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Microsoft Exec Opens Up About Research Lab Closure, Layoffs

alphadogg writes It's been a bit over a month since Microsoft shuttered its Microsoft Research lab in Silicon Valley as part of the company's broader restructuring that will include 18,000 layoffs. This week, Harry Shum, Microsoft EVP of Technology & Research, posted what he termed an "open letter to the academic research community" on the company's research blog. In the post, Shum is suitably contrite about the painful job cut decisions that were made in closing the lab, which opened in 2001. He also stresses that Microsoft will continue to invest in and value "fundamental research".

55 comments

  1. well of-course they are firing by roman_mir · · Score: 0, Troll

    Of-course MS is firing American workers, why is it a surprise? The surprising part is that they are not doing it faster and bigger, but I guess everything in its time. There will be more cuts and then more and eventually MS will transition its operations to Asia out of the West, where the productive Asians can actually afford to purchase their products, while the Americans can purchase less and less, made unproductive by their socialist/fascist state and ideology.

    1. Re:well of-course they are firing by JustNiz · · Score: 1

      Thats fine.
      I for one wouldn't want any Microsoft products even if they were giving them away.

    2. Re:well of-course they are firing by roman_mir · · Score: 1

      That's fine if the products services are not something you personally find useful or enjoyable, of-course that's not fine for all those people that are fired and who will be fired in the future and it's not fine for those who actually want to use MS products (I suppose there people in that group as well) and it's obviously not fine for the general state of USA economy, as MS is just a symptom of a much larger trend. It's not fine for USA trade imbalance for example.

    3. Re:well of-course they are firing by Etherwalk · · Score: 1

      State and ideology don't make research labs productive or unproductive. Work ethic, institutional design, budget, and recruiting practices do.

    4. Re:well of-course they are firing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of-course MS is firing American workers, why is it a surprise? The surprising part is that they are not doing it faster and bigger, but I guess everything in its time.

      Satya Nadella and his Indian minions will preferentially hire and promote fellow Indians in the U.S. while moving more and more work to India.

      In other words, expect to see Microsoft follow in the steps of IBM.

    5. Re:well of-course they are firing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I for one wouldn't want any Microsoft products even if they were giving them away.

      Then why are you reading MicrosDot?

    6. Re:well of-course they are firing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      State and ideology's influence on research labs is why we don't all speak German right now.

    7. Re:well of-course they are firing by LifesABeach · · Score: 2

      I saw this happen to Main Frames, then to Mini's; now for Micro's. I've seen so many dynasties come and go, I wager Apple will be next; it just doesn't know it. Quantum Computing, I can hardly wait. Is this a wonderful time in history or what?

    8. Re:well of-course they are firing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Calling the United States of America socialist is laughable. They could do with some more socialist policies.

    9. Re:well of-course they are firing by ogdenk · · Score: 0

      Really? Kind of funny since IBM was directly selling the Nazis punch-card tabulation machines and other tech to make their extermination of the Jews more efficient.

      Henry Ford was also an ardent Nazi supporter.

    10. Re:well of-course they are firing by ogdenk · · Score: 2

      It's only socialist if you're very poor or in the top 1%. The rest of us are clearly the enemy.

    11. Re:well of-course they are firing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why did you put a dash in "of course"?

    12. Re:well of-course they are firing by JustNiz · · Score: 2

      Hey I'm all for the free market economy. I know Microsoft unfortunately won't ever just gio bust and die but if they did:

      * Lots of other smaller companies and innovative startups that Microsoft are actively keeping down will now get a shot at a more level marketplace.

      * A massive patent portfolio would open up thus removing a very large damping effect currently in place around the entire sofware industry.

      * Software tech especially OS's will probably suddenly make a noticeable leap forward (for the above reasons)

      * Windows finally going away will be a strong opportunity/motivator for more awareness and acceptance of Linux on the desktop.

      * The net quality of work and therefore respect that Software Engineers get will noticeably increase because the crappiest code hackers most often seem to be the ones that don't know anything other than Microsoft Tools/APis. They will all finally have to get a clue or find another career.

    13. Re:well of-course they are firing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      * Windows finally going away will be a strong opportunity/motivator for more awareness and acceptance of OS X on the desktop.

      FTFY.

      Now, before you brand this "Trolling", please stop and consider that, in order to succeed (rather than "Suck Seed") at replacing MS Windows on the Desktop, two things must absolutely, positively, happen:

      1. The Platform must run Microsoft Office. Not Libre Office. Not iWork, nor anything else. OS X does this. Linux does not.

      2. The Platform must run Photoshop. Not The Gimp. Not Pixelmator, nor anything else. OS X does this. Linux does not.

      And "online" editions of the above simply do not get it.

      So, Linux Fanbois. You have your Mission. Get to it. You've already had nearly 2 decades; but perhaps there's still hope...

    14. Re:well of-course they are firing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We already destroyed you with Android devices. Just admit defeat and die a decent death. Thanks.

    15. Re:well of-course they are firing by JustNiz · · Score: 1

      I think it would actually be good for both Linux and OSX.
      I also think people would move on from office fairly quickly if they ever got to actually experience anything else.

  2. Bull by TWX · · Score: 5, Insightful

    He also stresses that Microsoft will continue to invest in and value "fundamental research".

    That's a load of bull. Just about every company that's had significant research institutions and has closed them down has suffered long-term from that choice. Xerox, Bell, IBM, and several others in telecom/computing alone have done this and suffered the consequences.

    Fundamental research is what drives long-term profit. Sure, it costs money. But it also produces patentable products that can revolutionize the market and allow the company to profit from patent licensing even when they aren't interested in the market that the patent would apply to. Get rid of the research and the company's products go stale over time, no new ideas, rehashing of existing ones to the point that someone with new innovation comes along and steals away all of the customers. Short-term it might make more profit, but long term it's like selling one's investments for cash.

    This is a terrible mistake for Microsoft.

    --
    Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    1. Re:Bull by NotInHere · · Score: 1

      But it also produces patentable products that can revolutionize the market and allow the company to profit from patent licensing even when they aren't interested in the market that the patent would apply to.

      I know that Microsoft makes a shitload of patent fees from Android devices. Were those patents researched at Microsoft labs?

    2. Re:Bull by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is a mix. Generally business oriented patents would be from product development. In this case almost a decade of making a crappy smart phone OS before anyone else. When I worked there I did utilize some of the papers from research, some of that should have been patentable considering it was alternative algorithms to what Google patented. In general MSFT does not really incentivise filing among engineers. I have no idea why anyone would bother as it is a crap load more work for years for the equivalent of a nice dinner and a chunk of glass.

    3. Re:Bull by SeaFox · · Score: 3, Informative

      Short-term it might make more profit, but long term it's like selling one's investments for cash.
      This is a terrible mistake for Microsoft.

      Yes, but not for the people running it.

      By the time the brain drain has it's long term effects, the executives will have jumped away, in come cases into retirement, with their golden parachutes. It's only the long-term investors and loyal employees who will have to deal with how it ruins the company.

    4. Re:Bull by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 5, Interesting
      Microsoft got a $billion from Samsung last year in Android patents. Others are also paying royalties to Microsoft.

      In other words, Microsoft is making more profit off Android than they are off their own phones.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    5. Re:Bull by timeOday · · Score: 4, Insightful
      It is very premature to excoriate Microsoft for discontinuing research. Yes they closed the Bay Area site, but Microsoft Research is headquartered in Redmond, along with Microsoft Corporate HQ. If anything, Microsoft has been knocked for pouring money into MS Research with little to show for it (although their patent portfolio may be the most profitable thing they have going in the mobile arena).

      If Microsoft is flagging, I actually don't think it's lack of research, in their case. They are way out in front of every movement in industry (hence the patent fees), what they lack is the design and marketing to capitalize on it themselves.

    6. Re:Bull by peragrin · · Score: 1

      While true that only works if you do something with that research. Msft research designed some cool things, that would
        have drastically changed tech. The problem is Microsoft never capitalized on those projects. !Microsoft was driven by marketing ( see longhorn feature list).

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    7. Re:Bull by Bonobo_Unknown · · Score: 1

      Xerox's problem was that they didn't listen to their r&d people.

      --
      We don't believe in radical loony monotheistic religions from the middle east -- we're Christians.
    8. Re:Bull by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      Did you miss the part where the layoffs amount to approximately 50 people out of an existing pool of > 1000 researchers?

      In other words, Microsoft laid off about 5% of its research staff, and the other 95% remains intact.

    9. Re:Bull by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Xerox's problem was that they didn't listen to their r&d people.

      Microsoft doesn't listen to their R&D people either.

    10. Re:Bull by Teresita · · Score: 1

      Microsoft is making more profit off Android than they are off their own phones.

      Samsung is cool with that since they haven't challenged Microsoft. The bottom line of the cost-benefit analysis says go ahead and pay the Redmond tax, obviously. The offering from Google is free, and their own operating system never got any traction.

    11. Re:Bull by k31 · · Score: 2

      Not really.

      Somebody has to do fundamental research, but then they have to have big coffers to defend those patents in court -- big companies can win the war whilst losing every battle, like Sony did versus the makers of Bleem. Sony lost in court but Bleem went out of business in the meantime, and the employees scattered, some working for Sony anyhow.

      Similarly, if you want to advance anything nowadays, you have to be working for a company that is already successful, and if you can do your job and find time for research, then why have a separate research department which is not doing anything towards development?

      There is enough leftover wisdom from the Space Age to give tons and tons of innovations, but in fact, there is profit to be made by doing two things:
      1) the same thing, but with less burden (financial, cognitive, or social) on the customer -- e.g. Netflix vs Cable, WIMPs vs. CLIs, any so-called social media which does not require you to actually take a shower, get dressed, leave the house, or even own a house)
      2) things which were done before but with less specs, e.g. "HD remakes" of older games.

      Microsoft, in particular, is now in a state of maintaining its monopoly at all costs, which is a well understood problem, and a matter of maintaining mind-share and blocking competition rather than growing market share or being competitive. It does not need research at all.

      It can just buy (or license) it, and bully those who do not comply with underhanded legal tactics (patent trolling, sue-to-death, et cetera).

    12. Re:Bull by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you read between the lines, they are firing off the inmates that started running the asylum. How do you think they created up the windows 8 design? Loads of studies and research that said people prefer big dumb fat fingered interfaces and here's how to do it best.

      The problem was that their main customers are not using touch interfaces; and did not want to only run 1 app at a time or go back to DOS era window tiling. Not only did they do this, but they spread that fat fingered UI design to Office 2013. Have you seen it? _BRIGHT_ white or 2 shades of overcast grey are the color themes, uppercase menus, even less options in the toolbar.

      I'm starting to think the only people they used for their focus groups were obese old people with bad vision.

    13. Re:Bull by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Samsung is cool with that since they haven't challenged Microsoft.

      Yes they have.

      "Bad Microsoft Android patents may lie behind Samsung lawsuit"
      http://www.zdnet.com/bad-micro...

    14. Re:Bull by steelfood · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Sorry, I do have to bring something up. One of Microsoft's most lucrative patents is for FAT32. One of the reasons they're making so much money off FAT32 patents is because some genius standardizing SD flash cards put in a requirement that all SD cards use FAT32 ("genius" may or may not be sarcastic). Thus anyone who wants to include a SD card reader, including microSD cards, must license the patents from Microsoft.

      However, the tides may be changing after Alice vs. CLS. Those FAT32 patents may not be valid anymore. In which case, Microsoft is about to lose a fairly large revenue stream.

      I don't disagree that they are still fairly research-heavy, and that it's a good thing. The problem I see is that their business side (marketing, sales, etc.) has a history killing all the cool stuff that's coming out of their engineering side (including research). This closure may be symptomatic of a continuance of that culture under the new CEO, or it may not. Without intricate knowledge of the internal politics at play (because it's Microsoft and there's always politics at play there), it's hard to say for certain either way.

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
    15. Re:Bull by silveride · · Score: 1

      Not necessarily. Microsoft , if it ever feels shortage for patents, can always buy other companies who have those. As far as the OS goes, they already have a lead in the business, and the best strategy for them is to copy original works from other competitors and provide them to their wider customer base.

    16. Re: Bull by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It could have something to do with the significant tax breaks in washington state for software and technology research.

    17. Re:Bull by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Check your facts, please. IBM's world-wide research organization is still very much alive and well funded.

    18. Re:Bull by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The problem I see is that their business side (marketing, sales, etc.) has a history killing all the cool stuff that's coming out of their engineering side (including research).

      I spent 10 years working for Microsoft and I can tell you that in 90% of cases it is engineering and not marketing or sales who is responsible for killing cool projects.

      To understand Microsoft you must realize it is not a large monolithic company, but an aggregation of fiefdoms. And each one of them is extremely protective of its own turf. Therefore the Office group will do everything it can to kill any initiative that could threaten their business. The Windows group will kill any project that would attempt to use a non Windows kernel. And so on...

      Twice in my MS career I was involved with projects that tried to add functionality to a product while working outside of that product's org. Both times the product's owners shut us down, even though we were really close to a fully working / shippable solution. It doesn't even help to have support at the top. One of those projects was Gates' idea. It still got shelved.

      The "not invented here" syndrome (where "here" doesn't encompass the whole company but one's immediate group) is endemic at Microsoft. That's also one of the reasons why basic building blocks fail to be reused across products.

    19. Re:Bull by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Or maybe he is just accepting reality, which is unless there is some major breakthrough we're pretty much finished innovating? The cost to get below 20nm has been calculated to be non-profitable for pretty much everybody, sure Intel is doing it but they are also shutting fabs because chips have been insanely overpowered for several years now and ARM? ARM don't scale, once you go past a certain MHz it shits all over its power budget which is why we are now up to octocore on the ARM side.

      The simple fact is that all the really good uses for tech have been done, which is why Apple is grasping at straws with the iWatch. Computers, be it desktop or mobile, are gonna end up like washing machines, things you don't replace until they break. You can stuff 'em in tables and walls and watches all day long but unless we come up with either some super new battery tech or some new material that doesn't have electron leakage? We are pretty much as high as we are gonna go. Hell even gaming can't punish the systems like it used to, a C2Q from half a decade ago can easily play damned near every game out there, there just isn't anyway to go higher without blowing LOTR money on the game.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    20. Re:Bull by Insanity+Defense · · Score: 1

      WinCE and the "Jupiter Machines" were a precursor of Netbooks but too early and too expensive. When the Netbook finally arrived they set out to destroy it because it ran Linux (like the Netbook Im posting from)

    21. Re:Bull by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Twice in my MS career I was involved with projects that tried to add functionality to a product while working outside of that product's org. Both times the product's owners shut us down, even though we were really close to a fully working / shippable solution. It doesn't even help to have support at the top. One of those projects was Gates' idea. It still got shelved.

      The "not invented here" syndrome (where "here" doesn't encompass the whole company but one's immediate group) is endemic at Microsoft. That's also one of the reasons why basic building blocks fail to be reused across products.

      That's great! I hope they keep up the good work in that regard. We won't have to suffer them for much longer; given that attitude and flagging (or is that "sagging"), sales.

    22. Re:Bull by macs4all · · Score: 1

      I'm starting to think the only people they used for their focus groups were obese old people with bad vision.

      Hey! I happen to be an obese old person with bad vision, you insensitive clod!

      And no, I wouldn't want all-caps Menus. That actually reduces readability.

    23. Re:Bull by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Is it the closure of research labs that caused those companies to decline, or was it because the companies had started to decline that the shut down the research labs?

    24. Re:Bull by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      I thought it was VFAT that had the patents that Microsoft was asserting, not FAT32. FAT32 has nothing new or novel in comparison to FAT16, whereas the techniques in VFAT (the short/long filenaming hybrid) at least is an interesting idea.

    25. Re:Bull by timeOday · · Score: 1

      One has to wonder if a DOJ-imposed breakup might not have been a gift to shareholders.

    26. Re:Bull by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you argue like that then no company in the world should spend $ on R&D because by the time R&D materializes then those running the company are out of there anyway.

  3. Always glad to see M$ making bad decisions. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In their defense, lots of research and development is done by startups these days, the successful ones are bought. What's the last thing to come out of M$ labs, and before you fall all over yourself saying "kinetic" there were several such devices offered by startups at the same time, they could have fired 18k years sooner.

    1. Re: Always glad to see M$ making bad decisions. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Metro (Modern) UI.

    2. Re:Always glad to see M$ making bad decisions. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which other devices? PrimeSense's sensors powered Kinect v1, were the primary choice in Google Research's computer vision work, and the company was later bought by Apple. All three of the biggest tech companies used their tech, which kinda indicates they were the best in the space. Leap Motion was the only other sensor that made significant headlines because tech-unsavvy journalists thought it was super-accurate, super-low-latency Kinect competitor, when in actuality, it was little more than a sausage detector with more limits (orientation, distance, motion) than it was worth.

  4. As a person in corporate research & developmen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    I would like to thank the broad computing research community which has taken the time to share its thoughts and concerns about the recent closure of our research lab in Silicon Valley.
    Translation: thanks, you guys are typical academic opinionated armchair quarterbacks...

    I share with all of you a strong belief in the value of fundamental research and its importance for the long-term viability of our company, our industry and our society, and want to reassure you of Microsoft’s commitment to fundamental research.
    Translation: The reason MS R&D was created was to do cheap R&D by passing on the hard work to Academia. And you guys bought it--an academic researcher being able to deliver directly to production....that's like being the next stanford's facebook or google.

    Unfortunately, no organization – governmental, industrial or academic – is immune to change and the technology business in particular is defined by rapid evolution.
    Translation: MS R&D partnering with academia promised so much in really unrealistic ideas, when it's all about execution. Hence we ran out of good will from our customers--you guys over promised. Look at Google X, they're heading in the same direction.

    Technology businesses need to constantly adapt in order to survive.
    Translation: Fundamental (aka academic) R&D gave us pipe dreams, stuff that only worked in controlled environments, un-manufacture-able. Businesses must adapt by churning out great products, not cool demos/ideas.

    In July, our new CEO, Satya Nadella, discussed how Microsoft would transform to be the productivity and platform company for a mobile-first, cloud-first world, and evolve its culture to be more nimble. This transformation included reducing our workforce by 18,000 jobs. Each organization within Microsoft, including Microsoft Research, is accountable for driving changes in culture and organization, and each has to participate in the job reductions.
    Translation: Fundamental/academic R&D sucked in the end. Obviously the community doesn't agree. Thanks guys.

  5. The wave of the near future by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    MS does not need to spend anything on R&D. They simply allow other companies to take the expense and the risk, then buy them out.

    Embrace, Extend, Extinguish, Profit.

    1. Re:The wave of the near future by Teresita · · Score: 2

      They simply allow other companies to take the expense and the risk, then buy them out.

      Or in the case of Doublespace/Drivespace, they let Stac Electronics do all the heavy lifting, then just walk all over their patents.

  6. I think a lot of the SVC people laid off... by tlambert · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I think a lot of the SVC people laid off were people working on Microsoft Products for Apple. Mountain View, at the facility South of the I-101/I-85 interchange, near Moffett Field, were there to do work on Mac OS X products. I you look at the Microsoft job postings, you'll see that almost everyone in APEX is a continuing engineer, and that there are a small number of Objective-C and iOS openings that all appear to be concentrated on front-ending Office 365 on Mac OS X and iPhone, iPod, and iPad, rather than native applications.

    I expect this is the non-announcement that Office 2014 for Apple products is going to be nothing more than a front-end wrapper for their subscription products. This somewhat makes sense, given that Apple has been pressuring them on productivity apps on their platforms, and that "good enough" is the enemy of "expensive". If you couple this with Mac OS X *never* having been a tier 1 platform for Office products (where's VB 5, VB.Net, Acces, etc. for Mac OS X?), it was never intended that Apple desktop systems be able to compete with Windows desktop systems in terms of being able to do the same vertical market development using ports from Windows vertical market development. It was an avoidance of cannibalizing the Windows market in that area.

    Obviously, I could be wrong, but when working at Apple, I visited the Office developers there several times to deal with OS and kernel related issues; the only place they seem to be willing to hire Objective-C people seems to be Redmond or Bellevue, and it appears to be for things like Skype development, not office; the APEX jobs appear to be remaining in Mountain View at present, and greatly scaled back.

  7. What sort of unethical weirdo... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    gets a PhD to work in industry and have their work patented?

  8. Research for what? by miffo.swe · · Score: 2

    Microsoft is run by marketing alone. Research has no place there as it will never be able to influence any decisions.

    --
    HTTP/1.1 400
    1. Re:Research for what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Microsoft is run by marketing alone.

      Anybody who's ever worked there will tell you that this statement is ridiculous.

  9. Microsoft Research isn't closed - just one lab by Aqualung812 · · Score: 2

    There are still 11 labs world-wide, and 5 of them are in the USA. http://research.microsoft.com/...

    I suspect Silicon Valley is just a VERY high-cost location, and I know I wouldn't work there without 3x what I make now working in the midwest.

    You can work remotely, you know...

    --
    Grammer Nazis - I mod you "troll" unless you actually add something on-topic. Yes, I know I have mispellings in my sig.
    1. Re:Microsoft Research isn't closed - just one lab by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a resident of SV, I wouldn't move to the midwest for 3x my salary. ;-)