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AT&T Locks Apple SIM Cards On New iPads
As reported by MacRumors, the unlocked, carrier-switchable SIM cards built into the newest iPads aren't necessarily so -- at least if you buy them from an AT&T store. Though the card comes from Apple with the ability to support (and be switched among with software, if a change is necessary) all major carriers, "AT&T is not supporting this interchangeability and is locking the SIM included with cellular models of the iPad Air 2 and Retina iPad mini 3 after it is used with an AT&T plan. ... AT&T appears to be the only participating carrier that is locking the Apple SIM to its network. T-Mobile's John Legere has indicated that T-Mobile's process does not lock a customer in to T-Mobile, which appears to be confirmed by Apple's support document, and Sprint's process also seems to leave the Apple SIM unlocked and able to be used with other carrier plans. Verizon, the fourth major carrier in the United States, did not opt to allow the Apple SIM to work with its network." The iPad itself can still be activated and used on other networks, but only after the installation of a new SIM.
Easy solution:
Don't use AT&T. Ever.
I was thinking about buying an AT&T model because Verizon is not participating. TMo here I come.
Seems like a non-story, don't most wireless providers require you to change the SIM when switching anyways?
I think that was the entire point of the Apple SIM. You could have one card, and go between carriers with a simple software switch. However, AT&T appears to be intentionally breaking that functionality to FORCE you to buy another Apple SIM if you want to switch. With T-Mobile and Sprint, you just pick which one you want. Tried Sprint, but T-Mo's coverage is better in your area? Just cancel the Sprint account and switch to your T-Mo account in the settings. But if you happen to pick AT&T at any point, that SIM can only EVER be used on AT&T, defeating the whole point of a multi-carrier SIM in the first place.
"So after all this, you make my case for me. To end this stalemate, you must die..."
I was going to an LTE iPad and go as needed on the cellular plan, now which carrier to not select.
Well, yes, but generally you buy the SIM through them and not through Apple.
Apparently with the new iPads one of the new features is that they come with "Apple SIMs" that instead of being a SIM provided by the cell provider are a SIM Apple provides. (Unless you're using it with Verizon, in which case you have to use a Verizon SIM. Except I thought Verizon and Sprint used CDMA which required something other than a SIM. Or maybe 4G LTE changes that. I haven't a clue how it works, other than for the longest time in the US if you wanted to use the same phone and change providers you could only do that between AT&T and T-Mobile and then even then you often couldn't because they didn't use the same bands.)
So, er, anyway. It's a story because it means that AT&T and Verizon are basically preventing one of the major new features on the iPad from working, which ultimately doesn't really matter because for the most part you can't just buy data a-la-cart in the US anyway so it's not like you're likely to be switching providers enough to make being able to keep the SIM useful.
You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
T-Mobile that is.
I had Verizon, before that AT&T. So far I've been happier with T-Mobile than any of them...
T-Mobile I think gives you a free 200mb/month no matter what, so if you use cell network lightly that can be fantastic.
If you do pay for a plan, T-Mobile has free international data. It's not LTE unless you pay more but 3G is fine for most needs.
It's only been a month so I may be in the honeymoon phase but the very fact there is a honeymoon phase instead of a gnawing fear in the pit of my stomach that I've attached myself to a monster speaks volumes about T-Mobile I think.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
apple most likely made this to make it easier to manufacture ipads and cut costs. not to make it easy to switch carriers. all the ipads are the same except for the software. being able to dynamically adjust inventory is a money saver and lessens risk of inventory having to be discounted. for apple and the carriers. i bet they have some internal procedure to transfer unsold ipads between carrier stores just in case, because of the software sims
All of the current LTE models are sim based by all providers. CDMA and GSM are both 3G technology.
It's not a phone, motard, and they're locking up stuff not bought through them.
Holy shit you're completely retarded.
So instead of AT&T screwing up the Apple provided sim card, users who want to try AT&T should request an AT&T sim card directly from AT&T and use that instead. Problem solved.
No. This is a terrible practice, it's anti-competitive and needs to be stopped. A customer should not have to justify his actions to leave, particularly when the reasons are usually blatantly obvious.
Is this even legal? It's not their SIM, it's yours. Surely they can't legally lock you out of your own hardware.
That's a nice sentiment. That will never be reality however. Whether it's convenient or not as long as you are not harassed while switching than a business has every right to try to sway you (within reason) and nothing you say or do will change that. The sprints and T-Mobiles of the world are only doing this because they are literally going bankrupt trying to get customers. If they were not so desperate they would not be so customer friendly.
How does that work when you're off the LTE network, though? LTE coverage may be generally "OK" where I live near a major city, but I know that my brother who uses Verizon frequently finds himself on whatever Verizon calls their CDMA data service when using data. (I think it's just "3G" but I don't remember.) Do you need a special CDMA card too or does it all use the same SIM card? I'm assuming it all uses the same SIM card? Or do the new iPads just not support CDMA at all?
I'm genuinely curious, I have no idea how the CDMA to LTE transition works. Not that it really matters to me since I'm currently on AT&T, but my family all uses Verizon and I have no clue what's going on with Verizon's transition to LTE.
You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
I thought Verizon and Sprint used CDMA which required something other than a SIM.
According to Wikipedia, CDMA2000 can use a CSIM (CDMA2000 subscriber identity module). But unlike GSM and its successors (UMTS, HSPA, and LTE), CDMA2000 makes use of a CSIM optional, and CDMA2000 with CSIM is more common in Asia than in North America, where Verizon and Sprint have traditionally programmed the subscriber identity directly into the handset. But a single UICC card can act as a removable user identity module for all three cellular flavors: SIM for GSM, CSIM for CDMA2000, and USIM for UMTS, HSPA, and LTE.
Tried Sprint, but T-Mo's coverage is better in your area? Just cancel the Sprint account and switch to your T-Mo account in the settings.
Because swapping a SIM card is such a laborious task.
Whether it's convenient or not as long as you are not harassed while switching than a business has every right to try to sway you (within reason) and nothing you say or do will change that.
Exactly what gives them the right to FUCK WITH MY EQUIPMENT AND DISABLE A KEY FEATURE???
They can if you sign ownership-equivalent rights to your SIM over to them when you begin service.
3G and under require CDMA radios for CDMA carriers. They have to be provisioned on the carriers network to work properly or they simply won't connect except for emergency calls. 4G and LTE variants all require SIM cards on all networks. T-Mo and AT&T are the only carriers (major anyway) that use SIM cards for GPRS,EDGE,3G, and 4G. I'm not sure if the new iPads support anything less than 4G though. I know Samsung has stopped supporting anything less than 3G on a few of their tablets (Note 10.1 2014 for example).
AT&T will unlock if you call and ask. They want they oppertunity to try and keep your business before unlocking. Last I checked that's good business to try and keep your customer. That being said if you don't like it go with one of the carriers with significantly less LTE coverage.
This isn't about unlocking the device. All iPads are and have always been unlocked. This is about AT&T's decision to disable using the multi-carrier Apple SIM card (new with this iteration of iPads) on any carrier besides AT&T once you use it once with AT&T. (Does Apple even sell the Apple SIM card separately? Maybe in store, but it's certainly not on their website as of now. Your best bet would be just to get an AT&T SIM card if you want to use them and save the Apple card for cooperating carriers.)
R.Mo
I absolutely agree with your point. If AT&T sees enough people leave them over this being the reason it will be changed quicker than you can type a reply to this conversation. However, both Verizon and AT&T clearly own the market share of subscribers and most likely won't be affected positively or negatively whether they choose to include or exclude this feature. This will be used as a marketing pitch for Sprint and T-Mobile as they are willing to do almost anything to woo new subscribers.
AT&T is just competing with Verizon to be a bigger asshole.
How does that work when you're off the LTE network, though
You have a CDMA radio in the phone as well. How else do you expect that it works?
Break up ATT and Verizon.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
I doubt they'll do it for free. It's uncompetitive and the FCC should step in (but won't)
I've got better things to do tonight than die.
This isn't about equipment purchased from AT&T, on or off contract, with an AT&T SIM, SIM-locked to AT&T's network. This is about equipment purchased from Apple, off contract, with an Apple SIM, not SIM-locked to any network. AT&T is locking that Apple SIM (not the device) to AT&T's network, forcing you to buy another Apple SIM if you wish to switch carriers, something no other carrier is doing. A SIM card, once locked to a carrier, can not be unlocked.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
Yes, in most cases, that's what happens. However, this article is about iPads bought from Apple, which AT&T has no right to lock.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
Why spend the $10 most carriers charge for a SIM if you don't have to?
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
But it IS reality with every other carrier mentioned above who doesn't do this shit.
1. Buy iPad Air 2 with Apple SIM.
2. Take it to AT&T, which then immediately locks the said SIM.
3. If you want to switch, then go buy another Apple SIM from Apple.
If AT&T wants to lock a SIM I purchased elsewhere, should AT&T pay me for the replacement SIM?
I know... dream on.
Has anyone asked Apple what they think of this? Maybe this isn't in their contract with Apple.
It's got to be an "Apple SIM" which probably means it's $599 for a small one that nobody wants and $899 for one that you can actually use.
You are welcome on my lawn.
It's my fucking SIM, you idiot, the carrier has no right to fuck with *MY* SIM.
T-Mobile I think gives you a free 200mb/month no matter what, so if you use cell network lightly that can be fantastic.
If you do pay for a plan, T-Mobile has free international data.
For all their flaunting of the term "Uncarrier", T-Mobile US is very much still in a carrier mindset.
Do you want to be a pay-go, no-contract customer? Well then you can't use the data you prepaid for on any cell tower not owned by T-Mo, nor can you pay them extra for domestic roaming-data packages ... those are privileges and reserved only for customers who've signed a contract.
WTF? I can't pay T-Mo extra money for the ability to use data in a town where they have no towers just because I haven't legally obligated myself to pay them a regular fee every month for a year or more?!? That's straight up Big Carrier BS right there.
Apple users who are used to lock-in now want to complain about lock-in?
It is good business to try and retain a customer. It is terrible behavior to hold someone's property ransom to force them to listen to your pitch.
Depending on how quickly word gets out, and the reaction, the second may not be a productive way of trying to achieve the first.
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
So... how are AT&T able to technically achieve this?
Did Apple screw up in some manner, that accidentally left a venue open for ATT to successfully be able to lock the SIM?
Is there a way Apple can fix this in a future revision, so the customer will be able to unlock their SIM, or ATT won't be able to lock it?
Ha, good one. The bet ones are always based on facts, after all. Except... wait a minute... No, it's just a regular form-factor SIM card that accepts signaling from the device to select which carrier it identifies with. Which, of course, means you can use a normal carrier SIM in it, as well. How do I know this? Verizon doesn't support the Apple SIM, but you can sure pop a Verizon LTE SIM in there and it'll work.
Dumbass.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
Maybe read my post again? That's exactly what I said.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
Well, if you switch you still have to pay the extra money to quit the plan early (those phones are not cheap and are subsidized through the monthly fee). The point of the Apple SIM as explained to me by some who want it, is for when they travel to other countries when they explain is can be inconvenient to pick up a sim card and take it to a clerk to pay for when you can just give the phone to the clerk instead (or presumably if the infrastructure is ever in place, get the code online).
Though if you buy an iphone outside of AT&T, can you switch to AT&T without them locking your personally bought-and-paid-for SIM card, or do they only do this on their own subsidized phones?
I know it's difficult to read the story. It's even more difficult to read the summary. Did you even read the title? ipad != iphone.
If AT&T believes it is entitled to lock a SIM that wasn't sold by it, and the FCC lackies refuse to intercede, then it seems reasonable to ask first and sue if necessary. It wouldn't be the first time that AT&T lost an antitrust lawsuit.
Of course it would be nice if the federal government would step in but as they weren't compelled by reason or justice when banks were selling toxic derivatives in the trillions, why would they protect us little consumers from Cingular (dba AT&T)?
No. The "Apple SIM" with the ultimate goal of getting rid of the exchangeable SIM is just a way to bring the CDMA-style restrictions of a carrier-side device-whitelist into the world of GSM/UMTS/LTE-devices.
I don't have a tablet that's connected to cellular, but if AT&T did this to me without me realizing, I'd go to their stores and complain until they either fixed the problem or called the police on me.
It's one thing to be evil, but this is the type of thing that makes me wish the cruel and unusual punishment restriction didn't exist in US law. Fucking bastards.
Ridiculous. Apple doesn't have to manufacture SIMs, and this COULD bring a variation on the European model of wireless device sales being separated from the purchase of services to the US market. But it's obvious that AT&T recognises this and won't go down without a fight.
Freedom of choice just isn't the American corporate mindset, and fairness rarely ever has been. As for the average consumer, tmost don't know how to shop around. Not that it's easy to evaluate the performance of a wkireless network or device. It's not like the FCC requires decent performance information be developed or published.
I'm not familiar with the concept of buying a sim. No really I'm legitimately curious not trying to be funny. I though sims were provided by carriers for their networks. I thought all this is free as part of any contract and that replacement sims are likewise free. I'm struggling with the outrage. Isn't the carrier specific sim the reason for all those phones on the market with more than one sim shot?
Apple uses your hatred of the network operators against you. In a world with network operators that people like, nobody would accept Apple's attempt to wedge itself between the customers and the service providers with a concept that is so ripe for exploiting this middle-man position. But in our world, where people have nothing but disdain for network operators, you can sell people anything that network operators might be opposed to, and hardly anybody will check if the consumer won't be worse off for it.
I was under the impression that those phones are used mostly by salespeople and other frequent travellers so they can use the SIM/account that's local to the place they're in currently, without fumbling about for the card(s).
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
A sim is not YOUR equipment. It is like a key to a rented apartment - the key is property of the landlord, and for good reason.
The real story here is that Apple unilaterally decided to redefine what a SIM does, breaking every carrier's security model, and some of the carriers went along with it, but AT&T stood their ground.
AT & T have no business locking anything I purchase. I buy a car, it's not locked by the dealership, I buy a Skil-saw and I don't have to call to change blades.
No , it's not a good business practice, it's not nice and it is intrusive, invasive and rude. It would be no different than getting married to a hottie, then finding her breeding rights belong to another guy and you can't even touch her cunt unless she gets a new one.
No, just piss on AT&T and their ilk.
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
Complain to Apple, they are giving AT&T the ability to do this in the first place.
If a company is disabling the functionality of a piece of hardware you have then they minimally need to re-enable the functionality.
Some new lawyer could cut their chops on this case I'm sure.
Seems foolhardy for AT&T to expose themselves this way.
that's bull.
I use T-Mo on a "bring your own device", no contract monthly billing plan.
i get 2gb of data with unlimited calls and texts for 100/mo. I can get 1gb for 50/mo if i so choose as well. You can cut that down to 200mb and pay some insanely small ammount (I think it was 10/mo?) and i have roamed quite heavily from my initial service area, all the way into other states, and have had no trouble using data on other carrier's towers.
granted, it's not alsways 4G LTE, and is often edge or something similarly nasty, but it's still data service, and I dont have a contract.
stop spreading the FUD.
What does AT&T do when they remotely lock the SIM that prevents me from being able to take that SIM to someone else and say "Here, use this," without getting "I'm sorry, we can't" as a reply?
Most US providers charge $5-10 for a SIM. They often waive it with the purchase of a new phone and, less commonly, with a new contract, but that doesn't mean they don't charge for them. That's beside the point, though; for T-Mobile, AT&T, or Sprint on the current-gen iPads, it's Apple SIM or bust, and you're buying that from Apple, not your carrier; the only carrier-specific SIMs that will work in the current iPads are for carriers not participating in the Apple SIM program, AFAIK. So yes, that AT&T would essentially brick the SIM for other carriers is outrageous.
Furthermore, buying SIMs is fairly common.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
Does anyone actually care about this? So you buy an iPad from AT&T and if you want to use it with T-Mobile, you need to pop in a T-Mobile SIM. Who cares? It's not like it costs money for a SIM when you sign up with a carrier, they will just give it to you. And how is this any different than an unlocked phone?
If you choose to rent hardware and software from Apple that's your lookout. If AT&T dicks with your rented SIM that's also your lookout, and your fault for choosing the worst mobile carrier in the USA. Can't see what the fuss is about. Anybody who pays for Apple stuff usually deserves what they get.
I agree with your last bit: anybody who pays for Apple stuff usually deserves what they get -- which is a pretty good product.
However, in this case, what they get and what they have after it touches AT&T are two different things. Sure, people should try to avoid using AT&T, but sometimes they're the only one with "coverage" in an area -- and if the only competitor is Verizon, well... Verizon doesn't support the unlocked SIM at all. AT&T agreed to play ball with Apple, and is now keeping every ball it catches.
I'll be interested to see what happens when AT&T Legal and Apple Legal clash over this.
AT & T have no business locking anything I purchase. I buy a car, it's not locked by the dealership, I buy a Skil-saw and I don't have to call to change blades.
No , it's not a good business practice, it's not nice and it is intrusive, invasive and rude. It would be no different than getting married to a hottie, then finding her breeding rights belong to another guy and you can't even touch her cunt unless she gets a new one.
No, just piss on AT&T and their ilk.
If you buy a car these days, the computer is indeed locked by the dealership, although the manufacturer has the keys. Independent mechanics have been up in arms over this for years -- they have to purchase the keys needed to tune the vehicles, even though they're running on a somewhat open system.
That doesn't make either a reasonable course of action though, even with the security arguments.
Forget users can kick AT&T today and thereafter.
AT&T reminds me of Bank of America . . . I wonder how they still have any customers.
Unless they decide not to. Or go out of business. Or you haven't paid them enough. Or any of 100 other things. Even if it was 100% their policy to unlock on request, they locked it without my consent or any ethical technical or business purpose, which is itself a problem.
I've only ever seen mentions of phones that went up to two SIM slots. I've been wondering if anyone would make a phone with more than two SIM slots. Then you could use the extra slots for things you own, such as a PGP key on a SIM. Somehow I suspect the carriers would dislike this even more...
I was thinking these Apple SIMs were a silly idea, since the carrier SIMs were so easy to get. Now that you suggest this though, ick! That sounds like a very plausible explanation for what the carriers are thinking.
What carriers charge for a SIM? I've never paid for a SIM in my life. They might charge online or from the machine at the airport, but if you go to the store in person, free SIM. At least I've only had to tell with Tmobile US and Tmobile UK (EE). I told T-mobile UK that I was only going to use their service for a week, and they still gave me a free SIM.
Most carriers charge. They usually waive it, but yes, the charge. You basically just said that, so......
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
Here's the facts, straight from the horse's mouth http://support.t-mobile.com/docs/DOC-7261
On demand data passes (aka domestic data roaming) are only "Available for plans with a monthly allotment of high-speed data."
While you're becoming educated, go learn the difference between "prepaid" plans (what you described) and "pay-go" plans (the only true no-commitment plans). Among other differences, pay-go plans never involve giving the provider authorization for recurrent monthly billing.
One of the revolutionary things Apple did when they introduced the iPad was require all partner providers to finally offer at least a data-only pay-go plan.
I'll have to say that AT&T has evolved into (or perhaps become stupider about getting caught) a pathological company--they have elaborately cynical lies that their tech/customer service drones foist upon their customers. Bad signal strength? "You live right next to the ocean, and our signal is the same basic frequency as the ocean, so it absorbs the signal instead of deflecting it like a solid object." Are they fucking HIGH?! Do they think that NO ONE knows anything about resonance, or the physics of sound? I can NOT wait until my contract expires. The only thing that they'll hear from me is penetrating silence--as I'll be swimming in the ocean with my Verizon phone on the beach!
Thats the difference between "buying" and "bought", the present tense would be "buy", which I do every now and then w/o dicking with a loan process.
You may not be able to buy a car outright many places, but sometimes you can make the downpayment, then pay the salesman the balance to "jump over a bucket" and he will "give" you the car. Just to be inside legality.
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
What, exactly, does Verizon do that is so dishonest and earns them so much hate?
I never said they were dishonest, just that I didn't like them. Remember, this is after I have been a customer for two years so I have a lot of experience...
The main reason is just that they charge a lot of fees. Fees for the ability to block a number, fees for this, fees for that - but the worst is truly outrageous data fees for international use, $20 for 200MB of data. And the REALLY bad part of that is, it's per country - if you go to Europe or on a cruise you may well be hopping between several countries, and it's super easy to rack up charges. My phone bill was fluctuating between $50-$100 more per pay period from the base.
T-Mobile so far, has a cheaper overall plan (expected since I brought in a device) but is also a more stable bill - month to month I can be far more sure of what I will be paying with T-Mobile.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I'm pretty sure that Verizon doesn't operate a GSM network so saying that they won't support the unlocked SIM seems like a red herring. Verizon is, so far as I know, CDMA all the way.
And now I read just a little further down and learned from BronsCon that Verizon offers a SIM-based LTE network.