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Boeing Told To Replace Cockpit Screens Affected By Wi-Fi

Rambo Tribble writes The Federal Aviation Administration has ordered Boeing to replace Honeywell-built cockpit screens that could be affected by wi-fi transmissions. Additionally, the FAA has expressed concerns that other frequencies, such as used by air surveillance and weather radar, could disrupt the displays. The systems involved report airspeed, altitude, heading and pitch and roll to the crew, and the agency stated that a failure could cause a crash. Meanwhile, the order is said to affect over 1,300 aircraft, and some airlines are balking, since the problem has never been seen in operation, that the order presents "a high, and unnecessary, financial burden on operators".

13 of 142 comments (clear)

  1. Change is in the air by Cabriel · · Score: 3, Funny

    Queue the many certifications that will pop up for current screens suddenly claiming they aren't affected by wifi to any meaningful degree.

    Is that too cynical?

  2. Wow by morgauxo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They are ordering that a manufacturer actually do something to make it's product safe rather than just ban wifi? It's not April 1st! Where did this new FAA come from?

  3. Same conversation at GM a while back. by Last_Available_Usern · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Pretty sure this is the same kind of conversation that was had at GM before the fatalities and subsequent massive recall took place. Cut your losses Boeing and fix this now.

    1. Re: Same conversation at GM a while back. by jd · · Score: 3, Interesting

      There have been cases of Boeing 777s and modernized 737s developing unexplained system faults. Do not be so sure that RFI was not to blame. These have had much worse reliability than other Boeing models in recent years and as no other faults have been offered by Boeing as explanation, it is illogical to simply dismiss the one fault we know about as unrelated to the unusual number of abnormalities and crashes specific to these two models.

      Obviously, Boeing has no interest in being honest about the problems they know about, be they software or hardware. Nor are they likely to Open Source anything, so there is no possibility of scrutiny by an independent party.

      Simple logic (and self-preservation) says they have an unattributed defect capable of causing catastrophic failure, and a defect that can potentially cause catastrophic failure, therefore fixing the defect is essential.

      The cost? The cost is insignificant. Boeing is hardly poor and is quite capable of covering the airlines' cost as this is a manufacturing defect. The airlines? They're making enough money that they can afford riots on board when seats are tilted. Besides, this is the cost of doing business. There's a price for bad decisions, all other sectors (except, apparently, banks) are expected to take the rough with the smooth. If several go bust because they chose unwisely, that's how life in business goes. You pay your money, you take your choice. Besides, they'd still be doing better than the German in Last Crusade.

      If I went into business and made bad choices, would you be telling people to ignore my expenses? No? Good. If I'm not fit for purpose as a businessman, I've no business expecting support. So why should Ryanair, a notoriously incompetent company, deserve better? Because they're too big to fail? Not a good reason.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
  4. Re:Why is Boeing responsible? by Stewie241 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I think that's between Boeing and Honeywell, no? Honeywell didn't supply the jets with the displays in them - Boeing did. Now if the displays weren't up to the spec under which they were sold, then Boeing probably has a good case to go back to Honeywell and demand compensation. On the other hand, if being unaffected by wifi was never part of the specs or the deal, then that's Boeing's fault and they should have to eat it.

    Either way, the airlines should have to deal with Boeing and not with Honeywell.

  5. Faraday Cage / Tempest by RedLeg · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Seriously, at this point we are worried about EMI to individual avionics components / systems in the cockpit from wi-fi in the cabin?

    First, I would hope that the avionics themselves were shielded and tested before deployment and use. I mean, we don't want the altimeter interfering with the artificial horizon, do we? (stupid, simple, but real example)

    Second, the whole cockpit and supporting avionics and other fight critical systems are in an enclosed conductive vessel, ie the cockpit and support area. It's a Faraday cage within a larger Faraday cage (the aircraft), so Coulomb's law should apply and mitigate this theoretical threat. Wi-Fi (bluetooth and the rest) should not reach the cockpit and instruments from the cabin unless the cockpit door is open. We all know how often that happens these days....

    Polite language: red herring

    Otherwise: I call BullShite

    -Red

    1. Re:Faraday Cage / Tempest by TubeSteak · · Score: 4, Informative

      Polite language: red herring

      Otherwise: I call BullShite

      Am I really the only one who looked at the actual FAA Directive?

      SUMMARY:
      We are adopting a new airworthiness directive (AD) for all The Boeing
      Company Model 737-600, -700, -700C, -800, -900, and -900ER series airplanes, and
      Model 777 airplanes. This AD was prompted by testing reports on certain Honeywell
      phase 3 display units (DUs). These DUs exhibited susceptibility
      to radio frequency emissions in WiFi
      frequency bands at radiated power levels below the levels that the
      displays are required to tolerate for certification of WiFi system installations.

      Clarification of Cause of Unsafe Condition
      The cause of the unsafe condition stated in the Discussion section of this AD is a
      known susceptibility of the Phase 3 DUs to RF transmissions inside and outside of the
      airplane. This susceptibility has been verified to exist in a range of RF spectrum (mobile
      satellite communications, cell phones, air surveillance and
      weather radar, and other systems), and is not limited to WiFi transmissions.

      Request to Withdraw the NPRM
      (78 FR 58487, September 24, 2013)

      [Virgin Australia] VOZ stated that during testing of the WiFi inflight entertainment system on the
      VOZ Model 737NG fleet, it noted that the DU blanking occurred only when the WiFi
      radiated power source (set-up in the flight deck) was increased to a high level. VOZ also
      stated that under normal operating conditions of the WiFi radiated power, there was no
      blanking of the DU, but interference was present only at a certain frequency. [...]

      Request to Disclose Underlying Data
      in Support of the NPRM (78 FR 58487,September 24, 2013)

      [...]

      The susceptibility of phase 3 DUs to RF transmissions was initially identified
      during a WiFi STC installation by an operator and a WiFi vendor and reported to the
      FAA. As a result of this discovery, we performed a risk assessment for in-service
      airplanes equipped with phase 3 DUs using our established COS process, which
      determined that an AD action was warranted for this issue. In addition, Boeing did an
      independent safety review and also determined that the DU blanking was a safety issue
      using its own risk assessment process.

      I only got half way through the 23 page directive.
      Feel free to give it a full examination.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
  6. We've heard this before. by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 4, Interesting

    some airlines are balking, since the problem has never been seen in operation, that the order presents "a high, and unnecessary, financial burden on operators".

    Several years before 9/11, pilots were asking that the cockpits be made more secure by installing a $200 lock on the pilot's side of the door giving access to the cockpit. Airlines complained that it would be too expensive. So, thanks to the airlines being too cheap to do something that made sense, more than 3,000 people died, and we now have the TSA going where no man has gone before.

    --
    "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    1. Re:We've heard this before. by Solandri · · Score: 3

      Several years before 9/11, pilots were asking that the cockpits be made more secure by installing a $200 lock on the pilot's side of the door giving access to the cockpit.

      Do you have a reference for that? I find it hard to believe because when the FAA implemented the sterile cockpit rule after recurring accidents where crew distraction was a contributing cause, the pilot's union fought it tooth and nail. You're now saying the pilots suddenly want to be isolated from the cabin?

      Also, the predominant cost of adding equipment to an aircraft isn't the purchase price. It's the fuel burn cost. An airliner flying 1750 miles burns about 5 cents worth of fuel for every additional pound it carries. If that beefier lock weighed 1 pound, at 3 flights a day, 330 operational days per year, and 20 years in service, the fuel cost to carry that lock is $990.

      If you factor in the cost of a (say) 20 pound $1000 steel-reinforced door to go along with the lock (after all what good is a $200 lock if the door has 35 cent hinges), you're now talking about ~$22,000 in additional fuel per aircraft. This is the reason why aircraft manufacturers and airlines are willing to spend thousands of dollars extra on materials which shave just a few pounds from an aircraft's weight.

  7. Almost completely unrelated... by lsommerer · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The LED lightbulbs in my house cause interference with my iPhone. It only happens when the phone is too close to the bulbs (less than 2 feet as I recall). I know this isn't really surprising. The thing that struck me as odd was that the interference pattern showed up on photos as well as on the screen. Great Value bulbs caused more interference than G.E. bulbs.

  8. Re:Surprisingly by bobbied · · Score: 3, Informative

    Sudden Outbreak of Common Sense (tm)

    The FAA does this ALL the time actually. They routinely issue AD's for many maintenance and operational issues discovered on aircraft. Sometimes these AD's come with short deadlines (you will fix this before the next flight) and sometimes they give you years (like this one giving 5 years). The FAA does this all the time, so this is NOT new.

    --
    "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  9. Re:Surprisingly by tlhIngan · · Score: 4, Interesting

    (Is it really a crash risk? That I don't know.)

    Potentially as one of the faults is "Display stops working". Whether that means it goes blank, or stops updating (i.e., frozen) is unclear.

    Now, it's one reason why there is redundancy - if one display crashes, the PFD (primary flight display, i.e., flight instruments) can be reverted to the other screen (normally showing navigational information). If THAT doesn't work the PFD can be shown on the central displays (usually showing engine and other information), again, two of each.

    And the co-pilot has another pair of displays as well that get their information from a redundant system, so 6 displays in total, which can get their information from two different independent sources.

    Oh yeah, there's also basic backup instruments too.

    Is it a problem? Yes. Is it fatal? Well, you have to be pretty damn unlucky to get all displays to lock up and the backup instruments as well. So a small chance, especially if the crew is inexperienced.

  10. Re:Why is Boeing responsible? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    I have inside knowledge of this issue, and it is actually available as a public Advisory Directive http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAD.nsf/0/c2bcf2b2a4ea336886257d64006136e5/$FILE/2014-20-06.pdf

    The issue was brought to light during WiFi testing (which uses a 4W transmitter) and my inside source says they got the transmit antenna closer than specified to the display Unit, which then blanked out. Actual WiFi would never cause the issue, but due to the blanking during testing further investigation revealed that the Display Unit did not meet the HIRF (High Intensity Radiated Field) specs, which has been a requirement for cockpit displays since the '80s.