Why CurrentC Will Beat Out Apple Pay

itwbennett writes Working closely with VISA, Apple solved many complex security issues making in-person payments safer than ever. But it's that close relationship with the credit card companies that may be Apple Pay's downfall. A competing solution called CurrentC has recently gained a lot of press as backers of the project moved to block NFC payments (Apple Pay, Google Wallet, etc.) at their retail terminals. The merchants designing or backing CurrentC reads like a greatest hits list of retail outfits and leading the way is the biggest of them all, Walmart. The retailers have joined together to create a platform that is independent of the credit card companies and their profit-robbing transaction fees. Hooking directly to your bank account rather than a credit or debit card, CurrentC will use good old ACH to transfer money from your account to the merchant's bank account at little to no cost.

Comments

Not a chance

[ThomasBHardy]

I wont be giving away access to my bank accounts. Sorry, not gonna happen.

And the next time they have a data breach?

That's just full of "Nope!"

Re:Not a chance

[cayenne8]

I wont be giving away access to my bank accounts. Sorry, not gonna happen.

Yep, this was my first thought myself!!

I try to generally pay for everyday things in meatspace with cash. Online, mostly with one CC.

I don't plan to use or store ANY CC or banking information on my phone...much less have it set up to directly access my bank account via this system.

Hell, I refuse to have a debit card, my ATM card is purely ATM. I don't want debit...at least with CC if it gets stolen, you don't lose cash out of your account.

Even in this day, with many debit cards, if it is stolen and used, the cash is out of your account UNTIL you can prove it wasn't you.

I've seen it happen recently to a friend, and it caused all sorts of problems, with not only having to wait for their money to be returned to their account, but also all the overdraft and bounced checks/auto payments that hit while they were waiting for their money to be given back to them.

I can foresee the same dangers happening with this or any other direct to bank account transaction.

Re:Not a chance

[Anonymous Coward]

It is very illegal for a merchant to store your credit card number

it is still very illegal for them to try to share those card numbers and what they purchased

Nope, it's just a voluntary step that merchants promise to abide by. There are no laws that enforce this, only merchant agreements and PCI compliance rules. For 90%+ of small businesses, they process so few transactions that the rules are all enforced by self reporting, and pinky swearing that they've been following the rules. Absolute worst case scenario for a merchant in violation is an optional fine from Visa, there's no risk of jailtime.

Re: Not a chance

[Gr8Apes]

Not only that, CC's aren't tied to your bank account, so your account(s) cannot be emptied. CC's have legal liability limits, and thus fraud or disputes do not directly affect your ability to pay say, your rent.

Re:Not a chance

[AK Marc]

Outside the US, account numbers are not secret. They allow deposits from many other ways. You give out you account number to everyone you meet (exaggeration), and they can do deposits, but not withdrawals. So piles of apps, sites, and others will let you send money from your account to anyone. Direct bank transfer takes the place of ACH for many uses, and debit (usually with a chip card) for all the retail ACH uses.

Re:Not a chance

[AK Marc]

The first wave of proposed chip+PIN cards in the US was slated to have magstripes as a fallback mechanism. The agreement between the retailer and the credit network would have placed all liability for fraudulent or reversed transactions on the party using outdated tech. Merchants did not like this,

That's the system today, so I don't see why the merchants would be so upset.

CurrentC is "wanted" because it pushes all liability onto the user, with none on the retailer or credit network (partly because there is no "credit network" in the CurrentC system). All systems with a credit network know that if they screw the user, the user will flee. So all the credit networks push as much risk as possible on the merchant, and accept the rest. $50 is the maximum on the user, and nearly all limit that to $0, so long as the user acts reasonably.

Re: Not a chance

[gumbi west]

I switched when I had a friend get their debit card stolen. She said the cops pointed out to her that if you only use CC, then while you're in the dispute process you have all your money whereas if you use a debit card, somebody else has your money while your in the dispute process. It's a big fucking deal when it's time to pay your rent/mortgage.

CurrentC does not solve for the Customer

[jeffy210]

Looking through CurrentC it does everything for Merchants, and nothing for customers.

- Requires to be tied to checking account or debit card
- Customer assumes 100% of liability for fraud (?!)
- Retailer can gather all purchase data on a customer
- Requires multistep actions including scanning QR codes

What benefit is in there for the customer? You know people are going to freak out around the liability part. I know the retailers want to reduce their transaction fee, but unless they throw some level of enticement (such as a discount) you probably won't see adoption of this. Conversely a discount will just nullify the transaction fee. I'm of the belief CurrentC is DOA.

Re:CurrentC does not solve for the Customer

[Anubis IV]

In addition to everything you said, there are the following reasons it's customer-hostile as well:

- CurrentC requires providing your Social Security Number and driver's license number
- CurrentC app collects any health data it can find on your phone
- CurrentC app tracks your location
- CurrentC stores all customer information in the cloud, rather than on the device
- CurrentC must be requested specifically by the customer, rather than being immediately available at checkout
- CurrentC's checkout varies between locations (between you and the cashier, it can vary who has the QR code and who does the scanning)

I'm with you: it's DOA. Moreover, it's downright creepy. The only incentive to use it would be if they offered a discount, but that would cut into the whole point of moving over to ACH from credit anyway, as you pointed out. Moreover, in many states it may be illegal to offer a discount, since there are laws forcing prices to remain the same, regardless of transaction method. They're phrased differently from state to state, so there may be ways around most of them, but it'd be one more hurdle in their way.

Re:CurrentC does not solve for the Customer

[Jason Levine]

As a victim of identity theft, I definitely WON'T be giving CurrentC my SSN, driver's license number, and direct access to my bank account. All that's left for identity theft to take place is to tie your date of birth in there somewhere. (Perhaps as proof that you're a certain age.)

I'm sure they'll get some suckers to use the system and will file some press released about how fantastic uptake has been (massaging the stats to make it look great), but unless they make some radical changes this will die a painful death. The only question is: What will happen first? Will they kill it or will it get hacked exposing all of these peoples' information and bank accounts to some malicious individuals?

Transactions fees are going down

[dkatana]

There is no reason to stop contactless transactions except greed! those retailers pay very low transactions fees (less than 0.2%). They just don't want NFC to be successful as mobile payments standard. In Europe there are five times more NFC contactless POS systems, especially because of EMV, and increasing rapidly.

Re:Why would I use it?

[Shatrat]

You understand why you get cash back though right? You get cash back because Visa/MC are charging so much extra they can afford kickbacks to the user.
By the same logic, CurrentC would be able to afford the same sort of rewards programs to get you to NOT use Visa/MC. Just because they haven't announced this doesn't mean they're not going to do it. If anything, I would expect more lucrative rewards programs because they're cutting out that middleman entirely.

Why CurrentC will fail miserably

[taustin]

1. One of the terms of service is exclusivity - if you use CurrentC, you can't use any other kind of mobile wallet system.

2. It is more like a debit card than a credit card - the money comes directly out of your bank account.

3. As such, it has none of the legal protections that a credit card has. With a debit card, pretty much all banks offer the same protection on debit cards anyway, because it's good for their business. CurrentC won't be run by banks, it will be run by some of the largest retailers in the country - Walmart, etc. None of the political pressures that keep banks on the straight and narrow apply.

4. CurrentC requires - cannot possibly work without - that you give the retailer all the information needed to take as much money as they choose directly from your bank account. These are the same retailers who have had hundreds of millions of credit card numbers stolen from their servers in the last couple of years. They have proven, conclusively, that they cannot be trusted.

5. CurrentC is about more than just transaction fees. It is also about turning the customer into a product - they require a lot of personal information that is completely irrelevant to the transaction - like health information (which they are also incapable of protecting) - to set up the account.

6. CurrentC is based on QR Codes, which is just stupid.

I'll go back to carrying cash before I use a mess like that. Or barter. Or growing my own food on a mountain top somewhere.

Re:Why would I use it?

[DarkOx]

The thing is though the swipe fee is the best thing that every happened to the consumer ( well anyone who can get a card anyway ).

By letting my CC company buy my loyalty payed out those fees I get them on every purchase from everywhere aggregated into a nice enough single system I can understand how works and maximize my advantage from.

The CurrentC proposal essential puts it back in the hands of retailers to run their own loyalty program. So RiteAide might give you 2% back on prescription drugs, and 1% on candy, and Wallmart will probably do something completely different and may not even use the same category system. Then you will end up with $5 that is only good a RiteAide at the end of the year and $10 good only at Wallmart rather than $15 I could get back in the form of a single gift cert for virtually anywhere I want. That SUCKS by comparison.

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[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:ApplePay vs CurrentC

[Andy Dodd]

Thing is, Apple Pay used existing standards for contactless EMV. Which is why every single terminal that accepted Apple Pay already accepted Google Wallet.

Re:I disagree

[MightyMartian]

Look asshole, quit fucking with /.'s advertising revenue by interjecting facts....

Signed,

CmdrTaco's Zombie

Re:Why would I use it?

[SeaFox]

It's a scam. Retailers should be allowed to refuse these cards, like they did when it was only Discover doing it. But now Visa does it and tells retailers they'll cut off all access unless they bend over.

Retailers can refuse them. There's a local pizza place near me that still does not accept any credit or debit cards, and charges a processing fee to use checks for payment. They've been in business for over 30 years and are doing fine. They would get more business from me if they did accept cards, though. I just don't carry cash that often.

Nobody's holding a gun to these retailers' heads and making them accept Visa. They want the additional business, they agree to the terms to get it.