Slashdot Mirror
Americans Rejoice At Lower Gas Prices
HughPickens.com writes Drivers across America are rejoicing at falling gasoline prices as pumps across the country dip below $3 a gallon. According to Sharon E. Burke while it's nice to get the break at the gas pump and the economic benefits of an energy boom at home, the national security price of oil remains high and the United States should be doing everything it can to diversify global energy suppliers. Ultimately, the only way to solve our long term energy problem is to make a sustained, long-term investment in the alternatives to petroleum. But October saw a 52 percent jump in Jeep SUV sales and a 36 percent rise in Ram trucks while some hybrid and electric vehicle sales fell at the same time. "This is like putting a Big Mac in front of people who need to diet or watch their cholesterol," says Anthony Perl. "Some people might have the willpower to stick with their program, and some people will wait until their first heart attack before committing to a diet—but if we do that at a planetary scale it will be pretty traumatic."
Nicholas St. Fleur writes at The Atlantic that low oil prices may also undermine the message from the UN's climate panel. The price drop comes after the UN declared earlier this week that fossil fuel emissions must drop to zero by the end of the century in order to keep global temperatures in check. "I don't think people will see the urgency of dealing with fossil fuels today," says Perl. Falling oil prices may also deter businesses from switching to energy-saving technology, as a 2006 study in the Energy Journal suggested. Saving several pennies at the pump, Perl says, may tempt Americans away from actions that can lead to a sustainable, post-carbon future.
Nicholas St. Fleur writes at The Atlantic that low oil prices may also undermine the message from the UN's climate panel. The price drop comes after the UN declared earlier this week that fossil fuel emissions must drop to zero by the end of the century in order to keep global temperatures in check. "I don't think people will see the urgency of dealing with fossil fuels today," says Perl. Falling oil prices may also deter businesses from switching to energy-saving technology, as a 2006 study in the Energy Journal suggested. Saving several pennies at the pump, Perl says, may tempt Americans away from actions that can lead to a sustainable, post-carbon future.
The jeep stats are way out to lunch and have nothing to do with low price of gas. Jeep has been the start of FCA for quite some time now, not just recently.
I appreciate the efforts of the oil and gas industry to provide more oil and gas. I'm sure lower fuel prices make economic life a little better for the average American.
The country has gotten a bail-out curtesy of the oil companies.
But is there any doubt that Americans will squander this opportunity like all the others?
"This is like putting a Big Mac in front of people who need to diet or watch their cholesterol," says Anthony Perl. "Some people might have the willpower to stick with their program, and some people will wait until their first heart attack before committing to a diet—but if we do that at a planetary scale it will be pretty traumatic."
Uh...unable to control their "willpower" when buying a car? We now blame Jeeps and SUVs for this horrible affliction? The additional $10 - $15K you'll spend on a larger offroad capable vehicle isn't enough of a deterrent? Fucking seriously? Do you people also "buy" your cars at the casino?
Willpower in car buying...whatever the hell that shit is supposed to mean. I assume that during the next fuel spike we'll see insurance companies start accepting claims for this horrible "disease" like we did with alcohol, right? I mean, an addiction to large overpriced SUVs that never touch dirt or mud is clearly an addiction spiraling out of control that we should probably earmark billions in taxpayer money. After all, someone should think of the children, especially while the oil sheiks take a personal jet to go get their Big Mac...
I miss the good ole' days when Slashdot was about technology, not navel-gazing bullshit about American politics and policy. :(
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
That's about 2/5 what we pay over here (in the UK) if I've got my conversions right.
So much for the idea of "making hay while the sun shines" /s
Perhaps all the morons buying hummers and F-150s need reminding that the people selling us all this cheap oil are NOT our friends, and are sure as hell not doing it out of the kindness of their hearts. The Saudis are bottoming-out the price of oil to punish marginal north American oil producers, and the Russians, not because they want to give Joe Sixpack a break.
I'd like to see us putting in punishingly-high tariffs in place against Muslim and Russian oil. More tax revenue to tackle deficits, pressure people to switch to alternatives, help shale oil producers, AND punish our enemies. Win-win-win-win situation.
You people really think this is a coincidence, or about 'supply and demand'? How many times you gonna buy that bridge?
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
What we need is a $7/gallon fuel tax. That would fully fund the highway departments and vastly encourage fuel efficiency and conservation. Part of that could go to promoting research and installation of wind, hydro and solar.
We also need a mileage tax and it needs to apply not just to all cars using the roads (electric, gas, diesel, etc) but also to airplane travel on a per ticket basis with the goal of discouraging so much wasteful air travel.
... if Canada has taught me anything, it'll be back to where it was by Wednesday. Low gas prices are nothing more than a scam by the gas station retailers to get people to buy gas and use the mini-mart.
Buck Feta. You know what to do.
for a country that has a pathological hate for cyclists, and who love to burn gas and blow hot fumes more than anything.
The middle east has the lowest overhead for oil production. If they decide to bottom out prices the wells in the US get capped again.
Recently I tried the BBC Fuel Price Calculator, which for where I am at $2.55/Gallon indicates that the only place I can get gas cheaper is either Nigeria or Venezuela.
I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
Where petrol costs ~£4.60 per US gallon =~ $7.30. About 60% of that price is tax, take away that tax you get about $3.
I do not like expensive petrol, but I do realise that we need to cut the amount of carbon based energy that we use - climate change might not affect me, but it will my kids.
It's a seller's market.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
At least this part is still the "good ol slashdot" - misleading shitty statistics straight from the crappy press.
Where is the 52% bump?
Paying attention to Jeep and Ram sales doesn't really say a whole lot. Jeep has the largest number of smaller - yet non-toy - SUVs of any manufacturer right now; some of the other manufacturers have been reducing their line-ups. Similarly while the Ram trucks haven't changed much in the past decade the other manufacturers are changing their trucks which shifts demand around.
You need to look at industry-wide sales stats to have a sense of what the sales numbers are doing. You need to also look at it against annual averages, as a sales uptick in the fall is not unusual when businesses are looking to finish their fiscal years.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
Maybe in California. We're a little less exuberant on the East coast.
There will always be some other country with oil to invade as and when we burn through ours. god of God to give us a manifest destiny to use all the oil but Inconvenient of him to put in other locations.
"This is like putting a Big Mac in front of people who need to diet or watch their cholesterol," says Anthony Perl.
Should Big Macs cost more to dissuade their use? What about the people who couldn't afford better than a Big Mac? Switching away from the analogy: inexpensive energy is the biggest benefit to poorer members of society. It means cheaper food, cheaper heating/cooling, cheaper transportation. When someone says "make energy source X cost more than energy Y because Y needs a chance to succeed", they're not thinking about all the costs associated with the rise in energy costs.
According to most economists people are going to stop driving and wait for gas prices to get even cheaper.
I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
What the article fails to address is that the Saudis have flooded the market with cheap oil that they can make money on at 30 dollars a barrel while tar sands require about 93 dollars a barrel and fraccing requires about 83 dollars a barrel to remain viable. These groups have already cut back and started layoffs.
> Perhaps all the morons buying hummers and F-150s
Wven the four-door SuperCab version of the F-150 gets real- world 23.5 in road tests. Do you have a more efficient way to haul things, or are you spouting off without having any idea what you're talking about?
You can base your opinions on facts, or you can base them on what a Comedy Central comedian tells you to think. Your choice.
Pickens quotes Anthony Perl: "I don't think people will see the urgency of dealing with fossil fuels today." Like you or me voting with our ever so socially responsible wallets has a whit to do with pricing or policy in a totally rigged financial and political system.
Long story short, U.S. production has been increased by the usual suspects to shore up the dollar and paper over the cracks in the imperial hegemony. At least in an operational sense, this is a more immediate "national" security consideration that outweighs the longer term price of reliance on fossil fuels. Yes, this is of course a junkie's perspective, or at least dope dealer's one, but then they are that, too, aren't they? However, it is not within we the sheeple's power to override the addiction, either, not from the consumer level directly. So all your NPR hand-wringing does nothing but raise the general level of anxiety, which I sometimes wonder is not the point.
I'll pass for now on the tendency of the "socially responsible" to appear all too eager to exclude even clean nuclear options, or extraplanetary solar power, from the list of acceptable alternatives, or what the motives there might be.
1) The Jevons paradox comes to mind.
2) I still believe population is generally the key factor. Although it will never happen, without population control the hole in the bottom of the energy bucket will just keep getting wider and wider.
Every time you fill your gas, please write a check for twice as much and make it payable to the U.S. Treasury. Until you are willing to put your money where your mouth is, shut up.
It coincides with the event of a major country, that is almost completely dependent on oil exports for its economy, invading part of Europe.
This may or may not be a coincidence. At any rate, this is very bad news for the Russian economy. It remains to be seen if Putin can generate a strong enough RDF to keep the Russian people in line with his foreign policy.
Initially I applauded to US mandating manufacturers must meet fleet average mileage or face penalties. My opinion was that yes, it would make cars marginally more expensive and would move us toward energy independence. Well, I was wrong.
Drilling end up moving us toward energy independence, all gains we had in fuel economy (not an insubstantial amount) are dwarfed by increase in oil and gas production. At the same time, cars did not end up more expensive. Instead manufacturers made a decision to compromise reliability. Questionable technologies like CVT and direct injection, and mis-application of turbocharging made modern cars significantly less reliable than what was produced just 10 years ago. So we end up with marginal fuel economy savings and major energy loss due to additional manufacturing and recycling of cars that no longer last as long.
Something people forget.. SNOW - the number one reason people buy Jeeps and trucks in fall is to prepare for winter snow and ice. Has been this way since I was a kid.
4x4 Jeeps are generally seen everywhere in winter where I live, and Ram trucks generally are used as cheap snow plow trucks for small mom/pop mini self start companies.
Also both vehicles with tow packages can be used to haul a trailer full of snow machines / snow blowers too.
Soo perhaps less looking for quick reason, and more look to historical buying patterns.
MSNBC shills like Rachel Maddow and Chris Hayes were slathering for $10 a gallon gas 2 years ago. They were hoping it would end gasoline consumption in the US and lead to a new golden era of Stalinist Obamaism
It's good to see and a definite short term benefit will be realized. Lord knows it cuts down on our commute cost. I think one thing that would need to be addressed is the absolute need for most families in rural areas to have more than 1 vehicle.
I live in small-town Minnesota and I don't know any family that only has 1 vehicle. I think the only way we could do this is to really push a paradigm shift to where companies push more for moving their work-force home where possible. This has been done somewhat, but, we see many companies moving their workforce back to the office too. Frankly, I feel office-work is economically a bad choice, ecologically irresponsible, & doesn't foster work-life balance.
Granted, this won't be a home-run as far as reduction... but, every bit helps!
Your point is certainly correct. Almost everything you buy, from food to medicine, to clothing is carried in trucks, so high gas taxes increase the cost of all goods. A minor nitpick:
> What about the people who couldn't afford better than a Big Mac?
A Big Mac costs $4 and weighs half a pound, so it's $8 per pound. Fruits and vegetables run about $1 per pound. Junk food is expensive, so the oft-expressed claim that Americans eat junk because they can't afford nutritious food is silly. Our neighbors to the south, in Mexico, spend $1 / day for more nutritious food that many of us spend $10 / day on. Many healthy foods are less than 50 cents per pound, including rice, beans, and bananas. I just spent 99 cents on a loaf of whole wheat bread. A single Hershey bar or orser of fries would cost more.
The entire point of the article is that lower gas prices are going to put the breaks on a massive energy tech boom. To coin another /. meme, rtfs (read the _fine_ summary) :P
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Yey another shit article that is not "News for nerds"
our entire society is based on cheap gas. If you could put the tax money into public transportation and housing for the middle class and poor that'd be one thing. But you might find it easier to give everyone magic zero-emissions flying carpets than that. The public health benefits will be immediately lost when we all ratchet up our work weeks to 80 to pay for gas.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
I bought a Jeep Patriot three years ago after selling my 10 year old sedan and three huge selling points for me where:
1) the new design of the Jeep line-up
2) the improved gas mileage from my sedan
3) the increased cargo capacity
Not only do many of the Jeeps have good gas mileage, they also have the new Cherokee out right now. The statistics in the summary seem cherry picked for the story and make it looks like people are choosing vehicles that get 10 miles per gallon.
I have several relatives in construction that have just this past year found steady work and upgraded their work trucks to Rams, again because the Rams get better mileage from their existing trucks.
The premises are completely flawed.
Yes, it's true. We are currently producing more oil than Saudi Arabia! But we are far from being independent.
We need to do several things to be truly energy independent:
1. Set standards on gasoline, there are way too many formulas that vary state to state
2. Determine how many refineries we need (haven't built any new refineries for 30+ years).
3. Determine the best locations for the refineries (logistics of incoming raw crude and outgoing fuels)
4. Free up government land for oil drilling and fracking
5. Build pipelines to transport oil cheaply (XL Pipeline needs to happen, Canada is a huge ally and trust worthy)
6. Stop the Greens agenda, the Caribou won't be bothered by oil drilling in Alaska, that's just silly (saw video, hundreds of square miles of nothing but tundra)
6a. Hey, Caribou tastes real good and it's fully of Omega 3's and low in fat. Setup a nomadic ranch herding permit system and let's start selling MacBou Burgers!
7. Oil and Energy Independence needs to be considered a matter of National Security and as such should trump saving the Spotted Squirrel or any other endangered species that really wouldn't be impacted in reality!
There is no reason we shouldn't be paying $1.25 per gallon for gasoline. Don't give me that electric car bullshit either. You're charging you car using energy from coal so you ain't doing any favors using a toy battery car. Also those batteries are bad for the environment and will have to be recycled properly and that's expensive. Build more nuclear power plants. Wind and Solar don't work, at least not at the scale we really need not to mention they both kill birds! We have lots and lots of oil and coal and natural gas resources. More than we ever thought we had years ago. There are even more resources under the polar caps. There is no shortage and there won't be for hundreds of years. By then we should have figured out fusion and then the problems are truly solved.
So people make long term purchase decisions (like a new car) based on short term metrics (the price of gas right now.) No one ever thinks that maybe the price of gas will go back up before they are finished paying off the car? It is almost like fossil fuels are a finite resource and that gas prices may go up and and down in the short term but will always keep going up in the long term unless or until we find some other way to meet our energy needs. Sometimes may faith in humanity tends to waiver. OTOH if you want a fuel efficient car now would be the time to get it. I promise the price of gas will go back up before you are finished paying it off. I would wait until gas prices go back up to get that gas guzzler though.
If by "flooded" you mean "failed to artificially restrict" then, yes. It's interesting in that the oil producing nations have, at times, been able to collectively meter their output to keep the money flowing in. Of course, at $100 a bbl there's no need to cut back, and several states are strapped for cash so they're less interested in putting the screws to the non-oil producing nations as they are putting cash in their pockets, rockets in their launchers, and food on the table. As a result, the market is floating as it would in a normal competitive marketplace.
Actually, if the US really wanted lower gas prices all the congress would have to do is forbid the export of oil products (or tax it at a significantly high rate), keeping the domestic supply here. The US is the world's largest exporter of refined oil products (diesel and gasoline chief among them) - we pay high prices at the pump because we ship so much to other countries, who are willing to pay for it.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
You're forgetting to factor in the time spent shopping for those groceries, then cooking and optionally learning to cook to get something even mildly similar to a big mac.
Also, a lot of people, myself included, find it pointless to cook only for themselves.
To those who want a standing army of over 4 million active service and support staff rather than a domestic defense force, please get out your checkbooks and send your portion of the 1.2 Trillion Dollars we spend on the military every year. I, personally, think we should be able to defend the 4M sq miles of land we have with the same money that Russia spends on its 7M square miles. And that means those few who want all that extra military need to cough up the 90% of that 1.2 Trillion that we're over spending.
When that happens, I'll have the money chip in a few extra bucks a gallon at the pump for better roads, bridges, public transportation subsidies, and the like.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
Wake me up when it hits $1.299
...whether you notice changes in the price of gasoline without being notified by the media. If you do then you satisfy a fairly broad definition of "middle class".
If you're too poor to own a car and, hence, don't care about gas prices, then you're not middle class. If you're someone to whom a $1/gal delta in the price of gas is more-or-less meaningless then you're not middle class. If you're someone who lives in a dense, urban environment and doesn't own a car by choice then you're probably also not "middle class".
Many geologists claim that the amount of oil recoverable from shale deposits is vastly overestimated by shale oil entrepreneurs. Early this year the EIA decreased their estimate of the oil recoverable from the Monterey shale formation by 96 percent. Certainly there is a large discrepancy between reserves claimed in SEC filings vs. that claimed in public statements.
I wonder if there is a self-interest in operation here?
If the SEC filings are correct we only have a few years of oil from shale in our future. Production will be well into decline by the end of the decade.
If you have a long term market outlook it's something to think about....
Fuel prices tend to drop during election years, and especially years where the (R) have a shot at majority. The oil industry is more than willing to forego a few months profit to get control over the Congress. Expect the nastiest Presidential election ever in 2016 (and another temporary price dip). You know the Keystone XL was the real winner in this recent round of elections..... I'm off to fill my heating oil tank now.....
Cooking for one CAN be a hassle, for sure. I find it often works well to do a middle ground- microwave a frozen burrito, and toss fresh cheese, onions and tomato on top, or whatever I have on hand. I always have cheese on hand because it goes on so many things and is much better fresh than frozen. Similarly, I'll take 30 seconds to toss some ramen in water, then add whatever to make it good. That takes less time than going to McDonald's and costs $300/month less.
> to get something even mildly similar to a big mac.
I was specifically addressing the topic of eating fattening food vs willpower and the question "what about people who CAN'T AFFORD better than a Big Mac". I'm comparing the Big Mac to healthier food, not to a homemade Big Mac. Healthier food costs less than McDonald's food, so people aren't eating McDonald's because they can't afford healthy food.
Trivia fact regarding the Big Mac:
A Big Mac is $4. A McDonald's double cheeseburger with Mac sauce is $1-$1.50 and it's almost exactly the same thing.
I just bought a new premium-requiring gas-guzzling machine. And now gas prices fall dramatically. First time I've ever had such good luck.
Meanwhile, electricity prices go up. Sucks to be a new Tesla owner.
> optionally learning to cook ... pointless to cook only for themselves.
It's been my experience that if you can cook a few things well, attractive members of the opposite sex will eat with you. :)
It's simple math. The price spiked up and stayed high a few years ago, when has lead to the boom of (USA) domestic oil production in the Dakota area, and more oil available on the market, caused the price to drop, and exports from OPEC to drop. OPEC, wanting to sell more oil, lowers the price, pumps more, and floods the market with even more oil. This causes the speculators to drop the price on the open market. With the price lower, drilling for oil becomes cheaper, less return on a barrel of oil, versus the cost to extract & refine it, making domestic companies, investors stop or reduce drilling because of little or no return on that investment. You just can't stick a pipe in the ground to drill for oil in the USA anyway. You must get 3,103 different legal things sorted out, EPA, environmental impact, the hardware & people required to extract it, shipping it etc. So, once the domestic drilling slows or stops, and the "glut" of oil evaporates, then OPEC slows delivery of oil on the international stage, and BOOM! The price skyrockets again. By the time the domestic production ramps up again, it will be months if not years, thereby insuring a huge windfall for OPEC. Alternatives are ok, but, nothing will stop the use of petroleum products. A lot of anti-oil people forget, there are a LOT of medical discoveries, and cures available today, if not for the petro-chemical industry.
I wonder how this is affecting our neighbors to the North. Tar sands oil is expensive to extract and it was already being sold at a discount in the US market because they do not have pipelines that allow them to export to other markets. I think the last I heard $75 a barrel was their break even point but this was before they were shipping oil by rail, which must have impacted the cost.
This, and the the previous poster's point about using a temporary shift in fuel price as a basis for a long-term decision, show that there is a kind of desperate denial in place for many Americans.
They were sold the big dream and are unwilling to see the simple truth; the dream of an easy, middle class life for most Americans is gone. The SUV is their symbol that they still have the kind of economic freedom that a widely-shared national prosperity used to offer. The inconvenient truths that it will cost them outrageous amounts of money to fuel, and that it will probably need major repairs long before the 7 year loan is paid off are comfortably far away when they are in the showroom buying their toy.
Why is the dream gone? That is a whole nother' thread that covers many parallel trends.
But one overarching factor is that the overall pie is stagnant or shrinking. Aside from the unproductive shenanigans of the finance parasites, and a similar milking of trillions of dollars through the for-profit health care system, plus the temporary fracking bubble that drills most of its wells at a loss using other sucker's money, there really aren't many growing sectors of the economy. We've lost many of the productive activities that had broadly-shared economic multipliers.
I'm not sure why that is exactly, but I suspect that it is driven by the inexorable decline in the ease of extraction of energy and all forms of raw materials. The easy oil and gas, the rich deposits of minerals, the virgin forests holding hundreds of years worth of stored growth, the teeming fisheries are all nearly gone. And the easy wealth goes with it.
So rather than clinging to the illusion that our lives will continue to be about which status-enhancing consumer product we should buy next, we probably should start looking at what elements are actually required to have a satisfying life without the pumped-up economic circus.
I'll give a hint--it's not about what you buy, its more about who you love and who can trust you to do what you say you will.
You lower demand and increase supply you will lower price. This is why improve mpg must be law and all vehicles must be included.
As many have pointed out a heavy tax on energy will have repercussions throughout the economy. The best solution I've heard is to immediately distribute the fossil fuel tax equally through the population - that negates rising energy costs for individuals who have below-average energy consumption, while encouraging everyone at all points in the supply chain to shift to now-cheaper alternative energy sources.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
Whenever I buy a car, I build a spreadsheet to compare Total Cost of Ownership for several different models. One of the inputs, of course, is the price of fuel.
If that variable goes up, I am steered toward a more fuel-efficient vehicle, and according to Anthony Perl, I "have the willpower to stick with the program." But apparently I should banish that factor from my spreadsheet if the price of fuel goes down, lest I be steered toward a less fuel-efficient vehicle, and become guilty of a huge characater flaw.
I mean, an addiction to large overpriced SUVs that never touch dirt or mud is clearly an addiction spiraling out of control that we should probably earmark billions in taxpayer money.
You're being sarcastic, but Dubya took real action toward that end.
That that is is that that that that is not is not.
Uh...unable to control their "willpower" when buying a car?
Someone I know buys cars "because the salesman talks so nice". She sometimes goes to those things where dealers give free stuff, but sometimes says she's afraid to go because she might end up buying a car. Occasionally, she hands the phone to me and asks me to tell the salesman on the phone "no" for her, because she doesn't want to be rude.
Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
My 5.7 litre V8 Dodge gets 16 litres per 100 km and that's the way I like it...
Hi there, reality check here.
This is how petroleum prices are managed:
When the oil and gas industry wants fuel prices to be low they optimize the fuel supply chain and keep petroleum flowing so the supply meets demand.
When they want fuel prices to go up, they burden the supply chain to increase demand. One of their favorite tricks is to pilot their fuel container ships to about 20 miles off the coast of port and park them there, waiting for fuel prices to go up.
Fuel prices are managed much like department store sales.
Department stores gradually increase the price of popular items until customers stop buying, then they have a "sale" where they reduce the price of those items to the normal retail price.
Then they start to gradually drive up the prices again.
The petroleum industry does something similar; gradually drives prices up until consumers start to look into alternative fuel measures by stifling the supply of petroleum. Then when that point is reached they have a "sale" where they optimize the supply chain.
Your average consumer sees this as a modern miracle instead of researching to find out why the price went down, and they celebrate by driving, flying and using power sports vehicles more than ever.
Every time the supply chain is stifled the lowest price for petroleum notches upward a little bit to prevent customers from dumping petroleum but raise the overall price at the same time.
It is a common theme on /. Even if it were not, the climate problem is bigger than WW2 and you couldn't escape WW2 as a topic during that war. If they had today's bubble inducing media culture/tech then it would be possible and people would bitch about having to hear something unpleasant from outside their bubble.
No one cares what the stupid UN says. They just want to take our money to give to someone else like every government agency.
"Falling oil prices may also deter businesses from switching to energy-saving technology," NO business switch technology because it is saving energy. They switch technology because it costs less
The problem is, there have been no real proof that global temperatures have been going up. Some papers have been written on it, but every time they are looked at by other scientists they are found to be false. Scientists are even told to lie to get people to believe global warming.
As far as energy independent, we have oil in the US to last us 100+ years, better then spending billions on a solar plant that is going bankrupt.
More than 250,000 UK citizens have been killed by cold temperatures, despite how inexpensive energy is. To the extent people advocate against inexpensive energy, the death rate will increase, and the victims' [frozen] blood will on he hands of the advocates.
That that is is that that that that is not is not.
The poor pay a larger percentage of their income to fuel costs. Fracking lowers the cost of fuel. Therefore, I am for fracking because I am not in favor if a caste system. Environmentalists sounds like French pre-revolutionary land owners. They hate when the poor sully their lands with hunting for food.
The taxes on motor fuels should go to maintaining the roads and bridges. (and thats for both seasons of road maintenance - we are right on the transition from road construction to snow removal)
There should be a federal tax to pay for the interstate system, and state tax to pay for state/county roads and bridges.
I bought an electric car, volt, and after 6 months - I feel like I'm getting a $300 pay raise a month.
Yep - my electric bill goes up a whopping $25 a month, and I no longer sit in line at the costco gas
station.
Beat that
May as well burn it as quickly as possible.
Maybe if an $18,000 electric car with a 500 mile range that could charge in under an hour were developed, that would change.
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
You want to solve the obesity issue ? The fix is rather simple, remove the added sugar. It's easy to avoid the obvious stuff, not so easy when damn near anything purchased in a store has some sort of added sugar in it.
Challenge: While avoiding the organic isle, walk through any store and look at various items and note how much of it contains sugar. It's in quite a few things you wouldn't even think of.
Eating a block of it once per day, or eating smaller amounts of it several times a day equates to the same intake. Reduce the sugar, and you fix the problem.
I hope they realize that gas prices will just shoot back up and they won't drive their nice Jeep SUV. Dumb fucks
Rejoice! Global Warming Has Been Canceled!
If the Saudi's decide to flood the market a lot of sellers will be capping wells.
"Drivers across America are rejoicing at falling gasoline prices as pumps across the country dip below $3 a gallon .. while it's nice to get the break at the gas pump and the economic benefits of an energy boom at home" ..
..
"Specifically, with energy business as usual, the world is on a trajectory to raise the mean global temperature by at least 3 degrees C (5.4 degrees F) by the end of century, and possibly far more, a climate disruption that most scientists regard as catastrophic ref
They'll be doing them a favor. Those wells will still be there when the Saudis' run dry. And of course the Saudis know that, and we know that they know... and so on...
They will tread softly. A good parasite will nurture the host for their mutual benefit, a very well understood and very natural symbiotic relationship. We can do much better though than to let these pirates monopolize the business and be giving the key to the city to their lackeys.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
This effect will last one to one and half year maximum. You bet'cha!
Technology marches on. Sooner or later alternatives will become more viable than oil. Next decade or maybe 5 or 6 decades but it's coming.
TFA3 "Will Cheap Gas Undermine Climate-Change Efforts?" [...] "I don't think people will see the urgency of dealing with fossil fuels today," Perl said. Instead, he explained, people may choose to fill up their cars and burn fuel while the costs are low. [...] "This is like putting a Big Mac in front of people who need to diet or watch their cholesterol," Perl said. âoeSome people might have the willpower to stick with their program, and some people will wait until their first heart attack before committing to a diet --- but if we do that at a planetary scale it will be pretty traumatic."
This dialogue is straight from the United States' temperance movement that led up to a Constitutional amendment and a decade of peril, a black market economy comparable in size to the real one, and the Federally-subsidized ascension of organized crime. Some people think they are being proactive, easing their view of a world 'sin tax' as a way to stay global catastrophe. They are being hoodwinked into believing that unless they act soon by accepting some prepared package of countermeasures, some point of no return would be reached. This is being done in the traditional way, fronting claims that the (terrorists, evil corporations, fossil fuel interests) have "almost won".
But the real tripe, such as Perl spouts, misrepresents and marginalizes the personal motives among the poor and middle class folks who've managed to (just) stay afloat, and use their resources to acquire certain contested 'things'. Complicated and realistic motives, the whole spectrum of survival through pursuit of happiness (aka sanity) are reduced to some simple addict-reward-temperance model that suits the purpose. Then add a dash of global imperative and we have things like
I believe that the miseries consequent on the manufacture and sale of intoxicating liquors are so great as imperiously to command the attention of all dedicated lives; and that while the abolition of American slavery was numerically first, the abolition of the liquor traffic is not morally second.
~Elizabeth Stuart Phelps who helped to 'ferment' a revolution
Abolish slavery, then alcohol? This lady says this in 1897, a time when neither women nor former slaves in the US were permitted to vote. Priorities problem, much? Now cheap gas and pure-CO2 is the alcohol of the 21st century, and the same style of temperance movement is forming. It is hip and trendy. No one will confront you if you publicly picket for temperance in these matters.
Perhaps they should. Because where the rubber hits the road, such temperance movements are ultimately damaging to society. Phelps may have believed that the abolition of alcohol would magically 'elevate the human condition' to such a degree that other pressing issues of her day would be somehow solved, that it was drunkenness that was denying women the vote, or any other issue of the day to which she could have refocused her effort.
I'll say it flat out. Real people tend to have rational and understandable reasons for doing what they do. They will choose a vehicle that can hold a family and haul a load with a measure of real metal to stabilize it and protect them. They will choose a $30k truck or minivan over a $50k Tesla because... they have a choice.
Real innovation arises by pursuing real solutions to problems that result in the right choice being the cheapest one, not the one least encumbered by taxation. The future does not depend on the 'price of gas'. Temperance movements are ultimately about removing choice from the equation.
<blink>down the rabbit hole</blink>
The Sprinter is LESS efficient, it gets WORSE mileage.
The thing that drives me nuts over the whole AGW thing is that it is a distraction from the real reason we need to embrace renewables - fossil fuels are non-renewable and will be depleted in hundred years or less. We're passing peak oil now and we're on the downhill slide. Screw the environmental aspects, the socio-economic aspects are what are going to kick our asses if we don't get in gear soon. We have time to shift to a renewable energy infrastructure, particularly for transportation, but cheap gas slows progress in this regard. Gas will be inexpensive until it costs three of your newborn children for a gallon - it will be a quick hockey-stick exponential cost increase. At that point we will have weeks to build a new infrastructure that really requires decades to implement and must start now. AGW might actually be a thing, but unfortunately it is based on predictions of the behavior of a wildly chaotic non-linear system, so no one will really know until it happens. We'll be out of fossil fuels before we know for sure. The economic impact is the argument that both the blue and red sides might agree upon. Or not.
Left MS Windows for Linux Mint and never looked back!
Vote for Bernie in 2016!
Cheaper prices due to recent elections. Prices will go up again anyways!
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
Even if this global warming nonsense wasn't the most huge hoax ever perpetrated upon mankind and probably more dangerous than the last hoax of eugenics which inspired the likes of Hitler, pauparizing everyone except the very very rich, and attempting to create a society of only the very very rich and the very very poor by raising energy prices is not a righteous goal.
Lets compromise. Lets do everything we can to lower energy prices and thereby boost near-universal prosperity, while spending the resultant surplus money from said prosperity to bury the internal combustion engine, and later the external combustion ways of generating power forever. Something like this may someday actually happen:
http://www.extremetech.com/ext...
but if it doesn't, then SOMETHING, but only if we have the available money supplies to pursue it. Available money supplies do not tend to spring out of a society where 99% of the people are dirt-poor and 1% are extremely wealthy, but that's what high-cost energy tends to promote.
though nice to see lower gas prices, but all things considered from global politics to increasing CO2 content in atmosphere plus fracking and crises in middle east in addition to this year's elections. I find it somewhat scary why prices are lower and wonder if they will jump way up. Govts are seeking revenue (they get less from the rich) there are plans to tax mileage so with lower prices more car traveling which working smucks that have long commutes will bear more of the burden. Oh well, my morning gripes.
mfwright@batnet.com
Why should I have a solar power generator? Why not use a gas generator instead?
When the power goes out we usually feel helpless, searching frantically for the flashlights and candles. Some people try to be prepared for a blackout by buying a gas generator. While the gas powered generators do provide power, they do have a lot of issues that may not make them the best choice for you and your family.
Gas generators emit fumes that are annoying and hazardous. Because of this they have to be used outside and can be inconvenient and noisy. The other, and most serious problem is that during a disaster gas is almost always in short supply.
Lets take an example from Super Storm Sandy. When Sandy hit the East Coast it left millions of people without power. The power outage lasted for weeks in some areas and to make matters worse, gas was nearly impossible to get. If you were lucky, you would wait in line for hours and were only allowed to get half a tank. Unfortunately, this gas shortage caused people who relied solely on a gas generator for power to be left in the dark.
Solar power generators do not use gas, have no harmful or annoying fumes and can be used indoors. They are extremely quiet and the only noise they make is when a quiet fan turns on, occasionally, to keep the system cool.
www.bepreparedsolar.com
You (and many others) need an intro class in economics.
It hurts to hear such nonsense reasoning.
I was comparing real-world road driving I've seen reported. Is that 6.9L figure a government estimate based on a synthetic formula?
Metric mother fucker!
Do you speak it????
The prominence of the 1st 2nd and even 3rd worlds have been using the metric system for 40 odd years!
Hey dumbass! The poor benefit from lower fuel prices, also.
Joe Biden is a square shooter. Joe Biden for 2016
is that while other companies have to prepare for disaster or have an action plan in place in case of disaster, oil companies do not. Impending hurricane? It might stop production of oil for a day or two, so we have to raise prices in preparation for that. Then even if nothing happens, they don't have to repay that money or put it aside (like any other company). They get to keep that as profit and then the next quarter earnings reports show "a record profit" It's bullshit. The oil companies should have money put aside for unplanned events (disaster preparedness) just like any other company has to do.
The day Microsoft creates a product that doesn't suck, it will be known as the Microsoft Vaccuum Cleaner!
to get more fiber and micronutrients: In practice, it is what we're eating. Exercise just makes us want to eat more afterwards. Enough fiber and micronutrients shuts off our "appestat" and we feel full on less calories. See, for one example, Dr. Fuhrman's approach, which suggests people aspire to one pound cooked and one pound raw veggies every day (hard to do, but even getting close yields great benefits):
http://www.drfuhrman.com/libra...
http://www.drfuhrman.com/libra...
That said, exercise is generally *great* for your overall health, including boosting immune function by getting the lymph moving. And outdoors exercise in sunlight under the right conditions can help with vitamin D deficiency.
See also:
http://fuhrmaneattolivereview....
"Nutrisystem, Jenny Craig, MediFast and Weightwatchers offer only traditional foods from the Standard American Diet that are known to be the root cause of obesity and other common diseases. The portions may be smaller in size and in the number of calories but their nutrition is negligible and too low as confirmed by the Aggregate Nutrition Density Index."
Getting back to the main topic, in the same way, if we were producing power locally-to-the-neighborhood like via Solar PV or maybe someday hot/cold fusion, we would be less likely to have unpaid-up-front external costs like cross-country pollution, economic risks, or maintaining the US military in the middle east. Then our economy and society would be a lot healthier. Energy efficiency also works like local energy production and so generally is a great thing. Consuming foreign il is an invitation to disaster, like the USA has not learned its lesson from the 1970s!
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americ...
"We are at a turning point in our history. There are two paths to choose. One is a path I've warned about tonight, the path that leads to fragmentation and self-interest. Down that road lies a mistaken idea of freedom, the right to grasp for ourselves some advantage over others. That path would be one of constant conflict between narrow interests ending in chaos and immobility. It is a certain route to failure.
All the traditions of our past, all the lessons of our heritage, all the promises of our future point to another path, the path of common purpose and the restoration of American values. That path leads to true freedom for our nation and ourselves. We can take the first steps down that path as we begin to solve our energy problem.
Energy will be the immediate test of our ability to unite this nation, and it can also be the standard around which we rally. On the battlefield of energy we can win for our nation a new confidence, and we can seize control again of our common destiny."
Sadly, the USA took the wrong path to the feel-good-in-the-short-term Reagan years back then... But thankfully some people did not give up, and the cost of solar PV continues to fall and energy efficiency improvement continue to be made despite it not being a level playing field because the price of fossil fuels and nukes don't account for many negative externalities. But we could have been there in the 1980s, and saved decades of military costs and health costs and pollution remediation costs incurred since then.
A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
Lower gas prices are great, I like to pay less, but we already accustomed ourselves to higher prices. So the right thing to do is increase taxes on gasoline and have that funding go exclusively to infrastructure projects, such as fixing the gazillion potholes, crumbling bridges, and especially expanding rail and other public transit. If the idea is to raise taxes and throw it all in the big pot called general fund then forget it. If we pay more it should have meaning, not feed pet projects of powerful Congress people.
Your assumption that I sometimes buy new cars in incorrect. Cars depreciate about as fast as PCs, and I take great satisfaction knowing that someone else ate that depreciation.
But whether I buy new or used is irrelevant to the point I was trying to make. If it's logical for people to buy a more fuel-efficient vehicle when the price of fuel increases (and it is), it is also logical -- not a lack of willpower or other character flaw -- for people to buy a less fuel-efficient vehicle when the price of fuel decreases. Anthony Perl can't have it both ways.
That that is is that that that that is not is not.
Good point, you're talking about the "Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances" in which "Ukraine gave up the world's third largest nuclear weapons stockpile." Ukraine is ruing the day it was suckered into those "Security Assurances."
That that is is that that that that is not is not.
Iranians don't want nukes to attack their neighbors, they want them as a defensive deterrent.
Your faith in the rationality of this Great-Satan-rhetoric-spewing, eschatology-minded, 12th-imam-loving nation is greater than mine.
The guys who cooperated, and gave up their nuke programs (Saddam Hussein, Muammar Qaddafi), are dead.
I recall Gaddafi voluntarily handing over materiel, and being much more cooperative with UN weapons inspectors than Hussein. He should have been rewarded with, perhaps, a quiet asylum villa where he could have lived out his retirement. Not this: "The video appears to picture Gaddafi being poked or stabbed in the rear 'with some kind of stick or knife' or possibly a bayonet".
That that is is that that that that is not is not.
I bought a wrangler because the roads suck in New England! Now offroading is a hobby. I don't care about mpg. If I want mpg I'd drive my wife's car.