it might even do the job well, the level of blemishes deemed acceptable in a TV is considerably higher than that of a computer monitor.

Re:All I want

[dfghjk]

The 39" Seiki is two panels side by side, not one panel. There are defects easily exposed when using this TV as a monitor. It is truly horrible in that application.

Re:All I want

[AmiMoJo]

Those cheap 4k TVs aren't really worth it though. They use panels that fail on things like colour quality and uniformity. You would be better off getting a 2k TV with good panel and processor.

Re:All I want

[Anonymous Coward]

And quality monitor panels cost much, much more than usual displays do. My 30" 2.5K monitor (hp zr30w) cost $1500 and still cost that on NewEgg. You might be able to find 4K panels for half or a third of that now, but I guarantee you their color gamut, color accuracy, viewing angle, black level uniformity and brightness won't measure up (In particular, cheap LCD backlit panels have poor black level and black level uniformity).

To answer your question: http://www.tested.com/tech/1337-we-uncover-the-dead-pixel-policies-for-every-major-lcd-maker/
According to ISO, Class 1 displays are flawless, class 2 may have up to 2 dead pixels and 5 bad subpixels per million. Executive summary:

Apple: zero on small displays, ~2 on an iPad to ~10 on a 30" Cinema (based on size)
Dell: 6 dead pixels to replace, or one hot pix/subpixel on premium panels
HP: max 5/4 subpixels for displays, up to 9 defects on HD laptop panels (To my knowledge my zr30w has one warm - not hot - red element, which is visibly twisted if observed under a loupe, and zero dead elements)
Samsung: If it's objectionable enough and you sweet-talk us we'll probably replace it
Asus: Roughly, zero hot and up to 3 or 5 dark subelements
Viewsonic: Zero defects out-of-box for 30 days. Thereafter any one in center, two at edges or three in corners is replaced
Acer: ~5 defects/MP or more is replaced
IBM/Lenovo: any 3 or more defects = new panel

Re:All I want

[Khyber]

"This high failure rate means the panels are going to be expensive, because you're not just paying for the one you get. You're also paying for the ones that didn't make the cut."

You could almost say the same for Apple products back in the G3/G4 iBook/PowerBook series.

When roughly two out of three came off the line defective and were immediately caught in testing and sent back for refurbishing.

Then repair depots getting shipments of logic boards with sand in them.

Glad I don't work that nonsense any longer. I'll take my home job where 15 minutes of work nets me 80 bucks, every day.

SLASHDOT AUTO PLAYS FRONT PAGE VIDEO ADS

[Anonymous Coward]

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Re:SLASHDOT AUTO PLAYS FRONT PAGE VIDEO ADS

[tompaulco]

Mod parent up. I was trying to hunt down last night what tab in Firefox was outputting audio at me. It turned out to be slashdot. BAD SLASHDOT! Keep this up and I will hit that disable advertisement which I have the option to do. I go ahead and let them serve me ads which I would never in a million years actually click on, because I know they get paid for impressions and I feel they deserve some money for hosting the site. But forcing me to have to listen to the audio of some advertisement that clearly makes no sense without the video and without prompting to be played, when for all they know I could be trying to videoconference with the CEO or something? That is just wrong.

Re:SLASHDOT AUTO PLAYS FRONT PAGE VIDEO ADS

[meustrus]

You videoconference with the CEO while surfing slashdot?

Re:SLASHDOT AUTO PLAYS FRONT PAGE VIDEO ADS

[tompaulco]

I could be. I could be doing any number of things including reading slashdot for 5 minutes during my lunchbreak and then leaving the tab open but not ever looking at it again, and my boss could come in and wonder why there are ads playing on my laptop.
Technically, we are not allowed to be streaming audio or video, so slashdot is causing me to violate company policy if they autoplay the ads.

Re:SLASHDOT AUTO PLAYS FRONT PAGE VIDEO ADS

[AmiMoJo]

Click to play on all media plugins. No more auto play ads, without blocking the static ones.

Re:SLASHDOT AUTO PLAYS FRONT PAGE VIDEO ADS

[pitchpipe]

soylentnews.org: it's where all the cool kids hang.

Re:SLASHDOT AUTO PLAYS FRONT PAGE VIDEO ADS

[meustrus]

Oh, don't get me wrong. I have ads disabled now because the auto-playing video ads sucked up too much bandwidth. Which is a shame because I want Slashdot to get ad revenues from my visits. But I'd rather my ISP, at home or at work, not have to pay for streaming video I didn't request. That's exactly the sort of thing that makes them think they need to charge more money for less actual service and then burn the candle at both ends. I'd say the "fast lane" idea might be justified under such conditions, but you just know the advertisers can pay to prioritize their shitty content.</rant>

Slashvertisement

[Anonymous Coward]

Hm. Thanks for the slashvertisement. (Not.) Now FUCK OFF!

Proprietary

[DrYak]

The problem is that G-sync is a proprietary solution by Nvidia.

Whereas, Adaptive Sync is a VESA standard officially part of the DisplayPort 1.2a specs.

Re:Proprietary

[UnknowingFool]

All that matters to me is that Minesweeper is now in sync. Have you played it without sync technology? It's uncivilized!!

Re:Proprietary

[aliquis]

I'd say price point matter more at this point.

I would prefer to have an Nvidia card and I would prefer to have monitor synced to the GPU.

As is Adaptive-Sync may be a standard of DisplayPort 1.2a but even the new Nvidia cards only have DisplayPort 1.2 and who knows what Nvidia will do. It suck to get an Nvidia card if they are retarded and decide not to support Adaptive-Sync but I don't want anything else either because Nvidia make the best products. :/

Some time some idiot lectured me using this:
http://www.geforce.com/hardwar... .. except it's not the same thing (that person may have also lectured me about DX12 which may have been correct (in that all Nvidia DX11 graphic cards will support DX12.))

Re:Proprietary

[aliquis]

19 September 2014 - Secret press conference - Nvidia will support Adaptive-Sync: http://www.sweclockers.com/nyh...
25 September 2014 - Nvidia won't offer support for Adaptive-Sync but will instead continue with their G-sync and hence never implemented DVI 1.2a support: http://www.nordichardware.se/G...

Both link in Swedish.

Nvidia - Assholes. If true.

Re:Proprietary

[jopsen]

The problem is that G-sync is a proprietary solution by Nvidia.

Whereas, Adaptive Sync is a VESA standard officially part of the DisplayPort 1.2a specs.

Good point... I'm all done with Nvidia and AMD. The only somewhat reliable graphics thing is intel. Next time I get a laptop I'll lookout and make sure I don't get something with one of nvidia's proprietary solutions... Currently stuck without external display because it runs over nvidia optimus; which is utter shit in any configuration under linux.

Re:Proprietary

[Anonymous Coward]

Sadly, "Nvidia reinvents the standardized wheel and refuses to support the equally-good or superior standard" is a story as old a dirt.

Tell your friends to buy ATI/AMD graphics cards. They aren't always as fast, but the company behind them has far better business practices.

Re:Proprietary

[afidel]

Intel will be able to support playable framerates @4k sometime in 2020 or so...

Re:Proprietary

[ledow]

Because the average persons care about business practices rather than, say, having the best product.

I can't convince friends that there are better alternatives to Apple, I sure as hell couldn't get them away from nVidia just because of their use of a proprietary "standard".

(And, to be honest, I'm with them - I don't really care at all about 4K, and would rather use the faster, more stable card / driver available).

Re:Proprietary

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm glad you think nvidia makes the best products, for me I have had 3 nvidia card die. an old 8800GTS dies twice, replaced both times. Then I had a gtx760 card which was doa. Sometimes AMD/ATI gpus piss me off, but none of their cards has ever dies on me. FU nvidia and your stupid gsync.

Re:Proprietary

[Kjella]

Serious gaming graphics card makers supporting G-sync: 1
Serious gaming graphics card makers supporting Adaptive Sync: 1

As for the monitor manufacturers, I'm pretty sure they are on the passive end of this - customers choose graphics card first, then a screen that works with that card. So while it is a standard, I doubt consumers will care. nVidia is the top dog, with GTX 970/980 they gave AMD another kick to the balls and they're in a position where they can choose to be the MS Office of the market. How far as OpenOffice's standards compliance gotten them in dethroning MS Office? Not far, around here at least.

Re:Proprietary

[MildlyTangy]

All that matters to me is that Minesweeper is now in sync. Have you played it without sync technology? It's uncivilized!!

What is this minesweeper you talk about? I looked on Steam, but cant find anything.

Please dont tell me this is some ancient analog card game or something...

Re:Proprietary

[Anonymous Coward]

Maximum number of card makers who will ever support G-sync: 1
Maximum number of card and monitor makers who will ever support an open standard: all of them.

The only advantage g-sync ever had was that it was first to market. And it was first to market because it is nothing more than an ugly hack. It should be abandoned as soon as possible so that it stops holding back the market.

Re:Proprietary

[locopuyo]

It will probably be a year before any monitors come out with the VESA standard Adaptive Sync. You can get GSYNC monitors now.

I used the GSYNC upgrade kit on my VG248QE in January and since experiencing GSYNC I could never go back. Everything is much smoother at all frame rates without stuttering or tearing or any of the added input latency standard VSYNC adds.
I can't wait for non-nvidia support, but it is a long ways out.

Re:Proprietary

[guises]

customers choose graphics card first, then a screen that works with that card

I don't think that's true, a monitor will outlast a video card by years and years. The difference between G-sync and Adaptive Sync is that if people start buying monitors with Adaptive Sync Nvidia will start supporting them. Everybody wins. (except Nvidia's bean counters)

Re:Proprietary

[Anonymous Coward]

All that matters to me is that Minesweeper is now in sync. Have you played it without sync technology? It's uncivilized!!

What is this minesweeper you talk about? I looked on Steam, but cant find anything.

Please dont tell me this is some ancient analog card game or something...

This fantastic movie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHY8NKj3RKs

Re:Proprietary

[Twinbee]

So......... What are the differences between GSync and Adaptive Sync? Other than proprietariliness, is one better than the other qualitatively?

Re:Proprietary

[Anonymous Coward]

History shows that if proprietary solution A Just Works and open solution B doesn't, people won't care about openness and will use A. Not saying it's good or wise in the long term but it is true. It requires an uncommon level of commitment to an abstract ideal to tolerate something not working right every time you use it for the sake of that ideal.

That being said, nVidia have for many years done pretty damn well supporting Linux. How many other makers of top-end (non-server) professional equipment can you stick their card into your Linux box, install a driver they provide, and have every feature work at full speed out of the box? If all hardware were as easy to setup as nVidia cards (graphics and Tesla coprocessor both) I'd have no job to do.

Re:Proprietary

[epyT-R]

Yeah but those practices don't include catching exceptions in their video drivers.

Re:Proprietary

[Anonymous Coward]

Completely wrong.

Re:Proprietary

[Anonymous Coward]

No, the problem is this is shitty technology, both in nvidia guise and amd guise.
It screws up cutting edge technologies like temporal anti-aliasing and makes developers even more lazy about delivering steady framerates.
It is exactly the wrong kind of development that will hinder progress for years.
It's a way of hiding the timing puke that comes out of a-synchronous engines and it does a reasonable job of it so we will be stuck with these shitty engines for years.

Re:Proprietary

[serviscope_minor]

Minesweeper? I can tell you're not a REAL gamer. The REAL gamers install the entertainment pack and play skifree.

You haven't seen anything until you've got eaten by a yeti in 4k with perfect synchronisation.

Re:Proprietary

[aliquis]

My 8600m GT may have been broken too I guess.

Anyway they have Phys-X, better OpenGL drivers, more OS support, lower power usage, (alternative methods for anti-aliasing and lighting too I believe but I don't know what AMD have there) and G-sync. Better proprietary drivers. Still not at least as good open ones is a fair thing to say?

AMD have Mantle and Adaptive-Sync and .. ? Worse drivers even though their open ones may be better than NvidiaÂs open ones.

Mantle I suppose will be pretty irrelevant vs new DirectX 12 and OpenGL.
Just as G-sync should be allowed to become irrelevant if Adaptive-Sync let you make the same thing in a standard way.

Just suck that Nvidia is big and common enough that they may get away with not supporting it and do their own thing :(

Re:Proprietary

[Anonymous Coward]

AdaptiveSync is part of the VESA standard. If they want to be able to claim compliance they have to support it now.

It's been an optional extension forever, but with Displayport 1.2a and up it's now mandatory, making any money spent on the sub par and over priced G-Sync panels irrelevant.

Re:Proprietary

[Anonymous Coward]

AdaptiveSync doesn't require the specialized hardware, just a Displayport 1.2a or newer monitor and GPU. Since the Displayport 1.3 spec is also now out expect that to be where the next gen hardware to be for 60Hz+ 4K and support for resolutions up to 8K. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort#1.3

Re:Proprietary

[Anonymous Coward]

Wrong, AMD's FreeSync was just their marketing name for when this VESA tech, that was an optional part of the VESA standard was used on various AMD powered laptops.

Nvidia's G-Sync requires specialized hardware to be put into th monitor for it to work.

With Displayport 1.2a support for AdaptiveSync is now required, as well as it is required on the already released DP1.3 spec, which the industry will be jumping straight to so as to allow for 4K at 60Hz+ and resolutions u to 8K. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort#1.3

$799 for a 4K 28" panel is a PREMIUM price???

[HaeMaker]

That is a really good price for 4K. I guess you are comparing it to 1080p, but since the article and your post was about adding G-SYNC to a 4K panel, I'm not sure why you'd do that.

Re:$799 for a 4K 28" panel is a PREMIUM price???

[Anonymous Coward]

That is a really good price for 4K. I guess you are comparing it to 1080p, but since the article and your post was about adding G-SYNC to a 4K panel, I'm not sure why you'd do that.

I bought a Seiki 50" 4k for $699. It's been as low as $399 since then. 30hz at 4k, but still very nice as a monitor. The 55" does 4k@60.

Re:$799 for a 4K 28" panel is a PREMIUM price???

[Anonymous Coward]

... except that it's from Acer, so you know it's not going to work well or at least not for long.

Re:$799 for a 4K 28" panel is a PREMIUM price???

[MojoKid]

The note was versus "standard 28-inch panels"... not 4K. Yes, this is a solid price for a 4K 60Hz panel, with or without G-Sync. However, you can get standard 28-inch panels for a lot less and even Samsung, Dell and Asus non-G-Sync 4K panels for as little as $429 to about $600 now.

Re:$799 for a 4K 28" panel is a PREMIUM price???

[Anonymous Coward]

Acer is a "name brand." Seiki is not. Case closed.

Re:$799 for a 4K 28" panel is a PREMIUM price???

[rgmoore]

Yes, that's a premium price for a 28" 4K display. Dell is currently selling theirs for $430. Note, though, that the relatively inexpensive 28" 4K displays are using TN rather than IPS, which is a big reason they're relatively cheap.

Re:$799 for a 4K 28" panel is a PREMIUM price???

[Anonymous Coward]

Acer is shit. If I'm going to buy shit, I'd rather end up with shit from a no-name brand at a fraction of the cost than shit from a name brand.

Re:$799 for a 4K 28" panel is a PREMIUM price???

[Anonymous Coward]

That is a really good price for 4K.

Not really.
Dell P2815Q: $429, 30Hz only.
Iiyama B2888UHSU: $489, 60Hz
Samsung U28D590: $499, 60Hz
AOC u2868P: $499, 60Hz
Acer CB280HK: $529, 60Hz
Asus PB287Q: $549, 60Hz
Acer XB280HK: $799, 60Hz, Gsync

All of these sport the exact same CMO TN panel/backlight/t-con (M280DGJ-L30).

"...quirks with Windows"

[willoughby]

Gee, what a surprise.

Re:"...quirks with Windows"

[war4peace]

Compared to "it doesn't work at all under Linux"...

Re:"...quirks with Windows"

[3.1415926535]

Except it does: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.p...

Re:"...quirks with Windows"

[Anonymous Coward]

We will now, of course, see your post modded to +5 while idiot GP is modded down to "-1, factually wrong" of course.

Oh, for a "-1, factually wrong" mod...

Finally...

[Anonymous Coward]

I can now watch porn and see the makeup on their genitals.

Re:Finally...

[Anonymous Coward]

I can now watch porn and see the poorly-concealed herpetic lesions on their genitals.

FTFY

$799 for a 4K 28

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a TN display.

Keep it.

Re:$799 for a 4K 28

[meustrus]

Aren't all gaming displays TN because the better technologies still introduce more lag?

Re:$799 for a 4K 28

[Anonymous Coward]

The lag on IPS panels can be mitigated by getting a display with as few inputs as possible to reduce the input lag, theres some out there with just a single DVI or Displaport in and by "overclocking" the refresh rate of the panel, some can handle 120Hz, but most wll drop frames at that refresh rate. however most will hold well in the 80Hz range with ease. Have a look at some reviews, though I'd wait for the Displaport 1.3 kit to hit first before upgrading.
https://teksyndicate.com/videos/korean-219-montitor-crossover-290m-29-lg-ips-ultra-wide
https://teksyndicate.com/videos/korean-monitors-x-star-dp2710-led-multi-first-fsm-270yv-shimian-etc

color gamut

[Anonymous Coward]

All I want is a 35"+ 4k display with a 60hz refresh rate for under $300. Is that so much to ask?

Personally I want more displays to support the Adobe RGB (or better) colour gamut.

Proprietary

[Anonymous Coward]

Who cares?

You can't use VESA Adaptive Sync without an LVDS interface, so it won't work on external monitors. It's only useful for laptops. I know it's part of the display port spec, but it still won't work on external monitors.

Fuck Acer.

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously. This thing is gonna burn out within a month. If it even ships without immediately noticeable faults.

Slashvertisement

[dutchwhizzman]

Come on since when does a price for a stupid TN panel matter?

What Speaker?

[Anonymous Coward]

I miss the built in speakers, they never sounded great, but played audio without putting big ugly blocks on my desk. I put on headphones for music. What speaker could you use with this that would not look really ugly?