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Why CurrentC Will Beat Out Apple Pay
itwbennett writes Working closely with VISA, Apple solved many complex security issues making in-person payments safer than ever. But it's that close relationship with the credit card companies that may be Apple Pay's downfall. A competing solution called CurrentC has recently gained a lot of press as backers of the project moved to block NFC payments (Apple Pay, Google Wallet, etc.) at their retail terminals. The merchants designing or backing CurrentC reads like a greatest hits list of retail outfits and leading the way is the biggest of them all, Walmart. The retailers have joined together to create a platform that is independent of the credit card companies and their profit-robbing transaction fees. Hooking directly to your bank account rather than a credit or debit card, CurrentC will use good old ACH to transfer money from your account to the merchant's bank account at little to no cost.
They will also forgo those profit-robbing security measures.
"To those who are overly cautious, everything is impossible. "
Seriously, I kinda want a buffer between my actual money and the companies I do business with. Someone who will take the hit while dispute is handled. This is why I use a credit card. I've toyed with google wallet and I actually like it as a easy tool to send money between friends. What I don't want to see is a world where to make payments I need to give my personal information to a dozen companies with incompatible standards.
The fact that they are blocking competition is enough to insure I won't be using their product.
The fine article misses one thing: What the customer wants. After at least three breaches, each with millions and millions of card details lost to hackers, nobody wants their data stored on a server that is handled by a retail company. They don't want to hand over all the information to the retail company. They don't want the stone age interface that the retail companies suggest.
And every customer is pissed of in a major way, because both Apple Pay and Google Wallet actually _worked_ until these idiots shut it off.
Apple has some pretty convincing material out describing how Apple Pay works, that can convince the geeks that it is actually safe. Google probably has the same thing, would be nice if someone could post a link. But these jokers? I wouldn't trust them in a million years.
The retailers can build CurrentC but they can't force customers to use it. The payment process sounds terrible; it'll be easier to just pull out your credit card and pay with that.
If I pay with my Visa card, I get cash back, and an extended warranty on my purchases. So far I haven't heard that CurrentC has any of these benefits.
Why would I use it?
Don't forget data mining in CurrentC - that is the main reason the stores want it so they can track you and your purchases. CurrentC's policy also includes disclosure of medical items (perhaps only purchases/drugs to start). With Apple Pay's tokens, it won't happen. As you said, the data breach potential is huge for them too.
Who do you trust? The merchants who want to use you as the product or someone who sells you the product.
Agreed, CurrentC seems to offer alot to retailers but virtually nothing to the consumer. Hell, from a consumer standpoint I'd almost rather stick with the status quo.
Right now I have intermediary who gives my a ~15-30 day float on all my purchases for free. My own assets (bank account) is never exposed. I have dispute process that is in place and affords me strong legal protections. Finally on top of everything else I get rewards and rebates.
So why would I essentially want to go to a debit card like system. A credit card is virtually always better for anyone who can get one. With App and Google's solution I get to retain everything that is good about the old CC system and get improved security which probably means few hassles in the end. Currency I am giving up perks and contractual assurances in exchange for better security around the transaction but much more exposure of my own assets and giving up the perks (or having to keep up with each and every chains specific gimmicks). No - Thank -you
Hopefully consumers will reject this.
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Apple Pay became the biggest wireless payment solution in just 72 hours. And it doesn't involve the most convoluted QR code scanning scheme on the planet to work. And the 50 other things other people have mentioned...
So what makes the backers of CurrentC think that Apple and Google will allow a CurrentC app in either of their respective app stores after their methods were blocked?
And every customer is pissed of in a major way, because both Apple Pay and Google Wallet actually _worked_ until these idiots shut it off.
Pissed might be too strong a word but I have a Walgreens right down the street from the CVS and Rite-Aid. Only one supports Apple Pay so guess which one I'm going to use if I want to use Apple Pay? (or Google's alternatives) I'm certainly not going to do business with someone who makes my life less convenient. This CurrentC "solution" is all benefit to the merchant and none to me. I can't see a single redeeming benefit to me. Less convenient, more risk and seemingly limited liability protection? No thanks.
Apple has some pretty convincing material out describing how Apple Pay works, that can convince the geeks that it is actually safe. Google probably has the same thing, would be nice if someone could post a link. But these jokers? I wouldn't trust them in a million years.
Dead on. Retailers have clearly shown they cannot be trusted to keep customer data secure. It's bad enough with a credit card. There is no way in hell I'm giving any major retailer direct (ACH) access to my bank account. They must be doing some heavy drugs if they think I am dumb enough to do that.
You'd be well advised to trust neither(both credit cards and banks have been playing with ways to 'monetize' their information about your buying habits); but it is true that basically 100% of 'CurrentC' is designed as it is to solve a merchant's problem, not a customer's problem.
Some of this is good: I don't directly see the bite the credit card guys take; but that money doesn't spring into being by magic, it ends up in the prices I pay sooner or later.
Some of this is substandard-but-fixable: (the current state of the 'app'/UI/etc. is a bit of a clusterfuck because it was farmed out by a bunch of companies with core expertise in putting rectangular items with price tags on shelves); but those merchants would obviously have nothing against it being better.
The trouble is the stuff that is bad-by-design: the fact that it's even more expansively invasive than the existing 'loyalty card' schemes, and that it sidesteps most security arrangements to reduce cost, are core elements of the design.
It's post like this that show how valuable it can be to have a comments section attached to a story.
Thanks !
I don't want to give you nightmares, but it is horrifying how little security there is on ACH transactions. The whole system relies on the ability to undo transactions to discourage fraud. All anyone needs is the routing and account numbers that are helpfully printed on your checks.
This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
You know, there's a solution for that. Some forms even work when your electronics are dead.
No, it's not for free. Trust me, you are paying for it in the form of increased prices.
Yes of course, but tell me with a straight face that wide CurrentC adoption means lowered prices from the retailer...
Didn't think so.
So why SHOULDN'T you prefer to get the benefits of using a CC if you are going to be paying the same exact amount for something anyway?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
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While not perfect, Apple Pay is the closest thing to that. Only you know what you bought, and only you and your CC company know how much it was. Nobody gets to handle (or even look at) your credit card, And your fingerprint secures your "wallet" (phone).
Exactly, at least with Credit/Debit cards you can report your card lost/stolen and almost instantly your described issue would have been resolved. I can see a merchant having fine print saying something like "Use of CurrentC consents automatic withdraws for XYZ service at $9.99 monthly".
It is not just security which is an issue but privacy as well. Instead of minimal personal details which are not shared between retailers CurrentC will give them access to far more information about myself and my purchase patterns across multiple retailers. I much prefer a third party system since this at least limits the information each individual retailer has.
Yeah here in Canada, 2 week hold minimum on US checks.
CurrentC is dead on arrival. It doesn't allow foreigners to use it, therefor it's useless and will fail.
Foreigners are going to want to use the more secure NFC or Chip+pin, of which American POS systems have no support for chip+pin, leaving only NFC.
Is this 1852? Isn't technology supposed to be eliminating ancient, slow, outdated practices?
But in point of fact, yes, I did. And because of that, EVENTUALLY, the issue was resolved and I got my money back. I would much rather have used a CC, it's a lot easier to kill a transaction there.
Apple Pay provides a new unique transaction number with each purchase. No credit card information is provided. This is to avoid being able to use information from a transaction for a second purchase. Big for security. Not so much for correlating transactions with a user.
Brought to you by: "Al"toids - the curiously weird mint.
And do you really think the answer you get from said register-operator is dependent on you spending cash instead of credit? Retailers like to complain about the cost of taking credit cards, but really their sales volume is greatly increased by them. If that weren't the case, they wouldn't take them.
Yeah, and try to get your bank to reverse a fraudulent ACH charge.
I read the internet for the articles.
Here's a better Reason it will fail:
Dear (CurrentC Developer)
Thank you for Submitting CurrentC to the App Store. We've Reviewed the Application and we have chosen not to publish this application. As you know, Apple reserves the right, in it's sole discretion, to reject an application for any reason.
Regards
Iphone Developer Program.
Apple never Forgets or Forgives.
In Soviet Russia, Trojan exploits YOU!
Do the credit card companies hate that you pay your balance in full each month?
You (and I, since I do the same) are the ultimate easy money. The Visa/MC brands make money off the margin they get from each purchase and the banks make interest (and some margin), but the banks also collect interest. They charge a high interest rate because of the risk that you might default. You are very low risk and churn a lot of money through their fee-extracting process that they would not get if you paid cash.
Therefore, they still like you, a lot. Now, the people who always pay cash or use a debit card, those they hate (or more likely just ignore).
first off, the protections for debit cards are much weaker than for a credit card. see http://www.bbb.org/blog/2013/11/do-debit-cards-and-credit-cards-hav-the-same-protection/
second, as someone below points out, with a debit card you have to maintain a constant float. not with a CC.
the CC is simple. charge everything. pay it off at end of month. very, very simple.
debit cards are a poor idea.
Apple Pay registers the card pretty fast, but not with BofA, you can't use their App to authenticate the card, you have to call in (at least you did when I registered my Credit and Debit cards. Capital One allows you to sign into the app and it instructs Apple Pay to go ahead.
/sarcasm
On the subject of "who will win", I think that the easiest payment options with the most security and largest spending consumer base will win. Historically, thats users who use Apple. QR codes and Bank ACH transfers lack two of the three things - security and ease. They also miss the boat on a big number of other ancillary benefits Apple Pay has going for it:
1. Apple Pay can be used online.
2. There is no massive treasure trove of data for hackers to steal.
3. You can not ACH from a credit card. Guess where most of the retailers get their money from? Hint: Its not people's bank accounts, those are used to pay off credit cards.
4. If CurrentC participating retailers block Apple Pay (which is really to block NFC transactions), it stands to reason that Apple may block any CurrentC applications from their App Store. They could always point and say "In response to...".
Apple Pay will end up being just another NFC service, but NFC will ring the winner. What is Walmart / Best Buy / CVS going to do? Displace Visa/MC in the hundreds of countries that are already in? How many Visa terminals are there? Right.
I suppose they have all the legal work figured out as well, and don't mind bankrupting themselves in the process.