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UK Copyright Reforms Legalize Back-Ups, Protect Parody

rastos1 writes A law has come into effect that permits UK citizens to make copies of CDs, MP3s, DVDs, Blu-rays and e-books. Consumers are allowed to keep the duplicates on local storage or in the cloud. While it is legal to make back-ups for personal use, it remains an offence to share the data with friends or family. Users are not allowed to make recordings of streamed music or video from Spotify and Netflix, even if they subscribe to the services. Thirteen years after iTunes launched, it is now legal to use it to rip CDs in the UK. Just as interesting are the ways that the new UK law explicitly, if imperfectly, protects parody.

68 comments

  1. FC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah Buddy

  2. Also interesting for what they missed out by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This is progress of a sort, though it has been a very long road with many false starts.

    Even so, it's interesting to see what they didn't include. For example, notice that almost none of the changes affect software at all, nor do they help at all with content that is protected by technical measures for DRM purposes.

    In other words, those who want to remain legal are still at the mercy of content providers doing things that may or may not work reliably, may or may not interfere with the normal operation of computers/mobile devices, may or may not cause huge problems with restoring access to purchased content if such devices fail, etc.

    Don't be fooled. A lot of the apparent improvements in this new law are immediately negated by technical measures.

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    1. Re:Also interesting for what they missed out by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      No, you and your community are on your own for circumventing technical measures. At least it's not illegal to do so.

    2. Re:Also interesting for what they missed out by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 4, Informative

      At least it's not illegal to [circumvent technical measures].

      Yes, it still is. That's the point. Almost all of the theoretical benefits of these changes can immediately be nullified, because all the content provider has to do is apply technical measures and then breaking those measures remains against the law even if the copy would otherwise now be legal.

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    3. Re:Also interesting for what they missed out by Macthorpe · · Score: 1

      Is it though? I'm not a lawyer, but the BBC article suggests the opposite - that because it explicitly doesn't stop you from circumventing DRM, there will be even more pressure to create DRM that prevents format shifting to protect the bottom line.

      Remember this is the UK, not the US - the DMCA doesn't exist here.

      --
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    4. Re:Also interesting for what they missed out by Carewolf · · Score: 1

      At least it's not illegal to [circumvent technical measures].

      Yes, it still is. That's the point. Almost all of the theoretical benefits of these changes can immediately be nullified, because all the content provider has to do is apply technical measures and then breaking those measures remains against the law even if the copy would otherwise now be legal.

      This is not America, there is no DMCA. Though there is a murky EU rule saying otherwise to placate the US, that rule hasn't held up in court and even if it did, any clearer law saying something is specifically allowed would overrule it.

    5. Re:Also interesting for what they missed out by OliWarner · · Score: 2

      What would you have? Just make DRM illegal on purchase-model sales? It won't change a thing. That whole model is being killed off.

      The problem is that all content providers (even software) are moving to a model where you're not buying your license, you're just renting it. These sorts of arrangements are the sole good commercial reason for DRM but as we're seeing, it's ushering in a new wave of anti-interoperability. Yesterday's DRM-ripping problems won't be the problem tomorrow, it's the good old favourites of vendor lock-in, price gouging and tariff manipulation.

      Perhaps all content provision needs to be regulated like a utility. Unbundled so the services that get it to you aren't competing for different content.

    6. Re:Also interesting for what they missed out by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 3, Informative

      This is not America, there is no DMCA.

      What does America have to do with anything? This is about the UK, I live in the UK, and I'm talking about UK law. Here we have the EUCD, which is hardly "murky" on this matter, and the relevant provisions have been incorporated into UK law for around a decade now.

      When do you think this hasn't held up in court? There have been various cases elsewhere in Europe where things like mod chips have survived a court challenge in various ways. However, in the UK, the judiciary seems to have taken a very consistent and pro-rightsholder view in such cases so far.

      Also, what "clearer law saying something is specifically allowed" do you think applies here? The changes taking effect today have little to say about TPMs.

      Perhaps you should read the Intellectual Property Office guidance (PDF) about this issue. Pay particular attention to the FAQ on page 4, where for example it notes:

      However, you should note that media, such as DVDs and e-books, can still be protected by technology which physically prevents copying and circumvention of such technology remains illegal.

      Or just go straight to reading the changes themselves, which are written in legalese but clear enough for a non-lawyer to understand.

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    7. Re:Also interesting for what they missed out by PPH · · Score: 4, Interesting

      technical measures for DRM purposes.

      DRM? I thought it was just corrupted data* on the original media. I downloaded this nice piece of software that appears to recover the data quite effectively and made my legal copy.

      *It must have been corrupted. It wouldn't play on my Linux system.

      --
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    8. Re:Also interesting for what they missed out by davester666 · · Score: 1

      Of course, in exchange for this largess, copyright terms have been extended to the creator's lifetime+2,000,000 years.

      Because otherwise, there is no incentive to create.

      --
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    9. Re:Also interesting for what they missed out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And that means, this isn't really progress at all. Or, it's negative progress.

      Because in politicians' minds, they've made concessions. They've resolved the whines of the anti-big-copyright lobby, and they can go back to smugly ignoring us for the next two elections at least. And since those concessions can be trivially nullified by publishers, they're pretty much worthless to us.

      We've shot our bolt, and missed. That's what we get for not organising our lobbying.

    10. Re:Also interesting for what they missed out by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      We've shot our bolt, and missed. That's what we get for not organising our lobbying.

      Frankly, I'm not sure we ever stood a chance. If you read the "debates" in the House of Lords and with senior civil servants that have taken place in recent months, they are among the most one-sided politics I have ever seen on any subject. Several of the prominent members of the Lords who speak on the subject came from Big Media backgrounds or have continuing interests in the area. I recall noticing one prominent figure openly acknowledging that their primary concern with the whole issue was the promotion of "UK PLC".

      In contrast, hardly ever have I seen anyone who walks the corridors of power raise the question of whether copyright and the associated restrictions were morally justifiable as a statutory limitation on freedoms that would otherwise exist, or suggest that perhaps the existing implementation of the law might have been excessive or that the proposed changes might not go far enough, or give the slightest consideration to the negative effects of copyright on over 60 million people living in the UK, or acknowledge that existing copyright laws have been coerced and sidelined to further the interests of rightsholders at the expense of the public. There are a few rare exceptions to this, even including one or two of the Lords who have spoken, but they are barely a drop in the ocean.

      This was never a debate, because one side wasn't even invited. Whether that was a deliberate policy or merely an indication of the ignorance and one-sided experience of almost everyone in this field who operates at a senior government level we cannot easily tell, but the effect is the same either way.

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    11. Re:Also interesting for what they missed out by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      It still is in UK. That's the problem.

    12. Re:Also interesting for what they missed out by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      EUCD is NOT a law. It's a directive. Directives are meant as general framework for local parliaments to work off to make actual laws.

      As a result, it is in no shape or form binding for individual citizenry.

    13. Re:Also interesting for what they missed out by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      As a result, [the EUCD] is in no shape or form binding for individual citizenry.

      But the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 as amended is.

      As I have mentioned elsewhere, people have already been sued under this law in the UK, and they have lost.

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    14. Re:Also interesting for what they missed out by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Of course. That's what local state laws are about. They are meant to be binding for citizenry.

      European Directives are not binding to citizens, they are binding to legislators of each state. The idea is that directive creates a certain base set of rules, and local legislative branch interprets those rules in light of local culture and implements them in local, binding law.

  3. :O by Jonifico · · Score: 1

    *New pirate bay servers are opened in the UK*

  4. Coming soon by click2005 · · Score: 0

    www.PirateFlix.co.uk - a parody of a media distribution service.

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    1. Re:Coming soon by Thanshin · · Score: 1

      I don't think the public needs any more parodies of media distribution services.

  5. been legal in US too. by neghvar1 · · Score: 1

    It has been legal to make personal backups here in the US for decades. They way big media circumvented that law was by lobbying for the DMCA and once passed, encrypt everything. Thus nullifying the law for the consumers.

    1. Re:been legal in US too. by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      Bit-for-bit backups might be possible, but I'd argue that format shifted copies/backups should be allowed also. Say I own a DVD and I rip the movie to MP4. I put that file on my own personal server, on my own network. No one outside my network can access these files. Finally, I stream that movie (and others) to my TV.

      Have I broken the law?

      In the US, the answer would be "Yes." By breaking the DRM, I've broken the law even though I haven't passed the file on to anyone. However, it's unlikely that I would be prosecuted for doing this unless I did something like showed people how to do this multiple times in a very public manner. (e.g. I had a very popular YouTube channel where I showed people what tools to use and what steps were involved.) Even then, it's not certain I'd be sued so long as I'm not sharing these files with other people.

      This is where the law is messed up. Yes, sharing these rips with other people is against the law. We can argue whether this is right or not, but let's accept it for the moment. Why do we need another law that says merely creating these files - before you've even shared them out - is illegal also? It's just another charge to tack onto someone who was caught sharing. If I was in charge, I'd keep it illegal to share copyrighted content without permission (albeit with drastically changed penalties) but I'd make it legal to break DRM for personal use.

      --
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    2. Re:been legal in US too. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      please share some links on how to backup DVDs and BluRays and play them from my server. i have found several from google that just end up being "buy this program", or using some strange method that doesn't play, etc. thanks

  6. Protecting parody? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Well, that legitimises UKIP, then.

    1. Re:Protecting parody? by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      I think self parody has always been legal.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  7. EUCD is (approximately) DMCA for the UK by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 2

    That's not how I read the BBC article, but if that is what it meant then it is wrong.

    We have the EUCD here, which in somewhat similar to the DMCA. In fact, it is arguably stricter in this particular area, because it covers not only access control mechanisms but also copy protection mechanisms. The relevant details of the EU directive have been incorporated into UK law for roughly a decade.

    Rightsholders can therefore pursue not only those circumventing such technical measures but also those making or distributing the equipment used to do so, and in some cases this can fall under criminal rather than civil law. Moreover, this has actually happened, for example in the Sony PS2 mod chip case.

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    1. Re:EUCD is (approximately) DMCA for the UK by beelsebob · · Score: 1

      In the UK, any more recent law that contradicts an older one is deemed to be correct. In this case, if this law says you can make backups, and the (older) EUCD says you can't, this law wins out.

    2. Re:EUCD is (approximately) DMCA for the UK by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But the law doesn't say, for example, that you have a legally protected right to make back-ups. It just says that making back-ups under certain conditions doesn't infringe copyright, which is a completely different statement.

      The guys who negotiated these laws are not new at this. These changes have been in negotiation and consultation for several years, and despite the apparent wishful thinking of many posting in this Slashdot discussion, they didn't get to that process and then accidentally give away the keys to the kingdom without noticing.

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    3. Re:EUCD is (approximately) DMCA for the UK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      if this law says you can make backups, and the (older) EUCD says you can't, this law wins out.

      From my limited understanding (read: all I know came from this thread), the EUCD doesn't say you cannot make backups, it says you cannot circumvent the DRM. So unless this new law says "you may circumvent DRM if such actions are required in order to create a backup", shouldn't the old EUCD law still stand?

    4. Re:EUCD is (approximately) DMCA for the UK by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 2
      Actually, this is not a new UK law - it's a European Union directive, so it applies to the whole of the European Union.

      However, it's still more restrictive on what can and cannot be parodied:

      If a parody conveys a discriminatory message (for example, by replacing the original characters with people wearing veils and people of colour), the holders of the rights to the work parodied have, in principle, a legitimate interest in ensuring that their work is not associated with such a message.

      Certain really funny scenes in Spaceballs were just outlawed. "There goes the neighborhood."

      However, when looking at the text of the actual law, it doesn't make any mention of discrimination in the list of changes. Neither does the 11-page explanatory notes section. My guess? Someone added their own interpretation, not realizing that the old test of "fair dealing" is modified by this new directive.

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    5. Re:EUCD is (approximately) DMCA for the UK by Xest · · Score: 1

      But what exactly is the point?

      No one was prosecuted for doing this even when it was completely illegal, now it's legal if you're not circumventing DRM, but still no one is going to be prosecuted are they? The police have better things to do and it's too cost prohibitive and largely impossible for the industry to do it themselves.

      So whatever the change it's completely meaningless all the same.

      What I'm intrigued about though is the talk of not being able to share with your family, how does this apply within a household if family or friends live together? I can buy a music CD and can't lend it to my partner to play elsewhere in the same house?

      What if we go to the shop and put a fiver each towards a £10 CD, who owns it? If the shop has allowed us to make a joint transaction then how is the owner defined - statutory consumer rights on what the shop sold us would normally overrule civil issues of non-commercial copyright infringement? Presumably if it was jointly owned however what's to stop someone putting up a website that allows 1000 people to contribute 1p to the price of a CD? is it jointly owned by all 1000? I'm intrigued to know how this works legally.

      As I say it all seems academic regardless and no one's getting prosecuted over this stuff anyway, but I'm intrigued to know what the limits are.

    6. Re:EUCD is (approximately) DMCA for the UK by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      EUCD is a rough framework with which each member state's legislation must conform with. It allows for significant variance, ranging from Spain's "almost everything is allowed" to laws far more restrictive than US ones.

    7. Re:EUCD is (approximately) DMCA for the UK by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      And as I wrote before, the relevant parts were incorporated into UK law about a decade ago.

      You might not like it, but that is the law in the UK today, and there is really nothing ambiguous or open to significant interpretation about it.

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    8. Re:EUCD is (approximately) DMCA for the UK by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      The legal situation seems quite clear in your example. If lots of people collectively own a CD, then they collectively own that copy of whatever data is on it. Of course, only one of them can actually play that CD at once without making additional copies.

      The new rules about using cloud storage are analogous. You can transfer your copy of some work to a cloud hosting service for your own convenience, but you aren't then allowed to share access to that library with others in the cloud equivalent of making lots of copies of that one CD so everyone can play the music at once without paying for a full copy themselves.

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    9. Re:EUCD is (approximately) DMCA for the UK by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Devil is in the details. Which interpretations of relevant parts were incorporated?

      Spain for example, was very allowing, whereas my home country, Finland, was not. We happened to have an former model as a culture minister who was massively lobbied by what was essentially her old employers (content creators) and we got an extremely tight interpretation.

      Yet bot laws, in spite of being complete opposites on several key points, like allowing private sharing between friends over internet, are fully compatible with EUCD. Because that's what directives typically are - general framework sets. Specifics, often KEY specifics are left to each country's legislators.

    10. Re:EUCD is (approximately) DMCA for the UK by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      We are talking specifically about the UK in this discussion. It's right there in the title.

      In the UK, circumvention of technical measures is illegal even if it is otherwise legal to make the copy itself. There is really no ambiguity about any of this. It is fully enshrined in the laws of each relevant jurisdiction within the UK, it has been for years, it has been tested in court and it stood up, and nothing in the reforms we're discussing changes the situation.

      All the discussion about DMCA and EUCD and what happens in other European countries is just a distraction from these basic facts and does not change them.

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    11. Re:EUCD is (approximately) DMCA for the UK by beelsebob · · Score: 1

      Actually, this is not a new UK law - it's a European Union directive, so it applies to the whole of the European Union.

      No, what's UK law is the various sets of laws in the UK that implement the EU directive. Note –the EU has no power at all to enforce laws in the UK, they just make treaties asking various member states to implement laws matching up to directives.

      The new law is the one saying that you're not violating copyright if you're backing something up. That one takes precedence over the one implementing the EU directive.

  8. Yeah, yeah, yeah... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Old men with no understanding of anything make more rules which nobody will take any notice of.

    Whatever...

  9. Comparison by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What about the Betamax case in the U.S.?

    Is there a difference between timeshifting something on cable television and timeshifting something on Netflix? Although in the latter (and On Demand too), it's requested footage. Which brings up the question: Are we only allowed to timeshift if it's a live feed/stream of something?

  10. What would I have instead? by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    What would you have?

    Personally, in an ideal world but one where we accept the basic principle of copyright as a reasonable economic tool? I'd have:

    1. 100% effective DRM. (Yes, really, but read on for what balances it.)

    2. Compulsory escrow for any work being distributed commercially with DRM applied, and criminal sanctions for those who fail to provide the unprotected content to the relevant regulatory authority.

    3. Much shorter copyright durations, probably varying by industry/type of work and dictated by what creates a reasonable commercial incentive but not an excessive one in each context, which I suspect would be around 5-10 years in most cases.

    4. Original creators keeping the master copyright to any work they do, so big media distributors can only ever have exclusive licensing for relatively short periods (maybe 1-2 years) after which they have to renegotiate with the original creators if they want to renew their licence.

    In short, I would give the creators primary control for the duration of the copyright, I would make big distribution channels into a market that is subservient to creators rather than the other way around, and then within that structure, members of the general public get a clear choice to enjoy a work immediately on whatever terms the market will support (one-off purchase, rental, library subscription, etc.) or to wait a significant but not absurd length of time until the work enters the public domain forever.

    In shorter, I'd screw the distributor middlemen, make copyright back into something that provides a reasonable incentive to create and share good works, and make the default legal position that everyone can enjoy everything once that incentive has done its job.

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    1. Re:What would I have instead? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, you support the whole artificial scarcity nonsense.

    2. Re:What would I have instead? by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      Think about the content that is created today through the work of skilled, creative people. We're talking thousands of person-years for blockbuster movies, AAA games, top TV shows. Just presenting TV news and weather bulletins takes a not-so-small army of people working 24/7. For smaller scale works like, say, academic textbooks, we're still looking at a whole team of people working over several years.

      The question is, is that kind of content naturally abundant? If society truly would continue to benefit from the same quantity and quality of such work even if those skilled, creative people didn't get paid, then you're right and the scarcity is artificial. Otherwise, we're not talking about artificial scarcity, we're just talking about economics.

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    3. Re:What would I have instead? by Wootery · · Score: 1

      But some of the problems of DRM remain.

      Suppose I make a program for blind users, that enables voice-commanded play/selection of audio, for music and/or audiobooks. The DRM used by Audible and Spotify prevent my app from being able to play their content, and (to my knowledge) neither Audible nor Spotify cater to blind users themselves.

    4. Re: What would I have instead? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1. your post
      2. ???
      3. profit

    5. Re:What would I have instead? by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      That is a fair point, but I think it's orthogonal to the main issue. There are already laws about accessibility and discrimination for various other commercial activities, and I see no reason similar rules could not be extended to cover provision of creative content within the kind of scheme I described.

      As a curious aside, technically there is already a provision for raising problems caused by DRM with the government in the UK. However, it's so obscure and awkward that I've never heard of anyone actually trying to use it.

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    6. Re:What would I have instead? by gnupun · · Score: 1

      3. Much shorter copyright durations, probably varying by industry/type of work and dictated by what creates a reasonable commercial incentive but not an excessive one in each context, which I suspect would be around 5-10 years in most cases.

      Lulz, if that's the case then I and many other people are simply going to wait for the copyrights to expire and get the books, music and movies for free. The quality of art is steadily deteriorating anyway. So 10-year old art is very likely better than anything modern and we get that for free. Please tell your lawmarkes to change the laws.

    7. Re:What would I have instead? by JesseMcDonald · · Score: 1

      If society truly would continue to benefit from the same quantity and quality of such work even if those skilled, creative people didn't get paid, then you're right and the scarcity is artificial. Otherwise, we're not talking about artificial scarcity, we're just talking about economics.

      No, we're still talking about artificial scarcity. Copies are naturally superabundant, even though the supply of original works is scarce. What you're attempting to argue is whether making the copies artificially scarce might be justified as a way to subsidize the creation of originals.

      The part about "even if those skilled, creative people didn't get paid" is a red herring; so long as there is a demand for new creative works, of course they're going to get paid. On the other hand, I suspect that the demand for new works is not nearly so high as the demand for copies of existing works, and producing new works is expensive while distributing copies is akin to printing money. Copyright shifts the balance in favor of new works, disrupting supply and demand and protecting distributors from competition from their own back-catalogs. Without it, new works will continue to be produced, but fewer of them—more in line with the actual demand. In exchange, everyone would have free access to all the creative works which have already been produced, enough to fill many lifetimes. For those looking for something new, there are a variety of ways to fund its production other than copyright.

      --
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    8. Re:What would I have instead? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Think about the content that is created today through the work of skilled, creative people. We're talking thousands of person-years for blockbuster movies, AAA games, top TV shows. Just presenting TV news and weather bulletins takes a not-so-small army of people working 24/7. For smaller scale works like, say, academic textbooks, we're still looking at a whole team of people working over several years.

      The question is, is that kind of content naturally abundant?

      All existent content is naturally abundant when the cost of duplicating it is fractions of a cent.

      The real question is: "Are we better off with strict duplication restrictions?"

      I say no. Look at all the stuff on youtube to start. Most of it is crap, but some of it is good. Some of the good stuff is actually better than "professionally" produced stuff from ten years ago. Almost all of the new stuff is higher res than everything from 20 years ago so it's "better" on the technical level, which is where the majority of costs are today. Kids can make their own lightsaber special effects in HD. The good amateur CGI today borders the top of the line professional stuff from a decade or so ago. Green screening was a million dollars 30 years ago. You can get it at a decent electronics shop for $100 now.

      The barrier to entry has dropped to the point where anyone who wants to make a halfway decent movie can for a month of minimum wage income. We don't need to restrict 99.999% of content artificially to benefit the last 0.001%. If that means no LOTR Prequel#3, so be it. There are fans making that stuff and if there is demand, Amazon, Netflix or HBO will pick up the rights for a million or two if no one else wants it.

      There is more free content on the internet today than you, I or anyone else alive today can reasonably expect to live long enough to see it all. If I have to wait another ten years to see today's "big budget" effects in exchange for seeing everything else for free now? I'll make that trade.

    9. Re:What would I have instead? by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 2

      Lulz, if that's the case then I and many other people are simply going to wait for the copyrights to expire and get the books, music and movies for free.

      Of course you are, and I have no problem with that. Copyright wasn't supposed to be a mechanism for locking up culture indefinitely. As long as enough people still want things soon enough to pay for them at reasonable prices, creators can still make a decent return and will still create and share stuff, and that is what it's all about.

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    10. Re:What would I have instead? by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      No, we're still talking about artificial scarcity. Copies are naturally superabundant, even though the supply of original works is scarce.

      Right, but it's that scarcity that matters in this case, because that is the part that takes serious time and money to do. Copyright is just a way of amortizing those costs over a large user base who are only willing to contribute a small amount individually, such that expensive-to-create works are still viable. I would argue that having some economic model that allows this distribution of costs, whether copyright or something else, is clearly a good thing if we value the creation and distribution of high quality work.

      For those looking for something new, there are a variety of ways to fund its production other than copyright.

      Yes there are, and there are some interesting ideas there that might offer better alternative models in time. Moreover, as you say, there is a question of how much distributors artificially distort the markets using copyright; one of the more infamous examples is Disney's strategy of releasing a movie on disc for only a very limited time and then locking it back in the vault for years.

      Even so, right now, today, alternative funding models have yet to reach within about two orders of magnitude of funding what copyright does. Therefore, while copyright obviously has some undesirable properties, as an economic tool I claim it is currently the least bad model we have found.

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    11. Re:What would I have instead? by Wootery · · Score: 1

      I wasn't clear, but my intended point wasn't disabled access specifically, but that DRM necessarily disempowers the user.

      It will only play on supported devices, in ways they deem permissible. No support for Audible on your car? Hope you can get an old-fashioned audio feed from your Android to work, as there's no chance you'll get to use the controls built in to your steering wheel. Want to play on Linux? Hope you can wrestle Wine into playing ball.

      These issues are similar to those addressed more generally by Free Software.

      Your ideas address the oh dear they went bankrupt now I can never listen to my stuff ever again issue, but not the others. It's just a band-aid.

    12. Re:What would I have instead? by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      It's just a band-aid.

      Not really. If there is sufficient demand for something, the market would tend to provide it at a viable price. For more niche uses, it wouldn't, but that's always the deal when you go outside the mainstream with any technology.

      The difference in "my world" is that there would be a much shorter time limit on how long any sort of lock-in could last for. If anything, that should create a greater incentive to maximise availability via different channels as broadly and quickly as possible to gain the maximum commercial advantage from the limited-time opportunity. Creators and distributors would not be able to play the waiting game or lock people into very expensive payment schemes, because they would always be competing with the not-so-far-away alternative of completely free access, so it would almost inevitably be more profitable to promote more access sooner while it still brings in revenues for them.

      On the other hand, I simply don't subscribe to the "everything must be free" camp. It costs a lot to make good content, and someone has to pay for it. Moreover, it is abundantly clear that a lot of people aren't holding up their side of the deal, and that means some combination of the content providers and the other consumers who do pay for content are picking up the slack unfairly. So, want to play something on Linux? Get Linux to support my idealised bulletproof DRM and show there's enough of a market to justify any overheads in making the content available on that platform -- just like any other platform has to. Don't want to play by the same rules as everyone else? No problem, you aren't forced to, but unlike today you'll still get to enjoy the content within a relevant time frame after its statutory protection expires.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    13. Re:What would I have instead? by Trogre · · Score: 2

      Yes, and so what? Why is this a problem?

      --
      "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
    14. Re:What would I have instead? by Wootery · · Score: 1

      If there is sufficient demand for something, the market would tend to provide it at a viable price.

      Not really. Anti-consumer behaviour is not something that capitalism has shown successful in preventing.

      want to play something on Linux? Get Linux to support my idealised bulletproof DRM and show there's enough of a market to justify any overheads in making the content available on that platform -- just like any other platform has to.

      Well, your 'perfect DRM' idea is just a thought-experiment. Let's not forget that, in the real world, DRM doesn't help anyone. This is particularly self-evident in the case of audio: if it feeds a speaker, it's obviously possible to capture the audio.

      All this said, I still buy on Audible and listen on their Android player. It works great for me personally, right now, but there are still downsides to DRM.

    15. Re:What would I have instead? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lulz, if that's the case then I and many other people are simply going to wait for the copyrights to expire and get the books, music and movies for free. T

      Really? Ordinary copyright expires 70 years after the creator died. The choice of movies & music may be a little limited, but lots of good books are out of copyright. But are you really able to get those books for free?

    16. Re:What would I have instead? by gnupun · · Score: 1

      But are you really able to get those books for free?

      Yep, I just download them from Project Gutenberg. I wonder what year they get to host free movies?

    17. Re:What would I have instead? by gnupun · · Score: 1

      To add to my previous reply, copyright laws have benefited publishers tremendously. The author, who spent decades of his/her life mastering the art of writing, only got paid for 70ish years (with a pittance royalty rate of 5 to 12%). Meanwhile, publishers and retailers have profited tremendously by simply printing and distributing those books for hundreds of years, and still do.

      If you prefer books in paper form, you either have to borrow from a library or pay the publisher and retailer. But you can also download the book, for free, from many websites, so that has probably reduced publisher profits.

    18. Re:What would I have instead? by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      Anti-consumer behaviour is not something that capitalism has shown successful in preventing.

      I'm not really trusting them to act in consumers' interests. It see it more as relying on money-grabbing b*****ds to be money-grabbing b*****ds.

      Well, your 'perfect DRM' idea is just a thought-experiment.

      Of course. In reality I don't support DRM, because in practice I think we are very long way from either perfect DRM or a reasonable copyright framework, and with the current balance I think DRM does more harm than good. That said...

      Let's not forget that, in the real world, DRM doesn't help anyone.

      I'm quite sure that's not true. Just because it doesn't prevent or deter all illegal copying, that doesn't mean it doesn't prevent or deter some illegal copying. Even that is still probably worth a lot of money to rightsholders that they are perfectly within their rights to want to collect. Of course, the downside of this is that honest consumers who pay for something are the ones who get screwed when it doesn't work properly in legitimate cases, which brings me back to why I'm not generally a fan of DRM in the real world today.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
  11. And now for something completely different... by jfdavis668 · · Score: 0

    My hovercraft is full of eels

  12. So if my neighbour has his stereo turned up... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If my neighbour has his stereo turned up too loud so I can hear his music through the wall does that mean I can get him busted for copyright infringement (for an unauthorised public performance)?

  13. been legal in US too. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nope, doesn't circumvent backups. Even with encryption in place you can make a bit-for-bit copy of the medium; the bit-for-bit copy will play just fine because it's the player that does decryption. Encryption doesn't prevent piracy, it protects markets (your Region 1 player won't play Region 2 Blu-rays for example, and it's difficult to make Free software players because of needing the secret key). You can always, always pirate something by capturing the line-out or video (or putting a microphone in front of your speakers and a camcorder in front of your 8K upscaling TV). You'll lose a bit of quality on the video side, but for audio the loss should be no worse than the compression losses are anyway.

  14. I thought it was legal all along by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Haha just shows how easy it is to mistakenly think those nice sensible American laws apply everywhere, when you're discussing these things on the internet. Yay for now actually being correct!

  15. Yeah, yeah, yeah... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This. It's another law They can use to nail you if They have a reason to do so, but which 99.99% of people will ignore and will be safe to ignore, just like we've been ignoring the previous law.

    There are plenty of such laws anyway: everybody's guilty of something if you look hard enough. Nothing to see here, move along.

  16. Sharing question by MobyDisk · · Score: 1

    While it is legal to make back-ups for personal use, it remains an offence to share the data with friends or family.

    How far does that go? I'm thinking in both the US and the UK. I bought a CD, and my wife listens to it on the CD player. No problem, she has the disc, she holds the copy. Now I upload it to cloud storage and she streams it. Still fine. But what if we both stream it? Did I need to buy a second disc so I have a second license?

    1. Re:Sharing question by J053 · · Score: 1

      If the RIAA/MPAA had their way entirely, you'd have to pay a fee each time you listen to it. That's where they'd like to go, and will keep pushing their tame legislators to get there.

  17. But amateurs can't keep up any more... by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

    All existent content is naturally abundant when the cost of duplicating it is fractions of a cent.

    Indeed. No-one is arguing that abolishing copyright today wouldn't be good for everyone but the rightsholders tomorrow. It's whether it's still good for everyone next week or next year or ten years from now that is in question.

    Your point about the best amateur work today competing with good professional work from a decade or two ago is well made, and it's a sign of how far and how fast technology has evolved in recent years. However, it's also a sign that amateurs now have access to tools and techniques originally developed for professionals a few years ago. You're ignoring that in a world where no-one has any incentive to make big budget productions like Lord of the Rings or Game of Thrones, there is also no budget to develop those professional-grade tools in the first place and nothing to start the trickle down effect.

    I think you're also overstating the case dramatically. While today's dedicated and skilled amateurs can make work rivalling professional quality from yesteryear, few amateurs have the time and skill to actually do it. The rest of the time, you get music recordings that are good, but not as good as they would have been if someone had hired a professional recording studio with the right acoustics and equipment. You get the occasional brilliant piece of writing, but you have to filter out a thousand uninspired works of fan fiction to find it. You get a fun film project, but it looks like someone's friend held the camcorder and they ran through a couple of After Effects tutorials afterwards, because that really is what happened. And of course they used After Effects, probably downloaded from a pirate site, to do that, because for the most part the community-built alternatives to professionally created software don't cut it.

    As a final point, the growth in capabilities and scale for modern creative projects is astounding. Twenty years ago, a single developer could create a state-of-the-art game, maybe with a little help from specialists on the graphics and audio fronts. Today, a single good developer can still create a fun game, but it won't look like the state-of-the-art, or anything close to it. I'm all for games with interesting gameplay and films with interesting storylines, and I'll be the first to agree that those are more important than the latest big budget effects and a full soundtrack. But professional quality work today can produce all of the above, and no small group of amateurs will ever compete with that, no matter how enthusiastic or skilled they might be or how long you wait.

    So I don't think it's self-evident from your valid point about what some today's amateurs can do today that amateurs in a few years would match today's best professional work if we abolished the incentives for big budget productions tomorrow. Star Wars was released in 1977, nearly four decades ago, and today's hobbyists on YouTube are still doing light saber effects. At that rate, most of us will be dead before anyone is keeping up with what today's commercial industry can do.

    --
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    1. Re:But amateurs can't keep up any more... by gronofer · · Score: 1

      Somehow I think society would survive without new big-budget productions like Lord of the Rigs et al. The benefits from making all of the world's information readily available, by no longer treating it as property, would far outweigh that loss. However the question is somewhat academic, since it seems that there's roughly zero political interest in any country that I know of for trying out alternatives to ever increasing copyright terms and ever more draconian attempts to enforce it.

    2. Re:But amateurs can't keep up any more... by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      Somehow I think society would survive without new big-budget productions like Lord of the Rigs et al.

      No doubt, but what does survival have to do with anything? The question is whether society would be better or worse off in one situation or the other, and clearly there are multiple reasonable interpretations of "better off".

      The benefits from making all of the world's information readily available, by no longer treating it as property, would far outweigh that loss.

      Well, yes, if you take it as axiomatic that the same volume of good quality work would be created and distributed with or without the commercial incentive offered by copyright, then of course since copyright also has drawbacks we would be better off without it. But you're glossing over the potential difference in what "all of the world's information" would be in those two cases, which is the entire point of the debate.

      --
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    3. Re:But amateurs can't keep up any more... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So I don't think it's self-evident from your valid point about what some today's amateurs can do today that amateurs in a few years would match today's best professional work if we abolished the incentives for big budget productions tomorrow. Star Wars was released in 1977, nearly four decades ago, and today's hobbyists on YouTube are still doing light saber effects. At that rate, most of us will be dead before anyone is keeping up with what today's commercial industry can do.

      Actually, you seem to be agreeing with me. Hobbyists do do light saber effects, but they are superior to Lucas' originals - even in the re-release. A modern florescent bulb encased n polycarbonate can be used to do the light saber effect in real time without digital enhancement. Digital enhancement will help of course, but even without it it is better than Lucas. The amateur's blade of light won't cast a shadow.

      We can debate back and forth about whether we'd "lose" ten, twenty, thirty or even forty years of new "AAA" production, but in the long run, even if we lost a couple decades of production and the current populace missed out, humanity as a whole would be far better off. If my being deprived of a hot shower today means means everyone in the world gets access to clean drinking water forever, I would fully expect to be murdered for refusing. I would also deserve to be murdered. If a magic/alien offered me that choice, I'd give up the shower. I'd gladly give up my life if I found his argument plausible.

      That's the root my "Pareto" argument, the rest is just quibbling over the price.