Birth Control Pills Threaten Fish Stocks

BarbaraHudson writes Experimental research has shown that small amounts of estrogen in waste water can lead to rapid large-scale changes in fish populations. From the article: "The lead researcher of a new study is calling for improvements to some of Canada's waste water treatment facilities after finding that introducing the birth control pill in waterways created a chain reaction in a lake ecosystem that nearly wiped out a freshwater fish. 'Right away, the male fish started to respond to the estrogen exposure by producing egg yolk proteins and shortly after that they started to develop eggs,' she said in an interview from Saint John, N.B. 'They were being feminized.' Kidd said shortly after introducing the estrogen, the number of fathead minnow crashed, reducing numbers to just one per cent of the population. 'It was really unexpected that they would react so quickly and so dramatically,' she said. 'The crash in the population was very evident and very dramatic and very rapid and related directly to the estrogen addition.'" Estrogen pollution in waterways has been an issue for over a decade now.

Comments

So add testosterone too

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not like we're going to give up the pill.

Re:So add testosterone too

[matbury]

These stories have been circulating for decades. I've yet to see any that correlate estrogen in contraceptive pills with the quantities of estrogen in waste water. Modern contraceptive pills use minute amounts. Additionally, our bodies produce estrogen in the liver,adrenal glands, breasts (in women), and fat cells (are increased obesity rates producing more waste estrogen?). We put far larger amounts into some cosmetics and shampoos. We also use synthetic estrogen compounds in substantial amounts plastics in our food packaging and containers. They've long been known to leech into our food and are harmful endocrine disruptors which can have effects that are passed on to our offspring, including infertiility and cancers.

So, have they established that contraceptive pills are the source of the estrogen theyr'e finding in the water? Anyone have a link to the study handy?

Re:So add testosterone too

[preaction]

Yeah, I thought we were also dosing farm animals with massive amounts of estrogen to improve milk production.

Re:So add testosterone too

[Immerman]

As I recall studies have been done confirming that women on the pill have many times (potentially hundreds) as much estrogen in their urine as the baseline. The quantities of estrogen *can't* be minute - they have to so excessively overwhelm the womans natural hormone levels that they render her infertile, and they have to be able to accomplish that despite her body's attempts to restore balance to her system as quickly as possible to avoid being rendered genetically irrelevant.

As for BPAs and other pseudo-estrogens - they tend to leach out primarily when the plastic is frozen, and in quantities far lower than in the pill. There would have to be MASSIVE plastic deposits within the waterways to cause a similar result.

Furthermore the summary suggests that the feminization of fish began very rapidly after the introduction of the pill to the area in question. Now sure, correlation doesn't imply causality - but in this case it sure looks an awful lot like a smoking gun.

Re:So add testosterone too

[Anonymous Coward]

So is that why teenage boys today are dressing like girls? I swear I see more boys shopping in the girls department than actual girls. and what marketing genius convinced girls that short tops look good with a belly roll?

Re:So add testosterone too

[dublin]

I've yet to see any that correlate estrogen in contraceptive pills with the quantities of estrogen in waste water. Modern contraceptive pills use minute amounts. Additionally, our bodies produce estrogen in the liver,adrenal glands, breasts (in women), and fat cells (are increased obesity rates producing more waste estrogen?). We put far larger amounts into some cosmetics and shampoos. We also use synthetic estrogen compounds in substantial amounts plastics in our food packaging and containers. They've long been known to leech into our food and are harmful endocrine disruptors which can have effects that are passed on to our offspring, including infertiility and cancers

Or maybe, just maybe, the right solution is to start eliminating *all* of those sources - sounds to me like you're trying awfully hard to defend birth control hormones for reasons other than the provable scientific fact that environmental estrogens and xenoestrogens are wreaking havoc on our entire ecosystem, people and animals.

The thing that differentiates hormones from other kinds of chemicals is that a tiny amount produces an enormous biological response. The smart thing to do is to quit acting like bathing our bodies and our environments in this stuff doesn't matter... (The studies you seek are out there and numerous - use Google yourself, dammit.)

BTW, I'm far from a green weenie (I strongly support fracking and nuclear, and believe the science shows that man made global warming is complete and utter BS), but I do believe that there are two very large, very real technological dangers to our biology that will finally become recognized in the coming decades - environmental sex hormones (far more often female than male, but both are troublesome), and modern digital wireless communications with sharp square-wave edges which are more and more proving to affect biology through methods other than heating or ionization.

Re:So add testosterone too

[Reziac]

And as I speculate above, are they controlling for phytoestrogens released by the decay of aquatic plant life? which in lakes tends to increase over time with the natural decline of a lake into a swamp. (Unless dredged out by humans.)

Ban birth control pills

[Anonymous Coward]

Exploding human population will threaten fish stocks.

No good alternative

[Anonymous Coward]

Officials noted that the alternative of dumping truckloads of condoms into the lake, was rejected as being too expensive and unattractive.

Can't be good for humans either

[wcrowe]

This might explain why grown men are more and more behaving like frightened old women these days.

Re:Can't be good for humans either

[Jason Levine]

Even if it had an effect on humans also, I would expect the effect to be much diminished compared to fish as your average human has much more body mass than your average fish.

Re:Can't be good for humans either

[Anonymous Coward]

But consumes more water?

Re:Can't be good for humans either

[Anonymous Coward]

And sushi.

Re:Can't be good for humans either

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know - if I was swimming around in the stuff I'd probably drink more of it. Plus I can pee whenever I feel like it. Actually those two together make the water seem less appealing.

Re:Can't be good for humans either

[OakDragon]

This might explain why grown men are more and more behaving like frightened old women these days.

Maybe that's what happened to Stephen King.

Re:Can't be good for humans either

[Jason Levine]

The "much diminished" wasn't referring to population levels of the fish, but the effect that the hormone had on human males. The average human male is much bigger than a fish so it should take a lot more of the hormone to have an effect. Even then, the effects might not be the same. The hormone's effect on fish and humans might vary wildly.

As for human males "behaving feminized", I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you referring to guys who actually express feelings, cook, and clean up around the house? If so, I'd call this progress and not "acting feminized." The days of a guy coming home, ordering his barefoot and pregnant wife to get him a beer, and demanding that she wait on him hand and foot are long gone. (Thank goodness.)

Re:Can't be good for humans either

[The Grim Reefer]

But consumes more water?

Because of osmotic pressure, freshwater fish are hypertonic and absorb water continually. Their kidneys work pretty hard to keep the correct electrolyte balance.

Re:Can't be good for humans either

[fafaforza]

The article doesn't really say what length of time the "rapid" change in the fish constitutes, but the fish's lifespan cannot be long, so we could assume the change was visible within 6 months of introducing the estrogen? Seems fair to me. Compare that to a 30 year old male being exposed to the same drugs all his life. I wouldn't be so quick in dismissing the effects.

Re:Can't be good for humans either

[Anonymous Coward]

it is much diminished the fish are getting eggs, the human males are just squealing and acting like sissies

Re:Can't be good for humans either

[Livius]

Are you referring to...

I'm referring to hormone biochemistry. You've gone off topic.

Re:Can't be good for humans either

[Immerman]

Please elaborate. Hormone biochemistry is physiology, you're claiming a change in behavior. Exactly what behavioral changes do you observe that lead you to believe there's a biochemical change?

Re:Can't be good for humans either

[fustakrakich]

Behavior is a function of brain physiology. What are you saying?

Re:Can't be good for humans either

[Immerman]

Absolutely. However, it's an extremely complicated and poorly understood relationship, and a change in physiology does not necessarily imply a change in behavior, nor vice versa. Nor does a change in hormone levels necessarily imply either. I'm merely asking for some evidence for Livius' claims.

Livius: Human males are behaving feminized, even though females are not selecting for that trait.
Jason: As for human males "behaving feminized", I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you referring to...
Livius: I'm referring to hormone biochemistry. You've gone off topic.
Me: (paraphrased) No he hasn't. You've claimed a behavioral change - what change? Where's your evidence? Waving your hands and saying "hormones" just makes it look like you've got no actual argument.

Re:Can't be good for humans either

[fustakrakich]

...a change in physiology does not necessarily imply a change in behavior...

Depends on what part of the brain, but the brain is responsible for behavior. Any change in behavior is a result of physiological change in the brain. You'll see it in an MRI. There's no chicken/egg thing here. The brain does it all, and then tries to deny it :-)

Re:Can't be good for humans either

[Immerman]

Okay, but only if you include the "software" and "data" as well, which presumably has some physiological component that should be weighted far in excess of the direct physical alterations. I give you the anecdote of the African student in America who was at long last informed that women here consider strong body odor to be unpleasant rather than attractive. Overnight his bathing behavior changes dramatically in response to the minute physiological change associated with learning of a cultural difference (and much to the relief of his classmates).

Meanwhile there's plenty of people who have suffered traumatic brain trauma with no apparent change in behavior - the brain does a lot more than just regulate behavior after all. So: significant physiological changes do not imply significant behavioral changes, nor do significant behavioral changes imply significant physiological changes. Nor do the presence of environmental contaminates necessarily imply changes in either.

Neurobiology is complicated. And as such any claims of a specific relationship should be accompanied by evidence - if you can't even muster anecdotal evidence to support your claim then it rightfully deserves to be discarded as a "pet theory", even if it seems superficially obvious that a connection "should" exist.

Re:Can't be good for humans either

[fustakrakich]

Oh, now you're saying "significant"... I don't know what that means.

Yes, neurobiology is complicated, but the brain creates the thought, not the other way around.

Re:Can't be good for humans either

[Immerman]

Would you prefer "measurable with current instruments"?

>the brain creates the thought, not the other way around.
I beg to differ - there's a definite feedback loop in action, changes on either front can modify the other.
Consider how long-term meditation practitioners have been shown to have anomalous brain structures apparently related to attention and compassion, and randomly selected experimental subjects who have participated in extended meditation practice begun to form similar anomalies.

We are animals, but more than any other animal on the planet we have the ability to remake ourselves. We are each of us Pavlov as well as his dogs.

Take your pick, fish

[NotDrWho]

a) estrogen in the water

b) more kids who will one day fish.

Re:Take your pick, fish

[i kan reed]

Well, "one day fish" is a bit silly. But larger populations of us humans do cause greater ecological harm.

In places where wastewater treatement isn't up to snuff, the fecal coliform bacteria causing complete ecosystem collapse. Which is more than a little worse than the stressors placed by estrogen.

Re:Take your pick, fish

[vettemph]

C) The IUD. (that the drug companies keep bad-mouthing because it is not a continuous revenue stream.)

In Soviet Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

Male fish gives... eh... YOU!... something something.

I got nothing.

Cities

[bill_mcgonigle]

One of the problems with cities is that they concentrate pollution. One of the dirty secrets of cities is that their governments do the bare minimum required to get rid of their waste. I remember growing up on the Jersey Shore and some days the beaches would be littered with tampon tubes because NYC just dumped their sewage offshore. When you're five, you just don't understand what's happening - I'm surprised our parents let us spend the day in that water.

The trouble is, these governments do everything they can to externalize the costs of living in the city onto the people (and apparently minnows) who don't. The wastewater treatment plants discussed here could absolutely destroy the estrogen before releasing it into the environment - but the sewage bills might have to double to make that happen. The city folks would undoubtedly scream about "unfairness" if their water was effectively treated before discharge.

Re:Cities

[ColdWetDog]

Modern wastewater treatment is certainly one of western civilization's major achievements. It cuts down on communicable diseases, enhances human and animal lifetimes and makes the place smell better. However, the technology is perhaps 100 years old at it's core and was never imagined to get rid of the multitude of chemicals that we are currently dumping in the water.

As an AC in a post below this one states "We know that a whole host of chemicals do this, estrogen from birth control pills being just one chemical out of literally hundreds." Some are likely to have noticeable biological effects, others perhaps not. And we certainly have the technology to rid the water of these chemicals, but likely not the political and financial will.

The EPA is constantly changing their requirements for wastewater, typically tightening up on some chemical or another. They are usually hounded left and right when they do that for reasons of economics and politics. Hopefully they can continue doing so, but I'm doubtful of their ability to push for major changes in the current climate (pun intended).

Re:Cities

[PPH]

How well does anaerobic bacterial processing of sewage waste decompose the estrogen? The cited study reports the effects of releasing municipal wste into waterways. But it isn't clear about how this waste was treated or what they mean by 'better' waste water treatment.

Some Canadian municipalities are infamous for their lack of waste water treatment.

Re:Cities

[operagost]

Leftists do all they can to criticize suburbanites for causing pollution and consuming resources. Meanwhile, agricultural runoff in rural areas and the mass dumping of chemical waste into the water in the city are causing far greater environmental problems. If the left is going to force us to live in cities, they had better address the issues.

Re:Cities

[hey!]

You got it exactly right. Cities *concentrate* polution. Spreading the same populatioh over a wider area *disperses* the pollution.

Civil engineers used to say "dilution is the solution to pollution", but no longer -- except ironically. That's because there can be offsetting mechanmisms that concentrate a pollutant -- e.g. collecting in streams.

Cities actually make processing pollution and waste more financially efficient, although the price tag in absolute (rather than per capita) terms can be eye-popping. Here in Boston we went through a major shock about 25 years ago. We had had the lowest water and sewer rates in the country, living off massive infrastructure investments made generations prior; but we were dumping minimally treated sewage and sludge into the harbor. A lawsuit forced us to disband the agency which was running the sewage and water system, but also recreation like parks and skating rinks, and form a new quasi-independent authority . After 6.8 billion dollars spent on new treatment plants, we had more expensive than average water. 6.8 billion spread over 2.5 million ratepayers is a LOT of money $2750 / person over a decade or so. But it's cheaper than if those 2.5 million people were spread out evenly along the coast for a few hundred miles.

Re:Cities

[Anonymous Coward]

How well does anaerobic bacterial processing of sewage waste decompose the estrogen?

The bacteria used in waste water treatment consume about 94% of the estrogen. But enough is left over to be pretty significant to aquatic species that are sensitive to it.

Re:Cities

[Anonymous Coward]

Dont worry, leftists are also attacked for trying to destroy farming and agriculture.

Just go visit some Farm Belt Republican's website.

Re:Cities

[dublin]

No, the EPA is worried about the natural non-pollutant CO2 rather than the clear and present danger of concentrated chemicals from city water treatment plants. Do you really expect the Feds to attack their urban power base? As another poster mentioned, the urban hipsters would scream bloody murder if they had to pay to have their effluent treated to eliminate these extraordinarily powerful chemicals...

Re:Cities

[Reziac]

And my next question is... how do levels of estrogen secondary to human wastewater compare to levels of phytoestrogens released into the water by native plants? Cuz I'm wondering if that might be the real story, especially with lakes late in their natural lifecycle where they are filling up with silt and weeds (no human intervention required, tho dredging by humans has sometimes delayed it).

It's not just estrogen.

[Anonymous Coward]

We know that a whole host of chemicals do this, estrogen from birth control pills being just one chemical out of literally hundreds.

Re:It's not just estrogen.

[dublin]

Try buying food that isn't packaged, cooked, or served in materials that are well-known to leach xenoestrogens... From bottles to juice boxes to plastic/vacuum bags to polymer coatings in almost all modern cans and coffee and drink cups - you're getting bathed in this stuff unless you can afford to buy everything you eat at the farmer's market, and even them it's almost impossible to avoid the various pesticides, fungicides, herbicides, etc., many of which are loose in the environment themselves.

Birth control pills signifcant contributor?

[butchersong]

This is a problem but it seems like we might have multiple contributors of estrogens in drinking water with birth control pills not the most significant. Not the best source but: http://www.sciencedaily.com/re...

Re:Birth control pills signifcant contributor?

[slashmydots]

According to a former slashdot story, that is absolutely where the estrogen is coming from. The primary point of the story was that tap water processing plants do absolutely nothing to filter it out. This is why I don't drink tap water.

Re:Birth control pills signifcant contributor?

[BarbaraHudson]

That study refers to estrogen and estrogen mimickers found in the drinking water, from all sources. Stuff that's treated, filtered, etc. This study was done in a controlled lake environment maintained by the Canadian government for such studies, and the only variable was dosing the lake with a low level of estrogen (probably estradiol). So, if we assume that source of estrogen is a small amount in comparison to others in the water environment, it's impact is demonstrably huge. Not all pollutants have the same effect per unit dose.

There might be a synergistic effect, or fish may just be more sensitive to human estrogen, but concentrations of the pill in waterways has been known to have an effect on fish and amphibians for a couple of decades. The only question was, can we see an actual cause and effect relationship "in the wild", and now we can state that there is definitely one.

Re:Birth control pills signifcant contributor?

[Anonymous Coward]

Doesn't really matter either way. Even if birth control pills are a big contribution to the problem, they are not going away. Can you imagine the uproar if women couldn't reliably prevent pregnancy anymore? The pill has done more for "gender equality" than all of feminism combined.

Re:Birth control pills signifcant contributor?

[kick6]

The primary point of the story was that tap water processing plants do absolutely nothing to filter it out. This is why I don't drink tap water.

Do you only drink well water? Cuz guess what: bottled water is tap water.

Re:Birth control pills signifcant contributor?

[abies]

Do you only drink well water? Cuz guess what: bottled water is tap water.

Bottled water from male-only communities. Drinking water bottled by women will make you grow soft.
Seriously, is rain filtering out that stuff? If yes, then bottled water from mountain regions should be reasonably clean. Especially from Brokeback Mountains...

Re:Birth control pills signifcant contributor?

[Major Blud]

I'm assuming you don't drink milk either.

http://news.harvard.edu/gazett...

Re:Birth control pills signifcant contributor?

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't forget the plastics which are generating androgen mimicking substances.

Re:Birth control pills signifcant contributor?

[I'm New Around Here]

Only straight from the source. Until my wife pushes me away.

Re:Birth control pills signifcant contributor?

[HornWumpus]

The 'pill' might go away. Patches are more efficient ways of delivering chemicals to the blood and result in much lower quantities in the sewage system.

Re:Birth control pills signifcant contributor?

[slashmydots]

Absolutely not. Ask anyone who is a professional dietician what the last healthy drink in the world is. They'll say milk (or be incorrect).

Re:Birth control pills signifcant contributor?

[JeffOwl]

According to a former slashdot story, that is absolutely where the estrogen is coming from. The primary point of the story was that tap water processing plants do absolutely nothing to filter it out. This is why I don't drink tap water.

Right. Only rain water and grain alcohol. God willing, we will prevail, in peace and freedom from fear, and in true health, through the purity and essence of our natural... fluids.

Re:Birth control pills signifcant contributor?

[Immerman]

I recall reading elsewhere that we are finding substantial levels of synthetic estrogen and other pharmaceuticals even in fresh rainwater in remote areas. We're running the most far-reaching biochemical experiment in the history of the planet, and we're doing it without any hint of controls or knowledgeable oversight. May we live in interesting times indeed...

And incidentally well-water is just water from an underground river. Considering that typically 70-90% of the water flow from your average surface river is flowing underground to begin with that doesn't breed confidence in non-mixing. Your well water may have diverged from the surface river tens or hundreds of miles upstream, but you've got to ask yourself, what's upstream from there? The water has likely passed through a lot of miles of sand-filter between there and here, but does that really do much to remove fully dissolved chemical contaminants?

Re:Birth control pills signifcant contributor?

[Immerman]

Hate to break it to you, but estrogen and other pharmaceuticals have been detected even in fresh rainwater in remote areas. We've contaminated not just our rivers, but the complete water cycle. There is no clean water anymore.

Re:Birth control pills signifcant contributor?

[Immerman]

Also IUDs and hormonal implants have become far safer and more effective than the early versions that gave them a bad name.

Re:Birth control pills signifcant contributor?

[jae471]

Whoosh

Re:Birth control pills signifcant contributor?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, they won't, because that's retarded.

Re:Birth control pills signifcant contributor?

[Bengie]

Our tap water comes from a watershed that is filled from rain water. We're on high ground near a river, so any dumped water is pretty much just going to flow down stream into the ocean eventually. Not so concerned about estrogen in the rain water.

Re:Birth control pills signifcant contributor?

[BarbaraHudson]

Hormone replacement therapy is still in use, though available to fewer women, because so many women have risk factors such as smoking.

Re:Birth control pills signifcant contributor?

[toddestan]

This is why I don't drink tap water.

My tap water is pumped out of an aquifer where it has been for decades. This is of course, unsustainable in the long term, but in the meantime I'll take my chances with my tap water (which tastes great, by the way) instead of the bottled stuff.

Re:Birth control pills signifcant contributor?

[dublin]

It comes from all kinds of things, but nowhere int he amounts and strengths found in birth control pills. The pill is *far* worse than even regular hormoe replacemtn therapy, since the dose has to be strong enough to swamp the body's normal hormonal actions and responses. This type of overloading always produces very high levels of excreted chemicals - far more than you'll find from almost any other source.

And keep in mind, these are more dangerous for people than other environmental estrogens, since they're *designed and intended* to work most effectively on humans.

Still, won't someone think of all those poor, chemically gay fish? They didn't choose to be that way... :-)

Re:Birth control pills signifcant contributor?

[dublin]

Gen. Jack Ripper salutes you, sir!

(This message sent from my CRM-114 Discriminator)

Re:Birth control pills signifcant contributor?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm pretty sure Ebola-contaminated blood is less healthy.

Joking aside though, soda is definitely less healthy than milk. Milk isn't great for adults, but it's not *that* bad.

Re:Thanks Obama.

[Mr D from 63]

Well, they did make a big deal about paying for the pill via O-Care. Folks can have some fun twisting that, I suppose.

Re:Thanks Obama.

[Anonymous Coward]

So you had to go out of your way to turn it into an issue where there isn't one yet?
 
Oh, sorry, I just read your name and I can see that you wouldn't know what to do if you're not being a knee-jerk fanboy.

Birth control pills?

[Anonymous Coward]

We're already 7 billion and adding 200000 new people every day... We have birth control? Maybe we should use it instead of giving it to the fish?

Re:Birth control pills?

[koan]

Careful, the next thing you know someone will suggest you're after a eugenics program and then comes the obligatory Nazi reference... ooops....

Re:Birth control pills?

[TangoMargarine]

Why are people flushing them in the first place instead of throwing them away normally? What other random things are people putting down their toilets?

Re:Birth control pills?

[HornWumpus]

TangoMargarine never learned what a 'flerzy' was in middle school! It's a hair do, and a process and on point to your comment.

Re:Birth control pills?

[TangoMargarine]

If you're going to mock me for something you say I've never heard of, at least spell it right so I can google it.

Thanks for your confusing comment that totally fails to help.

Re:Birth control pills?

[HornWumpus]

A Flerzy is when you pick a nerd up by his feet, put his head in the toilet and flush.

It's the only reason I kind of wish there were emos when I was in middle school. That hair is asking to be flerzied.

Re:Birth control pills?

[TangoMargarine]

You mean a "swirly"? The heck is "flerzy" supposed to come from?

Well, it's technically related to my question and we all know that's the best kind of correct.

Re:Birth control pills?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why are people flushing them in the first place . . . ?

Because even women on the pill urinate.

Re:Birth control pills?

[TangoMargarine]

I was under the impression one took them orally, not by jamming them up your urethra.

Re:Birth control pills?

[Immerman]

Probably because they've already taken them? The estrogen doesn't just disappear into a woman's body - it gets flushed into her urine as quickly as possible as her body fight to restore its fertility.

Re:Birth control pills?

[TangoMargarine]

Oh. I read the title as "people flushing unused birth control pills threatens," not "the intended cycle of taking birth control pills and their normal chemical output threatens."

That's just bullshit, not estrogen from the "Pill"

[Demonoid-Penguin]

"Estrogens ain't estrogens (Sol)"
http://www.arhp.org/publicatio...

@butchersong
And why is this not "the best source" - peer reviewed... did I miss some bad science?

I thought an experiment based on a false belief that estrogen from the Pill is the same estrogen that is found in waterways was bad science - like the flawed UK research it was "based on".

The researcher refers to "estrogen-like" in the science press, but the term "birth control pills" is quoted in the non-science press. Need for publicity, bad reporting, or both?

cough*Dairy farmers*cough(??)

Good thing this isn't a US story.

[GungaDan]

It could result in a monumental political battle between fluke and Fluke.

Re:Good thing this isn't a US story.

[I'm New Around Here]

Good one.

Re:Good thing this isn't a US story.

[Anonymous Coward]

Where are my mod points?

Re:That's just bullshit, not estrogen from the "Pi

[Livius]

Birth control pills contain substances chemically like oestrogen. What did you think was in them?

Should we start dumping Viagra?

[martiniturbide]

Maybe Viagra on the seas is the solution. More horny fishes will reproduce more.... damn.... I just found my master's thesis.

Re:Should we start dumping Viagra?

[koan]

Good luck with that, viagra does not make you horny.

Re:Should we start dumping Viagra?

[csumpi]

Good luck with that, viagra does not make you horny.

That's not what she said.

.

Re:Should we start dumping Viagra?

[HornWumpus]

You need powdered black rhino horn for that!

Mod parent down

[Anonymous Coward]

That is a stupid comment.

The fish exhibited feminized physiological changes, not mere "behavior."

Furthermore, you need to define what "feminized" behavior is, exactly.

Re:Mod parent down

[Livius]

You seriously don't think that's 'much diminished' compared to a 99% drop in population?

Re:Mod parent down

[Anonymous Coward]

I seriously don't think the statement "human males are behaving feminized" is at all serious. You have not defined what you mean by "behaving feminized," nor have you provided any support for the existence of the purported behavior change, nor have you provided support for the idea that it's caused by hormone contamination of water.

You've pretended to make an extrapolation from fish research, but you've actually just pulled a nonsense idea out of your ass.

Peta is not Happy

[phantomfive]

Peta wishes people would think of the Sea Kittens!

So...

[nerdyalien]

Birth control pills meant to control fish population ???

help im trapped in hell 2.0

[Anonymous Coward]

hell 1.0 started 20 years ago
who you gonna call? no one !

Ask BarbaraHudson (alias tomhudson)

[Anonymous Coward]

Your post is bizarre and disgusting.

I don't think they're calling for ban of the pill

[beschra]

From TFA "It's a problem that we can certainly resolve with better waste water treatment,"

Don't worry

[koan]

The sheer amount of SSRI's in the water will keep the fish happy.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/hea...

Re:Side effect

[Scottingham]

I counter your citation-less speculation with my own: Or not.

Re:Women on the pill have VD...

[BarbaraHudson]

Women will do ANYTHING to 'get a man'. For most women, being single is the worst thing in the world. They will sleep with ANY scumbag, as long as they 'have a man'. Hence most women will sleep with jerks who can't keep it up with a condom on. Hence most women use the pill, rather than condoms, in spite of the fact that the pill offers no protection against VD whatsoever

Normally I would urge someone like you to use a condom to help prevent the spread of stupidity. However, with your personality, there's no worry about that.

As for the rest ... sheesh!

Low dose birth control pills?

[JDevers]

Seems that the slow switch to low dose birth control pills will have a side effect of helping this sort of pollution as well. It won't prevent it of course, but there is a big different between 1970s pills and those prescribed today, now just to get those who have been on the pills for 20+ years to switch to something different. Has the side effect of lowering cancer rates as well.

Re:Women on the pill have VD...

[Anonymous Coward]

This is comedy gold!

Try submitting it to: http://bahfest.com

Sounds like something that would fit right in!

Re:Ask BarbaraHudson (alias tomhudson)

[TrollingForHostFiles]

Hallå AlecStaar! Hur mår du?

Hur verkar vädret just nu i Syracuse?

Med vänliga hgälsningar,

Jeremy Reimer

Re:Ask BarbaraHudson (alias tomhudson)

[Anonymous Coward]

So are you saying this wcrowe is a multi as well, or did you misaim?

So you're saying you're illiterate?

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject: Learn to read, imbecile. BarbaraHudson != wcrowe.

Re:So you're saying you're illiterate?

[Anonymous Coward]

So why did you reply to wcrowe? Not that your choice of where to respond to people is normally very rational either.

Re:That's just bullshit, not estrogen from the "Pi

[HornWumpus]

The hysterical left has latched onto pseudo estrogens from plastics as the new boogie man.

Which is sort of cool. Because it funds research into the damage of birth control pill runoff. Research that would surly be verboten without distractions.

But What is the The Effect on People?

[Anonymous Coward]

Could pollutants like these be the cause of the increase in intersexed and trangendered people?

Re:But What is the The Effect on People?

[Immerman]

It's certainly not impossible. But it's also quite likely that the reduction in social stigma over the last decades have made such people far more likely to openly embrace their differences instead of forcing themselves to fit society's expectations to avoid being ostracized.

A potential research experiment would be to see whether openly anomalous biologically male individuals have increased at a substantially faster rate than biologically female ones - presumably elevated environmental estrogen levels would have a disproportionate effect on the sexuality of biologically male individuals, so if such a disproportional shift is not present it would undermine your hypothesis.

Re:But What is the The Effect on People?

[Reziac]

For that, one should look not in the water, but at the shift in diet to include a great deal more soy and flaxseed products (and flaxseed has 3x the level of phytoestrogens AND is more readily absorbed from the gut):

http://web.archive.org/web/201...

screw the fish what about us?

[JustNiz]

At least it has been completely proven to have absolutely no effect on human males. Oh wait...

Toss in Testosterone

[JimSadler]

Well the answer to too much estrogen is a dose of testosterone. But seriously the real issue is an out of control size of population just about everywhere. We need strict control of reproduction. Not all people should be allowed to reproduce.

Re:Toss in Testosterone

[Anonymous Coward]

Testosterone kills things. Have a male piss on a patch of grass over and over and it'll die. Have a female do it and it'll live. The main difference is testosterone.

(Something I've heard, something I haven't been able to test.)

Re:Toss in Testosterone

[Anonymous Coward]

Have a male piss on a patch of grass over and over and it'll die. Have a female do it and it'll live. . . . (Something I've heard, something I haven't been able to test.)

Dogs have tested that for me. Either sex, the grass dies.

Re:Toss in Testosterone

[Immerman]

>too much estrogen is a dose of testosterone
Umm... no. Estrogen and testosterone are very different hormones with VERY different and largely unrelated effects. Women don't have both hormones coursing through their bodies just as some sort of balancing act.

>Not all people should be allowed to reproduce.
Fortunately most every culture that has access to cheap birth control and good enough cheap health care that infants reliably survive to adulthood tends to fall to nearly zero population growth within a generation or so, and fall to negative growth as the standards of living improves further and children begin to interfere with luxury spending. Which is great news for those of us that don't think anyone likely to have the power to implement a eugenics program should be allowed to do so. Just socialize children's health care and birth control, maybe invest some PR dollars in popularizing family planning to speed things up, and the problem solves itself.

Especially if you can shut up the religious extremists saying birth control is evil. I was glad to see the Pope adopt a hands-off stance on birth control recently, now if we could just get the American extremists off the bandwagon as well we could start disrupting the population problems in the US as well.

Re:Ask BarbaraHudson (alias tomhudson)

[Anonymous Coward]

Get a job.

Re:Ask BarbaraHudson (alias tomhudson)

[Anonymous Coward]

Why are you so obsessed with Barbara Hudson? And if you claim you're not, you're lying.

transgendered are not impacted

[Anonymous Coward]

Transgender is a mental condition in the age of lazy psychologists, a consumer biased patient population, and abuse of for-profit medical solutions.

There is no such thing as a transgendered person; just people with gender identity disorder who are placated with drugs and operations. Then a large number of idiots who buy into all the crap and shame anybody who dares poitn out the truth.

If you thought you were napoleon we'd be able to say you need professional help and if your help said you needed a new outfit, french lessons and to have your legs shortened (yes, I know he wasn't actually short) then everybody would say your professional was incompetent. Not start shaming each other for being ignorant and intolerant and not supporting the economy of support specialists.

Re:transgendered are not impacted

[Anonymous Coward]

Your position isn't based on evidence, it's based on what you want to be true.

Re:transgendered are not impacted

[BarbaraHudson]

Transgender is a mental condition in the age of lazy psychologists, a consumer biased patient population, and abuse of for-profit medical solutions.

There is no such thing as a transgendered person; just people with gender identity disorder who are placated with drugs and operations. Then a large number of idiots who buy into all the crap and shame anybody who dares poitn out the truth.

Only partially right, and for all the wrong reasons. The is no longer anything called "gender identity disorder". The real "disorder" is societies failure to accept this as a treatable medical condition for some people, corrected with hormones and a sex change. The American Psychiatric Association has this to say about gender dysphoria.

DSM-5 aims to avoid stigma and ensure clinical care for individuals who see and feel themselves to be a different gender than their assigned gender. It replaces the diagnostic name “gender identity disorder” with “gender dysphoria,” as well as makes other important clarifications in the criteria. It is important to note that gender nonconformity is not in itself a mental disorder. The critical element of gender dysphoria is the presence of clinically significant distress associated with the condition.

... and that stress in large part comes from people who are either ignorant or actively haters. But that's becoming less of a problem as more of us speak out.

The government wants this

[Anonymous Coward]

If all the grown men are running around acting like complete pussies, and the elite's directly state controlled media pushes a feminist message, the chances of a real revolution against the international banking cartel seems a lot less likely.

I misread the tite

[flargleblarg]

I misread the title as:

Birth Control Pills Threaten Fish Sticks

Re:I misread the tite

[dublin]

Well, I suppose in a roundabout way...

Re:That's just bullshit, not estrogen from the "Pi

[Anonymous Coward]

And in 1950 LeAD was actually really really really good for you. Even after 2000 years of documented health effects. Go Shill Scientist!!!

Buy more then

[mysidia]

Birth Control Pills Threaten Fish Stocks

Buy Buy Buy... time to back the truck up.
Often when stock prices go down due on bad news: the fall is short lived and represents a buying opportunity.

Sorry (J/K), couldn't resist.

Mod terrorists win

[Anonymous Coward]

Slashdot allows anonymous censors to mod down posts so they fall beneath the default threshold (0). This allows the censors to prevent users from reading the post, rather than arguing the position taken by the poster. Thanks to SlashDot's policies, the terrorists win.

Re:That's just bullshit, not estrogen from the "Pi

[Demonoid-Penguin]

Birth control pills contain substances chemically like oestrogen.

No shit?

What did you think was in them?

Which ones? Beyaz, Gianvi, Loryna, Ocella, Safyral, Syeda, Yasmin, Yaz, or Zarah? Ethynyl-estradiol.

Re:That's just bullshit, not estrogen from the "Pi

[Demonoid-Penguin]

The hysterical left has latched onto pseudo estrogens from plastics as the new boogie man.

The hysterical latch onto nothing. Seriously.

any quantity module process from measure a remembe

[blanchettemary6]

You power translate almost a quantity, cerebration that it works quite rise, when the set does not transmute at all. There is no convexity in disagreeable to sell you Soldier thin by narration you almost how extraordinary it is. You penury to show many cordate it totality. Ketone Slim XT

Waste dumped straight into the ocean

[CaptQuark]

Well, maybe we can convince some cities like Victoria BC from dumping their raw sewage directly into the mouth of the Puget Sound. http://environment.about.com/o...

They say they screen out the larger pieces of solid waste, but everything else (drugs, detergents, cooking waste, every sick person's waste) goes straight into the ocean.

I just hope they never have a person with HIV, Hepatitis C, Ebola, STDs, Clostridium difficile, Salmonella, or MRSA living or visiting there.

~~

Re:Ask BarbaraHudson (alias tomhudson)

[Anonymous Coward]

His post's just verifiable facts. You're obsessed with apk Barb http://slashdot.org/comments.p... (despite your ac reply now and moddowns you apply using your multiple sockpuppets that he showed us and you don't deny having either). You shot your mouth off on hosts against facts apk used there and you ran from them.

Re:Ask BarbaraHudson (alias tomhudson)

[Anonymous Coward]

Talk about projecting. Take your own advice. Quit the ac replies Barb. They give you away every single time and the minus mods you apply using your sockpuppet armies only help prove his point moreso.

Re:Ask BarbaraHudson (alias tomhudson)

[Anonymous Coward]

Looks like verifiable undeniable truth to me. BarbaraHudson = TomHudson = disgusting. Mod my reply down all you like. You have 2 times already thinking it hides it from others. Most people browse well below the default 1 level so you know. Keep it up though: Doing that projects that you don't like the truth being told about you Barb (or should I say Tom instead?).

Rational enough considering the subject here

[Anonymous Coward]

He pointed out you're an irrational fool that got a sex change (far from normal) to wcrowe. Barb, you can keep replying by ac all day and yes we still know it's you. The downmods on posts that simply show facts about you being a weirdo aren't hidden by it. We see them anyway. Doing downmods just projects your weakness.

Re:Rational enough considering the subject here

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, I can tell you for a fact I'm not *Hudson or a trans anything, but you just go on thinking that.

I really doubt wcrowe or pretty much anybody else on here actually cares about your persecution complex.

Ask BarbaraHudson (alias tomhudson)

[Anonymous Coward]

The resident transsexual monster + sockpuppeteer hhttp://slashdot.org/~BarbaraHudson = http://slashdot.org/~tomhudson... = http://slashdot.org/~Barbara%2... (those are only a small sampling of the sockpuppets that twisted by estrogen doses to a male brain keeps to upmod herself and to downmod her opponents with after "it" the 'shim' farms karma to do so via those multiple sockpuppets accounts on slashdot AND to be a stalker-harasser of others on slashdot http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

Barb the "TrAnStEsTiCLe-MoNsTrOsItY" weirdo also stalks/harasses by ac posts too as shown quoted here:

FROM http://slashdot.org/comments.p... :

"HOWTO: trolling the hosts file guy in one easy step The next time you see a post by him, just reply anonymously. And to really mess with his head, reply anonymously to your anonymous post, disagreeing with your first anon post (extra points if you claim in the second post that you're him - that REALLY sets him off)." - by tomhudson (43916) barbara.hudson@ ... a - h u dson.com on Saturday April 16, 2011 @01:38PM (#35841122) Journal

People - THAT is what estrogen doses to a male brain creates: Psychotic online stalkers/harassers and sickos that get sex-changes since they can't accept themselves as they are!

(Just verifiable facts quoted in black and white as proof)

Is your favorite color "transparent" or what?

[Anonymous Coward]

You care. Why else reply? He never said he had a persecution complex. Keep projecting you're attempting to persecute him why don't you? You're too stupid to live and very easy to see through, hence my question in my subject-line above to you. Get on topic, you trolling worthless dolt. Right you're not Barb. "Ok, sure" (not). Who are you fooling except yourself?