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Four Dutch Uberpop Taxi Drivers Arrested, Fined
An anonymous reader writes with news that authorities in the Netherlands have arrested four drivers sharing their car for money through the Uberpop app. The drivers were then released with a fine of EUR 4,200 (USD 5,300) each and further threatened with additional fines of EUR 10,000 (USD 12,600) for each time they might be caught doing it again. While similar bullying applied to short rentals of private rooms through sites like Airbnb hasn't had the same success so far the thoughts go to the fined drivers, hoping they won't ever be caught carrying their grandmother to the supermarket then have to explain how they dared. Uber says it will "fully support" the affected drivers."
It's not legal just because you saw it on the internet.
American Liberalism?
What in the...have you not been paying attention for the past 200 years?
What kind of person bills his grandmother for taking her to the supermarket? Jeezz...
Repeat after me: "it's against the law to drive people around for money without the proper credentials".
I wouldn't trust the company to have my back. I may be a bit gullible and trusting, but I know enough to know that Corporate America will fry you in the name of money or image perception.
Just because you order through an app doesn't make it any different than all the other illegal taxis that have always been there. Not having to bother about license, insurance, knowledge and driver background checks makes you competitive, as all black market alternatives.
The Netherlands has one of the highest quality of life ratings in the EU, even Forbes agrees with that but tacks on economic opportunity, and a fully funded pension system:
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/10/12/business/no-smoke-no-mirrors-the-dutch-pension-plan.html
I guess thinking long term and discussing policies makes society more enjoyable than participating in a race to the bottom Just because uber wants to have workers with no risk/employment obligations...
While similar bullying...
Enforcing laws is bullying?
He borrows my car once a month to drive his grandma to do her monthly shopping and she usually gives him some money. More for him being her grandson than being her driver, but still.
And I could be in for facilitating that crime!
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
How many uber drivers would ever take a short run like that, except maybe with quadruple surge pricing? Ain't worth their time.
Who posted this? An investor in Uber?? I applaud the Dutch government for taking action against schemes like Uber and Airbnb which are trying to profit by pitting the rest of us against each other in a battle-royale "race to the bottom." There is such a thing as too much competition, too much "free market." People need to be able to earn a decent living, and with unskilled jobs this requires wage controls and price controls. Free markets are only optimal for exploiting resources (such as pulling oil out of the ground); they are not optimal for environmental sustainability or maximizing quality of life.
The level of astroturfing for Uber is getting ridiculous. I was sympathetic at first, because I can see how the existing monopolies are bad, but:
a) They aren't even trying to change the laws, they're just ignoring them. There are some laws that are so bad civil disobedience is a valid tactic. This is not one of those laws, and even then, when you do civil disobedience you're supposed to *accept* the legal punishment, because you *did* break the law.
b) They're astroturfing like crazy to frame the debate as "the common man versus the big bad taxi monopolies" when it's really "big international web-based corporation versus big local corporations". I don't care how many times you make sockpuppet comments about it, nobody's getting arrested for driving their grandma to the grocery store. People are getting arrested for running unlicensed taxicabs.
Licensing taxis is a good thing. The current laws may be overly-restrictive to protect existing businesses, but the spirit of the law is good. Uber? You're not. Any sympathy I once had is gone, purely because of your PR tactics. I was already unlikely to be a customer (I *have* my own car), but now I'm definitely not going to.
Life's not all about cheap dope and Eastern European hookers. Native Dutch have been leaving the Netherlands for years.
"Last year, 144,175 people emigrated, the paper says, quoting figures from the national statistics office CBS. In 2011, nearly 134,000 people left and in 2010, 121,000."
http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/a...
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
We have a separate class of 'Licensed Hire Vehicles' which are not as flexible as taxis - you have to book them rather than hail on the street. This does require explicit registration of the vehicles, but I've seen one with 'Uber' flashes, so it seems to work. This is a good solution for people who want to make a real living out of Uber, rather than just occasional.
http://green.autoblog.com/2007...
is an alternative outcome - registration to avoid London's congestion charge (for driving in the streets of much of central London)
The vested interests will also complain about fair competition. The problem with that is you can't stop more efficient businesses forever. Holding them back too long creates more problems when the crash finally comes
In the end the laws are just behind. There are all this under used goods and services in the cities. (Cars idle all day at work, rooms empty while people are out of town). Before the internet it was too inefficient to match a user with the seller. This is no longer true. Fix the laws and productivity of resources will increase. Heck even the city government needs to change and allow filing of business sales taxes online for small scale stuff.
Remember, this is inevitable anyways over the long term.
Life's not all about cheap dope and Eastern European hookers. Native Dutch have been leaving the Netherlands for years.
"Last year, 144,175 people emigrated, the paper says, quoting figures from the national statistics office CBS. In 2011, nearly 134,000 people left and in 2010, 121,000."
http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/a...
To put this into perspective, the Netherlands has a population of 16.8 Million people. 150,000 aren't even 1% so that's pretty normal for emigration. Hardly the crisis you're making out.
I'd be willing to bet a good proportion of those would be Dutch retiring to some place warmer with cheaper prostitutes like Thailand (Thailand seems to be the go-to place for European retirees, Americans usually end up in the Philippines, we Australians have infested both places).
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
And yet net migration remains positive. In 2013 144,175 people left and 197,241 came. So a little over 50k people decided it was a better place to live overall. Helps if you get both numbers.
liability issues do you want to be a victim and be left to fend for your self?
http://www.theverge.com/2014/3...
In the end the laws are just behind. There are all this under used goods and services in the cities. (Cars idle all day at work, rooms empty while people are out of town). Before the internet it was too inefficient to match a user with the seller. This is no longer true.
If your car is "underutilized" while at work, feel free to leave your keys in your unlocked car. You can leave a note and post about it online and ask people to return it with a full tank by a certain time. If you are sitting in your car all day while at work driving custom bus routes for fun, feel free to pick people up. If you charge for the service, you are a taxi driver and must follow local laws. Before you object, why should I be restricted from performing surgery without a license when you want to be a taxi driver without one? At least I'm only likely to kill poorly informed clients, not them, myself and people eating at a sidewalk cafe if I screw up.
50k found it better than Syria, Somalia, Iraq and other war torn countries they are escaping ;)
Buck Feta.
Buck Feta. You know what to do.
fuck off and stop telling other people what they're allowed to do?
I mean yeah this is slashdot but it feels like it's been quiet a while since I read such an opinionated summary here. How can you publish that crap? Oh right. Slashdot.
If a train station is a place where a train stops, what's a workstation?
It very much is, unless you work for the Dutch government or the established taxi cartels like TCA.
Dutch people are sick and tired of being over regulated and over taxed. It is a bloody insult that you need a permit to drive someone from A to B *IN YOUR OWN PROPERTY*. And is no less than a crime that Dutch government thinks it is OK to take over HALF of your income. 52% if you make a decent living, and all that to pay for those annual 50K 'positive' immigration of people who add nothing to Dutch society. That's modern slavery for the Dutch!
To Terminate, or not to Terminate, that's the question - SCSIROB
The military? Don't be ridiculous. The Europeans don't like soldiers, when there's a war on their backyard they pressure the US into taking care of it and then publicly denounce them. It would never come to this, disobeying a European government would get you deported to a concentration camp very fast.
is that shit illegal? If so what's the difference. Backpackers have been doing that for years and no one complains. Add money to the equation and now it's an issue.
Wow - about being completely wrong....
Those 52% are only for the wealthiest people with a lot of private estate, the top of the chain so to say...
Normal midclass people pay around 30%, but that money goes to welthcare, dykes, roads and infrastructure and so on..
Also - if you are doing work (it does not matter if you are using your own property for that), you have to pay taxes over the money you earn. If you try to avoid taxes you going to get burned. And also - when you do work, you have to get an licence to do so. Trying to avoid the cost for that by doing that work without licence, will earn you an fine...
I am the first to say that these licences are expensive, but try to do the same in -let's say- Londen, and you are in for a nasty surprise...
Your own property? yes, feel free to drive without a permit *ON* your own property. Public roads aren't such.
Driving unregistered taxis are illegal in most of europe. A private company writing an app does NOT change the laws.
Operating a taxi in most of Europe requires a taxi licence, a criminal background check, a "knowledge" test plus additional road safety requirements for driver & car. Uber is not exempt from this and if drivers don't meet the requirements they're going to be treated like any other unlicenced driver and fined. Sucks to be them but its not bullying. These laws existed before Uber turned up and if the company and their drivers didn't bother to do the due diligence then whose fault is it when they run afoul of them?
It is a bloody insult that you need a permit to drive someone from A to B *IN YOUR OWN PROPERTY*.
Thing is, a taxi is usually treated as a form of public transport. The standard that you the driver and your vehicle are held is consequently that much higher. That's why the regulation exists.
It's bizarre that you conflate the issue with how much tax someone might pay on their wages.
Wrong again.
In the Netherlands, you may pay 30% taxes, but on top of that come contributions to the welfare system, since you are insured against unemployment by law.
Typically, the average worker cost the employer about 3 times as much as the employee will receive netto on their bank account. This because employers pay a large amount of healthcare costs and other things.
So, for the average worker, they will see their salary `taxed` by about 65-70%. Just, they don't call it tax but insurance fees. As your income climbs, taxes raises but social security fees are capped. So yes, someone with a 200k income or more pays in procents less taxes and fees.
On topic. The Netherlands are killing all kind of active entrepreneurship. Seems only multinationals are welcome. Small businesses are not appreciated here, and even if you succeed, taxes and (local) governments will make your live miserable by regulations. Uber is just the latest example in this. Meanwhile, only few people take taxi's because no-one can or is willing to afford them, partly because their is no competitive market since its all being regulated. Paying 30 euro for a 2 km trip is not uncommon, and that's not even night tariff.
A glitch a day keeps the bugs away.
Astonishing. Dear /., you're in trouble.
What if a licensed taxi driver would use the app to make some extra money in his spare time?
he has all the requirements, but is still "stealing customers", would this also be against the law?
Fuck off and die please. The world could do with less PVV voting scum.
"I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
Those 52% are only for the wealthiest people with a lot of private estate, the top of the chain so to say...
Wrong. The 52% tax bracket starts at € 56.532.
Regardless, 52% is far too much for any income.
It was very obvious this was going to happen. Authorities even announced they would take action, and Uber has been very public about going to start this service and that they would pay any fines.
I don't know what the playbook of Uber and the transport inspection services are, but it is obvious that for both sides have these fines as part of it.
This makes it possible for Uber to fight it out in the courts, and will likely trigger discussion in the parliament that may lead to changes in the laws.
Nah, we are the society, it's our damn job decide how WE (including you) live around here. Take a ship over the ocean if you want to live free. Guess that's gone also. Well ,there is always somalia if you want to live outside civilized society without the evil government.
And to add to that the taxi's in Amsterdam are run by the police in every way except legally. The police work for Ajax and Heineken. Their main function is to destroy any new criminal acts or people muscling in on somebody's scam. Ergo no Uber.
"Kill 'em all and let Root sort 'em out"
Don't forget Morocco and Turkey. A lot of Dutch emigration is actually remigration. A large number of those 16.8 million Dutch are immigrants, who weren't born in the Netherlands and still hold their original nationality. Add to that a limited command of the Dutch language, the possibility to take your pensions with you, and the difference in purchasing power, the climate, and it's easy to see why.
On-topic because the arrests were made in Amsterdam, where a significant fraction of taxi drivers are from Moroccan and Turkish descent.
The worst Uber car I've ever been in was cleaner, newer, and driven by a more pleasant and friendly driver than the best taxi I've ever been in.
Uber is eating the cab companies' lunch because they're offering a SUPERIOR service.
TCA competes with Uber, and Uber itself isn't banned. Uberpop is competing with licensed, insured drivers, and *that* is what's banned.
And the 52% tax rate is an exception. 80% of the population pays between 36% and 42% max, and another 10% pays 52% over less than half their income.
They were not arrested for being uber drivers, they were arrested for being Jews and for being outside without wearing the mandatory yellow star. In Belgium they take the ERG (Europaeische RasseGesetzen) seriously. The goal of the EU is the protection of the European Volkgemeinschaft, after all.
Haha, that's the most clueless reply I've seen here in a while. Dope and hookers are mostly consumed by tourists here, but I guess that's about all you know about The Netherlands.
It would do you well to look into The Netherlands a bit further. You will find it's one of the happiest populaces in the world, rates consistently top5 in quality of healthcare, life, society, and many such categories. Since the rest of Europe is so close, it's not that exceptional for the elderly to spend their last days a place a bit sunnier.
Read it again. He wrote "IN" your own property. Meaning his vehicle.
Ah, the followers of fuhrer Geert Wilders are reporting in. For the non-Dutch readers, his main (and nearly only) party program is that everything that goes wrong is the muslims fault.
For some bankers and other money-grabbing "managers" I would say it is far to little.
"the thoughts go to the fined drivers, hoping they won't ever be caught carrying their grandmother to the supermarket then have to explain how they dared"
Unless they're planning on charging granny for the trip to the supermarket, this isn't relevant.
Of course you would. Anyone who makes more money than you is evil and should pay for your next vacation.
Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
You are not alone in that. Jalousy is a popular motivation for tax.
I don't think that's his point. It's more to do with the stabbing and murdering of people who criticise Islam, like Theo van Gogh. It's the fact that a female critic of Islam, Ayann Hirst Ali, was "no great loss because her opinions were polarizing" which is European liberal speak for don't criticise other Muslims. Indeed, it's a kind-of psychosis in Europe and elsewhere, such that authorities in the UK regularly and as policy let Muslim men molest and abuse thousands of children in cities like Rotherham because they feared criticising the culture the abusers came from (almost all Muslim) more than they cared for the welfare of these British (almost exclusively white) children.
I ask you, in what respect is liberalism not disappearing up its own behind on this and many other issues? It's a disgrace.
Luckily not in governments as they would be net positive then instead of flat broke...
This is blinging
Uber isn't small by any means. Fuck off, shill.
Because of laws.
Why are laws?
Just as you can't sell any service without the proper licence and not being the correct legal entity.
Why do undue barriers to obtaining "the proper licence" and becoming "the correct legal entity" continue to exist?
See it as selling alcohol in a dry county.
Why do dry counties continue to exist?
It is always "our rules" and the Dutch have tlll now decided against it.
When was the most recent poll?
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about mate. "Emigration" does not mean "Leaving your land for all eternity without ever returning": Our INmigration rate is slightly higher than the EMigration rate.. and if you think on hundreds of thousands of poor Mexicans coming here you are wrong, in fact the bulk of the emigration are RE-inmigrantes; The very ones that went away and come back.
The reasons for Emigration here are: Young people who traditionally go a year or two abroad, people who go to study abroad and people who go to LIVE a few kilometers away to Germany and Belgium (this is a small country mate).
And finally another important group of "Native Dutch" emigrants are Dutch of Morokkan and Turkish origin who go back to live in their country of origin (Elderly) and young people born here but who have the opportunity go to to live to Morokko.
And finally there is a HUGE group of elderly and pensionists of all ethnic origins that go to live in the south of Europe for rather obvious reasons. Hint: Despite the idea that USians may have we don't have tropical beaches nor snowy mountains.
So that I have no idea what point you were trying yo make, but whatever it was: We happen to have internet too here in Good Old Holland (1)...
1) Yes, this is written from the very Holland, Noord-Holland to be precise, so spare me your display of geographical knowledge fresh from Wikipedia
-- 29A the number of the Beast
Not necessarily "limited knowledge..." but mate, for many people having the opportunity to live in a warmer country and buying a decent sized house is enough of an incentive to to go live to the land of their ancestors. And don't forget Benidorm,
-- 29A the number of the Beast
And whores are way more abundant in Nevada (or wherever the state were it's free) than here. Not so speak about Germany. Even their weed-laws are less restrictive than ours. Heck, they were already better with medical marijuana legislation, now it's almost free in several states with more population and several times larger (Washington and Colorado, AFAIK). And talking about inmigrants: I have a new neighbour freshly immigrated from... The USA :)
-- 29A the number of the Beast
The last thing a Wilders fan would say is that we live in a happy country.
And you are wrong: Geert not only blames the Muslims, he also has the Leftist-Church, the Polish and East-Europeans (except his wife, of course) , Brussels (may be allergic to sprouts) and the Global Warming Alarmists (1)
1) So, basically, this guy doesn't want us to become a second French Midi, thank you very much Geert!
-- 29A the number of the Beast
And you commit a very stupid statistical fault: Those GERMANS, BRITISH and most of the rest of the extra 50K are actually working just like you and me and paying as much as we do. And specially among the GERMANS they may be paying MUCH MORE than you and me.
-- 29A the number of the Beast
Taxes are TIERED meaning that we pay 30% for the common tier (biggest part) of our salaries and 42% for the highest tier and for some stuff that is taxes expressly like extra hours and vacation that you want to get paid out instead of taking them... but heck, that's with a reason.
And not for nothing we are the country with the HIGHEST productivity in the world, because we are well treated workers and generally like our jobs and this is for a reason.
And anyway: I don't give a flying fuck about these Uberpop users, I use the bike, that why we have our fietspadden for, paid with the taxes. I have no issue with taxes, it's always better to having to learn to breath underwater, LOL
-- 29A the number of the Beast
Sure that people don't take taxis because they are expensive? And not just because everybody and the dog has a bike or a few of them (and nothing beats Gratis)? Or because you pay 0 EUR for home-to-work transport ?
Taxed about 65-70%? Sure? With a modal salary of 35K/year this would mean 24500 EUR year... I mean... are you really sure that we are talking about the same country mate, het Koninkrijk der Nederlanden? Well, maybe I live in a different country: Noord-Holland may have segregated and we are now a Republic?
-- 29A the number of the Beast
Hey! Good idea!!! Very good idea actually!! Can we make an app for that?
-- 29A the number of the Beast
Read Again: ONPublic Roads, unless you refer to an Helicopter, of course. You are free to do as much business as you want, but if you use a resource you have to pay for it. Sorry. And roads are a resource, that happens to be public. And you are not free to what you want because you may hinder other persons who are also wanting to use the road to get to the places THEY make their business and practice their entrepreneurship it if fits them.
-- 29A the number of the Beast
When you say "free," I'm assuming you mean legal.
There are a couple of (rural, sparsely populated) counties where prostitution is legal. If there are a hundred legal prostitutes in all the brothels in Nevada at any one time, I'd be very surprised.
Now, Las Vegas, that's a different issue. But prostitution in Las Vegas, is definitely not legal. There may be thousands of them, but that doesn't make them legal.
Ignorance killed the cat. Curiosity was framed.
Can I have a tank? ()
They are underutilized! Pleaaase??? ^(*_*)^
-- 29A the number of the Beast
"While similar bullying applied to short rentals of private rooms through sites like Airbnb"
Look-- Uber, Lyft, and all the other distributed taxi services are being so heavily attacked by regulatory agencies because it is the responsibility of those agencies to protect consumer safety. Voluntarily make sure your company meets all the same safety and insurance requirements as an existing taxi system and you'll be set.
AirBnB is similar in that the repeated short-term rental of homes as hotels requires health and fire inspections of these distributed hotels, BUT there's an additional issue. Amsterdam is a massive tourist attraction. People want to visit Amsterdam, ride bikes, get high, and maybe visit a prostitute. However, Amsterdam is not that big... and the people who live there don't want it to get very big. In fact, if it got too big or too expensive, then you'd have no dutch people living there-- just tourist agencies and immigrants dressed in stereotypical Dutch garb-- "Welcome to Dutch Land, Americans!".
The ease of facilitating short-term tourism rentals via AirBnB makes it exceedingly profitable to buy a flat and use AirBnB to bring in more revenue per month than you could get renting the place out to people who actually want to live and work in the city. And that's the problem. Amsterdam should be full of the Dutch but without appropriate regulation, it will be full of tourists with some Dutch on the side.
I would love to visit Amsterdam, but wouldn't care to do so in the future if it's jam packed with tourists.
When you say "free," I'm assuming you mean legal.
There are a couple of (rural, sparsely populated) counties where prostitution is legal. If there are a hundred legal prostitutes in all the brothels in Nevada at any one time, I'd be very surprised.
/quote>
Damn! Another broken dream. What do I tell the guys now after spending a lot of cash in condoms and pimp suites? Maybe trading them for bongs and visit Colorado instead?
-- 29A the number of the Beast
Sounds good to me.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"