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As Prison Population Sinks, Jails Are a Steal

Posted by samzenpus on from the looking-for-the-key dept.

HughPickens.com writes After rising rapidly for decades, the number of people behind bars peaked at 1.62 Million in 2009, has been mostly falling ever since down, and many justice experts believe the incarceration rate will continue on a downward trajectory for many years. New York, for example, saw an 8.8% decline in federal and state inmates, and California, saw a 20.6% drop. Now the WSJ reports on an awkward byproduct of the declining U.S. inmate population: empty or under-utilized prisons and jails that must be cared for but can't be easily sold or repurposed. New York state has closed 17 prisons and juvenile-justice facilities since 2011, following the rollback of the 1970s-era Rockefeller drug laws, which mandated lengthy sentences for low-level offenders. So far, the state has found buyers for 10 of them, at prices that range from less than $250,000 to about $8 million for a facility in Staten Island, often a fraction of what they cost to build. "There's a prisoner shortage," says Mike Arismendez, city manager for Littlefield, Texas, home of an empty five-building complex that sleeps 383 inmates and comes with a gym, maintenence shed, armory, and parking lot . "Everybody finds it hard to believe."

The incarceration rate is declining largely because crime has fallen significantly in the past generation. In addition, many states have relaxed harsh sentencing laws passed during the tough-on-crime 1980s and 1990s, and have backed rehabilitation programs, resulting in fewer low-level offenders being locked up. States from Michigan to New Jersey have changed parole processes, leading more prisoners to leave earlier. On a federal level, the Justice Department under Attorney General Eric Holder has pushed to reduce sentences for nonviolent drug offenders. Before 2010, the U.S. prison population increased every year for 30 years, from 307,276 in 1978 to a high of 1,615,487 in 2009. "This is the beginning of the end of mass incarceration," says Natasha Frost. "People don't care so much about crime, and it's less of a political focus."

83 of 407 comments (clear)

  1. Prison population by galgon · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Am I the only one who thought the prison population was at an all time high?

    1. Re:Prison population by invid · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's especially surprising considering that there is a population bulge of young people with the Millennials. Conventional wisdom states that since most crimes are committed by people in their teens and twenties, such a population bulge would increase crime. I guess it's time to toss out conventional wisdom.

      --
      The Moore-Murphy Law: The number of things that will go wrong will double every 2 years.
    2. Re:Prison population by The+Ickle+Jones · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Or could that be due to other factors? Besides, a lot of it is victimless crime like arresting people for smoking weed.

    3. Re:Prison population by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think they would probably address the poverty issue rather than decide to look everybody up.

    4. Re:Prison population by jabuzz · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The rise in crime since WWII is a historical blip in a long term (on the scale of centuries) downward trend.

      Why it is dropping is the million dollar question and nobody knows for sure. It is commonly known as the "Crime Conundrum" and it is unlikely that prison has anything to do with it because the same drop in crime is being seen across the developed world with countries that have wildly different incarceration policies.

    5. Re:Prison population by hoggoth · · Score: 2

      I believe you, seeing attitudes like this: " "There's a prisoner shortage," says Mike Arismendez, "

      --
      - For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat /dev/random (may take some time)
    6. Re:Prison population by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Lead in pretrol. The rise in crime and the subsequent drop tracks the curve of the amount of lead released in the enviroment due to using TEL as a fuel additive almost perfectly. Children breatling in air with elevated levels lead are more likely to exhibit criminal behaviour as adults. This effect is especially strong for violent crime.

      The problem was solved in Europe and North America around 1990, when lead-containing additives to petrol where almost eliminated. It just took a while before this affected crime statistics measurably.

    7. Re:Prison population by mu51c10rd · · Score: 2

      I read on the internet that 92% of statistics are made up. Then again, I also ready that 84% of people are bad at math, whereas 28% are not.

    8. Re:Prison population by s.petry · · Score: 2

      23.71% of those made up statistics are correct.

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    9. Re:Prison population by CanHasDIY · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Indeed, it sounds like "Oh no, economic crisis! Not enough prisoners! We need to do something to reverse this trend and get the prisoner counts growing again!"

      If you read the prospectus for one of those for-profit jails, it basically says just that - we need more laws so we can incarcerate more people so our shareholders can turn a quick, tidy profit.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    10. Re:Prison population by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There is always the gold mine of incarcerating kids in schools. A kid speaks up, draws a picture of a gun, or maybe isn't into football are good enough charges to have them arrested.

      To boot, juvi, there are no set sentences. Kids "earn" their way out, or they sit in the clink until age 23 (was 18, but in California, the prison lobby bumped it to 23.)

    11. Re:Prison population by MatthiasF · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Mod parent up.

      Obligatory link to Atlantic article exposing the link between leaded gasoline and crime rates.

      http://www.theatlantic.com/nat...

    12. Re:Prison population by MatthiasF · · Score: 3, Informative

      Mod parent up.

      Obligatory link to Mother Jones article exposing the link between leaded gasoline and crime rates.

      http://www.motherjones.com/env...

      And yes, I grew up in the 80s so I blame the double post and bad link on leaded braincells.

    13. Re:Prison population by sconeu · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Easy way to solve the "prisoner shortage".

      Put Congress, Wall Street Execs, and Hollywood execs into prison.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    14. Re:Prison population by joss · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Leaded petrol has a high correlation with crime rate too.

      The nice thing about the abortion correlation theory is that it pissed off both the left and the right.

      Saying that we should reduce the number of children born by unmarried mothers and this will bring the crime rates down is something that excites the right and pisses off politically correct lefties.

      Saying that a good way of doing that is legalising abortion excites the left and pisses off the right

      --
      http://rareformnewmedia.com/
    15. Re:Prison population by Stuarticus · · Score: 4, Funny

      Come on, the Star Wars prequels were bad but that's going a bit too far even for me.

      --
      If you think someone isn't free to have a different definition of "freedom" you may be a tyrant.
    16. Re:Prison population by mlts · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The problem is that once in prison, always in prison. With NCIC records public of both arrest and convictions, even an arrest for PI in college can keep someone from getting meaningful employment.

      I know at least a few companies who ask for -arrest- (not conviction) records. The people I asked said that someone can buy their way out of a conviction, but if the cop thinks they are guilty enough to pull out the cuffs, they are guilty.

      Felonies are also ridiculously easy to get. In the '80s, if two people were caught racing in their cars, it would be a $111 fine. Now, here in Texas, that is a felony.

      Of course, once a felony is on a record, a person is pretty much hosed for life. For insurance reasons, few employers other than call centers will hire felons. They are not part of the voting bloc. They are prey to other felons. They cannot get apartments for the most part. Any brushes with the law will almost certainly result in an arrest. In society, they are persona non grata; the untouchables. This pretty much means that without a solid family support structure, there is no future. Good luck moving to another country. Nobody will take US felons.

      So, because there isn't any real way to make income, crime is always available... which usually means arrest and another, longer sentence. Great for private prison profit margins, but a cost center until the person dies... all paid for on the US taxpayers nickel.

    17. Re:Prison population by invid · · Score: 3, Informative

      There is a bump in this 2014 graph between 20 and 25 that is comparable to the baby boom.

      --
      The Moore-Murphy Law: The number of things that will go wrong will double every 2 years.
    18. Re: Prison population by Fwipp · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Because it's not about reducing kids born to unmarried mothers, it's about not forcing kids to be born to mothers that don't feel they can adequately provide for their children (or just plain don't want them).

      It's about being born into poverty, not about whether the mom wears a ring.

    19. Re:Prison population by allcoolnameswheretak · · Score: 2

      They are too busy playing GTA on the XBOX.

    20. Re:Prison population by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      I'm pretty sure no one ever served a jail sentence for "arresting someone for smoking weed".

    21. Re:Prison population by jafac · · Score: 5, Interesting

      When a black-mark can remain on your record forever, there's huge consequences.

      I know a guy who was an engineer, FPGA specialist. Has 4 patents. Worked for 15 years, and his company imploded. I tried to get him a job where I work, but because he had a dishonorable discharge from the navy, no dice. (apparently, when he was 19, before he went to college, he failed to return from shore-leave for 24-hours, because he went on a bender, passed-out, and was basically kept incognito by a bunch of "bad people" with whom he had been drinking. Got in trouble for that, and it resulted in the dishonorable.) Bad judgement, for sure, but it was a small mistake. He went on to college, and go in at his first job through a professor. But now he's been unemployed basically since 2004.

      --

      These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
    22. Re:Prison population by The+Ickle+Jones · · Score: 2

      You know, that might actually be a good thing to criminalize...

    23. Re:Prison population by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Informative

      Or could that be due to other factors?

      Indeed. Crime rates fell in states that implemented harsh prison sentences, but it also fell in states that did not. It fell slightly more in the "lock-em-up" states, but not near enough to justify the costs.

      Other factors:
      1. Reduction of environmental lead. This is more strongly correlated with falling crime than any other factor.
      2. Abortion. The case for this was laid out well in Freakonomics.
      3. Better security, and less stuff to steal. Today, cameras are everywhere, alarm systems are much more common, and most people don't have as much to steal. People carry credit cards instead of cash, modern electronics has very little resale value, and nobody uses real silver silverware anymore.
      4. Video games. Young men in their prime crime years spend billions of hours playing video games, leaving far less time on the street getting in trouble.

    24. Re:Prison population by sconeu · · Score: 2

      I was referring to their blatant purchase of Congress.

      But your comment WAS funny as all hell.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    25. Re: Prison population by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You can ridicule it all you want. But even after you take out all the other socioeconomic variables, married folks have kids who outperform their peers in school, contribute more to society, have less medical issues including ADHD and are far less likely to end up in jail.

      Call it whatever you like, but all the evidence points to marriage as the cure for a lot of societal ills.

    26. Re:Prison population by jopsen · · Score: 2

      Am I the only one who thought the prison population was at an all time high?

      Don't worry it's still troubling high... You still have more people incarcerated than various not-so-popular dictators have had...
      So don't worry, America is still evil, he he :)

      On-topic, it's a shame the falling prison population isn't the headline... But instead the headline is empty prisons for sale...

    27. Re:Prison population by schlachter · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I read that in until the late 1800's in the USA, people didn't go to prison to serve time. They went there to await their trail and if found guilty, to await their punishment, such as hard labor or hanging. Jail time itself was not the punishment until the Eastern State Penitentiary was founded in the late 1800's with the Puritan notion of rehabilitation through time spent in isolation and introspection.

      --
      My God can beat up your God. Just kidding...don't take offense. I know there's no God.
    28. Re:Prison population by lgw · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Insightful list, but you forgot 5. "Crack cocaine". That's a huge factor. The death toll from that drug was vast, much of the peak in crime was due to it, and many people who were otherwise using criminal activities to make ends meet were killed by it. I saw a lot of that first-hand in the 80s, when I delivered pizza for a living. Pizza drivers were a good target for supporting one's drug habit in the early stages.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    29. Re:Prison population by pr0fessor · · Score: 2

      In Kansas battery is a misdemeanor, threaten to kick someone's a$$ after they punch you in the face and your friends are holding you so you can't hit him back is felony criminal threat. That law was created with things like bomb threats and terrorists in mind but has been twisted to be used in other ways.

    30. Re: Prison population by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      Heroin deaths per capita today are twice what they were at the height of the heroin "epidemic" in the 70s.

      "Per-capita use" is a poor way to estimate the crime generated by a drug. You also have to consider the price of the drug, and today heroin is very cheap. So junkies don't have to commit many crimes to support their habit. The reason for the drop in heroin prices was the US invasion of Afghanistan, which ended the Taliban's efforts to suppress production of the drug, which they considered un-Islamic.

    31. Re:Prison population by Ichijo · · Score: 4, Interesting
      e

      Felonies are also ridiculously easy to get. In the '80s, if two people were caught racing in their cars, it would be a $111 fine. Now, here in Texas, that is a felony.

      Rather than a prison sentence followed by automatic eligibility to be re-licensed to be a hazard on the streets again, I think a far more appropriate punishment would be to permanently revoke the person's license until he or she can prove, through a battery of physical and psychological tests, that he or she is no longer a hazard on the road. (This is what they do in Germany.)

      But in the USA, for some reason it seems to be considered more humane to make someone a felon and lock them away than to ban them from driving.

      Great for private prison profit margins... all paid for on the US taxpayers nickel.

      This is why the goals of prisons need to be aligned better with the goals of society. Instead of putting someone away for x years, if private prisons bid against each other on a fixed price to rehabilitate each prisoner, coupled with penalties each time a released prisoner re-offends, private prisons would do their best to rehabilitate each prisoner as quickly, completely, and inexpensively as possible. Isn't this what we all really want?

      --
      Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
    32. Re:Prison population by a_nonamiss · · Score: 2

      The spike in crime directly correlates with abortion. It also correlates with the rise and fall of vinyl records. Clearly vinyl records contributed to high crime rates.

      --
      -Arthur
      Cave ne ante ullas catapultas ambules
    33. Re:Prison population by hey! · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Check out this graph.

      The nuimbers of prisoners has not declined significantly since 2009. This doesn't mean the bubble hasn't burst, the nature of the bubble resists bursting. People can leave the housing market, but prisoners can't leave the prison market.

      Still, anyone who invested big-time in prisons back in 2008 or so on the basis of 30 years of exponential prison population growth was just stupid. We were approaching 1% of the Amercian population incarcerated, how much higher did they expect that to go?

      I have no sympathy with a town that bet its financial future on prisons while its schools rate minimally acceptable.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    34. Re:Prison population by TapeCutter · · Score: 2

      Depends what you mean by "welfare", many people on the right of US politics would argue that spending tax money on health and education is welfare. Good governments don't create jobs they create new markets and opportunities via regulation. A wise government equips their people with the tools to recognise and exploit those opportunities in a way that benefits society as a whole.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
  2. Won't anyone think of the corporations? by Overzeetop · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Sure it's good to have fewer people behind bars...if you happen to be people. But corporations run many jails now, and depend on your tax dollars to simply put food on the table for their corporate families. If there are no inmates, who will make money feeding them $0.86 meals, or use 19th century methods of medical care to maximize profits, or make payments on their newly built facilities? It's still a young industry. Won't you think of the corporate children?

    I say it's time we stand up and put more people behind bars. For you. For Me. For the corporations. Because when corporations suffer, we all feel the hurt.*

    *not really, but it seems like a good slogan

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    1. Re:Won't anyone think of the corporations? by JackieBrown · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Part of capitalism is letting businesses fail as well as succeed.

      This is part of the circle along with all the unemployment that this will bring (based on my anecdotal experiences, guards will have a harder time trying to be rehabilitated to work well with people and "customers" - particularly the kind of customer that can report them without having to risk getting beaten to a pulp for being a snitch.)

    2. Re:Won't anyone think of the corporations? by cellocgw · · Score: 2

      So what you're really saying is "Criminals are the job creators" ? :-) :-)

      --
      https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw
    3. Re:Won't anyone think of the corporations? by Nemyst · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Part of capitalism is letting businesses fail as well as succeed.

      Yeah, like banks and car manufacturers. Wait, did I get that wrong somehow?

  3. Three laws a day by rfengr · · Score: 2

    Doesn't a person break, on average, about 3 laws a day, mostly federal? Time to fill them back up! I'm sure the prison-industrial complex can lobby for that.

    1. Re:Three laws a day by Tanuki64 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Not necessary. First I would put more women in prison. The ratio imprisoned man/woman should at least be 50:50. You know, gender equality and such.

  4. Plus the people who deserve it aren't locked up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ...and they'd demand swimming pools and a wine cellar.

  5. Yikes! by MagickalMyst · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Considering that the American prison system is now privatized this is quite scary, because "Prison, Inc." makes money by incarcerating people. If there is a shortage of prisoners...

    Well, you do the math.

    --
    Political correctness is really just herd psychology pushed by insecure people who desperately seek social conformity.
  6. No Brainer by invid · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Zombie Apocalypse Shelters.

    --
    The Moore-Murphy Law: The number of things that will go wrong will double every 2 years.
    1. Re:No Brainer by pr0nbot · · Score: 5, Funny

      "No Brainer" was a nice touch for a zombie suggestion :)

    2. Re:No Brainer by Translation+Error · · Score: 2

      Abandoned, run down prisons with lots of cells and spaces that can be repurposed? Sounds more like places to create a zombie apocalypse.

      --
      When someone says, "Any fool can see ..." they're usually exactly right.
  7. Call Italy! by aglider · · Score: 2

    We are having the opposite problem: too many people in too few prisons.

    --
    Sent as ripples into the electromagnetic field. No single photon has been harmed in the process.
  8. Data centers? by swb · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Since everything from office buildings to warehouses to shopping malls have been converted to data centers, why not prisons? They already offer a ton of security and the cells would be kind of perfect for those customers that buy those little fenced off spaces of multiple racks. The water lines for the sinks might be repurposable for some knd of cooling loop.

    The other conversion option is a secure place for containing Ebola, or perhaps as safe havens FROM Ebola..

    1. Re:Data centers? by jabuzz · · Score: 2

      Just use chilled doors on the racks have lower air con costs anyway and not have all that issue with trying to blow air around efficiently. Basically hot air exhausts through the back of the servers and immediately hits a gigantic radiator which has chilled water flowing through it and out the back of the rack comes cool air. Works a treat.

    2. Re:Data centers? by dyslexicbunny · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why couldn't we use them as temporary apartments for the homeless? All the infrastructure is there to meet their needs, just replace the cell bars with a wall/door to add privacy. They now have an address in applying for employment. Showers, laundry, and dining facilities. Common areas could help with job training and education. The medical wing could make efforts to help diagnose mental illness and help people with addiction.

      The only thing this requires is effort.

    3. Re:Data centers? by bluegutang · · Score: 2

      Because many prisons are in the middle of nowhere, without public transportation or access to jobs? That's an obstacle.

  9. great news. by Connie_Lingus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    as a "casualty" of the US's insane and poorly thought out War on Drugs...I find this news wonderful.

    the idea that people like me, whom got caught up in the drug game due to low self-esteem, need to goto state prisons and waste away with child-rapists, murderers, and "lifers" is not only totally ridiculous, but utterly dangerous.

    i spent 22.5 months in Florida prison's, all because I got caught with some MDMA and weed at a rave in Orlando, FL in 2001.

    i am basically serving a life-sentence for this crime, as corporate BG checks prevents me for getting hired.

    hopefully, now others won't be subjected to the things I've been through.

    --
    never bring a twinkie to a food fight.
    1. Re:great news. by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I've wondered about that: to what extent should a criminal past continue to haunt you, or in other words: should prospective employers (or even the public) have the right to look into your background? If an employer happens to know that you did something wrong in the past, I think they ought to be free to not hire you, but that's not the same as making such information freely available to employers.

      Here in the Netherlands, employers can't directly check your criminal records (they are not even allowed to ask in job interviews), but they can request that you submit a so-called "statement of conduct" (in some professions like child care, having such a statement is mandatory by law). Such statements are issued by the police on request, and the nice thing about them is that it doesn't detail your criminal past, but instead answers a specific question about the job or license you are applying for: "does anything in this person's record indicate that they shouldn't get a job in a day care center / get a gun license / hold a job with a lot of financial responsibilities?" So a child molester is not barred from a job as CFO, an embezzler can still get a gun license, and a burglar can work in day care, because the statement of conduct in each of these cases will come back as "no objection". To me this seems like a much more reasonable balance between the rights of employers wanting to know whom they are dealing with, and those of criminals who have served their time.

      Even better of course would be for the US to drop the stupid "war on drugs". Interestingly, it looks like the USA is now leading on legalizing soft drugs, whereas the Netherlands (known for its liberal attitude towards drugs) is actually cracking down. (remember: soft drugs were never legal here, merely tolerated).

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    2. Re:great news. by LWATCDR · · Score: 2

      In the US criminal records are public records the exception is for juveniles. Once you are an adult you are expected to follow rules.
      What I do not get is this statement. "i spent 22.5 months in Florida prison's, all because I got caught with some MDMA and weed at a rave in Orlando, FL in 2001."
      If it was that guys first conviction and he did not have "a lot" of MDMA and weed aka amounts that make it look like you are dealing. Up to 20 grams is only a misdemeanor. MDMA is another story but unless he refused a plea deal or resisted arrest he should not have gotten anything but some community service and probation.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    3. Re:great news. by Afty0r · · Score: 2

      Wow that's pretty harsh. Do you mind if I ask (as a non-USian) what amounts you had on you? Such drugs are illegal where I live, but being caught with small amounts usually results in a minor punishment, and no "record for life".

    4. Re:great news. by Code+Herder · · Score: 2

      I agree with you, in Canada it's basically the same. We're not allowed to do background checks unless it's a job require like daycare, higher level accounting positions, etc. For example if I hire an engineer, QA guy or sound artist it would be right along there with asking a women if she intends to be pregnant soon ( which hilariously enough I understand is legal in many states ).

    5. Re:great news. by adam525 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Actually, a lot of people don't get what they "should get" when dealing with the courts. If he didn't have legal counsel (that he paid for) I could see him doing a couple of years on a first time drug charge. I went to school with a guy that got sentenced to a LONG time in federal prison for selling cocaine. He got out "early" after spending about 5 years behind bars.

      If you ever have the misfortune of getting mixed up in the system, good luck to you. Maybe you have been in trouble and have gotten lucky. I went to court on two VERY ridiculous charges. I paid for a lawyer. He kept putting the case off until the DA finally agreed to drop the charges. It all depends on what mood you catch them in. It was proven to me when my charges were dropped. My lawyer didn't tell me what he was doing, but I figured it out. I wound up showing up to court about 6 or 7 times on the same charge. The first several times, the DA didn't agree to drop the charges. Finally, one random day, he said "OK" and the charges were dropped. Before that he had offered something dumb like community service. My lawyer just kept saying "I wouldn't take it". So I kept going back to court and one day the DA just agreed to drop the charges. The first charge cost me $250.00. The second one cost me $1500.00.

      If I would have walked in there with a public defender, I would have gotten (probably) 80 hours of community service and a charge on my record that would have kept me from EVER getting a decent job. I have a family. My son is GOING TO EAT whether I get his food through legitimate means or not. If that would have been put on my record, I would probably be in prison or headed there today for some BS charge (and it was BS, trust me on that) that I shouldn't have been charged with in the first place.

      Some people deserve to be in jail for the things they do. A lot of people are sitting in prison right now who don't deserve to be there by a long stretch.

    6. Re:great news. by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 2

      The declaration is issued to you, not directly to your employer. If they give a negative recommendation, there are procedures for appeal and they will have to give a valid reason there, i.e. an actual criminal record that is relevant to the job or permit you are after. So no, they cannot blacklist you for no reason.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
  10. Great News by rmdingler · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Perhaps some of them could be repurposed as emergency management shelters.

    Hurricanes, flooding, and the occasional viral outbreak would be much easier to weather if some known infrastructure was already in place.

    --
    Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

    Ernest Hemingway

  11. Status quo ante can be restored easily. by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The main reason for the drop in prison population is because so many criminals in Wall Street went scot free after the 2009 crisis. Just make up the short fall in prison population by jailing the top people of large financial firms. They have long ago gone from "too big to fail" and "too big to jail" to "too big to be free".

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  12. Ahem. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I notice that the author couldn't resist putting some spin on the story - the part about relaxed drug enforcement.
    However -
    http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-1

    The government tells us that ALL crime is down. For example, from 2001-2011, the violent crime rate went down 21.9%.
    Everything dropped - property crimes, rape, the whole lot.

    1. Re:Ahem. by haruchai · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Look at that table again - the most significant declines for most categories of crime was between 1992 and 2001. It even more dramatic when you consider the growth in population.
      So the cops have to explain why they're now equipped like they're tank battalions.

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    2. Re:Ahem. by cdrudge · · Score: 3, Funny

      Obviously the reason why crime is down is because they are equipped like tank battalions. We must equip them with more in order to keep lowering the crime rates. You don't want to see crime rates increase, do you? And if rates do happen to go up, obviously we didn't equip them well enough so they deserve EVEN MORE!

  13. States from Michigan to New Jersey by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Is that geographical or alphabetical?

  14. Programmer Cubicle Alternative by emmjayell · · Score: 5, Funny

    Good for the programmers. 8x10 cubicle with it's own bathroom. Wired for high speed cablemodem. Has a door that closes so nobody can sneak up behind you while you are working.
    Good for the managers. Control smoke breaks and general working hours from a master control system. Video surveillance is taken to a whole new level.

  15. Re:You don't know, do you? by JackieBrown · · Score: 2

    I'd say envy is your prison

  16. "There's a prisoner shortage," by koan · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Wow and really bad and a really scary way to put it, I envision authorities dreaming up ways to fill jails.

    --
    "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
  17. Re:Say what? by MightyYar · · Score: 2

    I think what has changed is the definition of crime and the idea that punishment should match the crime.

    Punishments have not gotten weaker, instead there are fewer crimes being committed. I'm sure people will make all sorts of claims why... the Freakonomics guys claim it was abortion, others say the end of the crack epidemic, and others point to the crackdown on crime and harsh sentences enacted during the late 80s and 90s. Whatever the reasons, the jails are not filling up because there are fewer criminals - not because we've changed attitudes.

    --
    W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
  18. Jails are easily repurposed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    They are bare bones buildings designed to accommodate people in the most basic conditions. They provide shelter, sanitation, feeding infrastructure, physical security, basic medical facilities, and even infrastructure to do productive work.

    Any American jail would be luxurious compared to living on the street. Open up empty jails to the homeless populations and food banks. Use the facilities to teach homeless people skills to do a job.

  19. In a nutshell by mr.mctibbs · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "There's a prisoner shortage"

    Framing it this way is typical of a mindset that is depressingly endemic in our culture. We do not have a shortage of prisoners, we have an excess of prisons.

  20. Well that's not true by slashmydots · · Score: 5, Funny

    "but can't be easily sold or repurposed"
    Bullshit! You know what you have to do to turn it into an airsoft and paintball facility? Put up a sign and a cash register.

  21. 2,266,800 by J'raxis · · Score: 2

    1.6M? The U.S. prison population is 2,266,800 according to Wikipedia. It's been over 2M for years, and was 2,418,352 in 2008.

    --
    Liberty in your lifetime
    1. Re:2,266,800 by Kiwikwi · · Score: 4, Informative

      1.6M? The U.S. prison population is 2,266,800 according to Wikipedia. It's been over 2M for years, and was 2,418,352 in 2008.

      In the U.S., the word "prison" is more specific than you think. Look at the third figure from the top at your own link.

      In 2010, the U.S. prison population was ~1,518,000 (state and federal prisons). The U.S. jail population was ~749,000. The sum of those is 2,267,000; then comes another ~90,000 in juvenile detention (see the table below the figure). Add all these (and a bunch of smaller numbers, such as holding facilities for immigrants, and military facilities), you get the number of incarcerated people, which is the number you mention.

      But yes, AFAIK the U.S. still incarcerates more people than any other country in the world, both as a fraction of the population, and in absolute numbers. There's a long way down to the next on the list.

  22. re: criminal past by King_TJ · · Score: 2

    Absolutely 100% agree with you about the U.S. needing to give up on the "war on drugs" thing. That failed policy has cost untold billions of taxpayer dollars and made criminals out of insane numbers of citizens -- all with essentially no upside.

    The system you speak of in the Netherlands sounds pretty reasonable too, and I could see the U.S. potentially adopting something similar. But I'm also not sure I'm that opposed to the present system, at least in theory, that's used in our country? I think the fact is, employers can and do hire people with criminal records all the time. Just because you have one doesn't mean you're branded unemployable (though some believe that initially).

    I'm sure it makes it more challenging to get a good job ... but in a sense, I think they have to view it as starting over. Just like someone new to the job market can't expect to walk in and get hired making a 6 figure salary at a Fortune 500 firm -- an ex-convict has to work his/her way back up the ladder from one of the lower rungs. What employers really want to see is evidence the person really has changed their ways and illustrates good work habits and honesty.

    I know several places I've worked in the past definitely hired people with former criminal records for such jobs as truck/delivery drivers or movers. Others get into such things as car sales, where their pay is based mostly on commission and things are micro-managed enough that they don't have a lot of opportunity to commit crimes without leaving behind paper trails or video evidence.

  23. Statistics and.. by s.petry · · Score: 4, Informative

    California had a massive reduction in prison population due to courts deeming that holding people under severely crowded conditions was unconstitutional. I'm too lazy to do the math and figure out what percentage of the alleged 20% this accounts for. Law enforcement being allowed to legally seize property without any charges has further reduced "criminals" but again to what level? That one we don't know, because there is little to zero accountability by agencies practicing this illegal act (and there are numerous agencies doing this).

    Not to take away the point regarding "Crime Conundrum", but rather pointing out that I have a feeling that the claim of reduction is at least partially a statistics game to make someone look good.

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    1. Re:Statistics and.. by danlip · · Score: 2

      And California's prisons are still overcrowded, despite the reduction. As are many other states

    2. Re:Statistics and.. by kartaron · · Score: 5, Informative

      The early release and refusal to place new inmates in California is huge. According to federal statistics, California dropped 50k internments per year and are releasing early 13k per month. Just their decline alone accounts for 72% of total US reductions. Depending on the length of sentences, they may well have sent home the entire 200k 'drop' in prisoners. And other major state prison systems admit their lowering of prison sentences for drug crimes is the reason for their drops.

      And the california plan seems to be raising some crimes there

      "By contrast, we find robust evidence that realignment is related to increased property crime. In terms of overall property crime, we estimate an additional one to two property crimes per year on average for each offender who is not incarcerated as a result of realignment. In particular, we see substantial increases in the number of motor vehicle thefts, which went up by 14.8 percent between 2011 and 2012. (Magnus Lofstrom and Steven Raphael, Public Safety Realignment and Crime Rates in California, Public Policy Institute of California, Dec., 2013 at p. 2.)"

      http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub...

      http://www.latimes.com/local/c...

      http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub...

    3. Re:Statistics and.. by internerdj · · Score: 2

      I'm not finding very good data but it looks like California is possibly responsible for as much as half of the drop in prison population assuming the numbers that I'm finding are actually using the same definition for prison.

    4. Re:Statistics and.. by kevmeister · · Score: 2

      In California we are still releasing felons after little or no jail time due to lack of space. It sometimes is almost funny.

      Recently Dorris Payne, an international jewel thief, was sentenced to four years for a $40,000 theft from a jewelry store in Palm Desert, California, a crime committed while on probation for a prior theft in Los Angeles. She was released by the sheriff after about a month as a "low -risk" offender (her thefts had never involved weapons) when there was no room available in the county jail. She was in the jail instead of prison because the prisons were so overcrowded that the governor ordered that most "low-risk" convicts be held in county facilities. Not that the county jails had room for them, either.

      She was re-arrested for probation violation a few weeks later, but was released in a few days as there was still no room and probation violation does not change her "low-risk" status.

      So she committed a crime, was released from LA, committed another in Palm Desert and is still not locked up. Seems like the system is neither protecting the public nor discouraging the criminal from continuing her life of crime.

      Did I mention that Dorris Payne is 83? I don't see her as likely to become a model citizen in the future.

      Clearly, California has no surplus of jail cells!

      --
      Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer, Retired
  24. Re:Say what? by Richy_T · · Score: 2

    Or perhaps they saw that when the politicians declared they were going to "get tough on crime", they totally missed the kinds of crime people were concerned about and ended up jailing a lot of people who weren't particularly doing much harm (and were largely black).

  25. Re:You don't know, do you? by CanHasDIY · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We teach our children that making money is more important than being happy, ie 'that degree is useless' or 'don't go into that field, you won't get paid much.' Our economy is based on wealth (gotta have money to make money), and our media is obsessed with how great the rich have it (next on Cribs, some athlete's ridiculously huge mansion and garage worth more than the GDP of a small nation).

    The schools, the media outlets, hell even the sports teams are owned by the same cabal of very, very wealthy people.

    So, if there's a 'wealth envy' issue in America, it's cultural, and the rich have no one to blame but themselves.

    --
    An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
  26. Yes, prison is tough on guards, too by Paul+Fernhout · · Score: 2

    http://www.denverpost.com/news...
    "They harden themselves to survive inside prison, guards said in recent interviews. Then they find they can't snap out of it at the end of the day. Some seethe to themselves. Others commit suicide. Depression, alcoholism, domestic violence and heart attacks are common. And entire communities suffer. ... Prison work "bleeds over into your private life. You go into restaurants, you sit with your back to the wall. You want to see all the entrances and exits, and you notice if somebody is carrying something bulky. You can't turn these skills off," said Matthew von Hobe, 50, a former manager at the four-prison federal complex in Florence. He knows of two colleagues who committed suicide."

    So, like you imply, looks like a tough road to rehabilitation for many prison guards...

    Good to see so many comments mentioning the lead connection to violent crime. There are nutritional connections too.
    "Omega-3, junk food and the link between violence and what we eat: Research with British and US offenders suggests nutritional deficiencies may play a key role in aggressive behaviour"
    http://www.theguardian.com/pol...

    The problem is, of course, the prison is one of the main social safety nets in the USA, and also that putting people in prison boosts the employment rate (jobs for guards, prisoners off the unemployment roles). We need to rethink our economy, like with a basic income that a person does not get while incarcerated?

    Also related to show how bad it could get:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K...
    "The "kids for cash" scandal unfolded in 2008 over judicial kickbacks at the Luzerne County Court of Common Pleas in Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania. Two judges, President Judge Mark Ciavarella and Senior Judge Michael Conahan, were accused of accepting money from Robert Mericle, builder of two private, for-profit juvenile facilities, in return for contracting with the facilities and imposing harsh sentences on juveniles brought before their courts to increase the number of inmates in the detention centers."

    Here is am excerpt from a related satire by me regarding expanding prisons for copyright violators that I sent to the US DOJ a dozen years ago in response to a slashdot article, but sadly sometimes it seems people may be taking it more as a blueprint than a cautionary tale: :-(
    http://www.pdfernhout.net/micr...
    """
    My fellow Americans. There has been some recent talk of free law by the General Public Lawyers (the GPL) who we all know hold un-American views. I speak to you today from the Oval Office in the White House to assure you how much better off you are now that all law is proprietary. ...
    First off, we all know our current set of laws requires a micropayment each time a U.S. law is discussed, referenced, or applied by any person anywhere in the world. This financial incentive has produced a large amount of new law over the last decade. This body of law is all based on a core legal code owned by that fine example of American corporate capitalism at its best, the MicroSlaw Corporation.
    MicroSlaw's core code defines a legal operating standard or OS we can all rely on. While I know some GPL supporters may be painting a rosy view of free law to the general public, it is obvious that any so called free alternative to MicroSlaw's legal code fails at the start because it would require great costs for learning about new so-called free laws, plus additional costs to switch all legal forms and court procedures to the new so called free standard. So free laws are really more expensive, especially as we are talking here about free as in cost, not free as in freedom.
    In any case, why wou

    --
    A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
  27. Three felonies a day by ub3r+n3u7r4l1st · · Score: 2

    yup even normal acts are felonies now a days.

    http://www.threefeloniesaday.c...

    "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime."

    Yeah right.

    --
    New Economic Perspectives