Will Apple Lose Siri's Core Tech To Samsung?

An anonymous reader writes Apple bought Siri in 2010, but its core technology is owned by Nuance, maker of Dragon NaturallySpeaking. Now Samsung is looking to buy Nuance. From the article: "This past June, Nuance and Samsung began merger talks, but nothing came of it. At the time, the two companies said talks had 'slowed' due to 'complexities.' But they didn't say it was dead. Guess what? The talks are back on. The first hint came in June, after the company missed the quarterly projections. The Wall Street Journal then brought up the talks with Samsung and also noted the company had taken financial steps that could indicate a buyout was imminent. The company’s earnings report for June stated that Nuance was redeeming $250 million in 2027 convertible notes. By calling back the debt, that would save the future acquirer around $50 million from a debt-to-share conversion."

Comments

Siri says

[twixer]

User: Will Apple Lose Siri's Core Tech To Samsung? Siri: Sod off, you insensitive clod!

That Will Make The On-Going Patent Wars Uglier

[Greyfox]

I wonder how that meeting at Samsung went. I'm guessing it opened with someone saying "Ok guys! We need to come up with some ways we can fuck Apple!"

Re:That Will Make The On-Going Patent Wars Uglier

[Anonymous Coward]

Even if thats what happened I can say it couldn't happen to a more deserving company.

Re:Irrevocable License

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't get it. Samsung would never revoke Apple's license. Think about it...

Apple technology... brought to you by Samsung!

Tech Companies have become warring fiefdoms

[Taco Cowboy]

I have been in the tech scene for decades, and having have my "tech baptism" we always have that "community" feel to what we do

That was decades ago

Now, everything changed. Tech companies today are like warring fiefdoms. Instead of focus on innovation they wasted all their resources on making their competitors suffer

Take this SIRI/Nuance -- Apple/Samsung saga for example ---

Instead of innovate - Innovate - INNOVATE what we have here are "strategizing - scheming - blocking"

Instead of innovation the tech companies are more interested in dog fights, and the one thing that I need to know is this ---

Why are they doing all these?

Is it because they no longer have the urge to innovate?

Or is it because the corporate culture (the ROI mentality) that has taken over (in almost all the big tech companies that I know) and it is killing the tech field as we know it?

This is a very unhealthy trend, very very unhealthy, and if we let them corporate guys taking over our tech industry sooner or later we will be facing the sad cold reality that one day, somebody else, maybe India or China or Russia, will become much more technologically advance than the West

Please pay a visit to India or Russia or China, if you have the chance. Over there they still have a lot of people devoting their lives on innovation, because to them, it is the right thing to do

Re:Tech Companies have become warring fiefdoms

[Savage-Rabbit]

Please pay a visit to India or Russia or China, if you have the chance. Over there they still have a lot of people devoting their lives on innovation, because to them, it is the right thing to do

That will change...

Re:Tech Companies have become warring fiefdoms

[Anonymous Coward]

Instead of innovation the tech companies are more interested in dog fights, and the one thing that I need to know is this ---

Why are they doing all these?

Is it because they no longer have the urge to innovate?

Why are they doing this? It's because the low hanging fruit is gone. When every company makes general purpose processors in every device (cell phone, laptop, netbook, desktop, tablet), there is nothing to differentiate one device from any other device, at a fundamental level.

So, instead of having device differentiation, manufacturers need to fight it out over the underlying technologies that support the software running on those devices. The new ideas, or leadership in the old ideas (i.e., Nuance and voice recognition), are where the fight is now because that's the only way to beat a competitor with truly differentiating features in your own products.

- DB (posting as an anonymous coward).

Re:Tech Companies have become warring fiefdoms

[towermac]

Can't innovate man. The tech is covered by patents.

You're not allowed to build your own Siri from scratch.

Give me a break, "they do what they do in India Russia and China because it's the right thing to do."

They follow the law over there while trying to make a buck, same as we do here.

Don't blame our people for obeying the law.

Re:Tech Companies have become warring fiefdoms

[rodrigoandrade]

There was never a "community feel." You were too young to understand how businesses work.

Re:Tech Companies have become warring fiefdoms

[BasilBrush]

It's no different in tech now than ever it was.

Please pay a visit to India or Russia or China, if you have the chance. Over there they still have a lot of people devoting their lives on innovation, because to them, it is the right thing to do

They are certainly the innovators when it comes to malware. So please save the nonsense that they are doing it "because it's the right thing to do." They do what they can to make money, same as any other country.

Re:Tech Companies have become warring fiefdoms

[ihtoit]

Yes, because IP is something to protect even if it has no intrinsic value in concealment - it has strategic value in making your competitors lag. This is abuse of the patent system. China's (to pick a random example from your shortlist) knowledge base depends on the free sharing of ideas, of designs and of the technology to make whatever. Take their auto industry: Chinese manufacturers are building what are basically clones of the most solid cars on the planet built by the likes of BMW, Porsche, Volvo, and even AMG. Do they give a shit for patents? Hell no, otherwise these frames wouldn't outsell their Western counterparts by a factor of almost three.

Re:Tech Companies have become warring fiefdoms

[bws111]

Yep, you can't innovate. Which is why the phone in your pocket is exactly the same as, does the same thing as, and performs the same as the phone that was there 10 years ago.

Re:Tech Companies have become warring fiefdoms

[bws111]

Exactly. This is nothing more than a case of nostalgia for 'the good old days' that never actually existed.

Watt and his competitors were having patent fights hundreds of years ago. Bell and his competitors. Edison. The list goes on.

Re:Tech Companies have become warring fiefdoms

[torkus]

The short answer? The stock market. No really, no tin-foil hats here.

It's become a race to the bottom in order to push the stock prices up. It's not even ROI anymore. The balance sheet for a corporation has more in common with the matrix computers than your checkbook...but if the symbols line up just right you win (and your stock price goes up). Cut 10% of your workforce (even if they're actively earning money) and your numbers look immediately better. Stock price typically goes up.

Why?

Companies are run by their senior staff and board members; All of whom receive large stock-based compensation and/or typically have large holdings in the company. So laying off a bunch of hard working people or doing other shitty things even if your company is doing just fine...suddenly starts to make sense. If you own 12 million shares and cutting a department or two pushes up the stock price a buck you just make $12 million. The board is probably thrilled with you and increase your bonus this year by another 100k shares or something on top of it.

So the same game applies to stuff like patents and apps and whatnot. It's all about swinging the bigger dick and look like you're running your competition out of business. Doesn't matter if you do or not. Doesn't matter if you put a bunch of people out of work. Doesn't matter if you have a stupid. Stock price goes up? Execs win.

Granted most other people lose in the process. Buy hey, we don't count.

Re:Tech Companies have become warring fiefdoms

[jafac]

Well, this article is incredibly misleading.

Nuance is NOT the core-technology behind SIRI.

SIRI's search AI was the core technology.

Nuance was just the convenient front-end (speech recognition) - and that technology is actually very "old" (in internet terms): Mid-1990's.

What Nuance has that its competitors don't have, is a method of using pronunciation guides, which were captured using very painstaking intensive studies of speakers. Variations in individual speech patterns (mannerisms, dialects, accents) have been boiled down to statistical models. These models inform the recognizer, so that "training" isn't necessary, and speech recognition can be more of a plug-n-play thing. It's a huge boost in usability over other speech recognition software. And it required a huge up-front investment. There are few cases where intellectual property is a legitimate idea to protect in software - and this is one of them. Otherwise, there would have been no incentive for the geniuses at Nuance to have come up with this scheme, and invest in the research required to create the statistical models.

If other companies want to build a competing solution for speech recognition, I'm not aware of any encumbrance on the method (software patents are a thing, but this method is not patented afaik) - but they still have to come up with their own statistical models, because Nuance's are protected.

Which company?

[wonkey_monkey]

The first hint came in June, after the company missed the quarterly projections.

In an article about two companies possibly merging (and the possible ramifications of said merger for a third company), "the company" ends up being just a bit ambiguous.

license cortana

[jbolden]

Right now Cortana (Windows Phone) is the digital assistant that is furthest ahead. Microsoft / Apple's relationship is good for example the Bing integrations. So potentially they could license Cortana (likely calling it Siri and using the Siri voice) and get an upgrade. I don't see this as devastating, just annoying. Or of course it isn't like Apple couldn't afford to move anything in house.

Samsung Already works with Apple, what changes?

[KingOfBLASH]

I find it funny how this article implies that because Samsung might now own the technology behind Siri, Siri is in trouble.

Samsung is a REALLY big company with lots of different divisions. One of those, the phone division, is in stiff competition with apple. Another one of those, the chip division, has apple as their best customer.

Apple will continue licensing siri technology. Yes, they'll probably look for alternatives (the same way they are looking for an alternative to the Samsung chip fabrication).

But whether or not they're successful, all that will happen is two really big companies will continue having divisions that work together, and divisions that are in competition.

It's a non story.

Re:Samsung Already works with Apple, what changes?

[Bogtha]

Apple will continue licensing siri technology. Yes, they'll probably look for alternatives (the same way they are looking for an alternative to the Samsung chip fabrication).

I would be amazed if they weren't already working on this. You mention chip fabrication, but bringing software development in house compared with bringing manufacturing in house is a hell of a lot easier.

This is more akin to Google Maps vs Apple Maps. They are reliant upon licensing software from a competitor for a major feature. While they've almost certainly got a long-term contract in place that lets them use the technology on their own terms, at some point that contract will expire, and they'll be beholden to whatever new contract terms are offered. With Maps, the new terms were unacceptable, the timing was awful and they were underprepared to switch. You'd better believe bringing voice recognition in house in plenty of time for switching over is a priority.

Re:Samsung Already works with Apple, what changes?

[jellomizer]

Apple seems to have a good track record of working well with its most bitter competitors.
Apple and Microsoft, Apple and IBM, Apple and Samsung, Apple and Google...
Apple seems to compete against individual products not against the companies on the whole.

Re:Samsung Already works with Apple, what changes?

[unimacs]

I'm not sure it's wise bring Siri development in house but FWIW Apple's Maps has worked really well for a couple of years now.

Tech Companies have become warring fiefdoms

[cardpuncher]

Actually, nothing has changed.

The BUNCH vs IBM, Amdahl vs IBM, LANManager vs Netware, Word vs WordPerfect, Excel vs Lotus 1-2-3... The first big anti-trust case in IT was against IBM in 1969.

It may be seem different to anyone who arrived on the scene at a point in time when tech took its first Internet turn and there was enough virtual turf in cyberspace for everyone to have a piece of the action. However, most of those claims are now staked, so this is merely a return to business as usual.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:Do people actually use Siri?

[dave1791]

Setting egg timers and alarms. For that use case, I can skip over a lot of menu taps. For just about anything else, its useless.

Screaming "innovate more" is not a solution

[sjbe]

Instead of innovation the tech companies are more interested in dog fights, and the one thing that I need to know is this --- Why are they doing all these?

Because they have to. It has nothing to do with their desire (or lack thereof) to innovate. Once you are an established player part of remaining a successful company is competitive strategy. Some products simply cannot be rapidly innovated. Coca-Cola isn't going to come up with some new miracle drink. Apple is not likely to reinvent the personal computer. Those are mature businesses and they have to be tended to and protected. The notion that every problem can be solved and every business can be run if we are just more innovative is incredibly naive. Even if you do have some incredibly innovative new product it is going to be copied within days and you will be out of business if you cannot protect that new product. To do otherwise is irresponsible and a one way ticket to bankruptcy.

For Apple or Samsung or Microsoft to grow at even a modest 5-8% rate they would have to create as much new business as the entire revenue of EBay *every year*. You think it is easy to create a new company the size of eBay each any every year? When you become big enough there simply are not that many new lines of business that are big enough to really move the needle. It is unbelievably difficult

Please pay a visit to India or Russia or China, if you have the chance. Over there they still have a lot of people devoting their lives on innovation, because to them, it is the right thing to do

I have been to China and India. There is no religion of innovation over there any more than there is lack of it here in the US. There are a bunch of people who are working hard to find economic opportunities, just like here. A lot of the effort over there is largely aimed at copying industry from other parts of the world with the advantage of cheaper Chinese labor rates. Sure there are a few companies doing some pretty nifty new stuff, but their economy is in no way centered around innovation. Most of it is engaged in contract manufacturing for export. They don't design the products, the just make or copy them. Nothing (generally) wrong with that but China is not driving product innovation in any big way yet. One day maybe but not today.

Samsung has worked with Nuance forever

[RubberDogBone]

An ancient Samsung flip-phone I had, gosh, 10 years ago maybe, had a sort of rudimentary voice command operation powered by Nuance. Between that and other similar things Samsung has done, they were working with Nuance long before SRI and Siri came along.

Rather than being something to damage Apple, I would say the current idea of buying them probably has more to do with "OK Google" now being mandated on devices, which in turn cuts Samsung and Nuance out of the game. I am not sure what buying Nuance is supposed to do but it has to be a defense of some sort.

Re:Google Now just works...

[PRMan]

This is nonsense. Google Now is so useless that it never understands me unless I am in absolute silence. It's much quicker to just hit Chrome and type what I want with Swype.

Re:Say what?

[SilenceBE]

They only use the RealSpeak TTS (text to speech) engine... . This is really a non story because they can easily switch to another TTS vendor. The only possible impact is that siri would sound different... .

Disclaimer: I'm a developer that worked for Lernout and Hauspie that originally developed the ASR/TTS engine that have been sold to Scansoft/Nuance.

PS: Good luck for Samsung because when we bought certain American companies that also did Pentagon contract work, some Americans weren't that happy about it. I'm even personally convinced that they had some hands in the rapid downfall of Lernout and Hauspie.

Re:Siri! What does Betteridge say about this?

[pauljlucas]

Seriously, do you really think that Apple would allow one of its flagship technologies to be compromised by another company?

Like Google did with Maps? Like Motorola did with the PowerPC? Like Microsoft did with Internet Explorer? Nah, Apple would never let things like that happen.

Re:Do people actually use Siri?

[schlachter]

I use it recursively.
"Remind me to set a reminder in an hour"
It's never ending fun.