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The Cult of Elon Musk Shines With Steve Jobs' Aura

HughPickens.com writes Alan Boyle writes that over the years, Elon Musk's showmanship, straight-ahead smarts and far-out ideas have earned him a following that spans the geek spectrum — to the point that some observers see glimmers of the aura that once surrounded Apple's Steve Jobs. "To me, it feels like he's the most obvious inheritor of Steve Jobs' mantle," says Ashlee Vance, who's writing a biography of Musk that at one time had the working title The Iron Man. "Obviously, Steve Jobs' products changed the world ... [But] if Elon's right about all these things that he's after, his products should ultimately be more meaningful than what Jobs came up with. He's the guy doing the most concrete stuff about global warming." So what is Musk's vision? What motivates Musk at the deepest level? "It's his Mars thing," says Vance. Inspired in part by the novels of Isaac Asimov and Robert Heinlein, Musk has come around to the view that humanity's long-term future depends on extending its reach beyond Earth, starting with colonies on Mars. Other notables like physicist Stephen Hawking have laid out similar scenarios — but Musk is actually doing something to turn those interplanetary dreams into a reality. Vance thinks that Musk is on the verge of breaking out from geek guru status to a level of mass-market recognition that's truly on a par with the late Steve Jobs. Additions to the Tesla automotive line, plus the multibillion-dollar promise of Tesla's battery-producing "gigafactory" in Nevada, could push Musk over the edge. "Tesla, as a brand, really does seem to have captured the public's imagination. ... All of a sudden he's got a hip product that looks great, and it's creating jobs. The next level feels like it's got to be that third-generation, blockbuster mainstream product. The story is not done."

181 comments

  1. I'm OK with this by Bradmont · · Score: 5, Interesting

    In OK with this, especially since the major difference between the two is that Musk is actually innovating, instead of just making great packaging and hype.

    1. Re:I'm OK with this by ArmchairGeneral · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm glad to see this comment was posted, and so early too. While Jobs can be credited with the work he's done, Musk is the one that, IMO, has already done far more in terms of technological advancements.

    2. Re:I'm OK with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have to say it's odd to hear Musk called an inheritor of Steve Jobs' mantle... in the circles I hang around in, he is vastly more deified than Jobs is, or ever was.

      As the summary says, some of it is showmanship, but not all of it.

    3. Re:I'm OK with this by wisnoskij · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm glad to see this comment was posted, and so early too. While Jobs can be credited with the work others have done, Musk is the one that, IMO, has already done far more in terms of technological advancements.

      Fixed that for you.

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    4. Re:I'm OK with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He made his money with PayPal, arguably one of the diriest sites on the Internet. I have no respect for him.

    5. Re:I'm OK with this by Barsteward · · Score: 1, Troll

      call us when you are 0.1% as successful as him.. until then, wallow in your pit of jealousy

      --
      "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
    6. Re:I'm OK with this by Njorthbiatr · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Musk is basically the polar opposite of Jobs.

      One delivers little with a lot of hype and the other delivers a lot with very little hype.

    7. Re:I'm OK with this by Barsteward · · Score: 2

      "Wow. Every single post in support sound like it is by a frothing at the mouth nutjob." - haha let me fix that for you "Wow. Every single post of jealousy sounds like it is by a frothing at the mouth nutjob."

      --
      "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
    8. Re:I'm OK with this by epwpixieqneg1 · · Score: 1

      That Musk is working on more fundamental problems is more than clear for anyone who has some core understanding of engineering and the underlying challenges when dealing with physical reality vs software based ones. Jobs was a consumer oriented/marketing/product visionary person, in contrast, Musk is looking in the future and is trying to put GROWTH in the direction of solving some of the underlying fundamental civilization problems, and this is highly admirable. Regrettably, as of lately, it seems that "Tesla" company ( and this implies Musk vision) is moving towards making their cars as difficult to modify as possible and in such is trying to undermined the growth of the only market that can compete with the NEW electric car vehicles one and that is the internal combustion engine (ICE) -to-electric conversion market. In the world there are over 700 million ICE card and everyone of them can be converted to electric, this is a huge market for the electro/mechanical shops, that will eat a big byte of the market for new electric cars. For that ICE-to-electric to grow it needs commodity parts that are easily swappable/interface-able between different brand components, this is what the electric vehicles car maker are realizing and are trying to undermine and curtail. Of course, Musk is working through the corporate structure of the business and not as an independent entrepreneur/visionary ( as he would like to be perceived), and such he has to make sure that the shareholders get their part, and this, regrettably, leads to undermining any market competition even, if in the light of it, the world, in no doubt, will be moving in the same direction (and even A LOT FASTER) as in Musk's vision, and will be a better place even without THE HIGH COST inherently present in the selling of NEW electric vehicles.

    9. Re:I'm OK with this by plover · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The principle difference between them is that Jobs was always known to be a huge douche-nozzle. If Musk is similar, at least the stories of it haven't spread as much yet.

      --
      John
    10. Re:I'm OK with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well he's "made" one thing, and is currently just hyping things he wants to make but don't really know how or have the money...

    11. Re:I'm OK with this by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      CEO's and leaders of every other type have people that do the work. And they are all inspired by others that came before them. It's moronic to pretend that great leadership is worthless and isn't itself work.

      Even freetards and libertarians have their leaders - Linus Torvalds, RMS, ESR, Ayn Rand, Ron Paul.

    12. Re:I'm OK with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      In OK with this, especially since the major difference between the two is that Musk is actually innovating, instead of just making great packaging and hype.

      While true, I'd actually be worried about the cancerous Apple cult getting into something like Musk's projects. If there's one thing stupid hippies are good it it's haphazardly pursing anything they have in mind until it is destroyed.

    13. Re:I'm OK with this by BasilBrush · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The hype is the same with both. Mostly self sustaining and well earned.

      And whilst the Tesla EV and SpaceX are important and exciting, bringing the GUI to the consumer has had more impact.

    14. Re:I'm OK with this by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Musk seems mostly okay in interviews, but occasionally he does lie/exaggerate outrageously. The stupid thing is, there really is no need for him to do so as his products tend to be really great.

      For example, in various YouTube videos he says that you can own a Tesla Model S for $300/month. That's complete nonsense, you can only get to that number if you factor in money saved on vast amounts of fuel, maintenance and guaranteed resale value. I'm not sure about the US but the UK price is about £820/month, which works out at about $1320/month. He is basically saying that by owning one you would save $1000/month in other costs.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    15. Re:I'm OK with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, one is slightly less dead than the other.

    16. Re:I'm OK with this by serviscope_minor · · Score: 0

      freetards

      What's a freetard? To me it translates to roughly:

      I'm the user of the word "freetard" do hereby declare that I am a fool.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    17. Re:I'm OK with this by hackertourist · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't get it. Why the downplaying of Jobs' achievements? Yes, yes, asshole, RDF, marketing, design, blah blah blah. Whatever.
      1. Jobs led the team that developed the Macintosh: the first GUI-driven computer that had more than niche appeal. He changed the face of computing and everyone in the field furiously struggled to badly copy the Mac for the next decade or so. This made computing accessible to the masses, where previously the CLI had been a pretty big barrier for consumers.
      2. He introduced the first MP3 player that actually worked well. Billions sold, total market domination etc.
      3. He introduced the first smartphone that worked well. Billions sold, total market domination etc.
      Do you get the pattern yet? Innovation is not just about designing hardware. Designing a comprehensible interface is a major achievement in its own right.

      Jobs made computing accessible to the average man. If I were to exaggerate as much as the parent: Musk just makes cheap rockets and expensive cars.

    18. Re:I'm OK with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Elon musk is a fucking dope.

    19. Re:I'm OK with this by macsimcon · · Score: 1, Troll

      I’m going to assume you’re not trolling here. I’m really starting to believe articles about Musk are just clickbait.

      People who think Musk is the next Jobs haven’t taken the time to research and compare the accomplishments of both men.

      Jobs changed the music industry with the iPod and the iTunes Store; the movie industry with Pixar; the software industry with GUI on the Mac, and later, the App Store; the smartphone industry with the iPhone; and the tablet industry with the iPad. Those are just the examples I can come up with off the top of my head. Nobody was clamoring for computer-driven animation, or Microsoft tablets, or the Treo, or the Diamond Rio or Archos. Jobs' version brought those products to the mainstream. Previous attempts by other companies were commercial failures.

      But probably Jobs’ greatest creation was Apple itself. With the largest market capitalization in the world, and more cash on hand than anyone, Apple is bound by nothing.

      And what has Musk done? Well, he makes one of the most expensive cars money can buy (hardly an amazing feat), adding “autopilot” features that already exist in cars from other manufacturers. Even with astronomical price tags, Tesla sells only a fraction of the number of cars as Toyota does, and Tesla has lost money nearly every year of its existence (not hard to do). Musk has formed SpaceX to take cargo and people to space (has he really done a better job than NASA could?). He wants to go to Mars, but hasn’t figured out a way to overcome the landing problems, or to address perchlorate poisoning, or the dozens of other problems, some of which likely won't be solved in our lifetimes, if ever. He envisioned Hyperloop, which is so expensive and dangerous (not to mention running in earthquake country) that it’s impractical and will never be built.

      And where is Musk’s electric car for the masses? He keeps claiming it’s coming, yet none of the models he’s discussed are ever likely to cost $30,000.

      Jobs was a dreamer. Musk is a dreamer. But Jobs was a dreamer who created real products, and changed real industries. Musk dreams like a child: “I want a jetpack!” or “I want to go to another planet!” without having first figured out how to accomplish the feat. Jobs was an industrialist; Musk is a dilettante.

      Jobs knew something Musk doesn’t: coming up with the idea is the smallest part of the solution. Anyone can come up with a great idea, it’s the realization of that idea as a bestselling product or service which separates the average joe from the successful industrialist.

      Oh, and that Musk video on global warming? He didn’t propose a solution, he just regurgitated Dick Cheney's “One Percent Doctrine” and applied it to global climate change.

      If Musk REALLY wants to change the world, how about coming up with a jet fuel additive that will bind with CO2 or CH4 to create a heavy enough compound which will gradually fall back to the surface? I’d like to see an actual idea AND solution from him that would decrease the amount of greenhouse gas in the atmosphere.

    20. Re:I'm OK with this by BasilBrush · · Score: 2

      What's a freetard?

      https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki...

      I'm sorry your vocabulary is lacking.

    21. Re:I'm OK with this by Paul+Carver · · Score: 1

      Steve Jobs was born in 1955, Elon Musk in 1971. Are you sure you want to compare them based on accomplishments to date? I think we can assume Jobs won't be accomplishing anything else, but it's a bit premature to judge Musk's lifetime achievements. Lots of people live into their 70s, some are productive into their 90s, especially if they can afford expensive medical care. Even if Musk were to die at the same age Jobs did, you really aren't giving him a fair comparison unless you restrict your comparison to things Jobs had accomplished by Musk's current age.

    22. Re:I'm OK with this by macsimcon · · Score: 0

      Yes, I'm sure. Musk isn't a visionary, he's just a dreamer. Electric cars have failed to catch on. Solar power has yet to achieve mass popularity. SpaceX has yet to do something that NASA couldn't. And unless Musk is actually a second Einstein, space travel won't be possible for the masses in his lifetime.

      Jobs improved product after product, over and over again. Musk's products have failed to achieve mass appeal, over and over again.

      Jobs will go down as the greatest industrialist in the last hundred years. Musk will be a footnote.

    23. Re:I'm OK with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just remember where Elon got all his money - the Paypal scam i.e. "your account has been frozen due to irregularities and you can't get any of your money out." Even if he/paypal didn't "steal" the money outright, you can be sure they were making a huge amount in interest off it.

    24. Re:I'm OK with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      WHAT THE FUCK?

      Solar hasnt achieved mass popularity?

      With just that part of your post, I can dismiss you as typing complete crap. Solar very much does have mass popularity.

    25. Re:I'm OK with this by serviscope_minor · · Score: 2

      Ah yes the dictionary anyone can edit.

      Still means "I the user of the word freetard do hereby declare I'm an idiot".

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    26. Re:I'm OK with this by Solandri · · Score: 1

      Success requires good engineering combined with good marketing. Musk has the engineering down pat, and is smart enough to give his marketing department freedom to decide how his products are represented to the public. If he didn't have his current marketing department, he'd go hire one and give them as much free rein as necessary to keep the public excited about his products.

      Jobs was a master at marketing, but he didn't give the engineering enough credit. If he hadn't been fortunate enough to run across Wozniak and Woz hadn't been so blase about Jobs taking credit for his work, Jobs probably would've ended up a (very good) used car salesman.

    27. Re:I'm OK with this by haruchai · · Score: 2

      Truly epic trolling. Well done.

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    28. Re:I'm OK with this by LodCrappo · · Score: 2

      It's easy to let rose tinted glasses come into play when looking back at computing's past, and excusable to a certain degree, but your claims really push the limits of how far I can distort my direct memories of some events.

      For one thing.. the Mac was always a small if not a niche player in the personal computing realm. DOS or Windows based PCs have outsold them by a large factor, from a minimum of about 6 times as many sold in when the Mac was introduce in1984 to over 50 times more sold in the mid 2000s and about 20 times more Windows machines sold than Macs today.

      This means Apple didn't introduce anything to the vast majority of computer users. Most computer users have never owned a Mac. You could argue that Mac's existence made Microsoft's GUI better indirectly, but there were GUIs before the Mac that made the Mac better too (some might say without Xerox's research the Mac would never have been possible), so that's a difficult thing to quantify and fairly give Apple alone much credit for. Ultimately, the role of actually introducing the masses to computing was played by Microsoft products, not Apple products.

      Your fond recollection of the iPhone is over enthusiastic as well. Apple sold it's 500 millionth iPhone earlier this year. They won't make it to a billion until 2017 without some serious changes in trends. "Total market domination" is an "aggressive" way to describe a device that has never accounted for even 20% of the smartphone market.

      --
      -Lod
    29. Re:I'm OK with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Very little hype? Are you kidding me?

      Musk gets more attention than any other topic on Slashdot.

    30. Re:I'm OK with this by Sivaraj · · Score: 1

      Most of that hype is fan created rather than directly from Musk or his companies.

    31. Re:I'm OK with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Lisa came out in 1982 2 years before the Mac and the IBM Simon came out in 1994 was the first smartphone that worked well. Slashdot even had a story on it.

    32. Re:I'm OK with this by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      And your attitude on a word with a clear meaning makes you a moron.

      Where does that bullshit argument get us?

    33. Re:I'm OK with this by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      If Jobs didn't have Woz, he would have got another engineer to design the computer. A visit to the Homebrew Computer Club would have found quite a few engineers who were just as capable of putting a microcomputer together.

      Marketing was only one of Jobs talents. Another was motivating people to deliver their best work. Since Woz stopped working for Jobs, he has done nothing notable - beyond spending the wealth that his association with Jobs earned him. Other designers and engineers that worked for Jobs HAVE produced a number of outstanding and market defining products.

      Also note that marketing includes coming up with the concept for the product in the first place. Such as the fact that the Apple II was a complete computer in a case. As I mentioned earlier, Woz wouldn't have made a case - and the Apple II would therefore never have been the mainstream success it was.

    34. Re:I'm OK with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dead right.
      We are told not to speak ill of the dead but really Steve Jobs rode on the backs of Steve Wozniak (a guy he was happy to cheat) and a host of others.
      He got cranky with Google for offering a proper salary to an Apple guy which ended in the illegal fixing of the job market for software engineers by removing competition for their services. He even stiffed his staff (Mr Wozniak ended up paying them from his own pocket). He was a salesman with everything that implies. So arrogant he decided to ignore the advice of his doctors for early surgery when his eventually fatal cancer could have been cured instead going with an unproven (since proven not to work by Mr. Jobs) diet.

      On the other hand you have a natural engineer/scientist (I say natural because he never got past BSc level although he did get to Harvard for a couple of days of a PHD degree course). Musk has his failings but don't we all. He also has his achievements which are pretty astounding.

      There is the world of difference between those two guys.
      Best regards.

  2. Tony Stark by underqualified · · Score: 1

    I was always under the impression that the movie version of Tony Stark was based on Larry Ellison. Since when did Elon Musk become Iron Man?

    1. Re:Tony Stark by binarylarry · · Score: 1

      Why would Tony Stark be based on Larry Ellison?

      Larry Ellison owns a company (Oracle) that makes awful products and races boats occasionally.

      It's unfair to compare Tony Stark to that douchebag.

      --
      Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
    2. Re:Tony Stark by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was always under the impression that the movie version of Tony Stark was based on Larry Ellison. Since when did Elon Musk become Iron Man?

      It was always perfectly obvious to me that Tony Stark was modeled after Howard Hughes.

    3. Re:Tony Stark by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not all Larry Ellison's products are awful.
      You can get a re-badged open source RedHatLinux from him that's exactly as good as the original.
      And the brilliant part is Red Hat did all the hard work for him, all he need do is collect the money.
      There is a man fit to stand shoulder to shoulder with Steve Jobs.
      Best regards.

  3. He's a nasty little man by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    Top Gear reviews his car, it breaks, they tow it back, find it blew a fuse, do some more tests, it flattens its battery. He does misdirections and deceptions, e.g. complaining that it didn't need to be towed back, which was false, (how could they know the fault could be fixed on the track when the cause of the fault wasn't known).

    NYT reviews it, gives a basically correct article, his response was to seize on minor detail and portray the reviewer as a liar.

    He fails to deliver his rockets on time, costing NASA tens of millions, and he does a verbal attack on NASA.

    Face it, he's a little shit who covers his mistakes and his products weaknesses with astroturf and false PR.

    1. Re:He's a nasty little man by NoZart · · Score: 4, Informative

      Face it, he's a little shit who covers his mistakes and his products weaknesses with astroturf and false PR.

      Sounds like Steve Jobs

    2. Re:He's a nasty little man by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So basically he's like an open source software developer then?

    3. Re:He's a nasty little man by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      If the open source developer in question is Lennart Poeterring then yes.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    4. Re:He's a nasty little man by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's Top Gear doing the misdirections and deceptions. They fudged the tests in order to make fun of the Tesla, and when Musk called them out on it and sued them for libel and defamation, Top Gear's defence was that they are "an entertainment program, not to be taken seriously". And that's exactly what it is.

      I'm sure the man has an ego the size of Jupiter and a temper to match, but at least he has some reason to have those. He's getting things done in several difficult industries. The comparison to Apple and Jobs is apt in more ways that one: like Apple's flagship product, the Tesla has caught the attention of many, and every little flaw is put under a magnifying glass and blown out of proportion.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    5. Re:He's a nasty little man by bmajik · · Score: 5, Informative

      The NYT drove the car in circles in a parking lot to run down the battery, then lied about the range. Musk pulled the GPS data and PROVED they were lying.

      http://www.teslamotors.com/blo...

      --
      My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
    6. Re: He's a nasty little man by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The other kock brother asks that you wipe your face before switching to servicing him.

    7. Re:He's a nasty little man by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you're looking for objective reviews of cars, I don't think To Gear, as amusing as they might be, really is the the place...

    8. Re:He's a nasty little man by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Honestly, being at odds with mainstream marketing is a bonus. If more people did it those shitheads would be out of business.

    9. Re:He's a nasty little man by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      But the world needs Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Elon Musk, Andrew Canarge and John Rockefeller's of the world.

      No, it doesn't.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  4. Every time I hear the name by smittyoneeach · · Score: 5, Funny

    I'm all looking around for the cologne advertisement.

    --
    Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
    1. Re:Every time I hear the name by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 1

      "Elon Musk, I knew Steve Jobs. Steve Jobs was a friend of mine. Mr. Musk, you're no Steve Jobs..."

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
    2. Re: Every time I hear the name by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you become a friend with Elon, they will be the same then?

  5. Obama's done more than Elon musk by Noah+Haders · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I think it's actually Obama who's done the most on climate change concretely. He signed into law new fuel economy standards that will double the fuel called me a new vehicles. Elon musk is selling a couple thousand cars a year, well Obama standards will affect millions of cars every year.

    1. Re:Obama's done more than Elon musk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe in the short term. But eventually we'll all be driving automated electric cars running on solar-powered roads. - https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/solar-roadways

    2. Re:Obama's done more than Elon musk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I agree. But Musk is also making the electric car cool.

      When the big 3 automakers tried their hands at it years ago, they made these ugly slow shit boxes that only greenest of the green wanted - so they sold hardly any and shut down production.

    3. Re:Obama's done more than Elon musk by bgarcia · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Let me get this straight. You're giving more credit to a politician. A politician who didn't even write the law. A politician who did nothing but sign a piece of paper presented to him by 535 other policitians. He didn't invent anything. He didn't build anything.

      And you're going to hold him up as having done *more* for the environment than an entrepreneur who spent - and risked - his entire fortune to make electric cars a mainstream reality.

      Seriously?

      --
      I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.
    4. Re:Obama's done more than Elon musk by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      not to mention, the engineers of the US automotive industry were asked their roadmap and what was possible. Hence, what the politicians wrote. What Obama has done is line the pockets of "green" energy scammers

    5. Re:Obama's done more than Elon musk by rolfwind · · Score: 2

      I think it's actually Obama who's done the most on climate change concretely. He signed into law new fuel economy standards that will double the fuel called me a new vehicles. Elon musk is selling a couple thousand cars a year, well Obama standards will affect millions of cars every year.

      http://www.nbcnews.com/id/2232...

      When posed with the question: Would I prefer 50 politicians like X or businessmen/inventor's like Musk, my answer would be more Musks in the world.

      Politicians should be lauded for doing the right thing for PR purposes, but their importance to the overall scheme should not be overhyped in history. Their minds are not the ones that shape the future. They can mandate anything they like, but it's up to engineers and others to actually implement it.

      (Also, fuel economy standards are notorious for the loopholes and crooked accounting.)

    6. Re: Obama's done more than Elon musk by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      Noah, All of the major car companies are banding together to do fuel cells that use hydrogen derived from Nat gas.
      When gen 3 hits the market in about 3 years, few will want to buy a fuel cell car. As it is, the only reason why leaf and volt outsell model s is not because those owners do not want Tesla. It is simply because they can not afford it. Gen 3 will force all major car companies to switch to electric, rather than loose major shares to Tesla.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    7. Re: Obama's done more than Elon musk by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      Actually, it was o that pushed that reg over the objections from the neo-cons/tea*. They were/are opposed to that reg as obamacare.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    8. Re:Obama's done more than Elon musk by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      You're giving more credit to the boss of a company selling niche products than the POTUS?

      Seriously?

      And to give credit to congress is seriously misinformed. This is the most useless congress in history, the house of representatives having made it a mission to not pass any legislation. It's an achievement for the POTUS to get anything worthwhile passed. But the fuel standards improvements didn't have anything to do with congress. It didn't need any additional legislation, just an update of rules of the existing CAFE standards.

  6. Moonraker by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Elon Musk is basically set up to be a supervillain... probably Hugo Drax.

  7. Steve Jobs' products changed the world? by wisnoskij · · Score: 2

    They did? I sort of thought he just "invented" slightly tweaked things that already existed and respectively made the second most popular version of them, and then the most popular version of them.

    At least with the computer you could say that he was the co-designer of the modern computer, designer because neither of them invented the idea just popularised and commercialised on the idea. But I am not sure that the Apple computer really had that much sway on the idea of what the PC is/was.

    And while he was the leader in mp3 players and then smartphones, I am not sure that his designs were anything other that high-quality copies of what others had already done well before him. If Jobs was a leader in anything it was of aesthetic design and branding. Musk is the new Jobs, but he seems to be doing a better job of actually leading the pack instead of just following.

    --
    Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    1. Re:Steve Jobs' products changed the world? by Higaran · · Score: 1

      I agree, for all the praise people give him, all Jobs really did was be a guy that could get people to buy stuff. He invented nothing, he treated his family and friends like shit, I'm not even going how he acted to his employees.

    2. Re:Steve Jobs' products changed the world? by Barsteward · · Score: 1

      I thought all the apple product designs were down to Jonathan Ives

      --
      "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
    3. Re:Steve Jobs' products changed the world? by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The iPhone was a game changer in the market. You are right in that it wasn't a radical new design and more the result of a series of small improvements coupled with a drive for quality. Even so, all those improvements added up to the first smart phone that was actually easy to use. Back then, if you saw someone take out a smart phone at the bus stop, fiddle with it for a minute and then put it back, you could be sure it was an iPhone. Doing small tasks quickly simply wasn't practical on the other smart phones out there at the time.

      I'm not sure to what extent Tesla innovated to create the cars they have, but certainly they made the first EV that people actually wanted to have for reasons other than it being an EV or hybrid. It was also one of the first mass market EVs that doesn't look like utter crap (the Honda Civic hybrid being the other one). Interestingly, some analysts suggested that Tesla should stick to supplying batteries and drive trains for other car makers... after having stood the EV market on its head. I for one hope that they'll continue to make cars, but the real test (and the tipping point) will be the moment they create a family EV in a mid-range price class.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    4. Re:Steve Jobs' products changed the world? by swb · · Score: 2

      I'll agree that Apple is a very heavily marketed brand and set of products, but I can't help but give Jobs credit for taking ideas and making technology accesable and usable to wide variety of people.

      And it's not like Musk invented cars or even electric cars, he had a vision of a better electric car and made it. And even if you argue the Tesla is a more visionary car than the iPhone was a smartphone or the Macintosh a computer, there would still be people arguing about its technology, limits, cost, etc.

      If Musk is the Jobs of the electric car, it'll be interesting to see if a "Wintel" or "Android" class of electric cars gets developed and how Musk's vision stacks up. Maybe Musk will be seen with some of the negatives Jobs is now, as a marketer of elitist products no better than their competitors.

    5. Re:Steve Jobs' products changed the world? by citizenr · · Score: 1

      You mean modern toys in vintage Braun cases?

      --
      Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
    6. Re:Steve Jobs' products changed the world? by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 2

      I'm not sure to what extent Tesla innovated to create the cars they have, but certainly they made the first EV that people actually wanted to have for reasons other than it being an EV or hybrid.

      The Tesla Roadster made electric cars cool, in that it was a car for the ultra-top end market, people who otherwise would be buying a Lotus or Ferrari. So, it was an existence proof that you could make an EV that contended with top-end sports cars.

      It was also one of the first mass market EVs that doesn't look like utter crap (the Honda Civic hybrid being the other one).

      Actually, Leaf is the top selling EV on the market right now. If you count electric cars with gasoline backup, Volt would be on the list.

      Tesla doesn't make a mass-market EV yet; their Model S right now is rather a luxury car rather than something for the average buyer. While I'd love to have one... I don't think Tesla comes anywhere close to being "the first" in the way of mass market EVs. There are a lot of electric cars out there, both mass-market and otherwise.

      --
      http://www.geoffreylandis.com
    7. Re:Steve Jobs' products changed the world? by Barsteward · · Score: 1

      yep, those are the ones.. the Bauhaus inspired ones

      --
      "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
    8. Re:Steve Jobs' products changed the world? by guises · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The iPhone was junk when it was released. There was nothing about the device itself that was really new, nothing that it could do which you couldn't do as well or better on another phone, it couldn't run any kind of non-Apple software (and still can't run anything which isn't expressly approved by Apple), and it cost six hundred dollars with contract.

      What turned the iPhone into something important was not the revolutionary device, the device was not revolutionary, it was the widespread belief that this was something important. In other words, marketing. It was the belief that made sales and created the customer base, it was the belief that brought all those developers, and it was belief that made people put up with the idea of a completely closed ecosystem - the idea that it was okay to buy something which wouldn't really belong to you even after your purchase. Again, not a revolutionary idea, but something that Apple's extraordinary marketing power could make happen. That was the new thing, the game changer.

    9. Re:Steve Jobs' products changed the world? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "it'll be interesting to see if a "Wintel" or "Android" class of electric cars gets developed "

      They already exist: Nissan Leaf, Chevvy Volt, Renault electric MPVs, as well as others. They are cheaper but less capable, much as a cheap Android 7" tablet is cheaper but less capable than an iPad.

      I think the hope is that what Musk does (especially given his statements on not wishing to patent things) that is new trickles down into the mass market, much as the ethos of usability and good design from Apple has trickled down. Not that Apple created good design - there was a man whose name I forgot who was influential in the design of everything from cars to blenders who could probably claim that crown. I just can't think of a web search to find his name.

    10. Re:Steve Jobs' products changed the world? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It was the first phone that could also be used as a music player by normal people.
      Face it phones before that had the worst user interfaces, playing a song required at least to go down 10 different menus.
      All phones before that were designed by the same people who created the user interface of a video recorder.

    11. Re:Steve Jobs' products changed the world? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The iPhone was junk when it was released. There was nothing about the device itself that was really new, nothing that it could do which you couldn't do as well or better on another phone, it couldn't run any kind of non-Apple software (and still can't run anything which isn't expressly approved by Apple), and it cost six hundred dollars with contract.

      Did you actually use a 1st gen iPhone when it was released and compare it to similar devices of the time? Browsing on the iPhone was incredibly easy to use and functional -- it made something like a Windows CE device feel archaic. Google maps on the iPhone was fantastic and useful and it didn't even have turn-by-turn directions.

      Could you do the things the iPhone could do on other devices? Sure. Could the average non-technical person do those things on other devices and not get incredibly frustrated? Doubtful.

    12. Re:Steve Jobs' products changed the world? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And while he was the leader in mp3 players and then smartphones, I am not sure that his designs were anything other that high-quality copies of what others had already done well before him.

      I have absolutely no clue as to why the first iPod got so popular - Rio had players with better hardware and features. Had the first gen actually been the Touch, then I could understand. but... Anyone with an explanation?

    13. Re:Steve Jobs' products changed the world? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      braun

    14. Re:Steve Jobs' products changed the world? by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      It's Jony Ive, not Ives. And he was working at Apple before Jobs returned, yet that management didn't recognise his talents nor inspire/permit him to turn them into breakthrough designs like Jobs did.

      Leadership is a talent, which the Jobs detractors here are ignorant of.

    15. Re:Steve Jobs' products changed the world? by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      If making the most successful MP3 player and most successful smartphone design was simply a matter of copying a Braun design, it's even more surprising that no one else did until after Jony Ive did.

      (The more design aware know that every good designer stands on the shoulders of the previous greats. As do artists of every other kind.)

    16. Re:Steve Jobs' products changed the world? by gnupun · · Score: 1

      There was nothing about the device itself that was really new, nothing that it could do which you couldn't do as well or better on another phone,

      Have you actually tried using a cellphone prior to the iphone? 5 to 7 tiny buttons are all you get to control the device. These multi-button controls are a lot slower than the iphone and require memorization and they are vastly limited in their capabilities and features.

      The iphone changed all that... vast number of functions available at a tap of your finger. Most of all, its screen was 3 times larger than a dumbphone. It was a game changer. Google cancelled their Android phone (which at that time looked like a blackberry phone) after seeing the iphone launch, and then copied the iphone.

    17. Re:Steve Jobs' products changed the world? by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Well that's one way of looking at it. And that belief came about because Apple had already delivered with the iPod and the iTunes store.

      A brand is a reputation. You can only have a desirable brand by having a history of delivering desirable products. That's the fact that the people who say "it's all marketing" or "it's all hype" miss.

    18. Re:Steve Jobs' products changed the world? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In front of every good designer is a mass murderer.

    19. Re:Steve Jobs' products changed the world? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      NASA already built space vehicles, GM already built the electric car. Tesla is hardly a mass-market automobile at between $70,000 to $130,000 each. How is Musk leading the pack?

      Jobs' dreams turned into real products and services for the average person, and were/are incredible successes. And what exactly has Musk built for the average person? Oh, right...nothing. What a genius.

  8. Except... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... Elon Musk isn't a marketing savant (fraud) and actually has some high god damn education in science and engineering and knows his shit unlike Jobs.
    Elon Musk is the marketing/charisma of Steve Jobs [without being a douchebag], and the technical prowess of the not so often talked about Steve Wozniak who deserves more rep than Jobs.

  9. Re:Never made an honest dime by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    None of his current enterprises has ever made a dime, nor do they have immediate prospects to do so.

    If SpaceX's production costs for Falcon 9 actually are what he says that they are, they have a prospect of making a profit with the sales they have already booked. It hasn't made a profit yet, in that it hasn't paid back the initial investment costs, but the numbers look good.

    One thing that does bother me a little is that all the successes of SpaceX get attributed to Elon Musk. They have a lot of hard working, very smart and creative people working for Space X, who have their accomplishments left in shadow because of the blinding glow of Musk's personal aura. It's not all Elon Musk!

  10. Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Electric cars were one of the FIRST automobiles. It wasn't until gasoline was able to be produced in greater quantities and cheaper because of "cracking" that the internal combustion engine took off.

    Musk is not an innovator. He is taking advantage of the latest battery technology (developed by others) and trying to produce an electric car - which has been attempted on an off for almost 180 years.

    Musk is a promotor just like Jobs.

    1. Re:Really? by binarylarry · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Oh so you can't be an innovator unless you completely invent every idea from scratch?

      That's so novel, you should write a book!

      --
      Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
    2. Re: Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Actually, musk has contributed a great deal Tesla.
      The same is true of spacex.
      While jobs would pick winners, musk has worked to make the winning products.

    3. Re: Really? by BasilBrush · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The emphasis on typography that led to the Mac OS UI and to desktop publishing was an input of Jobs to the direction of the product.

      Earlier than that, for all the slashdot hero worship of Woz, the Apple II wouldn't have been built had it not been for Jobs, and if it had it wouldn't have had a case, which means it wouldn't have been the breakthrough into offices that the Apple II was.

      The idea that Jobs just picked products, rather than had a significant part in forming them is moronic.

    4. Re:Really? by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 2

      To be fair to the original poster, he has a point. California had all electric cars in the 1970s. Even the all electric Chevy Volt was available before the Tesla. So, while the Tesla is an improvement, it's not innovative. Now, his idea for the tube railway thing, that could be innovative. His plan for Mars isn't innovative, colonizing Mars has been talked about for decades. However, there is no doubt that the technology that will be created to make it possible will be innovative. Of course, until that technology is actually produced and put into use, there won't be,by definition, anything innovative.

      So technically, Musk isn't an innovator, but instead a visionary.

    5. Re:Really? by haruchai · · Score: 3, Informative

      The Chevy Volt is NOT all-electric; it's only slightly different than a plug-in Prius.
      What Musk is doing is building the entire ECOsystem. Cars, batteries, high power charging stations. over the air updates, solar manufacturing & leasing.
      All of those things are already available but no one company has done as much and Tesla is TINY compared to the competition.

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    6. Re: Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The original Volt was all electric. It was pulled and the hybrid version replaced it. There was also a fuel cell version that was prototyped but not offered. All built on the volts modular chassis.

    7. Re: Really? by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 1

      He is not the first to control the entire production chain. Ford did it early on. And the Pennsylvania Railroad before that. That part of what Musk is doing is not innovative.

      However doing it with an electric car is new and is why he is visionary versus innovative. He has a vision of how this all could work and is executing that vision.

      Put differently, innovative is past tense, it is based on what you have already done. Visionary is future tense and is based on what you see as possibilities.

      I'm not putting him down. Being visionary is a much more difficult task to accomplish and see to fruition.

    8. Re:Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh so you can't be an innovator unless you completely invent every idea from scratch? That's so novel, you should write a book!

      I think you're being a little disingenious, but since you mentioned books... after reading several about Jobs, I am hard pressed to think of anything he invented from scratch.

      It's one of the reasons why after he came to Apple, programmer names were removed from under "About Us" in any application. This way in a person's head everything was attributed to Apple as a company, and Apple as a company was synonymous with Jobs. This also made it a little harder to headhunt specific people if you saw an application they had written, but this is a little silly considering how small in some ways that world was.

      I think your best bet when it comes to Jobs and invention would be design decisions, which shouldn't be summarily discounted at all and I'd wager many a product has died on the launchpad due to poor ones (including some of Jobs)... but at some point you're having to really stretch the definition of what an inventor is for the sake of lionazation and marketing.

      Aside question: Why is it never mentioned if Jesus and Joseph were decent carpenters?

    9. Re:Really? by tlhIngan · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Musk is a promotor just like Jobs.

      Well, they're both innovators and promoters and visionaries.

      They both innovated - Jobs by bringing GUIs to the masses and many other things by realizing what the masses want. (It's easy to bring something for a niche, but much more difficult to bring it to the masses). Musk brought innovative person-to-person payment system - send anyone money over the internet (he's a co-founder of Paypal, after all). Because until then, sending money meant you were basically a business, or were patient and did the whole money-order thing.

      And they both had visions on how things should work. Jobs was about computing and making lives better through transparent computers (computers that you didn't see, but did things for you in the background). Musk is seeing how to improve our lives and future. You may not be able to afford a Tesla now, but you know, electric cars are actually very practical machines and you're now able within reason to even drive with an electric car to your destination.

      Oh yeah, and both are salespeople because if you can't sell it, there's no point to even trying. Few things sell themselves, and most that assume they would, fail because of the hidden sales message.A few bad news articles and if you're not front and center managing the message, will easily spiral out of control. It's why Jobs made Microsoft invest $150M (message: If Microsoft invests in Apple, things aren't as bad as they seem). Or why Musk gets front and center when Tesla gets news, be it fires or negative reviews or whatever. Because if you're not dealing with the message, it's not going away.

    10. Re:Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      /. prior Electric cars were among the first automobiles. It was thought that they would be used for short range journeys, gasoline for medium range and diesel for long range.

    11. Re: Really? by ReallyShortNameLengt · · Score: 1

      The armour-piercing question, I think, is "If Steve Jobs did nothing really important at Apple, then why is his company running into major troubles without him?"

    12. Re: Really? by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      It's not.

    13. Re:Really? by werepants · · Score: 1

      I think you have your definitions twisted around. To innovate is to "make changes in something established, especially by introducing new methods, ideas, or products." Inventing something altogether or mostly new, like the hyperloop, is not innovation - it's invention. Innovation is more like what Apple did - taking something that already exists but packaging it and delivering it in a (hopefully) more successful form, by focusing on design and interface.

      A visionary, I think, is someone like Arthur C. Clarke, who could foresee possible applications of technology far before practical considerations made them possible.

      Musk is certainly an innovator (Tesla vehicles are a textbook example of innovation according to the definition above). He is also a visionary, in the sense that he conceives of and entertains possibilities that are far beyond what most people consider.

      I think what makes Musk unique, though, is that it is rare to find someone with both the innovative business mindset (like Jobs) and the visionary foresight (like Clarke) combined with the technical ability and intuition to get difficult problems solved where others have failed (like the Wright brothers, for instance).

    14. Re:Really? by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 1

      I don't disagree with your definition. However, with the Tesla, what is he innovating? There have been all electric vehicles prior to his. The technology he is using isn't being used differently than in those other vehicles. Yes, he is looking at building his own infrastructure, but that has been done before, too. That's not to dismiss what he is doing by any means.

      I also agree that the hyperloop is invention, not innovation. While it appears similar to a train or monorail, it really isn't. I would also agree that Arthur C. Clarke was a visionary but only because of his ability to invent and/or innovate, not because of his ideas.

      While being a visionary does include conceiving the possibilities, it is more than that. Jules Vernes is a visionary in that limited sense, but Musk is more than that. A real visionary is more than a dreamer but one whose dreams can change society. Take Japan and electronic devices. Many of those circuits were invented in the US by US engineers. Many Japanese companies were innovative in their production techniques to bring the cost down through mass production. However, only a handful of companies, not just Japanese were visionary on how those cheap circuits could transform society.

      Take the iPhone - prior to Jobs, there were mobile phones and there were data organizers and even phones that let you put your calendar and get your email and the like. The reason the iPhone was so successful as compared with other smart phone type devices was not the innovations that Jobs made but the vision he had with what could be and then choosing the various innovations to make that vision a reality.

      Somebody at Xerox was inventive and/or innovative in coming up with the mouse and GUI, but they didn't have the vision to see where Apple and Microsoft would take it.

      So yes, Musk is unique in that he is both visionary and innovator/inventor, but it is the visionary part that makes him notable.

  11. Since about 2012... by denzacar · · Score: 3, Interesting

    http://www.latimes.com/busines...

    His 2010 cameo in Iron Man 2 didn't hurt either, and neither did the use of SpaceX for filming of some scenes.
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/ve...

    It also helps that unlike Ellison his products are both physical and have direct practicality for most of the population so he is more easily associated with the inventor aspect of Tony Stark persona.
    Signature red color of his space-age car is another bonus.
    And so is the whole "rocket man" thing.

    In comparison, Ellison is more like Tony Stark BEFORE Iron Man.
    Yachting billionaire who collects cars, jets, islands and women and has a million dollar entertainment system which uses a swimming pool as a subwoofer, while his "charity" donations seem mostly to revolve around lawsuits.

    As for comparison to Steve Jobs...
    As the Iron Man 2 article above stated, Steve Jobs has "always been less Iron Man, more Willy Wonka".
    Who, while espousing such lines as "Do you want to sell sugared water for the rest of your life? Or do you want to come with me and change the world?" ended up selling overpriced toys.

    While Musk actually seems to be trying to actively fulfill the second part of that quote.

    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
  12. Please.. by PixetaledPikachu · · Score: 1

    Musk is way better in this area. Most of Job's worshipers are those who buy apple products. One only need to read articles about Musk to become his worshiper

    1. Re:Please.. by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      The difference here of course is that Job's products are affordable luxuries for most in the developed world. Tesla EVs are affordable to very few. So of course one is more owned han the other.

  13. Not until his signature fragrance... by ZecretZquirrel · · Score: 1

    is what all the boys are wearing.

  14. Mars is rubbish by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I mean, we got a planet we have not yet burnt into the ground to work with. Mars is a much worse starting point than Earth. And if we burn Mars through in the two centuries of industrialization it took us to start the downfall of Earth, what then? Interstellar colonialization happens in time frames that are much longer than how long we apparently plan our Earth to last.

    Really, even if interstellar colonialization and a burnt planet strategy is going to be a thing, we still have to make Earth last hundreds of thousands of postindustrial years to make that fly as a concept.

    1. Re: Mars is rubbish by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      Good lord. Between you far left weenies, combined with far right ( who in 1940's would be called NAZIs, correctly ), you are destroying america, if not the west.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  15. Don't have heroes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't idolize a celebrity businessman, athlete, entertainer, or politician, they'll end up disappointing you every time.

    1. Re:Don't have heroes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey, it worked for Elron Hubbard so it'll work for Elon Musk.

  16. There's a pretty massive difference by markass530 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Musk is more the Antithesis of Jobs

    http://www.teslamotors.com/blo...

    1. Re:There's a pretty massive difference by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Elon Musk's showmanship, straight-ahead smarts and far-out ideas have earned him a following that spans the geek spectrum — to the point that some observers see glimmers of the aura that once surrounded Apple's Steve Jobs. "

      Ahh, how soon we forget. I agree that Musk does have an aura about him. But Jobs merely had a "Reality Distortion Field" surrounding him - with heavy emphasis on "Distortion". There's serveral orders of magnitude of difference here. Much like trying to sell a $70K+ dollar car vs a $0.6K dollar iToy.

  17. This by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This! It's the dirty capitalists in Detroit (and worldwide) who have made cars more fuel efficient and reduced the carbon footprint significantly. The politicians have done nothing but lie and steal to get more power.

    1. Re:This by Noah+Haders · · Score: 2

      Not this. Fuel economy standards were fixed for 25 years, and the average fuel economy remained constant. Companies design to the standard. It's important to know what companies can achieve so you don't make impossible goals, but standards drive change.

    2. Re:This by iggymanz · · Score: 2

      Yes this.

      Standards were fixed? Irrelevant! They don't matter,the fuel economy of real vehicles in that time frame do. And reality shows the fuel economy of vehicles in the last 30+ years rising year after year:

      http://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/si...

      The only thing "fixed" in that link is the fuel economy of *imports*

      The new standards are merely the auto industry road map, made by engineers and codified by Congress.

    3. Re:This by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seriously did you think no one would look at the link?

      You call that 'Rising year after year'? Look again, several times it drops between years, and the total uptick other than the initial one is neglible.

      What happened in 92 to 93 when it dropped? Or 98 to 99 when it also dropped?
      It did not rise year after year. It did rise but almost all of the rise happened at the start when the standards when into effect.
      The remaining 'rise' is almost a neglible increase easily attributable to simple improvement improvement in basic technology.

    4. Re:This by Noah+Haders · · Score: 1

      Yes, the fleet averages improve year to year cuz the fleet is turning over and oldest cars retied. Mystery solved!

  18. Nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Musk invented nothing.

    And your slight and anger just shows that there is a cult around Musk - irrational emotonal outbursts are a sure sign of a cultist.

    "Oh my god! Someone criticized my HERO! Time for a flaming!"

    Here is what _I_ consider to be an innovator.

    Musk is just a salesmen.

    1. Re:Nothing by binarylarry · · Score: 2

      I'm not so much Cult of Musk as a strident Anti-Retard supporter.

      --
      Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
    2. Re:Nothing by gnupun · · Score: 2

      They're both innovators, with the blood testing inventor doing more work. Whereas Musk recognized a good idea and spent millions backing and managing the production of such cars.

      You do realize manufacturing cars requires a ton of capital. All inventions are kinda obvious once you seen them in action and know about their internals.

    3. Re:Nothing by pepty · · Score: 3, Informative

      Here is what _I_ consider to be an innovator.

      Musk is just a salesmen.

      Ok, I'll bite. What exactly did Holmes, or even the other folks as Theranos, invent? Microfluidic blood tests, DNA based tests instead of ELISAs, All that stuff was invented in the '80s and '90s.

      Have a look at her list of patents. Which actually present new ideas instead of combinations of well established technologies?

      http://patents.justia.com/inventor/elizabeth-holmes

      Musk took existing technology, improved it and recombined it until it could support real business plans.

      Holmes took existing technology, improved it and recombined it until it could support a real business plan.

      Good on both of them.

  19. More like Steve Wozniak with charisma by storkus · · Score: 0

    Unlike that showman Jobs who, as mentioned, just put the useful stuff in a pretty package and ended up turning it and a logo into a cult, The Woz actually did the real work, at least in the beginning, and he still is doing so today, yet still always in the background.

    Musk is Woz with charisma and business sense, or being like Jobs or Ellison with morals.

    Nor is Elon (yet?) a cult or fashion icon: his companies are not selling overpriced junk that people buy just because his name or his companies' name on them.

    (Digression: just looked at Ellison's picture on Wikipedia--he looks like a Hollyweird version of the Devil himself!)

    Oh, and I see the Obama cult also made an appearance in this section. How insulting it must be to Elon to be compared to Two-Face!

    1. Re:More like Steve Wozniak with charisma by StripedCow · · Score: 1

      This story is rated too complicated for a broad audience to understand.

      --
      If Pandora's box is destined to be opened, *I* want to be the one to open it.
    2. Re: More like Steve Wozniak with charisma by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      Woz and Allen. Both of those men actually made things. I view musk in the same vein as Allen or any of our previous aviation experts.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    3. Re:More like Steve Wozniak with charisma by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Woz hasn't done anything noteworthy since he left Apple in the 80s. His last patent was in 1981. He's only famous at all because he had the good fortune to have been motivated and guided by Jobs into designing the electronic elements of a desirable product in the 70s.

  20. Designing to the minimum by sjbe · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Fuel economy standards were fixed for 25 years, and the average fuel economy remained constant. Companies design to the standard.

    Quite so. Companies don't compete on fuel economy and fuel economy is usually about 20th on the list of things car buyers actually care about. So unless the government forces their hand either directly through mandated standards or indirectly through gasoline taxes, car companies are going to meet the fuel economy standards and not much more. I fully expect our current fuel standards to not be updated for another 20-30 years regardless of what might be actually achievable.

    It's important to know what companies can achieve so you don't make impossible goals, but standards drive change.

    Nothing in even the most absurd proposal for CAFE standards was technologically impossible and it is unlikely that it was economically impossible either despite protests from certain groups. We have the technology TODAY to make cars that get well over 100mpg or the electric equivalent. They would be quite different from what we are accustomed to seeing on the road but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. (Tesla is a good example) Any automotive engineer (and I am one) who tells you doubling average fuel economy in passenger cars is impossible is either lying or badly misinformed. Modern engines are far more efficient than those from 30 years ago but we've increased the horsepower so much that the net result is (almost) no change in fuel economy.

    1. Re:Designing to the minimum by Noah+Haders · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What's interesting is over the past 20 years OEMs made tremendous strides in efficiency, but instead of boosting MPGs they invested these gains into cars that were bigger and more powerful while meeting the same standards.

    2. Re:Designing to the minimum by iggymanz · · Score: 2

      Wrong, *standards* don't matter, the actual fuel economy of U.S. vehicles has risen year after year in the last 30+ years. That fact destroys your argument, you made up a world view between your ears that has nothing to do with reality.

      Obama's (actually Congress) new standards came from the auto industry, it is their roadmap. Your hero politicians accomplished nothing.

  21. ... and Ron Paul is laughing by damn_registrars · · Score: 0

    The cult of Elon Musk is not even remotely close to as devoted as the cult of Ron Paul. When Musk's followers declare their willingness to trumpet very average "accomplishments" as being earth-shattering - and to lay down their own lives to further his ambitions - then he will have an impressive modern cult. Until then he's just a rookie.

    --
    Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
  22. Musk is already far beyond Jobs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Musk is already far beyond Jobs for one simple reason: Jobs methods were EVIL: [1] Walled garden (a business strategy that's made me vow since 1982 to never use an Apple product), [2] overpriced, underpowered crap products that lure rubes in with pretty packaging, [3] vicious control freak personality-- see emails about non-talent-poaching deals, [4] suspicious jump to the top of liver transplant list in a state he'd never set foot in before, following earlier refusal of standard medical treatment. Not to mention personally ripping off Woz in the early days of their partnership.

    Yes, Jobs was a major, visionary business leader who helped a lot of Americans get rich-- but partially through immoral means. Musk shows you can accomplish the same things without being evil.

  23. Politicians make policy and change trajectories by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Of countries all the time. The moon landing, which was the result of Cold War posturing was nonetheless directed as a result of the Kennedy administration. The Manhattan project was created and allowed to go forward by FDR.

    And with President Obama he directed his administration to push fuel efficiency standards when he came into office.

    Now while you may not want to give "politicians" credit for scientific and engineering discoveries, it remains true in the US as it is in all countries, that if they refuse to allow engineers and scientists funding or legislation to pursue their goals their ability to bring their discoveries to fruition will be significantly hampered.

    So while Musk giving the world overpriced electric cars that have limited range, take over an hour to charge and are largely a status symbol among the rich is nice, he's not the reason electric cars will ultimately become mainstream.

    It'll be because of political decisions made by politicians allowing research into them to flourish.

  24. Tony Stark by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm sure you are aware, the Tony Stark persona was originally based on Howard Hughes, and since fundamentally the "movie version" is based on the comic book version, the movie version is also based on Howard Hughes.

  25. Apple's products did change the world by sjbe · · Score: 2

    They did? I sort of thought he just "invented" slightly tweaked things that already existed and respectively made the second most popular version of them, and then the most popular version of them.

    Without getting too hyperbolic about it, yes you could say Apple's products have changed the world. I'm old enough to remember the world before Apple computers. Yes they really did change things. EVERY PC, smartphone, tablet computer, and MP3 player you buy today was influenced in demonstrable ways by Apple. While we shouldn't overstate the importance of that, we should shouldn't understate it either.

    As an aside, you keep saying "he" as if Steve Jobs was personally responsible for them. He was the leader of the company that did these things. He gets a lot of credit but let's keep the credit to what he actually did shall we?

    At least with the computer you could say that he was the co-designer of the modern computer, designer because neither of them invented the idea just popularised and commercialised on the idea.

    You're going to find that very few ideas are truly original. That doesn't make turning them into a commercial success any less impressive. I'm not sure you appreciate how rare a success like Apple is. Steve Jobs genius (if that is the appropriate word) was in his business acumen and apparently his design chops. Those are important things and he used them as well as anyone I've ever seen. He had a vision and he got people to buy into it. That's what effective leaders do.

    And while he was the leader in mp3 players and then smartphones, I am not sure that his designs were anything other that high-quality copies of what others had already done well before him.

    Again, it isn't "he". It was Apple of which Steve Jobs was an important part. What Apple did was create the versions of those product categories that everyone else cribs off of. Do NOT underestimate the value and difficulty of that. Apple completely changed the game in smartphones. Same with the graphical interface. Same with the desktop laser printer. Where they've had the biggest effect is in software. The main thing that makes Apple products different and sets the apart is the software. (Mac hardware running Windows is no different than a Dell) You don't have to be an Apple fanboi (I'm certainly not) to appreciate what they've accomplished and the influence they've had.

  26. He's a nasty little man by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've often thought that fundamentally the world needs nasty little men. For example, I am not cut out to be a billionaire CEO "master of the universe" type. I'm too nice, not egotistical enough, and I like my family and private time. But the world needs Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Elon Musk, Andrew Canarge and John Rockefeller's of the world. Yea, they do bad stuff, but they create big stuff also. And yes, they need to be smacked down from time to time.

  27. Re: Never made an honest dime by WindBourne · · Score: 1

    You are right. It is not all musk. All of these companies count on top ppl. But, the original design of f9 was musk. Likewise, he is responsible for a number of manufacturing designs and innovations. Likewise, he has surrounded himself by engineers and in general, gotten rid of MBA's, who have become the bane of american businesses.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  28. What have you done? by sjbe · · Score: 1

    I agree, for all the praise people give him, all Jobs really did was be a guy that could get people to buy stuff.

    If you think that is all he did then you really haven't bothered to look or are cherry picking facts. Yes he was an outstanding salesman but only someone with an ax to grind would pretend that there was nothing more to the man. Could I sum you up in one sentence? I doubt it. Let's not make more of the man than what he was but let's not make less either, ok?

    He invented nothing, he treated his family and friends like shit, I'm not even going how he acted to his employees.

    And what have you invented that we should all be impressed by? Steve Jobs has his name on 313 patents. How many do you have? Steve Jobs founded Apple, Next and turned Pixar into a powerhouse. How many successful businesses have you founded? Just because he was not really an engineer doesn't mean that he didn't create anything. Business is a team sport and there is no one who denies that he had a big role in the development of the Macintosh, iPhone, iPad, iPod, the desktop laser printer, the graphical user interface and more. He didn't do it himself and people shouldn't talk as if he did. But his contributions are undeniable.

    Yes by all accounts he could be a colossal prick to other people. And yet a lot of people really liked him too. So perhaps the real story is a bit more complicated than you are insinuating? He could not have succeeded like he did if he was a d-bag to everyone around him all the time.

    1. Re:What have you done? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He could not have succeeded like he did if he was a d-bag to everyone around him all the time.

      well being a d-bag to everyone except people who could potentially help you, is the worst kind of dbag and that i'm afraid is what steve jobs was. a bad person, a wealthy one.

  29. Re:Never made an honest dime by captjc · · Score: 1

    One thing that does bother me a little is that all the successes of any company get attributed to the CEO. They have a lot of hard working, very smart and creative people working for the company, who have their accomplishments left in shadow because of the the CEO being the public face of the company. It's not all The CEO!

    FTFY. I mean, it isn't like Eric Schmidt wrote every line of Google, Gmail, and Youtube. Jeff Bezos didn't sit down and engineer the Kindle. And Steve Ballmer sure as fuck didn't build the XBox or write Office. Like it or not, these guys are the public faces of their companies, and in good times get all the credit and in bad times get all the blame.

    --
    Slow Down Cowboy! It's been 1 hour, 47 minutes since you last successfully posted a comment
  30. Missing economic incentives by sjbe · · Score: 2

    What's interesting is over the past 20 years OEMs made tremendous strides in efficiency, but instead of boosting MPGs they invested these gains into cars that were bigger and more powerful while meeting the same standards.

    Exactly. And the reason is that people don't shop for cars primarily by fuel efficiency because they have no economic reason to do so. Gas is (relatively) cheap and people like big cars that go faster than necessary with lots of frivolous bells and whistles. Fuel economy is nice to have but generally considered as an afterthought.

    Unless the government either mandates higher fuel economy standards or taxes gas prices until they are high enough to adjust buying behavior, then companies will build cars with the lowest possible fuel economy. We've seen this happen for the last 20 years. It's just an economic law of nature. Absent economic incentives people will do things that may not be in their own or in society's interest in the long run.

    I'm as guilty as anyone else. I drive a pickup truck for practical reasons but even the most economical pickup available tops out at just under 30mpg highway (currently RAM 1500 Ecodiesel). I'd happily drive something with better fuel economy but nothing exists. I suppose I could make do with a different type of vehicle but I don't have any economic incentive to do so. So I don't.

    1. Re:Missing economic incentives by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I'm as guilty as anyone else. I drive a pickup truck for practical reasons but even the most economical pickup available tops out at just under 30mpg highway (currently RAM 1500 Ecodiesel).

      I would not for a second recommend that you drive one, but ye olde VW diesel golf-based pickup can do better.

      WTF, "It's been 3 minutes since you last successfully posted a comment" ... I have great karma, what the fuck are you dingleberries (not you, the ones behind the scenes) doing to make slashdot grate today?

      "It's been 4 minutes since you last successfully posted a comment" seriously, did some posse just go back and downmod a shitload of my comments just old enough not to appear on my list thereof as I am not a subscriber?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  31. Made up "facts" by sjbe · · Score: 4, Informative

    Wrong, *standards* don't matter, the actual fuel economy of U.S. vehicles has risen year after year in the last 30+ years.

    Really? The facts say you are wrong. Average fuel economy barely budged between the early 1980s and 2007 when the new fuel economy standards were put in place. They started to creep up a bit in 2004 as fuel prices rose. After 2004 the average fuel economy has risen steadily due to a combination of higher fuel prices and increased mandated fuel standards. Now I'm no genius but I'm pretty sure that's a cause and effect relationship there. The fact that car companies are selling certain vehicles at a loss to ensure higher average fuel economy standards is proof positive that the standards are forcing the car companies to make more fuel efficient cars.

    Obama's (actually Congress) new standards came from the auto industry, it is their roadmap.

    The first increase in 2007 came under the Bush administration we've seen a steady increase in fuel economy since. In 2011 the Obama administration along with the major auto manufacturers came up with new CAFE standards that will take effect in 2017 and beyond.

    Got any more unsupported "facts" you'd like to make up?

    1. Re:Made up "facts" by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      link to the EPA in my other post trumps your rag, you lose

  32. Not Even Close to a Fair Comparison by organgtool · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Steve Jobs revolutionized personal music players and smartphones. Elon Musk is revolutionizing energy production, battery technology, ground-based transportation, and space transportation. His goals are way more ambitious than any of the goals of Steve Jobs. And even though he has only achieved wide-scale success on one of those goals so far, producing a car that is safe, efficient, luxurious, and fast is much more difficult than doing the same for a phone. In that regard, Elon Musk has already surpassed Steve Jobs and he's only getting started.

    1. Re:Not Even Close to a Fair Comparison by macsimcon · · Score: 1

      SolarCity? The Gigafactory (which hasn't even been built yet)? Tesla?

      The common denominator in all these businesses: tiny market share.

      And the iPhone, iPad, iPod? Huge market share.

      So, I guess Musk is a genius at making stuff nobody wants.

    2. Re:Not Even Close to a Fair Comparison by bledri · · Score: 1

      SolarCity? The Gigafactory (which hasn't even been built yet)? Tesla?

      The common denominator in all these businesses: tiny market share.

      And the iPhone, iPad, iPod? Huge market share.

      So, I guess Musk is a genius at making stuff nobody wants.

      Tesla Motors, Inc.'s Demand Is Growing Faster Than Production

      Model S has been an enormous success. Not only has the all-electric luxury sedan been outselling all comparably priced cars in North America in 2013, but Tesla is expecting sales to increase by more than 50% this year. Most surprising of all, however, is that Tesla is achieving this without spending any money on advertising.

      People want the car, but most people can't afford it and Tesla still can't build the car fast enough to keep up with demand. But I suspect you knew that. You also probably know that consumer reports is calling the Tesla Model S the best car it has ever tested. The Gigfactory is part of the plan to price the Model 3 such that the middle class can afford it.

      And you forgot to mention SpaceX which has single handily brought commercial satellite launches to the US. And supplies cargo missions to the ISS. And just won a bid for commercial crew to transport astronauts to the ISS. And have a launch manifest with over 40 launches on it worth over $4 billion dollars. In other words, SpaceX is in demand.

      --
      Some privacy policy Slashdot.
    3. Re:Not Even Close to a Fair Comparison by macsimcon · · Score: 1

      OK, here's how I define success: Apple. Toyota. Exxon. Products that average people want, can afford, and buy.

      Unlike SpaceX and Tesla, those companies didn't need government handouts and contracts just to survive. They actually have people running them who know what they're doing, and they have millions of customers who are willing to give them money for their products and services.

      Have you investigated SolarCity and PayPal? Massive complaints from customers and investigations from governments. Not exactly a model of ethical behavior or even good business.

      The Gigafactory is a taxpayer-funded boondoggle for now; like most of Musk's "successes" its real promise is way off in the distance, and completely unprovable.

      Tesla is not ranked among the Fortune 500. It has lost money for almost its entire existence. Not exactly a well-run company.

      If I made a car that cost $1B each, I could make it the fastest and safest car ever, and Consumer Reports would love it. But there aren't enough people on Earth who will buy such a car to make it profitable. This is the problem Tesla finds itself in: create one of the most expensive cars in history that only the top 1% will buy.

      Meanwhile, all the other big car companies are making plug-in hybrids and electric vehicles that average people can afford, and they will be around in twenty years when Tesla is just a failed memory.

      Hey, I love the P85D, but I can buy three Chevy Volts for less than the $130,000 I'd pay for one P85D. And I can drive the Volt anywhere in the world without worrying about finding a charging station. And by the way...where ARE all those promised charging stations (there is ONE in my county)? Yet another of Musk's tall tales that has yet to come true.

      Commercial space launches have been available well before SpaceX. What are they doing that's so innovative? Other than sucking at the government teat, I mean.

      And SpaceX's contract has been suspended.

      Musk is just a huckster, even more so when compared to Jobs.

    4. Re:Not Even Close to a Fair Comparison by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not your fault *opens arms for hug*

    5. Re:Not Even Close to a Fair Comparison by bledri · · Score: 1

      Clearly you don't like the guy but to call him a huckster is ridiculous. As is accusing him of "sucking at the government teat." Tesla got a loan and paid it back with interest (unlike GM that got partially "bought" by the US government, bailed out, and then sold back to the private sector at a substantial loss.) As far as tax credits, all manufacturers of EVs get them.

      You're upset that they build an expensive car to fund the development of less expensive ones? Your mad that 10%ers (not 1%), are funding the development of the Model 3? That bastard, using wealthy people's money to pay for the design and factories that the 50% will be able to buy. Musk spelled this out in 2006 in The Secret Tesla Motors Master Plan. And you're going to compare the P85D to a Volt? That's like being mad that a BMW M5 costs more than a Chevrolet Spark. I'm sorry you're not getting supercharger stations with lifetime free charging at the rate you want for a car you're not going to buy.

      As far as Commercial Crew goes, it was not cancelled, it was put on hold because SNC was upset about Boeing winning a bid and they filed a challenge. SpaceX's win was not contested. SpaceX's bid was the least expensive and their program is farther along then anyone else's. NASA temporarily halted the contract to review the challenge, but the hold has already been lifted and work has resumed. In 2017 SpaceX will be delivering astronauts to the ISS. And if you don't know what's "special" about SpaceX launch vehicles, you're not paying attention. They are already the least expensive LVs per kg plus they are self funding reusability research. In December they will attempt to land a first stage on a barge after launching CRS-5 to the ISS. Their mere existence as a less expensive LV provider has already forced competitors to cut prices. They are already succeeding in reducing the price of spaceflight, which is the whole purpose of SpaceX. And if they succeed at reusability, it will be a game changer.

      --
      Some privacy policy Slashdot.
    6. Re:Not Even Close to a Fair Comparison by sootman · · Score: 1

      > Steve Jobs revolutionized personal
      > music players and smartphones.

      Along with the GUI and the personal computer itself, but hey, don't let me stop you from cherry-picking facts to support your position.

      --
      Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
    7. Re:Not Even Close to a Fair Comparison by organgtool · · Score: 1

      I have heard people make these claims, but I was not at a maturity level to determine whether or not they were exaggerated at the time Apple released their first PCs. I do know that the GUI was largely invented by Xerox PARC but they failed to capitalize on it while Apple recognized the opportunity and seized it. However, while Apple may have had decent success with the PC in its time, I think Windows 95 was the first OS that really brought the modern GUI-driven PC into the vast majority of homes. And I say that as an vehement critic of Microsoft.

  33. "Innovating" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    No one here as of 13:11 EDT has mentioned exactly what Elon has innovated.

    what has he done?

    The way I see it is all of his worshippers have fallen for his hype and PR.

    The engineers and scientists at SPace X are doing all the work and innovating. Musk just funneled in his PayPal money.

    Tesla? BFD! Someone notices battery tech might be able to finally allow for a car with decent range and decides to raise money and start an electric car company.

    Do not get me wrong. I think it's awesome that he is making electric cars cool and acceptable to gear heads and not just to Green and crunchy people.

    But calling him an innovator? I don't think so.

  34. "Real coders (space)ship." by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Advancements not possible without a computer. But when the robots invent FTL, don't say you weren't warned !!!

  35. Wealth or intelligence by DaMattster · · Score: 1

    Do people idolize Elon Musk for his intelligence or wealth and success? I think the answer is that he has attained wealth and success that most people can only dream about. You may call me a troll, but I think this cult of Elon Musk only exists because of his vast wealth. Americans tend to place a whole lot of value on success as being wealthy and famous so a lot undeserved praise gets heaped on these types. I would council that simply because someone is wealthy, it is dangerous to accord them more respect. I'm not saying that Musk doesn't deserve the respect, but do we accord him more respect due to his wealth?

    1. Re:Wealth or intelligence by omtinez · · Score: 1

      I think that what you are missing here is that Elon Musk is a wealthy, intelligent geek. A billionaire with a physics degree? Of course that it's going to be praised by the more science-oriented subset of the population!

    2. Re:Wealth or intelligence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope. I think Musk is respected (not idolised by the majority) because of what he has done, not what he is worth.

      I don;t care at all how much money Musk has. I do care that he continues doing what he is doing.

  36. I wonder whether in the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...we'll point and laugh at prior generations' worship of men in the same way that point and laugh at theistic religious sorts today.

  37. Mars journey will be toughest nut by BoRegardless · · Score: 1

    Musks 'Mars Vision' has human physiological limits that are unknown.

    No one has proved that human eyes can survive the length of a space irradiated trip to Mars & back. All we know is lengthy stays in space degrade astronaut's eyes.

  38. Re:What exactly has Elon Musk innovated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Do you really so very much enjoy sucking the dick of a dead man as all that? Wow.

  39. Re:What exactly has Elon Musk innovated? by macsimcon · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Engineers reading Slashdot don't want to admit the truth: Jobs was a true visionary who directed his engineers into making great products.

    Sorry, the truth hurts.

  40. Re: Never made an honest dime by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's barely any Elon Musk. It's people who design and build things. It's people who did basic research ages ago.

    Musk started one of the dirtiest companies in the history of the internet, uses that to build a niche car company and a space company that is busy reinventing stuff the US did 50 years ago (therefore without the cost of that basic research) and techies and hipsters worship him for reasons my thinking brain can't even begin to comprehend.

  41. What exactly has Elon Musk innovated? by Kartu · · Score: 2

    I'm glad you didn't mention iPad. Remember the expensive devices Microsoft was pushing in late 90th?

    For me, and I'm pretty sure for most owners of the pocket PC's in early 2000-s transition from "Pocket PC" => "Pocket PC + Phone" was more than obvious.
    The only thing that was missing, was cheap enough tech.
    Apple was not the only company working on it.

    Multi-touch => pitch to zoom and the likes is obvious too, we had that back in 90th.

    Musk, however, managed to create electric car market, when car manufacturers were saying, nah, maybe a decade later.

  42. Re: Never made an honest dime by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You are right. It is not all musk. All of these companies count on top ppl.
    But, the original design of f9 was musk.

    Citation needed.

    To a source other than Elon Musk.

  43. Re:What exactly has Elon Musk innovated? by ColaMan · · Score: 1

    Have you got a lisp? Because "90th" sure sounds like one.

    It's 'nineties' (90's) , not 'nineteeth' (90th) :-P

    --

    You are in a twisty maze of processor lines, all alike.
    There is a lot of hype here.
  44. Elon Musk much more visionary by Eravnrekaree · · Score: 1

    If Jobs had not helped make the iphone, I am sure someone else would have made something similar and just as good, and already were. I have doubts of someone would be doing electric cars and SpaceX, in quite the same way that Elon Musk is doing them.

  45. Out of reach of the common people by HuguesT · · Score: 1

    Tesla cars are interesting, but their impact is currently limited. The cars are simply too expensive. We'll have to wait and see if the impact of Tesla can change the industry. Other Elon Musk endeavours are also too early to tell. SpaceX is already going to space, but as others have commented, low Earth orbit is not really space yet. This is the cosy neighbourhood of our home. Getting to Mars and beyond is currently nothing but a dream.

    It is too early to compare Musk to Jobs. In spite of its many documented faults, Jobs had the drive to start and set Apple on the path to spark the personal computer revolution in the 1970s, particularly with the Apple ][. Recent Apple products are quite nice for some but this is the earlier feat that matters. Many other companies tried to do the same thing at the same time and did not meet the same success. The IBM PC was a late comer and got started after Apple and others had demonstrated that producing personal computers made business sense.

  46. What exactly has Elon Musk innovated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's pretty ironic that you say Jobs made such a huge impact by bringing existing technology mainstream, and then decry Musk for bringing much more complex technology mainstream. Elon Musk is ushering in the era of the electric car after all others have failed. Tesla has done more for the acceptance of electric vehicles than any other company.

    Jobs didn't create the modern personal computer. He, like Microsoft, built a huge business using Xerox's creative and technical advancement. He created a great *marketing* philosophy. He never really solved any technical problems though, nor did his company. There were also multiple touch screen phones before the iphone and it's easy to see the gradual transition of technology to what we have today with smartphones. Anybody who even remotely followed phone technology at all would've predicted something like the iphone, they just couldn't predict the exact time.

    The electric car? Honestly I wouldn't have predicted them being viable in my lifetime.
    Paypal? They're still dominating online payments. They'd been around for a long time before any viable competitors even emerged. In fact they started in 1998 and have only really had any competition to speak of in the last 2 years. As a comparison, the first iphone was released in 2007 and it's already been reached and surpassed by multiple companies, to the point that half the features shown for the iphone at the keynotes are just attempts to catch up to Samsung or Google features. Bigger screen? Yawn. Different keyboards? Interesting if it happened years ago. Multi-tasking? Only 5 years late.

  47. There's a substantial difference! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Steve Jobs couldn't build a phone with a replaceable battery. Now, if Elon Musk could make a Tesla that could go 500 miles on a charge, he's be The Man!

  48. In Steve's own words + by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1
    1. Re:In Steve's own words + by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Note that Xerox did not "bring the GUI to the consumer".

      And the extent to which Lisa and Mac OS was like Xerox Star is vastly overexagerated. Later GUIs such as Windows and the various Linux ones were derived from Mac OS, not Star. They copied features that were invented for Mac OS and were not in Star.

      Love your Leaf as you might, it has nothing to do with Elon Musk. Even if you don't use any Apple products, you are far more affected by what Jobs did that anything Elon Musk has done.

  49. Light pickups by sjbe · · Score: 1

    I would not for a second recommend that you drive one, but ye olde VW diesel golf-based pickup can do better.

    The old Rabbit pickups are pretty hard to find in good shape since most have long since rusted away. They also don't have enough cab space for my particular needs - I need a crew/extended cab. There are some light pickups sold in Europe that have better fuel economy than anything available in the US but we seem to have an allergy to good fuel economy in a pickup on this side of the pond.

  50. it's all about advancement of society by recharged95 · · Score: 1

    Guys, it's advancement of society based on our social judgement.

    Gates, Jobs, Brin and Page and similar folks will be found by history to be the Henry Ford's of our time. Addressing problems of the many by bringing forward solutions of the affluent to everyone (e.g. bring access to the masses).

    Musk, Bezos, maybe, just maybe Zuckerberg (or likely not) will be found by history to be the Howard Hughes and Disney's of our time. Addressing pure world problems by tackling it with new approaches (e.g. a new way of thinking).

    Both groups, still, use disruption and innovation as their tool much like their fore-bearers.

    I'm still waiting for the next Einstein--I'm yearning for a new way of thinking in these times, an unorthodox way.

  51. Musk vs Jobs by cowdung · · Score: 1

    Jobs took on the pc industry and lost. But helped introduce a lot of great technologies in the PC industry. They also got it started.
    Jobs took introduced the GUI that was largely ignored until Windows was popularized in the early 90s.
    Jobs took on the music industry and unblocked the online music market.
    Jobs took on the cellphone market and beat the incumbents.
    He created the tablet market (even though MS created it first).

    Musk revolutionized online Payments with PayPal.
    Musk took on the Car industry and unblocked Electric Cars, something consumers want but Big Oil hates. Today everyone dreams of having an electric car.
    Must took on the Energy market with SolarCity. Some success but nothing revolutionary.
    Musk took on the entrenched, overpriced, bureaucratic, an dead US Space industry and brought it back to life. He's taken the lead in developing cheap alternatives to orbit.

    Jobs ultimate success moment was the iPod / iTunes, the creation of a toy and fashion accessory. And its follow up toy/fashion accessory the iPhone and the iPad.
    Musk may well be remembered as the guy that gave us electric cars and the guy that got us to Mars (TBD) and gave the little guy a key tool to start an online business (ie. the eBay killer app)

  52. You're just as wrong as he was. by cbhacking · · Score: 1

    Touchscreen smartphones existed for years prior to even *rumors* of the iPhone's development. The key differences in the iPhone's user experience were:

    Technologically: Multitouch, rather than stylus or fat-finger+buttons. The tech for capacitive multitouch screens already existed, but it wasn't being applied to any kind of even vaguely mass-market device. Styluses provide better precision and can be used with minimal disruption even on very small screens, but you need a place to stow them (you'll lose them anyway, though) and resistive touchscreens don't do multitouch so intuitive gestures aren't an option.

    Design-wise: Consumer-oriented UI, rather than trying to maximize productivity. Earlier smartphones near-universally had physical keyboards or some form of stylus-driven text input. They could do email (much better than v1 iPhones, in most cases), schedule conference rooms (and track your meetings), maybe edit documents. The iPhone could watch YouTube videos (even today, that is most commonly not a productive use of time; back then it was nearly pure entertainment) and play music. The other smartphones could browse the web well enough to look up technical documents or download apps. The iPhone couldn't run third-party apps at all, but it could browse the web well enough to use Facebook.

    I do not personally care for Apple's products (OS X is fine aside from some quirks which I dislike no more than I dislike the equivalent quirks in every other OS/desktop environment, but I don't care for iOS or for their hardware design, and yes I've used an awful lot of MacBook* machines from their earliest days to their latest releases). I am actively opposed to the direction they are trying to take the computer market, where lockdown and "controlling the user experience" are the orders of the day. However, I will neither attempt to paint their introduction of the iPhone as the business-as-usual progress of the smartphone world, nor let lie unchallenged your bullshit claims and implications that "prior to the iphone... 5 to 7 tiny buttons [were] all you [got] to control the device." or that earlier [smart]phones were "vastly limited in their capabilities and features."

    Yes, the iPhone was a game-changer. However, it was not nearly so amazing as you seem to think (do you not remember how absurdly limited the early iPhones were? No apps, limited to EDGE speeds even though other smartphones already used 3G, not even a copy/paste capability). However, it was targeted on the mass market, advertised to that market, and showed the other manufacturers of high-end mobile phones that the time had come to release a smartphone for the masses. Apple rode the wave of their initial success with updates that addressed many of the weaknesses of the platform, and gained the early-mover advantage of this new wave of smartphones. It made them rich, and it's an unanswerable question what the world of smartphones would look like today without Apple except that it would probably be both different and smaller. I daresay it would not only exist, though, but that somebody else would have realized the huge, untapped market opportunity. Maybe it would have been Nokia (something Maemo-derived?), maybe RIM/Blackberry (BBM is hugely popular in many parts of the world, even now), maybe Palm (remember them?), maybe even Microsoft, maybe somebody we've never heard of at all!

    So yeah, I give Apple (and Jobs) credit - both good and bad - for the direction the smartphone market has gone... but they didn't create that market, the iPhone wasn't better in every way than the phones that came before, and the things you say are either ignorant or revisionist. Yes, I used smartphones before the iPhone. They had many bad points, but none of the things you said accurately described those phones. The jump to the iPhone from what was already available at the time isn't nearly as big as you imagine, though it was undeniably very significant.

    --
    There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
  53. Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...I'm all for the space exploration part. That's certainly cult worthy. Love SpaceX. I totally don't get the Tesla car cult though. The original cool car is gone, replaced with an ugly overpriced version now of dubious practicality.

  54. Mars natural resources by Daniel+Hoffmann · · Score: 1

    I keep hearing about this "colony on Mars" stuff, but we don't need to go out of earth because there is not enough space for all the people, there is plenty of space to build more cities available. We need to do it because we need more natural resources, do Mars has arable fields and water for them? Oil? Gold, silver, iron, aluminum? Rare earth minerals?

    To me asteroid mining seems far more interesting.

  55. I must be completely out of touch but.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I must be completely out of touch but seems like Steve Jobs was quite a moron, I really don't think i'd want to be the guy labeled to take his mantle. I think we're tainting the Musk here a bit.

  56. There are several thins wrong with this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is for the below reasons and more that I believe the comparison between Musk and Jobs is highly flawed.

    1. Nothing Jobs did, nothing Apple put out changed the world, all of it was done before as well if not better than the Apple product.
    2. Elon Musk is actually creating new things and cares a great deal about the future while Jobs apparently did not (Apple during Jobs' reign was named the least green company on earth)
    3. Jobs took existing devices put them in a shiny package and did some amazing advertising while Musk is designing and building things that are really new and different and is adding as much tech as possible to them.
    4. Jobs had 1 company Musk has 2 companies, is on the board of a third and last I knew he was considering starting another company.
    5. Musk has already completely changed the prospect of purchasing online with Paypal, Jobs only ever had Apple.

  57. Re: What exactly has Elon Musk innovated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    LOL! Are you DELUSIONAL? Before Musk, yes, there were EVs, but (almost) nobody wanted them, most people thought they were nothing more than large golf karts with the same kind of acceleration... what he did was hone the entire concept... BORING? Are you DELUSIONAL? The Model S received the highest marks in the history of Consumer Reports... not just for EVs... not just for luxury cars... not just for sedans. Any 7-passenger SEDAN that can do 0-60 in 3.2 seconds... which is FASTER than a Porsche Panamera, and the majority of high - end sports cars... that can outrank ANY other cars in crash tests... that can be driven cross - country for free, for the life of the car... that is not boring, fella. That is nothing more than you looking at a zebra, and calling it a giraffe.

    Musk has the full and complete support of every single person working for him, in ANY of the several gigantic companies he runs.

    The same could never be said of those working for Jobs: they have been paid as close to minimum wage as he could manage, and those that I knew that worked for him always felt unappreciated.

    I know lots of employees for Tesla, Solar City, and SpaceX, and none of them would ever want to work elsewhere.

    Innovation? Musk designed a "skateboard" crammed with the best batteries he could find... that gave the car a "frunk" in front, and a trunk in back, and still has 7-passenger room for a full - out sports car. Ask any
      driver just how "boring" a 0-60mph acceleration is.

    Try to find any Tesla or SpaceX or Solar City employee who is trying to find employment elsewhere... compare that to the people working in Apple stores. Jobs was known as a taskmaster, and horrid to work for.

    Sorry, I'm no fan of Jobs. Musk may not be perfect, but is head and shoulders over the ghastly ghost that was Mr. Jobs.
    Bill Dale, Los Angeles

  58. Musk Innovated, Jobs Devolved by HannethCom · · Score: 1

    My grandmother was given a iPod. One of the ones with the "innovative" wheel. She never has learned how to use it. A year later my aunt gave her a Creative Zen. Though the Zen was something like 1/5th the size, my grandmother was able to use it no problem. Creative labs had the Jukebox and the Nomad before the iPod. The Nomad could play MP3s, FM radio and could record sound. Their products were easier to use, cheaper, more features and better built. They just didn't have the great marketing of Apple.

    For phones you just have to look at Palm and Nokia. Both had touch phones with nice interfaces and more features before Apple. Actually Apple basically stole the Palm interface. Again, Apple had better marketing.

    You look at the iPad. Many, many, many tablets came out before it. Though in this case it was the interface and marketing that made them come out on top.

    What did Apple innovate on? Marketing. That or they think innovate means to take from other people, make it worse, but prettier.

    --
    Microsoft, Apple, Google, Amazon what's the difference? All steal money from devs and control with walled gardens.