Slashdot Mirror
Is the Outrage Over the FBI's Seattle Times Tactics a Knee-Jerk Reaction?
reifman writes The Internet's been abuzz the past 48 hours about reports the FBI distributed malware via a fake Seattle Times news website. What the agency actually did is more of an example of smart, precise law enforcement tactics. Is the outrage online an indictment of Twitter's tendency towards uninformed, knee-jerk reactions? In this age of unwarranted, unconstitutional blanket data collection by the NSA, the FBI's tactics from 2007 seem refreshing for their precision.
Whoever thinks this is remotely a good thing needs to be beaten with a lead pipe. Not only is it clearly illegal, it's also a serious breach of trust.
Yes, it's a knee-jerk reaction. However, our government agencies have done this to themselves. Most of the outrage is probably coming from people who saw "FBI" and "website" in the same sentence and just assumed they did something bad. I can't say I really blame them all that much.
what is the point of using the Web?
Porn?
Creationist Textbook Stickers Declared Unconstitutional by CowboyNeal
Please, cite the violated law. Thank you.
Trust between which parties? The fake was sent to only one person — the suspect, who then became a convict. The suspect knows very well now, that it was a fake — so he continues to trust the actual Seattle Times as much as he did before.
Also, we all know, that it is perfectly legal for police to lie — except, of course, under oath. So, which trust are you talking about?
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
If they did not have a warrant, then it is an illegal invasion of privacy.
They electronically entered his computer and that is no different than entering his home. The fact that he had to click on it is meaningless. The creation of the malware would be illegal, without the warrant.
Now, the police may not be smart enough (or ethical enough) to have asked for the warrant, but that is what is clearly needed.
excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
There was no entrapment. The person did a bomb threat, all they were doing was locating him.
When you cant win, ad hominem.
From TFA:
If there is a slashdotter, who — from reading the above "description" — does not realize, that there was no "malware" installed on the doofus' computer and the suspect's IP was obtained simply from the FBI's web-server log, ought to close his account (and change his name)...
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
I'm having a hard time being outraged by a guy dumb enough to click a seattletirnes link on his myspace account.
There are real things to be outraged over, like the time the government used a MITM attack at the ISP to serve malware on the real slashdot site.
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
The double standards between law enforcement and the public are exactly the opposite of what they should be. As a trusted public official (with years of training dollars poured into them) they should be held to a higher standard, and face worse penalties for breaking the law than the general public. Sadly, our failing state is more intent on preserving power than protecting justice, truth, and the public.
Though I agree with you in general, we are yet to find an actual law, that the FBI have broken dealing with this case... All of the accusers so far have been unable to offer a citation.
There are a number of problems with our law enforcement, but that's not the topic here.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
The second article has the information I was looking for. The MySpace page itself was anonymous, and was bragging about making the bomb threats. The direct email lead to the owner of the page.
...because over there someone is doing something obviously much worse! That's how it works, right?
Don't just stand there, get that other dog!
Sounds like you slept through the primaries :-)
Sorry, man, those guys are only winning because people voted for them.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
From the article: "Every effort we made in this investigation had the goal of..."
Their whole rationale is nothing more than "the end justifies the means."
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
Sorry, man, those guys are only winning because sheeple voted for them.
FTFY
A man who wants nothing is invincible
No fraud took place. Hoax, perhaps, but not fraud...
Keep trying...
So first you demand that people cite actual laws, and you refuse to accept things like "copyright infringement", "slander of title", or "defamation of character".
And then when someone cites chapter and verse of the law you reply with a wikipedia link saying it isn't correct.
No, for the law cited above it was fraud. The definition in that chapter is clear: "For the purposes of this chapter, the term “scheme or artifice to defraud” includes a scheme or artifice to deprive another of the intangible right of honest services." They were expecting the honest service of the specific newspaper. Instead they received a different service, an intentionally deceptive site that transmits something called a "computer contaminant" in the law. Chapter 63 (criminal fraud) doesn't have any of the now-common exceptions "except for law enforcement as part of an investigation". Officers can commit quite a lot of what would normally be crimes when they get court approval, but fraud is not on that list.
Their malware is covered under at least one of the variations in the state law, RCW 9A.52.110, 120, and 130. Since the government may argue it wasn't done with the intent to commit another crime (since they were intending to enforce laws but accidentally committed crimes in the process) then 110 may be out, but 120 and 130 both apply.
For copyright, you can pick quite a few different laws under title 17. Several of the exclusive rights in 106 were violated, as were 113. Their designs were protected so 1301. You can pick and choose quite a few more under Copyright as well, with a notable absence of court-authorized police action exemption.
For trademarks the newspapers have certainly trademarked their logos, names, and probably a few other distinctive elements.15 USC 1114 seems to have that covered quite thoroughly, including penalties against DNS hijacking. And thanks to 15 USC 122, they cannot claim immunity for that one.
Defamation is pretty strong since their use injures the newspaper's reputation. People will now pause and think "why should I go there since the government hijacks them"? While there is the statute, it is now the court's test that qualifies it. The four-prong test by the court is, first, a false element purported to be fact (in this case, they communicated that the false website was true), second that it was published (clearly the fact was published), third, actual fault on the person making the statement amounting to at least negligence (in fact, it amounts to the level of fraud, as covered above), and fourth, some harm to the subject of the statement (which can be shown as a harm to trust and harm to their stock). Again, there is no "official government action immunity" to commit fraud thanks to 42 USC 1983. Now if they had limited it to the very specific individuals under investigation this one might not apply as a legal intercept, but since they chose to throw a broad net and infected thousands, causing a huge impact to their brand the single authorized intercept exemption doesn't apply.
I'm sure there are many more, but while some laws make exception for court-authorized police action, these specific laws do not.
//TODO: Think of witty sig statement
The citation requested must not only refer to actual law, but the referenced law must be applicable. Fraud is not — in my opinion.
No, I don't see, how the "victim" was deprived of anything, tangible or not. He could still go to the real seattletimes.com, nothing was taken away from him, nor was tricked into performing services. The law you are offering protects merchants (purveyors of tangible goods) and service providers (intangibles) against, essentially, non-payments.
Under your reading, most April 1st jokes would be "wire fraud"...
Finally, the law is limited to interstate communications, which probably did not occur. But that — had it been my only rebuttal — would've been weaseling out on my part.
What malware? They sent him a link, which he clicked, thus revealing his IP-address...
False. Go back to law school. The 15 USC 1114 starts with "... use in commerce ...". The FBI did not engage in any commerce...
There is no law named "defamation" — you know, what "citation" means, you've offered quite a few already (even though none apply). Why did you change to a generic legal term again?
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
If the Feds hacked the perps computer, then how can we be sure they didn't install fake evidence on the said computer?
I've posted a summary of common questions from this piece here: http://jeffreifman.com/2014/10...