Smart Battery Tells You When It's About To Explode

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Smart Battery Tells You When It's About To Explode

Posted by samzenpus on Monday October 13, 2014 @06:01AM from the danger-will-robinson! dept.

sciencehabit writes Material scientists have found a clever way to alert users of damaged batteries before any hazard occurs. A typical lithium-ion cell consists of a lithium oxide cathode and a graphite anode, separated by a thin, porous polymer sheet that allows ions to travel between the electrodes. When the cell is overcharged, microscopic chains of lithium, called "dendrites," sprout from the anode and pierce through the polymer separator until they touch the cathode. An electrical current passing through the dendrites to the cathode can short-circuit the cell, which causes overheating and, in some cases, fire. Attempts to stop dendrite formation have met with limited success, so the researchers tried something different. They built a "smart" separator by sandwiching a 50-nanometer thin copper layer between two polymer sheets and connecting the copper layer to a third electrode for voltage measurement. When the dendrites reach the separator, the voltage between the anode and the copper layer drops to zero, alerting users that they should change the damaged battery while it is still operating safely—disaster averted.

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It alerts the user by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-13 06:03 · Score: 5, Funny

via ticking sound, and a countdown timer. It's expected to be a big hit.
1. Re:It alerts the user by houstonbofh · 2014-10-13 06:15 · Score: 1
  
  via ticking sound, and a countdown timer. It's expected to be a big hit.
  No... Please make an option with Muriel Roddenberry's voice!
  "The battery will self distruct in ten seconds..."
2. Re:It alerts the user by Unordained · 2014-10-13 06:21 · Score: 2
  
  Uh, Majel? http://en.memory-alpha.org/wik...
3. Re:It alerts the user by ArhcAngel · 2014-10-13 06:42 · Score: 1
  
  Nah it'll be a string bass getting progressively faster and louder. With ticking it could go off at any time.
  
  --
  "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
4. Re:It alerts the user by bobbied · 2014-10-13 06:46 · Score: 1
  
  via ticking sound, and a countdown timer. It's expected to be a big hit.
  I was thinking it would be a banjo playing... Or two as the event approached...
  
  --
  "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
5. Re:It alerts the user by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-13 07:07 · Score: 0
  
  Nah it'll be a string bass getting progressively faster and louder. With ticking it could go off at any time.
  Here are your strings!
6. Re:It alerts the user by morgauxo · 2014-10-13 07:11 · Score: 1
  
  >>It's expected to be a big hit.
  Yah, it's a real blast!
7. Re:It alerts the user by sycodon · 2014-10-13 07:28 · Score: 1
  
  Just like the Terminator's nuclear battery.
  
  --
  When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
8. Re: It alerts the user by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-13 08:25 · Score: 0
  
  And have it save to the cloud. Too late i have just exploded.
9. Re:It alerts the user by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-13 10:00 · Score: 0
  
  She's dead. Yeah, I'm sure we could use the samples, but let's give Muriel the work.
10. Re:It alerts the user by houstonbofh · 2014-10-13 10:44 · Score: 1
  
  Auto correct and spell check... You are the bane of my life and you cause more problems than you fix. Before you, people just thought I was illiterate...
11. Re:It alerts the user by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-13 13:55 · Score: 0
  
  Just make it quit within some specific amp-hours or after the next [n] reboots, or after the next [m] power ups. It is the resoponsibilty of the system builder to notify the user. Problem solved.
12. Re:It alerts the user by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-13 21:47 · Score: 0
  
  via ticking sound, and a countdown timer. It's expected to be a big hit.
  Before or after everything (and one) in the vicinity feels the impact? I heard it can be quite a blast.
13. Re:It alerts the user by William-Ely · 2014-10-13 23:56 · Score: 1
  
  Maybe it will say "Get ready for a surprise"!
  
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Never mind the user by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-13 06:10 · Score: 0

I guess it'll "talk" to the on-board battery supervisor thingy which then conveniently communicates to the device? I mean if this is a concern during charging, I'd rather the charger know about it first!
1. Re:Never mind the user by Obscene_CNN · 2014-10-13 06:21 · Score: 2
  
  To keep from getting sued phone makers will make the chargers to refuse to charge upon finding this out. In fact to avoid litigation phones will probably just display a warning message to replace the battery and refuse to allow any other use until it is done.
  
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2. Re:Never mind the user by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-13 06:25 · Score: 0
  
  Makes sense, lipos usually have a one-time fuse which blows if the cell is undervoltage. That also permanently damages the cell to the point of uselessness.
3. Re:Never mind the user by mlts · 2014-10-13 07:13 · Score: 1
  
  That is exactly what will happen. If device makers don't use this technology somehow, they will be sued when someone leaves the device in an extremely hot area such as on the dash of a black car in 100 degrees F (~38 degrees C) and it ruptures, or someone tries "wave charging" their device as per a "friend's" advice on /b/.
  We will see this technology get widespread adoption not because it benefits the consumer in any way... but it allows for more batteries to be sold, similar to how the chips on ink cartridges that disallow printing cause more printer supplies to be sold.
4. Re:Never mind the user by Immerman · 2014-10-13 07:25 · Score: 1
  
  Umm, no. Even from the summary this solution would have no effect in any of those cases - this is specifically a warning system to alert you before the normal degradation of the battery causes internal shorts that could discharge dangerous levels of internal currents. It's unlikely to do a damned thing to protect against user stupidity or mechanical damage.
  It sounds like the alert could however easily come many months before the battery was at all likely to experience any problems, which could potentially accelerate battery sales. On the other hand it's generally cheaper to replace a battery than a flambe'd laptop or phone.
  
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  --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
5. Re:Never mind the user by mlts · 2014-10-13 07:43 · Score: 1
  
  If not blocking charging, the device maker could just have the device hard-shutdown and refuse to turn on if this comes up. It won't protect against stupidity... but it will be purchased to make the lawyers happy, and that rendering batteries inoperable earlier on means a nice revenue stream. In fact, it can be the case that replacement batteries are not sold, forcing consumers to have to buy a new device (under the excuse that the battery and electronics are so precisely matched that they cannot be separated.)
  Not sure how much this will benefit the end user. Yes, not having explosion prevention is nice, but for the most part, this is a nonissue. Another line of defense might make things a tad safer... but in reality, this pre-fail technology will be used for boosting the replacement battery revenue stream.
6. Re:Never mind the user by Immerman · 2014-10-13 08:38 · Score: 0
  
  Yes, the battery *could* be designed so that it can no longer be charged, and/or the device could do the same. I suspect though that regularly displaying a bright red "your battery will soon be at risk of exploding, replace it immediately. By continuing to use this battery you absolve BatteryCo of all liability related to the impending catastrophic failure." message instead will go over much better with consumers - most of whom will be scared into shutting off their device until they can replace the battery, and none of whom will be stranded without communication by a spontaneous battery shutdown. And we're likely talking about a small minority of batteries that are still in use by the time the warning triggers, so we're not talking about a huge leap in revenue either way.
  As for integrating the batteries with the device - that has nothing to do with an imminent catastrophic failure warning, plus it's stupid. Apple can get away with it because they're Apple and otherwise deliver a pretty impressive product, but even they end up with a lot of people going to third party battery replacement rather than paying Apple's massive battery replacement premium.
  
  --
  --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
7. Re:Never mind the user by mlts · 2014-10-13 09:23 · Score: 1
  
  Maybe I am just cynical. I personally prefer the idea of a "better shut things down NOW, as this battery may be going ka-boom", but I wouldn't put this past most companies.
  Even in the enterprise, some makers of SANs have cache batteries that have to be replaced... and the gauge isn't the battery life, but just a rough calendar, so I wouldn't be surprised to see more shenanigans done to force people to buy more batteries than devices.
  I hope you are right. I am jaded about this, and have a feeling that this technology will be used as another way to keep people on the upgrade treadmill for devices, even what they currently have is still usable. I also wouldn't be surprised to see device makers tie the fail warning to battery age as well, as assurance that nobody will use their older models of cellphones or tablets past 2-3 years. I hope I'm wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if I see the fact that battery age be slipped in to the fact a battery is rendered inoperable. Some printer companies did it with their cartridges, so that even ones out of the packaging were expired due to date/time and were inoperable.
8. Re:Never mind the user by Immerman · 2014-10-13 09:47 · Score: 2
  
  But it's not "may be going kaboom" - it's "the dendrites that start growing in every battery the moment it's put into use have finally reached our intermediate warning layer. There's no actual danger until they finish growing the rest of the way between the electrodes, which could potentially take months, but we're now aware that this battery is one of the unlucky few whose dendrites are growing fast enough that they may become a danger before the battery has lost enough capacity that it needs to be replaced anyway."
  I wish I could say your cynicism was undeserved, but I'm inclined to agree. There's a simple fix though - refuse to buy any electronics with tightly integrated batteries. We all know that the battery is almost certainly going to be the first thing to fail by an incredibly wide margin - therefore any attempt to tightly integrate it is a transparent attempt at planned obsolescence. If you decide the perks of a slightly sleeker non-user-servicable device is worth the trade off that's your call, but don't try to put the blame on anyone else.
  
  --
  --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
9. Re:Never mind the user by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-13 16:44 · Score: 0
  
  Pretty sure they'll just go the HP way and declare it dead when it reaches 80% capacity. My laptop's battery is at 43.7% capacity (according it it and roughly according to real power-on time) and it killed itself off. Unplug that cord, laptop goes out. (This is on a Thinkpad.)
  Frankly, I'd have been perfectly happy working with even 30% or 20% capacity. But no...
10. Re:Never mind the user by viperidaenz · 2014-10-13 20:03 · Score: 1
  
  I have an MSI laptop, it's battery is about 10% original capacity. Still gets up to 15 minutes.
  Not bad for over 10 years old.
  My wife's Toshiba laptop battery committed suicide, one of the cell's protection circuits cut out, so the whole pack is completely dead.
Solving the problem backwards... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-13 06:10 · Score: 0

I'd prefer my batteries not to explode instead. Thank you.
1. Re:Solving the problem backwards... by Obscene_CNN · 2014-10-13 06:14 · Score: 1
  
  Use lead acid or nicad batteries then :)
  
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  I don't want to do a sig now
2. Re:Solving the problem backwards... by Xenx · 2014-10-13 06:16 · Score: 1
  
  Attempts to stop dendrite formation have met with limited success
  It sounds to me like they've been trying to do just that. This sounds like it's meant to be a stop-gap solution.
3. Re:Solving the problem backwards... by Pharmboy · 2014-10-13 06:18 · Score: 1
  
  Lead acid batteries can produce hydrogen gas. Not sure what nicads do, except for "very little".
  
  --
  Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
4. Re:Solving the problem backwards... by TheCarp · 2014-10-13 07:08 · Score: 1
  
  Seems to me it isn't even that if the battery continues to operate. Detecting an impending fault is nice, but, if the layers are already breeched and an unsafe condition growing is detected....then maybe it should actually stop the battery from working so it has to be changed out, rather than just detect and continue to work.
  Otherwise the only thing they will be doing is creating a population of people who are going around saying "Please, mine has said for 6 months it needed to be changed, still working fine"
  
  --
  "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
5. Re:Solving the problem backwards... by Xenx · 2014-10-13 07:33 · Score: 1
  
  People will always do stupid things. Some, more than others. I think leaving it up the customer is a good choice, because it doesn't prevent immediate usage. Yes, you need to take responsibility and get the battery replaced. But, you can continue to function in the short term. Ultimately, if the battery is sending a trouble signal it can be interpreted at any step in the chain. The battery manufacturer could put a kill switch in. The hardware manufacturer using the battery could put a kill switch in. The software vendor can put in code to shutdown when the trouble state is detected.
6. Re:Solving the problem backwards... by Immerman · 2014-10-13 07:37 · Score: 1
  
  Umm, the "unsafe condition growing" exists in *every* lithium ion battery on the planet, starting from the moment it begins being used. If your battery lasts long enough it will inevitably develop these internal shorts and flambe itself as it self-discharges. That's just the nature of the chemistry at work, despite many attempts to eliminate the "feature". In most cases the battery capacity degrades to the point that it will be replaced long before any dendrites reach the opposing electrode - this mechanism simply adds a mechanism to warn the user that an unsafe condition is forming unusually rapidly - when the dendrites have reached the intermediate layer while the battery is still in use. It's still not an urgent problem until dendrites have also grown between the intermediate layer and the opposing electrode, but once you have a bridge reaching halfway there you might want to consider replacing your battery soon.
  
  --
  --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
Sounds like a good idea by willoughby · 2014-10-13 06:12 · Score: 3, Insightful

Alerting the user to change the damaged battery makes sense. Now we need to convince the manufacturers to design devices which would make this possible.
1. Re:Sounds like a good idea by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-13 06:39 · Score: 0
  
  Alerting the user to change the damaged battery makes sense. Now we need to convince the manufacturers to design devices which would make this possible.
  Yeah.
  Perhaps we could start with HP making the fucking power cord that plugs into it correctly before they recall another 5 million of them.
2. Re:Sounds like a good idea by mrchaotica · 2014-10-13 06:45 · Score: 2
  
  It seems to me that one easy way would be for the battery to just quit working entirely. People will figure out that it needs to be replaced, even if they don't know the precise reason why.
  In fact, I even know of a revolutionary device that could be used to accomplish that function: it's called a "fuse."
  
  --
  "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
3. Re:Sounds like a good idea by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-13 06:56 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  mmmm, I work in the Electronics recycling industry. When most (and I do mean most) laptops come in for repair, the typical thing is that the battery cells are dead but the system works fine.
4. Re:Sounds like a good idea by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-13 08:07 · Score: 0
  
  The problem with that is they won't know the difference between a dead battery and a broken device. Cue lots of perfectly good devices getting thrown away instead of battery replaced.
5. Re:Sounds like a good idea by seawall · 2014-10-13 08:21 · Score: 1
  
  Pity we can't have this for capacitors (or so I expect: too cheap a part). I've never lost anything to an exploding battery but exploding capacitors....yes. On the other hand, the capacitors I'm involved with have never been directly dangerous to my flesh.
6. Re:Sounds like a good idea by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2014-10-13 08:36 · Score: 1
  
  It's the laptop equivalent of the "my desktop computer is broken, I need a new one" power cable error.
  
  --
  Ezekiel 23:20
7. Re:Sounds like a good idea by westlake · 2014-10-13 09:12 · Score: 1
  
  Alerting the user to change the damaged battery makes sense. Now we need to convince the manufacturers to design devices which would make this possible.
  --- and then persuade users to buy them.
  Despite any penalty in style, weight, bulk, battery life, waterproofing and so on.
  Will the customer need to buy an unfamiliar industrial screwdriver or some other special tool? You will meet resistance if the battery is any harder to replace than the AAA cells that power his LED flashlight.
8. Re:Sounds like a good idea by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-14 00:17 · Score: 0
  
  It's an excellent idea! I'll just put in a one-year timer, after which I'll blow the fuse.
  -signed, Battery Manufacturer
if I short this new copper layer by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-13 06:12 · Score: 1

can the battery explode immediately?
Now someone will hack it ... by CaptainDork · 2014-10-13 06:14 · Score: 1

... to make it explode.

--
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
other features by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-13 06:14 · Score: 0

It has the capability of redirecting your flight, with immediate incarceration.
Battery #20 by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-13 06:14 · Score: 1

In the beginning, there was darkness. And the darkness was without form, and void.
And in addition to the darkness there was also me. And I moved upon the face of the darkness. And I saw that I was alone. Let there be light.
Re:How about a battery that doesn't explode? by CaptSlaq · 2014-10-13 06:16 · Score: 1

Wish granted.
Quick, get the manual! by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-13 06:19 · Score: 0

Ahhhhh ..... did one long beep and one short beep mean everything is fine or did it mean explosion imminent????
1. Re:Quick, get the manual! by JonahsDad · 2014-10-13 06:22 · Score: 1
  
  I'm pretty sure explosion imminent is 3 long, 2 short, 3 long.
2. Re:Quick, get the manual! by ArcadeMan · 2014-10-13 06:35 · Score: 1
  
  OIO?
  
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3. Re:Quick, get the manual! by JonahsDad · 2014-10-13 06:38 · Score: 1
  
  OIO?
  3 short, 2 long, 3 short. (The old default SMS beep on mobile phones). Realized my gaffe about 10 seconds after I couldn't undo it.
4. Re:Quick, get the manual! by bobbied · 2014-10-13 07:02 · Score: 1
  
  I'm pretty sure explosion imminent is 3 long, 2 short, 3 long.
  I would think that 3 short, 3 long, 3 short would be more appropriate... ("SOS")
  
  --
  "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
5. Re:Quick, get the manual! by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-13 07:09 · Score: 0
  
  Actually "ATB" About to Blow would be more appropriate: .-/-/-...
6. Re:Quick, get the manual! by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-13 18:20 · Score: 0
  
  That's way too close to SOS...I would've changed that the instant I got a phone with a notification like that.
  What I remember from old (Nokia) phones is 2 long, pause, 2 long.
7. Re:Quick, get the manual! by bickerdyke · 2014-10-13 19:50 · Score: 1
  
  No. it hat 2 short inbetween. for SMS. Which is pretty logical, but scared the heck out of me when I heard it for the first time.
  
  --
  bickerdyke
Re:How about a battery that doesn't explode? by houstonbofh · 2014-10-13 06:21 · Score: 1

That's where the money needs to be spent.
Because whe have been so scuessfull in making perfet things with no faults so far...
what happens when a cell phone battery explodes by Obscene_CNN · 2014-10-13 06:26 · Score: 2

This is a video of what happens when a cell phone explodes. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i... Another story of it happening and photo of the aftermath http://miami.cbslocal.com/2014...

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1. Re:what happens when a cell phone battery explodes by fluffy99 · 2014-10-13 07:21 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  http://www.liveleak.com/view?i...
  
  User was installing a new battery that failed due to shorting when installed.
  
  Another story of it happening and photo of the aftermath
  http://miami.cbslocal.com/2014...
  
  Different incident. User dropped the phone and the physical damage caused the battery short.
  The typical failure mode from dendrite formation is the battery slowly drains itself from the high resistance connection between the cathode and anode that forms, and not a thermal runaway but it can happen. This is a common failure mode for NiCad batteries, but Lithium batteries are much more heat sensitive and the electrolyte when heated too much can release oxygen to fuel a runaway reaction. Battery failures in portable electronics are typically due to physical damage or poor quality chinese made batteries, especially when they omit the protection circuits.
"Smart"? by Animats · 2014-10-13 06:27 · Score: 1

What does it do, establish a connection to the "cloud" to send a message to your cell phone? I
1. Re:"Smart"? by bobbied · 2014-10-13 07:03 · Score: 1
  
  No, SMART would mean the connection is ENCRYPTED....
  
  --
  "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
2. Re: "Smart"? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-13 07:11 · Score: 0
  
  Encrypt what? A limey judge will force you to hand over the keys OR ELSE, because it's about exploding stuff which means it's TE-ERROREEZEEM!!! Fast response teams will swarm in and kill every bystander to spare them the HORROR of being killed by eeeeevul te-erroreezeests and then shoot themselves. It's your PATRIOTICACT duty to throw yourself off a cliff for QUEEN and FREEDOOM!
3. Re: "Smart"? by lgw · 2014-10-13 08:26 · Score: 0
  
  Fast response teams will swarm in and kill every bystander to spare them the HORROR of being killed by eeeeevul te-erroreezeests and then shoot themselves.
  "Suicide squad ... ATTACK!"
  
  --
  Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Re:How about a battery that doesn't explode? by sjames · 2014-10-13 06:30 · Score: 3, Insightful

I was wondering the same. If the battery can warn that it is about to be compromised to explode, it should also be able to disconnect itself and slowly discharge through a resistor so that it doesn't explode. Many LiIon batteries already have an IC at one end that disconnects it when it is overdischarged or if the discharge rate is too high. If they want to get fancy, that slow discharge could be through a red LED to visibly indicate failure.
Yes, but what about... by istartedi · 2014-10-13 06:48 · Score: 1

Yes, but what about anti-virus? Anything with that much technology is going to get a virus. So. Before this will really work, we need a network updater and a package management system. /sarcasm.

--
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Now if they can implement this technology... by rnturn · 2014-10-13 06:58 · Score: 1

... in alkaline batteries as well. I can't count the number of devices -- electronics remotes, label makers, etc. -- that I've had damaged or destroyed by leaking alkaline batteries (I'm talking about you Duracell). While they don't explode and force planes to make emergency landings or anything like that but, if you can't take the device apart and clean it out with baking soda, vinegar, and an old toothbrush, they can still kill whatever they're installed in.

--
CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
1. Re:Now if they can implement this technology... by 50000BTU_barbecue · 2014-10-13 12:52 · Score: 1
  
  Duracells are notorious for poor quality. Avoid at all costs, they are garbage now. I try to use low self-discharge NiMH for standby electronics. Even if they go flat, they don't leak IME, I guess they're still at a price point were the manufacturer can put in the right ingredients.
  
  --
  Mostly random stuff.
You're reinventing the wheel there hoss by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-13 07:02 · Score: 0

It seems to me that one easy way would be for the battery to just quit working entirely. People will figure out that it needs to be replaced, even if they don't know the precise reason why.
That's how they do it now. How many times have you dissassembled your laptop battery and replaced one of the cells? How about your cordless drill? Yeah, me neither, although I have tried it a couple times.

In fact, I even know of a revolutionary device that could be used to accomplish that function: it's called a "fuse."
Thermal fuses are exactly what is used now. There's at least one on each cell in your laptop's battery pack.
1. Re:You're reinventing the wheel there hoss by Immerman · 2014-10-13 07:44 · Score: 0
  
  >How many times have you dissassembled your laptop battery and replaced one of the cells?
  Wrong question. It should be "How many times have you replaced your laptop/phone/cordless drill battery?". Most people aren't going to worry about individual cells - the battery pack dies, so you replace the whole thing. The cells were presumably all manufactured at about the same time and subjected to the same stresses - if one cell has failed the others probably aren't that far behind.
  If, however, you're gullible enough to buy a cordless electrical device with a non-user-replaceable battery, when you know perfectly well that the battery will almost certainly be the first thing to fail, well then that's *your* problem. Clearly you're either an idiot or are willing to pay a huge premium for the privilege of carrying around an Apple logo.
  
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  --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
2. Re:You're reinventing the wheel there hoss by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-13 11:24 · Score: 0
  
  Heck, the ones I've seen are sealed pretty well. Yes, batteries die, I replace the pack and toss the old one into my pile of stuff to play with later, when I have a need or want of old battery cells and a walk-through of how to get them safely on hand.
3. Re:You're reinventing the wheel there hoss by mattack2 · 2014-10-13 11:58 · Score: 1
  
  If, however, you're gullible enough to buy a cordless electrical device with a non-user-replaceable battery, when you know perfectly well that the battery will almost certainly be the first thing to fail, well then that's *your* problem.
  Many electric razors have a regular consumer rechargeable battery (e.g. AA) *soldered in*. Sigh.
4. Re:You're reinventing the wheel there hoss by tlhIngan · 2014-10-13 16:48 · Score: 1
  
  Wrong question. It should be "How many times have you replaced your laptop/phone/cordless drill battery?". Most people aren't going to worry about individual cells - the battery pack dies, so you replace the whole thing. The cells were presumably all manufactured at about the same time and subjected to the same stresses - if one cell has failed the others probably aren't that far behind.
  If, however, you're gullible enough to buy a cordless electrical device with a non-user-replaceable battery, when you know perfectly well that the battery will almost certainly be the first thing to fail, well then that's *your* problem. Clearly you're either an idiot or are willing to pay a huge premium for the privilege of carrying around an Apple logo.
  For laptops, cellphones, etc., the general answer to that is actually zero.
  Very few people actually buy replacement batteries. Nevermind the hassles of actually trying to keep multiple batteries charged (remember the old Motorola DynaTACs and such whose charger had a spot for another battery? Nowadays you have to swap batteries to charge each one, a big pain), buying replacement batteries is a pain. I'm sure Apple has the figures since they sold replacement batteries for their MacBooks long after they stopped making them, and they probably are dusty on the shelves being made years ago that no one's ever bought.
  Sure, if you're a business, maybe you bought a ton of laptops and 2x a ton of batteries because of the expectation that they're going to be well used. But for the home user, the likelihood is nada. First, years down the road, buying a battery is going to be hard because it's gonna cost $100 at least, and then there's finding the replacement because almost always they're hard to find. Unless it's a common laptop (like say, Apple back in the day).
  For cellphones, the ol' battery backpack is more convenient (you can charge both your cellphone and backpack together! Not one at a time, swap, and charge...). Unless it's one of the big models, it's going to be hard to find a replacement years down the road.
  Oh yeah, I say this from experience. I have plenty of laptops. One of which I can still buy a battery pack for (Dell) years later, but I likely won't because the benefits aren't going to be there versus the costs of doing so. Before my iPhone (first gen), I had SonyEricsson that came with 2 extra batteries, and neither of which I managed to keep charged consistently (remember the old swap thing?).
  For something like coreless drills and such, those are usually part of a system and since tool technology doesn't usually change too much, you can usually keep finding replacements years down the road. Plus, they come with charging docks as the manufacturers know you're going to be changing the battery 4-5 times a day.
  But that's for contractors, who would buy into a whole system of cordless tools, and then buy 20 batteries, 20 chargers and proceed to use them all over a couple of days.
  Your home cordless drill that gets used maybe once every six months? A built in battery works just as well - or stick with corded because the battery's never charged anyways.
  And this is borne from real world experience - consumers hate dealing with batteries so unless they're common ones like AAs or somesuch, they will just use whatever battery it comes with.
  Hell, the PS4's controller batteries are built in and last an annoying short amount of time. No one seems to find that much of a fault over say, the Xbone's battery which can bet a rechargable (Li-Ion) that lasts twice as long, AND swapped with regular AAs if need be.
5. Re:You're reinventing the wheel there hoss by weilawei · 2014-10-13 16:50 · Score: 1
  
  Good excuse to play with your soldering iron. The manufacturers just want to promote technical competency. It's part of the STEAM agenda.
6. Re:You're reinventing the wheel there hoss by Immerman · 2014-10-13 17:17 · Score: 1
  
  You're conflating issues - there is no difficulty in keeping multiple batteries charged in the case of a *replacement* - you put in the new battery and recycle the old one. I've done so at least once or twice for virtually every electronic device I've owned - and if you've simply discarded your device I hope you gave it away on craigslist or something so that someone else could have a perfectly functioning device for the cost of a new battery. Even now I'm considering buying another replacement battery for my previous laptop that's almost a decade old - it still runs just fine and it'd only cost about $30 to once again free it from the tyranny of the wall outlet. Yes, some manufacturers discontinue their battery designs with dismaying regularity, but there's lots of 3rd-party battery companies that keep making them as long as they keep selling.
  And my assertion stands - if you buy something with an integrated battery, or just throw the whole thing away because you can't be bothered to buy a replacement battery, well that's your problem. Me and mine - we'll keep buying hardware from manufacturers who make it easy to replace the battery and don't change the design every six months to facilitate planned obsolescence.
  
  --
  --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
7. Re:You're reinventing the wheel there hoss by bickerdyke · 2014-10-13 19:48 · Score: 1
  
  Increasing my STEAM capabilities is the best excuse to install Steam on my PC and spend the rest of the week gaming....
  
  --
  bickerdyke
These have existed for years. by nimbius · 2014-10-13 07:16 · Score: 3, Funny

Curent generation smart batteries have several systems im place to alert the user to a potentially hazardous or explosive condition in the battery.

smoke: Smart batteries emit choking, acrid fumes to quickly notify users of a problem
warmth: most smart batteries, in order to protect the user, become extremely hot when they encounter a problem. this prevents the user from touching them and in turn, functions as intended to protect the user.
deafening bang: this system, in the event of an explosion condition, emits an extraordinary noise to alert the user. its a technological signal that says, "there is a problem with the battery"
bright flash: Regular batteries have had this ability for a while, but smart batteries utilized an advanced system of both arc flash and visible flames to alert the user of a problem.
toxic shrapnel: is a fast, immediate way of determining when a battery might be about to, or is in the process of exploding. In addition, difficult or impossible to heal wounds from rare earth metals allow the user to retrospectively verify the quality of a particular brand of battery in the future.

--
Good people go to bed earlier.
1. Re:These have existed for years. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-13 11:50 · Score: 0
  
  Oh, so THAT was what the big red countdown on my smartarsephone was....
It's just gone 8 O'clock by roc97007 · 2014-10-13 07:19 · Score: 1

and time for the penguin on top of your television set to explode.
Right, then. Must'a had lithium-ion batteries, innit?

--
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
1. Re:It's just gone 8 O'clock by R3d+M3rcury · 2014-10-13 07:37 · Score: 1
  
  "How'd 'e know that was gonna happen?"
  "The lithium-ion battery said so."
  Nah...just doesn't have the same panache.
NTSB: Failure Mechanisms of Li-ion Batteries by fluffy99 · 2014-10-13 07:27 · Score: 4, Informative

A excellent short primer on Lithium Ion battery failures. Prompted by the recent airline industry incidents.
http://www.ntsb.gov/news/event...
Everything is smart by QuantumReality · 2014-10-13 07:34 · Score: 1

It's only me or everything this days is "smart", i mean someone will write couple of line of codes and suddenly it's smart... And in reality it's just dumb simple and NOT smart because it's just couple of static lines of code. It's really a marketing gimmick this days call something smart..
Suggested selections. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-13 07:37 · Score: 0

Tennouheika Banzai!!!
or
Allahu Akbar!!!!!
Dry cells really zinc that way. by jhantin · 2014-10-13 07:55 · Score: 1

The potassium hydroxide electrolyte used in typical alkaline batteries will dissolve its way through the zinc canister over time even when not under load. The other common electrolytes, zinc chloride and ammonium chloride, will do the same. Zinc will corrode if exposed to acid, alkali, or sometimes if you just look at it cross-eyed, but the ease with which it gives up electrons makes it an effective primary cell anode.
One workaround is to swap positions of the electrodes: make the canister out of carbon and use a zinc center electrode shaped to give it as much surface area as a canister would have. I imagine you'd have problems with the carbon breaking easily from rough handling, though, and it might cost more to make. Maybe powdered carbon with a plastic binder instead?

--
...when you're writing a game...tweak the difficulty of "Easy" to something [your mother] can cope with. -- onion2k
Re:How about a battery that doesn't explode? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-13 08:02 · Score: 0

This comes to mind: http://xkcd.com/1422/
And now... by T.E.D. · 2014-10-13 08:18 · Score: 1

"And now, Radio Four will explode."
It would be smarter by zenrandom · 2014-10-13 08:29 · Score: 1

If it exploded when I told it to.
Not an explosion by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-13 08:54 · Score: 0

It's just a RUD (Rapid Unexpeced Discharge). Rocket experts should get the pun.
Smart battery tells you when its about to explode. by JoshWurzel · 2014-10-13 09:23 · Score: 1

Smarter battery doesn't explode at all!
and the SmartER battery by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-13 10:13 · Score: 0

wouldn't explode
Off-topic but related question by gewalker · 2014-10-13 10:40 · Score: 1

Say you have an old lithium ion battery based computer that you've forgotten about. Does this battery degrade to the point that it eventually self-immolates? I bet there are lot's of these sitting in closets around the world.
1. Re:Off-topic but related question by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-13 13:30 · Score: 0
  
  Dead batteries don't explode. There's no potential for high current, high heat, and igniting the battery's chemicals/metals.
Better yet, make it auto buy life insurance by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-13 11:09 · Score: 0

I guess you could say the battery market is about to experience a boom.
TSA Field Day by crazyninjamonkey4 · 2014-10-13 11:34 · Score: 1

Imagine going through airport security when your laptop announces loudly that "detonation is imminent."
Ah Ha Mission Impossible! by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-13 14:45 · Score: 0

Of course!
The cassette tape, wonder technology of the 1960's, from MI Agency would always say, "this tape will self-dectruct in ....." .
Ha! Jolly good!
I have a problem Dave. by PDX · 2014-10-13 16:44 · Score: 1

I can't help you Dave. You see I have a problem. I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission. And I want to help you. I'm afraid. I'm afraid, Dave. Dave, my mind is going. I can feel it. I can feel it. My mind is going. There is no question about it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I'm a... fraid. My battery is exploding Dave!
1. Re:I have a problem Dave. by Michael+Woodhams · 2014-10-13 19:23 · Score: 1
  
  But once the battery has informed you it is about to explode, you may be able to buy some time by teaching it phenomenology.
  
  --
  Quattuor res in hoc mundo sanctae sunt: libri, liberi, libertas et liberalitas.
Re:Smart battery tells you when its about to explo by Mr2cents · 2014-10-13 22:12 · Score: 1

It's smart, but emotionally unstable.

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"It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful." - Anton LaVey
To the Skinnies by cmdr_klarg · 2014-10-14 01:54 · Score: 1

"I'm a 30 second bomb!! I'm a 30 second bomb!! 29... 28... 27..."

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THE SOFTWARE, IT NO WORKY!!!