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The Military's Latest Enemy: Climate Change

Lasrick writes A surprising report from the Pentagon last month places climate change squarely among the seemingly endless concerns of the US military. Although a Wall Street Journal editorial misrepresented the report in an editorial (subtitled 'Hagel wants to retool the military to stop glaciers from melting'), the report itself is straightforward and addresses practical military issues such as land management of bases and training facilities. "So, this plan is not really about mobilizing against melting glaciers; it's more like making sure our ships have viable facilities from which to launch bombs against ISIS. And the report doesn't just focus on home, though. It casts a wider eye towards how a changing climate will affect defense missions in the future."

163 comments

  1. The Pentagon is more important than climate change by MillionthMonkey · · Score: 4, Informative
  2. By electing a Republican President by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Our military can *eliminate* this enemy once and for all!

    1. Re:By electing a Republican President by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      james inhofe, head of the senate environment committee says, flatly without and caveats, that climate change is a hoax,

    2. Re:By electing a Republican President by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Our military can *eliminate* this enemy once and for all!

      Is there something Americans WON'T declare war on ?
      I mean, it's kind of disturbing if you think about it. An entire society devoted to "solving" problems by using weapons.
      No suprise they're so fucked up.

    3. Re:By electing a Republican President by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      james inhofe, head of the senate environment committee says, flatly without and caveats, that climate change is a hoax,

      No problem, the NSA has a dossier on him. Just find the right kind of trash and good ol' Inhofe will be leading the war on climate change.

    4. Re:By electing a Republican President by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ignorance, I bet.

    5. Re:By electing a Republican President by Truth_Quark · · Score: 1

      I heard that now that the Republicans control the Senate, the US will soon be invading Ebola.

    6. Re:By electing a Republican President by JDAustin · · Score: 1

      We already did (US ground troops in Liberia)...and Republicans had nothing to do with it.

    7. Re:By electing a Republican President by Truth_Quark · · Score: 1

      Go troops!

      I hope no one mentions to them Ebola is in DRC.

    8. Re:By electing a Republican President by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did it require an Ruaaian FSB dossier on you to make you claim that stupid bullshit?

    9. Re:By electing a Republican President by Immerman · · Score: 1

      Easily fixed. Obviously it's the democracy that's causing the problem, we'll just overthrow the government and install a puppet dictator. It won't actually solve the problem, but why pass up the opportunity?

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
  3. those who live in glass houses by phantomfive · · Score: 2

    It entertains me when a Slashdot story is insulting other websites' headlines and editing practices. Seriously?

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    1. Re:those who live in glass houses by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      But don't you see? Climate change means victory for ISIS!

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    2. Re:those who live in glass houses by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Ah, the propagandas align so nicely.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    3. Re:those who live in glass houses by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      I'd say that anyone more competent than the youtube comments section can probably afford to snipe at the WSJ editorials now and again.

    4. Re:those who live in glass houses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know, I think we need to make women wear bathing caps again. They're clogging the drain.

    5. Re:those who live in glass houses by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      Well, hell. We've been fighting imaginary threats to democracy for 13-14 years now; why not another one?

    6. Re:those who live in glass houses by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      We've been fighting imaginary threats to democracy for 13-14 years now...

      :-) Yes, I too, remember how blissful life was before then...

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    7. Re:those who live in glass houses by khallow · · Score: 2

      There were so many fewer imaginary threats to democracy back then. You kids don't know how you have it now.

    8. Re:those who live in glass houses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But don't you see? Climate change means victory for ISIS!

      Yeah! Screw the environment, the only thing that will be green in this office is the scratchy rug.

    9. Re:those who live in glass houses by ultranova · · Score: 1

      We've been fighting imaginary threats to democracy for 13-14 years now; why not another one?

      I was once playing one of those stealth-based games. As I sneaked behind the guards, one asked the other: "yeah, but why do they tell us which way to face?" or something to that effect.

      No idea why your comment reminded me of that. Weird.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    10. Re:those who live in glass houses by dywolf · · Score: 1

      if that were true, there are 3 possible scenarios that would occur:
      a) the rest of hte country would get on board the science train and we'd solve global warming in a heartbeat because...terrorists
      b) we'd convince the half of the country who's freaked out ignore ISIS and realize they arent actually a threat
      c) half the country would go into apolectic fits trying to choose between a or b

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    11. Re:those who live in glass houses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There were so many fewer imaginary threats to democracy back then. You kids don't know how you have it now.

      Less imaginary threats, but more real threats. That's not better.

      See, whether the threat's real or not, government is gonna use it as an excuse to further its own agenda. They're still gonna make you pay taxes.

      But with imaginary threats, you have a much better chance at resisting. It's much easier to argue that climate change is not a threat than say, Communism.

      At the very least, you can choose to not buy into the FUD. You as an individual don't have to be scared by those imaginary threats.

      Furthermore, even with lower quantity of imaginary threats, quality matters. There's less fuss over climate change, but the fear for what was there (OZONE LAYER) was a lot strong. The masses bought into the fought much more easily, with less resistance and skepticism. If they did resist, climate change wouldn't have grown into such a profitable lobby today.

    12. Re:those who live in glass houses by rioki · · Score: 1

      Except... Drugs and Communism.

    13. Re:those who live in glass houses by Immerman · · Score: 1

      Are you seriously using ozone depletion as an example of government hoaxes? A case where the science was so strong that we had essentially no problem arranging global cooperation to radically reduce industrial scale usage of ozone-destroying compounds? The reason we don't have that major crisis on our hands is because we all got together and bandaged a major problem we were creating. After years of rapid growth the Antarctic ozone hole has now been stabilized for years.

      But man, what a price we paid - having to pay 3% more for refrigerants and propellants that don't destroy our planet's protective shield against being cooked by ultraviolet light. And just think of all the lost profits to the sunscreen and umbrella industries! Clearly this is all the result of a conspiracy funded by the swimsuit lobby.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    14. Re:those who live in glass houses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you seriously using ozone depletion as an example of government hoaxes?

      Communication 101: know your audience

      khallow has a history of believing that the whole climate debate is indeed exaggerated if not manufactured by special (moneyed) interests. Extending that to apply to the ozone layer was just me speaking in his language.

    15. Re:those who live in glass houses by khallow · · Score: 1
      To be honest, I was sarcastic in a way that echoes fustakrakich earlier comment. It doesn't take a lot of historical knowledge to figure out that imaginary threats have been with us for millennia (for example, Socrates being accused of "corrupting the youth" and introducing strange gods to Athens, oh dear!) not just the last 13-14 years.

      I see that with your above post and your reply to Immerman, that you attempted something similar, even going as far as to state:

      Communication 101: know your audience

      If you had really "known" your audience, you either wouldn't have confused Immerman, or would have confused him in a far more entertaining way. As for me, I'm not interested in insincere agreement.

      Having said that, there are some good points to your post above. Your last sentence in particular makes a very good point. If the public had put in more healthy skepticism and/or knuckle-dragging obstruction to climate change rhetoric and policies, it wouldn't have been so profitable a lobby.

    16. Re:those who live in glass houses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you had really "known" your audience, you either wouldn't have confused Immerman, or would have confused him in a far more entertaining way.

      Why wouldn't I have confused Immerman? He wasn't my audience at the time I replied to you. You were my audience, and you seem to have gotten it.

      As for me, I'm not interested in insincere agreement.

      Well, since you're interested enough to reply, I guess my agreement isn't that insincere.

    17. Re:those who live in glass houses by khallow · · Score: 1

      Why wouldn't I have confused Immerman? He wasn't my audience at the time I replied to you.

      He didn't stop reading slashdot just because you posted to it.

      Well, since you're interested enough to reply

      Yay for high standards.

  4. Say it isn't so! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A newspaper reporter slash journalist slash editorialist misrepresented facts?!?

    Surely this travesty shall not go unpunished nor be unnoticed, lest it become anything other than rare?!?
     

  5. The Wall Street Journal has become a tabloid. by Layzej · · Score: 2, Informative

    A Wall Street Journal editorial misrepresented the report in an editorial (subtitled 'Hagel wants to retool the military to stop glaciers from melting'),

    The Wall Street Journal has become a tabloid. It is beyond ridiculous.

    1. Re:The Wall Street Journal has become a tabloid. by fustakrakich · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Murdoch still owns it, right? Well, there ya go...

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    2. Re:The Wall Street Journal has become a tabloid. by phantomfive · · Score: 2

      The Wall Street Journal has become a tabloid. It is beyond ridiculous.

      Yeah, ever since they added color, it's all been downhill.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    3. Re:The Wall Street Journal has become a tabloid. by radarskiy · · Score: 2

      Note that is is an *editorial*, i.e. lunatic ramblings with no fact checking. The WSJ has always allowed nutjobs onto the editorial pages even if their claims are directly contradicted by the news in the same edition. This is not a new phenomenon.

  6. They are going big into alternative energy by plopez · · Score: 1, Troll

    Such as solar cells and hybrids. see http://www.washingtontimes.com...

    Part of the reason was the number of supply convoys hit by attacks in Iraq and Afghanistan and the strategic problem caused by dependency on foreign fuel suppliers. Protecting supply lines can be expensive. But personally I am waiting for this new Congress to kill the initiatives in favor of fossil fuels and the obsolete methods of powering the military.

    --
    putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    1. Re:They are going big into alternative energy by tinkerghost · · Score: 2

      They already sent a directive in the budget that they are not to spend money preparing for global warming related issues. That includes things like loosing some of the atoll emergency landing strips in the far east, the failure of the south Florida fresh water supply. Coastal base issues etc.

    2. Re:They are going big into alternative energy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      so which atolls and strips have recently been covered in water?

    3. Re:They are going big into alternative energy by TWX · · Score: 1

      Hold on, lemme check the weather reports to see where it's raining...

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    4. Re:They are going big into alternative energy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "They already sent a directive in the budget that they are not to spend money preparing for global warming related issues."

      Apparently they want to not merely fiddle while Rome burns, but actively discourage anyone from trying to put the fires out.

    5. Re:They are going big into alternative energy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Solar cells are nice, but what we really need is real money (not a token amount) put into battery research. If we can get storage batteries at power substations, that would mean a grid that better can handle varying loads. This way, energy at non-peak levels can be stored to offset peak generation, and once solar can handle all peak, energy can be stored for nighttime.

      Next to that, we need a system of converting CO2 from the air into a usable fuel, ideally propane, because propane is not a greenhouse gas and inert. Since even propane is order of magnitudes better than any batteries, using LP as a fuel would be an option.

      After storage batteries and effective ways to use energy to pull CO2 from the air to use as a fuel so fundamental infrastructure can stay in place, the next part will be changing infrastructure.

      Medium term, LFTR and other modern reactors, especially thorium and breeding types.

      Long term, fusion... goes without saying.

    6. Re:They are going big into alternative energy by flatulus · · Score: 1

      Next to that, we need a system of converting CO2 from the air into a usable fuel, ideally propane, because propane is not a greenhouse gas and inert.

      Really? My reading is that the equation for propane combustion is: C3H8 + 5O2 = 3CO2 + 4H20

      Maybe propane produces less CO2, pound for pound, than say, coal. (I don't actually know, and don't care to look it up.) But it certainly produces CO2 when burned.

      Oh, and anyone who's ever cooked on a propane grill, or used a propane torch, will attest to its distinct non-inertness...

    7. Re:They are going big into alternative energy by riverat1 · · Score: 1

      If the carbon in the propane is drawn from CO2 in the atmosphere then burning the propane will be carbon neutral. But it's going to take more energy to draw that CO2 from the atmosphere than you'll get back out of the CO2.

    8. Re:They are going big into alternative energy by kenaaker · · Score: 1
      That process is already running in pilot plants in Germany. They're generating methane using a Sabatier process driven by excess renewable energy. The methane is injected into the national natural gas pipeline network. Typically national natural gas pipeline systems have a buffer of several days to weeks of supply.

      The Wikipedia article is labeled Power to Gas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P... There's a section for hydrogen and another section for methane. And of course, once you have methane and CO, you have feedstock for Fischer-Tropsch processes that provide liquid fuels.

    9. Re:They are going big into alternative energy by Apuleius · · Score: 1

      Turn to Google and look up "king tides."

  7. Repeat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    This was already posted when it came out last month

    http://news.slashdot.org/story/14/10/13/2044217/pentagon-unveils-plan-for-militarys-response-to-climate-change

  8. Nothing new, CC identified as threat long ago ... by perpenso · · Score: 4, Informative

    Nothing new here. Climate Change was identified as a global destabilization factor long ago by the US military. Crop failures, droughts, flooding, etc leading to mass migrations and the conflict and strife that will arise our of these migrations.

  9. Many potential impacts of climate change by AeroMed45N · · Score: 5, Informative

    It was my sense that the military was examining several factors that can impact their mission and ability to meet that mission over the coming decades. This includes not only the recognized increase in regional conflicts due to displacement of people by flooding and/or changes in food supplies due to climatic changes in rainfall patterns. It also includes thinking about the predictions for ocean rising and that impact on the bases that support the military around the world - naval bases, and airfields near current sea levels aren't something that one moves in a couple of years.

    And lastly, thinking about how the impact on troops and equipment might change - will there be more fighting in high heat locations? Heavy rain? What will be the impacts on availability of fuel sources and on supply chains?

    The military is a huge "ship" that takes much time to turn. Looking out a few decades and postulating what might be needed is not a bad exercise. They would be soundly criticized later if they hadn't. But it is interesting that the main military supports on the right are also the main body of climate change deniers, which puts the military in a dicey political environment. They need to prepare, but carefully.

    Is anyone surprised that a Rupert Murdoch owned paper decided to misrepresent what the military was doing about climate change?

    1. Re:Many potential impacts of climate change by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      The nice thing about professional paranoia is that you can worry about everything. Global warming (err, climate change), Ebola, vaccines, Republicans and Zombies. Even UFOs. There are one hell of a lot of three ringed binders in the Pentagon.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:Many potential impacts of climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The military is a huge "ship" that takes much time to turn.

      And that, right there, is why the military needs to be cut to a fraction of its current size.

      When World War II broke out, the US military was tiny - compared with its enemies', or with itself at any later time. Yet that was the war that established American world dominance. You don't win a major war by having the biggest army at the start, you win it by having the biggest economy. A military establishment that drains that economy is actually counter-productive to national security. (Just ask the Former Soviet Union.)

    3. Re:Many potential impacts of climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The military is a huge "ship" that takes much time to turn.

      Perhaps it would be better to say that the military knows it has to be operational few decades to the future, instead of being sold after a successful IPO. The same could be said about most government functions.

    4. Re:Many potential impacts of climate change by dave420 · · Score: 1, Informative

      Global warming = the increase in average temperature of the globe
      Climate change = the changes in the climate which are caused by global warming

      It's not difficult, so you don't really have an excuse to get these confused.

    5. Re:Many potential impacts of climate change by KORfan · · Score: 1

      Correction: You win World War II by having the biggest economy. We don't get to refight WWII. The flaws in your thinking is called refighting the last war, and you can fill bookcases with what's been written about that.

    6. Re:Many potential impacts of climate change by PPalmgren · · Score: 1

      Well said. I might add that as time has pressed onward, so has the the compression of war. Put simply, we're really good at killing people and really good at killing them quickly. What would have taken months in 1940 took us a week in Iraq. Technology tightens the screws on first strike advantage, to the point where you now don't have time to ramp up production.

    7. Re:Many potential impacts of climate change by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      When WWII broke out, the US Army and Army Air Corps were tiny. The US Navy was the second largest in the world.

      We started building up the US Army in 1940. This considerably delayed US participation in the war. US ground forces were not used against the European Axis (if you consider the Vichy as European Axis) until roughly two and a half years after the buildup began, and it was more than another year and a half before US ground forces started to reach their potential.

      Had the US started the buildup a year earlier, perhaps invasions of both France and Italy could have gone ahead in 1943, and the world would have been even more to our liking afterwards.

      The US attained such dominance not because of its military power, but because it was the one advanced industrial nation to be largely untouched by the destruction of war.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  10. Re:Nothing new, CC identified as threat long ago . by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

    We have met the enemy and he is us?

    --
    Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  11. Pacific and Coastal Bases by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Along with the many east coast bases (Florida and Virginia, anyone?), several very sea-level islands in the Pacific are pretty much the key to the defense of most of the US coast. If the sea level rises even three meters most of these will be under water.

    1. Re:Pacific and Coastal Bases by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      So we need a few more aircraft carriers. Never let a crisis go to waste.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:Pacific and Coastal Bases by bigwheel · · Score: 2

      "If the sea level rises even three meters most of these will be under water."

      At the current rate, that will be one thousand years from now. http://oceanservice.noaa.gov/f...

    3. Re:Pacific and Coastal Bases by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Along with the many east coast bases (Florida and Virginia, anyone?), several very sea-level islands in the Pacific are pretty much the key to the defense of most of the US coast. If the sea level rises even three meters most of these will be under water.

      If the sea levels rise even 3 meters you've got much bigger problems on your hands than losing a number of military installations.
      Almost half of the American population lives near the coasts (east and west). You think they're all going to want to live in Arkansas ?

    4. Re:Pacific and Coastal Bases by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And why would it be at the current rate?

  12. Congressional funding by mjm1231 · · Score: 1

    It will be interesting to see the Republican controlled congress debate military funding for a problem they deny the existence of.

    --
    Ideology: A tool used primarily to avoid the bother of thinking.
    1. Re:Congressional funding by KeensMustard · · Score: 1

      What problem did they make up?

    2. Re:Congressional funding by thrich81 · · Score: 3, Informative

      You know that the current Secretary of Defense, top guy in the Pentagon, appointed by President Obama, is a Republican, having served as such as senator from Nebraska in the US Senate for two terms. Also being a former Army enlisted squad leader in Vietnam with two Purple Hearts, I doubt he would adjust his views much and sell out the armed forces for Democratic Party politics.

    3. Re:Congressional funding by Falconhell · · Score: 0

      Oh the irony of you sig, for another dumnfuck denier, It's particularly apt.

    4. Re:Congressional funding by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think he checked that box when he greenlighted the trade of five Taliban commanders for an American deserter. Commanders, by the way, that have actual, documented American blood on their hands.

    5. Re:Congressional funding by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Documented? By anyone other than the people who turned them in for the reward money? Bullshit.

    6. Re:Congressional funding by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That man controls the climate which is like saying we control the climate of our galaxy as we orbit around it through various galactic conditions.

    7. Re:Congressional funding by KeensMustard · · Score: 1

      That man

      Which man?

      That man controls the climate which is like saying we control the climate of our galaxy as we orbit around it through various galactic conditions.

      Is earth approximately the same volume as the galaxy?

  13. Politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can imagine soon they'll be ordered to stop any and all discussion of climate change because Jesus.

  14. Re:Nothing new, CC identified as threat long ago . by TWX · · Score: 1

    French author Jean Raspail wrote a novel, Camp of the Saints, about a third-world invasion of the first-world. In part the invasion was successful because the first-world powers weren't willing to sink the massive ad-hoc flotilla of ships with millions of refugees onboard, but even though it was far-fetched in some ways, the concept that millions upon millions of people would be willing to risk it all to leave where they are now, where they have no future and possibly no means to survive, to force their way to somewhere else that might have more opportunity even with the new struggles, is already reality. We already have tens of millions of undocumented migrants into "western" countries, and even in developing countries we see people moving around as they feel they have no means to survive where they started out.

    The trouble is, there's no solution. We can't go in and dictate to third-world countries how to live; they won't cooperate with us and we can't even come to consensus on what we would do. They won't self-determine in ways that are beneficial the population without some form of discrimination, and they won't self-determine without corruption. If it were easy after all, it would have been solved already.

    --
    Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
  15. history repeating by Texmaize · · Score: 0, Interesting

    When I read this, all I could think of was pre wwii Stalin Russia. When the dictator, Stalin, rose to power, he purged the military of its talented officers, because they were most likely to be able to mount an effective resistance to him. When WWII came, the Germans faced a very weak officer core, and were able to run over the Soviets fairly easily. It took an abnormally early winter to save them from that blunder.

    In an eerily similar fashion, many top US generals have been encouraged to resign in the last several years. Now, with the rise of ISIS, a newly expansionist Russia, and the spectra of a waking dragon, the US officer core is saying weather is our biggest threat.
    Wake up and do the math /.

    --
    "Liberalism is a very noble idea, currently controlled by some very bad people. Be sure you do not get the two confused.
    1. Re:history repeating by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      There is a tad bit of difference between mass executions and accelerated retirements. The US officer core is very top heavy. How many generals do you need, anyway? There is a clear plan to thin those ranks over the next decade or so. It's slow enough that the largest military in the world (TM) can handle it. Not to worry. Colonels and majors can push paper quite well, thankyouverymuch.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:history repeating by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Core / corps - although either one sort of works. Grrr.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    3. Re:history repeating by Deadstick · · Score: 1

      The notion that illiteracy is rising on the Internet is a liberal hoax.

    4. Re:history repeating by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Core / corps - although either one sort of works. Grrr.

      Don't worry there's always someone to fuck these up :

      their/there
      were/where
      its/it's ....

    5. Re:history repeating by Jeremi · · Score: 2

      Now, with the rise of ISIS, a newly expansionist Russia, and the spectra of a waking dragon, the US officer core is saying weather is our biggest threat.

      Ignoring the "spectra of a waking dragon" (whatever the hell that is), and fact that you don't appear to understand the difference between 'weather' and 'climate' -- can you point to the place in the report where it says that "climate change is our biggest threat"?

      I suspect you cannot, and the reason you cannot is because you pulled that claim out of your ass.

      --


      I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
    6. Re:history repeating by TwoEyedJack · · Score: 0

      Climate is nothing more or less than the integral of weather.

    7. Re:history repeating by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do know, that most of "purged officer cores" were actually fellows, that worked and got their salary from nkvd and not by red army? This claim is backed by soviet archive documents.
      During soviet purges in 30-s, Stalin put the nkvd "fellows" in the army to hold them under his iron fist, but as the great war to "workers liberation in western-europe (Operatsia Groza)" got nearer and nearer, he needed to get rid of officers like "".

    8. Re:history repeating by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      damn slashdot does not like russian alfabet. And, does not like special characters, like s with a upper ~ ... he needed to get rid of officers like Tuhhatsevski

    9. Re:history repeating by Jeremi · · Score: 1

      Climate is nothing more or less than the integral of weather.

      Sure, in the same way that everyday mechanical physics is nothing more or less than the integral of quantum mechanics.

      The statement is technically true, but also quite misleading, in that in both cases knowing something about the behavior at one scale isn't going to give you much intuition about how things behave at the other.

      --


      I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
    10. Re:history repeating by TwoEyedJack · · Score: 0

      The point is that if you are unable to derive a good (predictive) model for a function (weather in this case), then you have no hope of modeling the integral of that function (climate). This is especially true if there are dozens and dozens of variables that interact in unknown, non-linear ways, and experimentation is pretty much impossible. Add in the time scale, which is measured in millennia, compared to our data set (decades), and any rational person comes to the inescapable conclusion that climate alarmists are driven by ideology and not science.

    11. Re:history repeating by Jeremi · · Score: 1

      The point is that if you are unable to derive a good (predictive) model for a function (weather in this case), then you have no hope of modeling the integral of that function (climate)./quote.

      My point is that the above is simply not true -- for example, despite the fact that at the quantum level events are happening randomly and unpredictably all the time, we are nevertheless able to use Newton's and Einstein's laws to predict the future positions of planets and spaceships with amazing accuracy.

      In a similar fashion, climate scientists can predict long-term climate trends with much better accuracy than the weatherman can predict the weather, precisely because all the little random events average each other out over a large enough sample size.

      --


      I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
    12. Re:history repeating by TwoEyedJack · · Score: 0

      If it is true that "climate scientists can predict long-term climate trends with much better accuracy", then why are all the climate models so very far off from what we have actually observed over the last 15 years? The reason for your assertion is that it takes a long time to compare predicted vs. actual. If the weather guy is wrong, we know it within a few days. If the climate guy is wrong, it takes decades to see he is FOS.

  16. Re:Nothing new, CC identified as threat long ago . by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

    Just try to be part of the Coast Guard in any state on the northern border of the Mediterranean. It's not going to get better.

    Fortunately (?) these changes happen fairly slowly. A few more refugee boat sinkings get wrapped up in Kim Kardishain's latest divorce or another Ebola scare. The US is largely immune from this - I'd worry if I were Canadian, however.

    I suppose we could give the refugees an old aircraft carrier ....

    --
    Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  17. Thank GOD the republicans are back in charge. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We can nip this utter stupidity in the bud. What the fuck is wrong with liberals and leftists that makes them think our military should be used this way? Fucking idiots.

    1. Re:Thank GOD the republicans are back in charge. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're the idiot. Those of us in the military are tired of providing security around the world for oil tankers and pipelines to move oil in hellholes.

      This seems like a much better plan.

  18. Re:The Pentagon is more important than climate cha by DivineKnight · · Score: 1

    Because SDI was never mothballed.

  19. Translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "We need more moneeeey!", "need to blow up dark skinned people", "have to steal their resources etc".

  20. Climate change will eventually be accepted by all by ad454 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    All that is needed would be for new "climate change industrial complex" consisting of industries with huge growth potentials from climate change after-effects (such as dike/levee builders, water management including reclaimation & desalination, fertilisers for new growing regions with marginal soil, mega construction for displaced infrastructure, etc.) to make more money then the coal and petroleum industries. It may not sound like much, but many trillions of dollars will be needed for this.

    Then they will be able to give/bribe more money to politicians, who will the universally accept climate change as fact and change the public perception.

    Until then there is enough money from a new "climate change industrial complex", public doubt will remain.

  21. Rising sea levels by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Rising sea levels mean we need a larger navy. There is more ocean to patrol, to one.

  22. Nuke it by Nico3d3 · · Score: 1

    Time to nuke global warming!!!

  23. Not a big deal by Spy+Handler · · Score: 1

    military does this kind of stuff a lot. Anti war demonstrators like to insult the military saying it's stupid and "military intelligence" is an oxymoron, etc. But actually the military has many forward thinkers and they do a lot of planning and debating "what if" scenarios.

    Back in the 60's they did a lot of strategizing about a possible moon base, in the 80's they did thought exercises on the possible implications of a Soviet meltdown, what would happen to our military capabilities in a worldwide AIDS/Anthrax pandemic, and so on. Now AGW is all over the news and they're doing contingency plans for that. No big deal, really.

    1. Re:Not a big deal by tie_guy_matt · · Score: 2

      Yes in my experience there are a lot of smart people in the military. It is the politicians that send the military into quagmires that are stupid.

  24. Re:Nothing new, CC identified as threat long ago . by Pino+Grigio · · Score: 0

    But that has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with "climate change". Indeed, the whole thesis is complete tripe given the steady decrease in global poverty and world hunger over the last 25 years. I needn't bother saying there's been no statistically significant warming for 18 years either, need I?

  25. John McCain says ... by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

    ... Obama needs to put boots on the ground.

    --
    It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    1. Re:John McCain says ... by Njorthbiatr · · Score: 1

      It's only a matter of time before Congress declares war on global warming.

  26. Re:The Pentagon is more important than climate cha by dotancohen · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why are we spending so much money on satellites? We could have bought a couple Cold War fighter jets that will never be used and that explode on liftoff!

    Is that parody or is that news? I cannot believe that one-sided, war-mongering, short-sighted propaganda piece is called 'News'. It packs more lies, ridicule, non sequiturs, and manipulation into three minutes than I've even seen before. Are people really expected watch that and then form their own opinions? If that is how Americans get their news, it explains so much about American ignorance, xenophobia, and thirst for war.

    --
    It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
  27. In dishonor of Samzenpus by DiamondGeezer · · Score: 1

    #cuethedeniers

    --
    Tubby or not tubby. Fat is the question
  28. Re:Nothing new, CC identified as threat long ago . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's always funny to assume that climate change will impact everyone EXCEPT the Americans. It's like they're living in the garden of Eden. Except that if you look at reality, the whole American Southwest is becoming more like the Gobi desert than Miami beach. Climate change is going to destabilise even the great US of A. Wouldn't it be a supreme irony to have milions of US illegal aliens going up north to Canada or down south to Mexico ? These countries should just shoot on sight as a payback for all the pain and misery the great US has foistered on them for the last 30 years especially Mexico.

  29. Finally the next "WAR ON..." successor announced by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I for one can't wait for the "war on climate change".

    I think it is a valid reason for the NSA to need to know every thought you have, in case you might be colluding with known "climate changers".

    The police need more power too! They will have far more homes to raid without a warrant, because of suspicions of causing climate change. And of course the poor minority areas will be unusually large polluters for some inexplicable reason.

    And don't forget the government contracts handed out to various corporations to "fix" climate change for everyone. It's just lucky that the campaign contributors happen to be running such companies. ...Yes can't wait for the next "war"

  30. Re:The Pentagon is more important than climate cha by MillionthMonkey · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I cannot believe that one-sided, war-mongering, short-sighted propaganda piece is called 'News'.

    I used to work for a guy who founded a software company in Sunnyvale. After Bush got reelected, he decided to sell the company to Agilent for a couple million bucks, went back to Australia, and formed a new company there. He comes back to visit sometimes, and says that he now gets a lot of questions from people in Australia- "What happened over there? Americans used to be smart!" His standard answer: "No, it's not that they're stupid, but the news they get in the U.S. is really bad."

  31. Re:Nothing new, CC identified as threat long ago . by russotto · · Score: 1

    Except that if you look at reality, the whole American Southwest is becoming more like the Gobi desert than Miami beach.

    Is there some reason you'd expect the Sonaran Desert to be anythng like Miami Beach? Aside from both having sand, anyway.

  32. I doubt you're in the military by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I'm a navy vet, and I was smart enough to know how vital protecting oil supplies is. Most ships run on oil. Most military equipment runs on various refined petroleum products. Most civilian technology uses refined petroleum products as ingredients, in the manufacturing processes, and/or in transportation. Even if the US was entirely petroleum-free (not actually possible in the real world) we'd STILL have to be deeply involved in protecting free commerce (keeping the sea lanes open, etc) because we'd still have allies and enemies who depend on the stuff. We burn oil making thins, moving things and powering things. We use oil in plastics. We lubricate nearly every mechanical thing that moves with petroleum (yes, including parts in nuclear plants and wind turbines). Nobody born in the past hundred years even knows how to live without petroleum, and certainly no modern economy can work without it... we cannot even manufacture solar panels without using petroleum.

    One thing I am truly tired of, however, is the "perfumed princes" in the pentagon who've never worn a uniform while going in harm's way and who blow with the political winds emanating from their community organizing masters' mouths as they waste billions of dollars on things like algea fuels (making us buy $60.00+ per gallon fuel) in the name of being "green" so some big-money political donor hacks in San Francisco (who also have never worn a uniform) will fund more cash into their campaigns. This sort of garbage leads to a military budget that seems huge but is insufficient to meet the mandates and treaty obligations that are in place. If we are going to spend billions in the military fighting global warming, then we ought to at least be freed from spending billions defending our morally-superior liberal "allies". They ought to be freed to move billions from their superior national health and retirement programs into their armed forces and relieved of the need to talk down to us for not providing such generous things to our citizens. Oh, and before we buy one more gallon of algea fuel, we ought to spend this apprently surplus money on eliminating the backlog for medical care at the VA.

    1. Re:I doubt you're in the military by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Hi, I'm an asshole who will destroy any country that gets in the way of oil demands. Even if it means murdering your family for no reason whatsoever."

      Fuck off you mindless naval/corporate dick sucking faggot.

  33. minor corrections by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Republican? Yes, but of the wishy-washy sort often referred to as a "Rino". SecDef Hagel was one of those Republicans who had no particular political compass and no core political ideaology beyond getting re-elected to a comfortable job.

    Vietnam vet? Yes. He served with honor, but remember that he was a rather junior enlisted guy. There's ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with that, BUT it is not a strategic leadership position; we're not talking Eisehower, MacArthur, Patton,Nimitz, etc. Hagel would have been an abolutely perfect man to lead the VA and, as a soldier, see to it that the the VA was treating soldiers properly. The SecDef, on the other hand, really needs to be a guy with a strategic vision and and a view of the world and the threats therein as seen from orbit. The best guys for SecDef are generally guys who've run huge bureaucracies (titans of industry, or generals/admirals). It's a bit like NASA - the best administrators (like James Webb) have NOT been former astronauts or flight directors but men who knew how to make huge institutions move efficiently for a common purpose.

    As a "moderate" in congress, Hagel had no strong views to sell out. He has, indeed, shaped himself into the ideological pretzel needed to fit into the Obama administration and I'll bet you cannot name a single Obama policy he has opposed.

  34. Re:The Pentagon is more important than climate cha by c6gunner · · Score: 2

    The better question would be why is pure flamebait getting modded informative?

  35. Re:The Pentagon is more important than climate cha by Mashiki · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Don't worry. When the guys at ABC, MSNBC, and CBS all have someone who works either for, or under the current administration in some form you're going to run into problems. People like to complain about Bush and all that, but under Obama it's been a run of "how can we bury this to protect our guy." At least under Bush they were willing to actually be reporters.

     

    --
    Om, nomnomnom...
  36. Re:Nothing new, CC identified as threat long ago . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The point you miss is that the developed world has the resources to mitigate problems to some degree, unlike the developing world. Its not a matter of being immune, its a matter of having options.

  37. flooding of bases by confused+one · · Score: 1

    Navy is having to consider what's going to happen as sea level inches upwards. At Norfolk (the largest naval base on the East Coast) and the surrounding communities, we're seeing a measurable increase in flooding, particularly in the past two decades. Most of the area is less than 20 feet above mean low tide. Storms like Isabel, which brought 12 feet of storm surge with it, show the area is at risk. It's possible that the base will be under water at some point, possibly within a century if IPCC estimates are correct (a long time, to be sure). That's a serious concern that they would be foolish not to begin planning for.

  38. Re:Nothing new, CC identified as threat long ago . by 12WTF$ · · Score: 2

    Recent example:
    Climate change --> drought in Syria --> crop failures --> population movement to cities -->
    Ass-hat regime pushes population to rebellion --> civil war --> [...] --> Islamic State.

    --
    Cryonics - Keep cool and carry on.
  39. It's always, ALWAYS "defense" by musth · · Score: 1

    "It casts a wider eye towards how a changing climate will affect defense missions in the future."

    Tech people have a special obligation to quit using this Orwellian euphemism when talking about the US military.

    1. Re:It's always, ALWAYS "defense" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In Amerika, all military missions are defense missions.

  40. Re:The Pentagon is more important than climate cha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When the guys at ABC, MSNBC, and CBS all have someone who works either for, or under the current administration in some form

    Not just the administration; powerful people have perfused through the entire U,S. government. (As for ABC, MSNBC, and CBS; I can think of at least one more that deserves to be on that list.)

  41. Re:The Pentagon is more important than climate cha by Jeremi · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Is that parody or is that news? I cannot believe that one-sided, war-mongering, short-sighted propaganda piece is called 'News'.

    Personally I'm in great anticipation of the upcoming flag day, when some particularly onerous climate-change related events (e.g. the permanent evacuation of Miami, or perhaps just food shortages due to widespread crop failures) occur, and Fox News shifts seamlessly from denying the existence of global warming to blaming the Democrats for not having done enough to prevent it. Good times.

    --


    I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
  42. Re:The Pentagon is more important than climate cha by MillionthMonkey · · Score: 1

    Why is it flamebait? (It got modded as flamebait but went back up to a 5). This video is two years old, but that's the new guy who's now going to head the Environment and Public Works Committee in 2015. He's already bragging that his staff is been poring over NSF studies to compile a list of "wasteful studies" to be targeted in 2015, and says that one of his "top three priorities" for that committee is going to be âoeshining a lightâ on wasteful funding of climate scientists.

  43. More details in by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    More details in really great podcast (from a bit before...)
    http://gwynnedyer.com/radio/

  44. Re:Climate change will eventually be accepted by a by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    if you want to make money from the repairing effects of climate change then the last thing you want is for the govenment to take action to prevent climate change.

  45. Re:The Pentagon is more important than climate cha by Carewolf · · Score: 1

    Is that parody or is that news? I cannot believe that one-sided, war-mongering, short-sighted propaganda piece is called 'News'.

    Personally I'm in great anticipation of the upcoming flag day, when some particularly onerous climate-change related events (e.g. the permanent evacuation of Miami, or perhaps just food shortages due to widespread crop failures) occur, and Fox News shifts seamlessly from denying the existence of global warming to blaming the Democrats for not having done enough to prevent it. Good times.

    They don't need to shift. Fox News is perfectly capable of denying it exists, blaming the Democrats for it, and blaming the Democrats for not doing enough about it, all the same time from the same speaking head. That wouldn't even be anything unusual, we call that day Tuesday.

  46. Global warming by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So... climate change and its consequential global warming is the new enemy eh? Will this be another Cold War?

  47. Re:The Pentagon is more important than climate cha by delt0r · · Score: 1

    If the news you get makes you stupid... it is because you are stupid.

    --
    If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
  48. old news from early in the millennia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  49. Re:Nothing new, CC identified as threat long ago . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    you need to say that to signal yourself as a denialist, part of a group of crazy people who believe other crazy people over credible scientists.

  50. Joe Biden for 2016 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Joe Biden is a square shooter. Joe Biden for 2016.

    1. Re:Joe Biden for 2016 by TwoEyedJack · · Score: 0

      Who shoots at squares? Clay targets and paper bullseyes are generally circles. And Biden's advise on shooting borders on the moronic.

  51. Re:The Pentagon is more important than climate cha by dywolf · · Score: 4, Informative

    and that idiot just got re-elected to the senate, where he will now be in charge of the Environment and Public Works Committe, giving him direct oversight of the EPA, an agency he wants to kill.

    he is the single worst science denier in the congress now that Broun is gone.
    he thinks Michael Cricton is a climate expert. no seriously, he called him as a "expert" witness at a committee hearing.
    he thinks the earth hasnt warmed. at all. in fact he says its the world's greatest hoax.
    he thinks scientists are secretive liars engaged in a conspiracy and wants to "shine a light” on scientist’s activities.
    he said that AGW is a myth because...the bible:

    The Genesis 8:22 that I use in there is that ‘as long as the earth remains there will be seed time and harvest, cold and heat, winter and summer, day and night.’ My point is, God’s still up there. The arrogance of people to think that we, human beings, would be able to change what He is doing in the climate is to me outrageous."

    The man is dangerous....who who is more foolish?
    the fool? or the fools that all voted overwhelmingly for him?

    --
    The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
  52. Re:The Pentagon is more important than climate cha by dywolf · · Score: 1

    Sorry that is not factually true.

    --
    The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
  53. Next on Climate Change (TM) News! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Climate Change FUD, BE AFRAID, ZOMG EVEN THE MILITARY IS AFRAID!
    Stay tuned to climatechange.slashdot.org for your up to the second FUD about Climate Change!!!!

  54. Re:The Pentagon is more important than climate cha by rioki · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I would rather put it an other way, if you only hear one side of the story and you can't really be bothered to research the subject, why should you have an other opinion? Do you know how boring most news is? The special problem in the US is that it appears that there is collusion between news sources. In most western countries there are multiple news sources, yes they all push an agenda to a certain degree, but they are in competition. In addition a well informed individual will look at multiple news sources from different countries. But in the US, unless you really go out of your way you will not get different points of view, because the same point of view will be parroted over and over. Most people do not want to spend that mental effort...

  55. Never go full retard. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Alarmists
    Going full retard since 1988.

  56. Re:The Pentagon is more important than climate cha by PPalmgren · · Score: 0

    Is this what you really beleive is going to happen? An immediate evacuation of major cities over a short period of time?

    Its this kind of alarmism that is ruining the good discussions and actions that can be had on climate change. "Stop the press and focus everything on stopping climate change or the apocalypse is going to happen" is garbage and results in nothing getting done. Do you seriously beleive human ingenuity isn't going to be able to account and plan for a small sea level change over the span of decades or centuries to prevent a major city from becoming uninhabitable? We've had cities below sea level for several hundred years, a small and SLOW change in sea level isn't going to be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

  57. It's all Dr. Evil's doing! by MagickalMyst · · Score: 1

    Al Gore said the polar ice caps would be gone by 2013 due to climate change.

    But they are still there! How can this be? Mr. Gore is a politician; he CAN'T possibly be wrong!

    There is only one explanation - Dr. Evil is behind it all.

    "Hmm.. Let's see... (rubs hands together)... Imposing a global carbon tax and launching a massive military campaign to "fight" global warming should do it...

    Now there's just the problem with the non-believers - who are obviously unpatriotic tin-foil hat wearing terrorists; conspiracy kooks who refuse to do their part or think of the children. Two words for them - 'Guantanamo Bay' ".

    --
    Political correctness is really just herd psychology pushed by insecure people who desperately seek social conformity.
  58. Re:The Pentagon is more important than climate cha by microbox · · Score: 1

    How is that tinfoil hat rant insightful?

    --

    Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
  59. Re:The Pentagon is more important than climate cha by microbox · · Score: 3, Informative

    He didn't say "immediate evacuation". Learn to read. At some stage in the future -- our children's future -- there will be ocean where Miami is. So there will be a permanent evacuation. Probably after some storm surge or king tide. Dummy.

    --

    Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
  60. Seriously? Find a better reason by TrentTheThief · · Score: 1

    Come on, Lasrick, haven't you heard that aircraft carriers don't need "facilities" from which to launch bomb strikes? Or that the B2/B52/F117 aircraft are more than capable of flying from the US to any damned place in the world to drop a bomb? Mid-air refueling and all that....

    If you want credibility, don't spout inanities.

    1. Re:Seriously? Find a better reason by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      I suppose I should mention that a carrier group is far more expensive than an island airbase, and can't have anywhere near the time on station. Also, that there are great advantages in having aircraft near the front as opposed to having to send them on day-long missions, or that many missions are best done by smaller aircraft that aren't actually transcontinental.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    2. Re:Seriously? Find a better reason by TrentTheThief · · Score: 1

      Can't spend time on station? Seriously?

      There is a reason that aircraft carriers are the first choice for applying force when long-term force is required.

      I've spent six months at a time tooling around in the Arabian Sea. I know of at least one year-long cruise by the Nimitz where they spent about 5 days in-port (crew relief was the only reason they went off station). American aircraft carriers are refueled, rearmed, and resupplied by a massive fleet of auxiliary stores vessels capable of delivering anything, including an entire fighter (granted, I only saw the fighter thing happen once), fuel, munitions, stores, spares, and personnel. The only reason that an undamaged (combat or in-service events: fire/accident, collision, storm) carrier needs to be rotated off station is for crew relief. A carrier is quite capable of sailing for years at a stretch without docking. It's not practical, though, since the crew would be batshit crazy by then. But that's why we have plenty of them.

      The actual operating expenses attributed to a fleet at sea is a moot. Those ships, crews, and aircraft would be sailing/flying somewhere, in any event. The additional expenses attributed to combat operations are identical no matter where the aircraft are based. Fuel to fly, munitions to deliver. Those would be present no matter the situation.

      Day-long inter-continental missions (for one-offs or small-scale ops) are fine and actually better creating a nearby land base since that obviates the necessity of creating the required maintenance facilities (including the specialized (by aircraft type) maintenance equipment and supporting systems) as well as secure, sheltered bunkers for aircraft and facilities for crew and support people. Those are major expenditures. Modern aircraft require sophisticated electronics that aren't repaired by simply tossing the box on an electronics bench and poking around with meters and scopes. Many systems require multi-million dollar automated testing systems that utilize computers to perform the actual testing and troubleshooting (not all of it, just the long dull portion). In some cases, flight data computers, for example, complete manual testing could take weeks, while the CAT systems can complete the same testing during a single shift (or so). In addition to the electronics, there is the matter of support equipment for the mechanical systems (electrical, engines, hydraulic), ground support equipment, specialized stands and racks to handle engines/fuselage sections/wings.

      And that doesn't even touch on the personnel aspects. Housing for crews, maintenance teams, medical, support staff.

      In essence, setting up an new land facility as opposed to using a existing carrier or mounting an inter-continental strike is too expensive.

      As shown by your reply, you don't actually understand mechanics of airstrikes or the application of tactical/strategic air power from sea-based platforms. There are quite a few long-service vets on Slashdot who won't hesitate to pounce on uninformed comments.

      tl;dr: It's no simple or inexpensive task to support aircraft in the field. Aircraft carriers can loiter and prosecute an action for longer than you'd be willing to stay at sea cooped up, seeing the same couple dozen people 24/7. Aircraft carriers or inter-continental strikes are usually the best way to proceed unless you're gearing up for a very long, very large forward action (think invading another country, not a NATO action like Kosovo).

    3. Re:Seriously? Find a better reason by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      The original comment was about losing land for land air bases, as I remember. Aircraft carriers and land bases serve somewhat different functions.

      Sure, you can park a carrier somewhere for a long time. It can move there fairly fast, much faster than we could build a land base. It then needs relief every so often, if only for the crew's sake. In the meantime, we have ten carriers in the Fleet, and they won't all be available at the same time, so by keeping an aircraft carrier on station we're losing flexibility elsewhere. If we're going to need an airbase there for a long time, we might just want to build an airbase and free up the carrier group.

      We really don't need forward airbases for strategic bombing, but there's advantages to having tactical bombers and fighters close, should we need them.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    4. Re:Seriously? Find a better reason by TrentTheThief · · Score: 1

      Very true. But there have been many times the US has had two thirds of the carriers deployed, and that was when we had had that "600-ship" Navy. While there are ten carriers active, Heck, the JFK, Ranger, Kitty Hawk, and the Indy could all be back in the game in less than a year if necessary. As always, the primary issue is manning.

      I think long-range strategic aircraft will hold the day until sub-orbitals come into play. After that, the aircraft carrier will quickly lose relevance. And once laser/particle weapons live in those sub-orbitals, carriers and long-range aircraft will both become irrelevant.

      But don't sell carriers them short just yet. It's not often done, but carrier aircraft can strike targets over a thousand miles away. Not with the strength they have hitting a nearby target, but enough to let the target know they've been seriously kissed. Deeply frenched, in fact. By something with a _really_ sharp tongue.

      UAV's will extend the carrier's usefulness and lifespan, but I have no idea how far.

  61. Re:The Pentagon is more important than climate cha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because it's true.

    But racist 0 voters will never admit it.

  62. Global Cooling, Warming, Climate Change? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

    So the "ice age is coming" of the 1970s becomes "global warming" in the 1980s/90s and has now morphed into "climate change" because the warming stopped 14-18 years ago. So is the military prepared for colder weather? "Climate Change" is so nice because they won't have to change their scam's name every time the climate does something they don't expect .... like CHANGE! For goodness sake climate is always changing and humans for all their arrogance have very little to do with it. Urban heat island is proven and CO2 might have a 1 degree C change for each doubling.

    A question for everyone who thinks that CO2 controls the climate. How long with rising CO2 and flat or falling temperatures before you admit your theory is wrong? 20 years? 30? Never?

    All 5 of the major datasets (RSS, UAH, HadCRUT4, GISS, NCDC) show no warming for between 14 and almost 18 years. In that time CO2 has risen 8-10%.

    Here are 2 predictions. First I predict that CO2 will continue to increase because China and other countries don't care about CO2. They don't even care about real pollutants much less CO2. Second I predict it will get colder over the next 20-30 years. Why?

    Dr Libby in the 1970s said that "looking forward it will stay cold until the mid 80s (it did), then it will warm by about 1/4 degree F until the end of the century it did), then it gets cold". When asked how cold she was predicting a 1-2 degree F drop with an outside chance of a 3-4 degree drop.

    Dr Easterbrook in 2001 said the PDO was done it's positive warm cycle and that we were in for 25-30 years of cold weather. How cold? We have his good, bad and ugly predictions based on previous negative cold phases of the PDO.

    Why do I join with them and side with their predictions? While past performance is not a guarantee of future correctness it is a lot better record than the IPCC and their dozens of models of which none have been accurate. They are all based on CO2 controlling the climate and the other 3 are all cyclical
    natural cycles. I'll go with those who have a good track record at predicting future climate. Dr Libby is the most impressive as her prediction is 30+ years going and still accurate.

    If you want to read a great explanation of why the IPCC models are broken beyond belief there was a great article describing that and all the other problems with climate science by Dr Brown of Duke university

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/10/06/real-science-debates-are-not-rare/

    1. Re:Global Cooling, Warming, Climate Change? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Alarmists don't care about empirical evidence.

      They base their arguments on 'when they were children' everything was different'...

      It's like, no shit retard!

      What do you think climate change is?

      And then they give you the '95% answer' which is meaningless since anyone in their right mind knows that the IPCC reports are written by politicians which completely ignores reasoning behind any of the studies nor the physical evidence which completely contradicts all of their models.

      Whatever though, this billion dollar effort to strengthen the wealth gap will win in the end irregardless of the level of ignorance by the general populace.

  63. Re:The Pentagon is more important than climate cha by lsatenstein · · Score: 1

    Why are we spending so much money on satellites? We could have bought a couple Cold War fighter jets that will never be used and that explode on liftoff!

    Is that parody or is that news? I cannot believe that one-sided, war-mongering, short-sighted propaganda piece is called 'News'. It packs more lies, ridicule, non sequiturs, and manipulation into three minutes than I've even seen before. Are people really expected watch that and then form their own opinions? If that is how Americans get their news, it explains so much about American ignorance, xenophobia, and thirst for war.

    Aren't you understating what the Americans receive from Fox, CBS, NBC, etc? Americans are for the most part, kept ignorant about whats happening outside of the football or baseball field.

    --
    Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
  64. Denialism is much worse than Alarmism by Mr_Wisenheimer · · Score: 2

    There is an age-old adage; you're not paranoid if someone is actually out to get you.

    In predicting climate change, there are always the best-case scenarios and the worst case scenarios.

    And, there is always intentional ignorance, like denying the reality that climate change has the potential to cause, "an immediate evacuation of major cities over a short period of time."

    We built our major manufacturing and population centers based on the stable climate that had existed for thousands of years. A huge chunk is situated near sea-level. Look at the United States. Every major city except for Chicago (San Francisco, Boston, New York, Los Angeles, DC) is threatened by rising sea levels, as well as plenty of minor cities such as Houston and Seattle. A huge chunk of the population lives and works in areas that are near sea level.

    Surges that may have caused minor damages in the past, especially the huge surges that can be caused by hurricanes and earthquakes will be more likely to utterly devastate these areas in the future, due to the rising sea levels. This could easily necessitate the evacuation of a major population center such as Manhattan or Boston, similar to what happened in New Orleans during Katrina.

    So yeah, if it is "alarmist" to plan for worst-case scenarios, then I will proudly wear that badge, because it is not paranoid to plan for something that will probably happen somewhere at some point in the future due to climate change. If New Orleans and the federal government had taken an "alarmist" position on New Orleans's potential for storm-surge flooding, then a lot more people would still be alive today.

    I would rather not be the guy playing my fiddle and yelling out, "you guys are all alarmists" when the world starts to burn.

    1. Re: Denialism is much worse than Alarmism by PPalmgren · · Score: 2

      I realize the worst case scenarios he was mentioning were in reference to storm surges, the problem is the lack of reality in the suggestions to stop climate change. Its already happening and sea levels will likely go up 2 feet by 2100. Here's where it gets tricky: amortize the cost of mitigating disaster in these areas to those 84 years. Its called levees, its not that hard, its expensive, but not nearly as expensive as the alternative.

      The alternative is to turn back time, because we dont have the technology or global consensus to stop climate change. Imagining anything else is living in fantasy land. There are countries who have a vested interest in economic growth for stability (china, brazil), countries who would actually benefit from climate change (russia), countries whose very livelihood is tied up in the current demands (OPEC). nothing that will prevent the sea level from rising till 2100 will succeed unless all parties involved cooperate.

      So, next option: we lead by example and exert pressure. Doing so requires the countries that do so to sacrifice their economic growth without guarantee that it will slow down the change because developing countries are ramping up their economies on dirty coal and oil. if anything, it stagnates co2 at the cost of the world economic growth.

      why is economic growth so important? Because the best way to deal with climate change is to outcompete fossil fuels. development in fusion, fission, solar, wind, and geothermal are a must. We can't get rid of a significant portion of fuel use anyway until we get compact baseload level power for freighters, so advances in power production or storage are vital to stemming fuel usage. overly punitive approaches to mitigating climate change only result in less ability to react should our predictions be wrong. it is also worth noting that one of the first things to go in tough times is R&D, so implementing onerous restrictions on ourselves could cause damage as well.

      look at how far we've come in 100 years in terms of tech and as a society. some of the things we can do today like large building projects take fractions of manpower, time, and effort to acheive. hell, we were barely just flying and driving 100 years ago. where will we be in 50 years? Probably in a better position to manage the issue than we are now. Even if we arent? We can still build those damn levees for far less than the cost of implementing heavy restrictions now. I have confidence in human ability to adapt and engineer out of our problems.

      now, 'worst case' predictions might happen so we should prepare? This is what i have a problem with. You sound like a doomsday prepper. I doubt you build bunkers and several year stockpiles because there might be a global war in the future, do you? Thats what the alarmist argument sounds to anyone with a decent grasp on the time scales involved. Im not saying we shouldnt implement reachable goals to help slow things down, but the drastic requests of many proponents are just assinine and ruin good potential results. you have to factor in the lack of control countries have on a global scale, the momentum already behind things as they are, and the damage that mitigation efforts will have to the current and future economy. it only serves to distract from real efforts that can be done.

    2. Re: Denialism is much worse than Alarmism by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      How do you use levees in a port? A certain amount of the infrastructure and functionality of port cities depends on being open to whatever the heck sea level is. You could barricade off the port, I guess, but that's going to cause its own problems.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    3. Re: Denialism is much worse than Alarmism by Mr_Wisenheimer · · Score: 1

      Based on the evidence, I do not believe that market-driven solutions will work, because the solutions are long term (over many generations) but almost all profit-driven corporations focus on short-term returns to their current shareholders.

      For instance, in terms of cost per kilowatt hour, solar solutions are usually within one standard deviation of the market-cost for electricity. However, no for-profit utility has expressed any interest in developing the massive infrastructure to take our electrical grid into the future and allow for effective deployment of a full solar solution. Only central planning is likely to accomplish that.

      History has shown that "the market" has never been effective at stopping corporations from creating dangerous hazards, especially ones that manifest themselves diffusely over the long term.

      Also, I would be interested in the source of your claim that the cost of mitigating damage due to global warming would be greater than the cost of reigning in carbon emissions today. Every credible source I have seen has strongly suggested the opposite. Places that have passed strong carbon regulations have not experienced any significant change in economic growth relative to those that continue to pollute (to the best of my knowledge) and the figures I have seen for the probable costs associated with sea-level rises alone is astronomical.

      In fact, by most estimates I have seen, the cost of building infrastructure to protect occupied or industrially useful areas from rising sea levels far exceeds the cost of simply abandoning homes, factories, farms, bridges, roads, et cetera. Only in very dense urban areas will mitigating factors like seawalls be worth the costs and, even there, it is likely that many homes and businesses will simply be written off as hundreds of trillions of dollars in economic losses as the cost of mitigation exceeds the value of the real estate.

  65. Re:Nothing new, CC identified as threat long ago . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But thats not climate! Thats weather!

  66. The enemy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So now they tell us the enemy is climate change. I think the left hand is confused as the military is so involved in changing our climate as to make the whole thing silly beyond comprehension. How do the worldwide fleets of sprayers do what they do without at least a wink and a nod from the military

    1. Re:The enemy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you actually believe man controls the climate?

  67. Re:The Pentagon is more important than climate cha by c6gunner · · Score: 1

    Why is it flamebait?

    Because it's obviously off-topic, worded in a way that's intentionally incorrect and hopelessly hyperbolic, and evidently meant to evict an emotional response. It's the intellectual equivalent of saying "Hurr Durr, FOX is teh dumb and Micro$$$oft maeks crappy computers!". The article is about the military trying to plan for global warming, but you're taken it as an opportunity to slag random talking heads on the news and Lockheed Martin all in one stroke.

    Or did you mean "why am I posting flamebait"? I'm not sure about the answer to that one, but I assume it's because you have nothing interesting to say about the actual article but are lonely and want someone to argue with. Was there some other reason which I'm not seeing?

  68. So... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...the military is planning against the off chance that the overwhelming majority of climate scientists aren't all liars and/or fools?

  69. Re:The Pentagon is more important than climate cha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because it's obviously off-topic

    RTFA, dickhead!

  70. Re:Nothing new, CC identified as threat long ago . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You clearly don't know what climate change is.

    Climate change is constant.

    It is always changing and has been changing ever since the Earth had an atmosphere.

    What you brainwashed fools fail to recognize is that natural disasters have been around just as long as the Earth has had a climate and the 'empirical evidence' proves this...but of course you numb skulls will believe anything you read by politicians.

  71. Re:The Pentagon is more important than climate cha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Any respectable climatologist will tell you that global cooling and global warming occurs simultaneously in different parts of the world depending on various environmental/atmospheric/celestial factors.

    They'll also tell you that our climate has been changing ever since the Earth grew an atmosphere but for whatever reason, the politicians who wrote the IPCC reports will try to convince you that man controls the weather...Which is like saying we control Sun, the climate of our solar system, and that we have the technology to avoid particularly dangerous areas within our own galaxy as so to avoid certain galactic forces that would destabilize our climate here on Earth.

  72. Re:The Pentagon is more important than climate cha by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

    No, that's not news. Fox News is unbiased. That's an opinion piece designed to look like news. Those taken in confuse editorial opinions for news. But nobody calls that News, not even Fox News. Well, their viewers call it news, but only the dumb ones. We are still struggling to find a non-dumb one, though.

  73. Re:The Pentagon is more important than climate cha by Mashiki · · Score: 1

    Really? How many people from the various news agencies have someone either directly or indirectly working at the Whitehouse these days, or in the recent 6 years. You've got the presidents of ABC and CBS who have relatives who work there. You've got Carney who's married to a ABC news contributor, though he's no longer there. Yeah the list goes on, and on, and on.

    Speaking of which, when was the last time you heard the media trot out the "deaths of american soldiers in Iraq/Afghanistan" bit? I'll bet it was right about the time Bush Jr., left office. Of course the reporting just happened to be no longer news worthy right? Or that in the last 6 years under Obama he's accumulated ~70% of the total deaths of Americans since the entire series of wars started in that region.

    Damn those facts.

    --
    Om, nomnomnom...
  74. Ah, yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The typical left-wing intellectual counter-argument

    I see you have studied dabate at Oxford...[sigh]

  75. Re:The Pentagon is more important than climate cha by Gruff+2005 · · Score: 1

    Want to defend Fox "news"?

  76. Re:The Pentagon is more important than climate cha by davester666 · · Score: 1

    why haven't we declared a "war on earth" yet? it totally deserves it for what it's done to us.

    --
    Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
  77. Re:The Pentagon is more important than climate cha by lazy+genes · · Score: 0

    It is a perfect world. The problems are illusions. We are still in the early stages of evolution, the goal is to adapt to a changing environment.