How Alibaba Turned November 11 Into the World's Biggest Online Shopping Day

hackingbear writes Bummed that you're home alone on date night, or stuck in your mom's basement, yet again? Don't worry. A new gadget or some scuba gear could help. Observed on November 11 — or "11.11," for the date with the most 1s — Singles Day, which started out as a joke among a group of male college students attending Nanjing University in the 1990s, has become the world's biggest online shopping day, thanks to the e-commerce prowess of China's Alibaba Group. On this day last year, they sold twice what all US companies sold on Black Friday and Cyber Monday combined. This year, Alibaba has decided to take its 11.11 promotions worldwide, highlighting global brands including online jewelry store Blue Nile, clothing brand Juicy Couture, and even Costco. Amazon has tried to get a piece of the action. The Seattle-based company launched promotions for the holiday last year on its Chinese site, and it's done so again this year.

Comments

Good luck in Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

Obviously just about any date you can pick is probably going to have some importance _somewhere_ in the world. This time it just happens to be Canada.

November 11'th is Remembrance Day (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remembrance_Day) here in Canada, and unlike many of our holidays, this is actually one that most Canadians do take seriously.

Re:Good luck in Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

First, November 11th is significant in more than just Canada. All Commonwealth Nations mark Remembrance Day on November 11th. It's also known as Veteran's Day in the US. Several European countries also observe a day of remembrance on November 11th.

None of which has anything to do with preventing people for shopping, especially online. Just like many people go shopping on Sundays. Maybe you don't remember it, but I certainly do, there was a time when no stores were open on Sundays. Go ask your parents.

Re:Good luck in Canada

[aevan]

Sundays? Even Saturday was a crapshot..opening at lunch for a few hours. And weekdays? Good luck if you get off work at 1700h, 'cuz they might as well rolled up the streets while they were at it...things were closed. Go find a 7-11 or something if you need groceries. Not that you had money because, you know, 'banking hours'.

Re:Good luck in Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

...and unlike many of our holidays, this is actually one that most Canadians do take seriously.

But what does it actually mean to take a war holiday seriously? In every war, at least one side was wrong.

A simplified narrative of WWI is that the hereditary ruling class in Europe sent millions of commoners to utterly pointless deaths. Is the fundamental message then that commoners need to be careful not to be duped and exploited by the hereditary ruling class? The USA was founded to be a government of the (common) people, by the (common) people, for the (common) people. So should we in the USA "celebrate" war holidays by making rude gestures in the general direction of the British royal family?

War holidays often focus on soldiers and veterans. But what about the soldiers that fought on the wrong side? Are they villains, or fools, or victims? And how do we even know which side(s) were the wrong sides. Was the US war on Iraq basically a banana republic war to benefit a small number of corporate cronies of the Bush administration? Are the soldiers who fought in that war heroes or corporate mercenary war criminals?

When Canadians take war holidays "seriously" do they really think hard about such questions? Or do they merely do some pompous flag waving and consider the matter settled?

Re:Good luck in Canada

[camperdave]

In every war, at least one side was wrong.

War doesn't decide who is right. It only decides who is left.

In Canada, Remembrance Day is a solemn day, full of reflection and recognition of the price Canada has paid for peace. It's definitely not a pompous flag waving day because Canada doesn't go to war to crush her enemies. Canada doesn't start wars. It ends them. We have committed more troops to UN peacekeeping efforts than any other country. As such, I think when Canadians do consider the deaths of enemy soldiers it is with sympathy rather than with Schadenfreude.

Re:Good luck in Canada

[palemantle]

Canada doesn't start wars. It ends them. We have committed more troops to UN peacekeeping efforts than any other country.

Sorry for nitpicking - and I'm really not trying to trivialize any country's peace contributions - but I can't find anything to back up this claim. Canada doesn't even seem to be in the top ten in terms of troop contributions.

I've checked:

• google
• UN's site

Re:Good luck in Canada

[nukenerd]

War holidays often focus on soldiers and veterans. But what about the soldiers that fought on the wrong side? Are they villains, or fools, or victims? And how do we even know which side(s) were the wrong sides.

Firstly, I do not know what you mean by a "war holiday". A USA thing? There is no "war holiday" in the UK, just ceremonies on 11.11, and also the nearest Sunday. I agree that a holiday does not sound appropriate.

As for the soldiers on the losing side, as I live in a country that was on the "winning" side in both WWs, I have no idea what they do in countries on the "losing" side. There is nothing to stop them remembering their dead too. AFAIK, cemeteries of German dead in France and Belgium are treated with respect.

I cannot see whether the right side won or not comes into it. That issue is not raised in the UK ceremonies; it entirely about remembering the dead. But generally it is assumed that the "right" side always wins in history, because they wrote the history books and whitewashed the dirt. Just look at the invective raised if anyone suggests Hitler was right (this is not Godwin, because this thread is about the WWs). Yet because Stalin "won" WWII, it was not until two generations later that it was recognised fully what a shite he was, probably worse than Hitler, but we will never fully know.

Re:Good luck in Canada

[XB-70]

More like... Ali Boo-Boo ..and it's Veterans Day in the United States.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veterans_Day

Insensitive clods.

Re:Good luck in Canada

[Mr. Slippery]

There is no "war holiday" in the UK, just ceremonies on 11.11, and also the nearest Sunday. I agree that a holiday does not sound appropriate.

If there are annual commemoration rituals on a day, ipso facto it's a holiday, at least in American usage of that word. For example "Mother's Day" is a holiday, though no businesses shut down or anything. (See, e.g.,https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother%27s_Day#Founding_.28US.29 ) Perhaps UK usage differs?

That issue is not raised in the UK ceremonies; it entirely about remembering the dead

It's meaningless to remember the dead without remembering why they died: a war between exploitative colonial powers to see who would get to fuck over which group of non-industrialized nations. We ought to honor the dead by working towards a world where people don't die and kill for the glory of the ruling class.

Re:Good luck in Canada

[camperdave]

First, You're looking at monthly stats for currently active missions. Second, Over the past several years, Canada's peacekeeping has largely been done through UN sanctioned NATO missions rather than directly through the UN itself. Third, sadly, since the mid 1990s. Canada has been reducing its peacekeeping role - which explains why Canada's numbers are so low.

Cumulatively Canada, has committed the most troops, over 125,000 altogether.

Am I the only one

[Anonymous Coward]

Who really, REALLY doesn't give a shit?

Re:Am I the only one

[Anrego]

Nope.

Alibaba seems extra sketchy. I get that a lot of people will go to great lengths to save a buck, but I'm probably one of the few that prefers dealing with somewhat reputable companies (a few do still exist).

Also as a Canadian shopping isn't really on my mind on Nov. 11.

Re:Am I the only one

[Anonymous Coward]

Alibaba is like eBay. If the seller doesn't ship what they were supposed to you can block the transfer and the seller won't see a dime. Buy from reputable sellers and you should be fine. Just keep in mind brand items selling for a tenth of what they usually do aren't exactly genuine.

I don't buy online since the postal service (or duties, not sure which) here started stealing everything I order other than books, but before then the only problem I had was buying a too cheap to be real microSD card and receiving what I paid for instead of what it was advertised as (8GB slow as fuck instead of 64GB, and of course it is modified to display 64GB).

Re:Am I the only one

[Anonymous Coward]

Alibaba is no more sketchy than ebay. They are just a front for sellers, and if you have any problem you can block payment.

Point is, Ali is HUGE. Bigger than Amazon and Ebay combined. They are the 500 pound gorilla of online retail. They have the size and the direct-to-producer network to steamroll Amazon. Ebay doesn't have a chance either: half the ebay stores are just import fronts for producers that you can buy directly from on Ali.

Re:Am I the only one

[BradMajors]

People buy on Alibaba in order to resell on ebay.

The advantage of buying on Alibaba is that you are buying directly from the Chinese supplier. The disadvantage is that the sellers on Alibaba are not as retail consumer orientated as ebay.

Re:Am I the only one

[Whiternoise]

Amazon is where you pay for books. Alibaba is where you pay someone to make the books. The comparison is apples to oranges meaningless, it's like saying that a butcher's wholesale market is worth more than a butcher because they sell more meat.

Alibaba isn't really a consumer site. You can use it as s consumer, for example to buy equipment like cheapo CNC machines or electronics manufacturing equipment, but that's not really the point. It's a wholesale superstore for businesses.

Re:Am I the only one

[stephanruby]

Alibaba seems extra sketchy. I get that a lot of people will go to great lengths to save a buck, but I'm probably one of the few that prefers dealing with somewhat reputable companies (a few do still exist).

Alibaba is mostly for business to business sourcing. Personally, I don't know any other reputable place where I can source custom electronics equipment from China.

Amazon doesn't do that. Ebay doesn't that. And I guess I could go on a Chinese manufacturer's web site to get something done, but without Alibaba, I have no idea where I could get started and how reliable a supplier is going to be. Alibaba has just grown to be the default place where people go for that kind of thing. It's definitely not for everybody.

Re:Am I the only one

[intermelt]

No one is referring to alibaba.com when they speak of Alibaba. They are referring to the Alibaba Group which includes aliexpress.com and at least 5 other websites which are consumer based (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alibaba_Group#Companies_and_affiliated_entities). They are even the PayPal or maybe Authorize.net of China with AliPay.

so... alibaba.com - not consumer based
AliExpress.com - Consumer based, like Amazon or eBay
Taobao - Consumer bases, like Amazon or eBay
Tmall.com - Consumer based, Amazon like
Juhuasuan - Consumer based - like any daily deal site, think dx.com
eTao - consumer based comparison shopping, think Google shopping
Alipay - consumer/retailer based, AKA PayPal
Alibaba Cloud Computing - smells like Amazon
China Yahoo! - ya, they pretty much own Yahoo, and again consumer based
Aliwang - messaging app? consumer based.
ChinaVision Media Group - TV? consumer based
Youku Tudou - seems to be a Netflix, consumer based
11 Main - online mall, consumer based
Alibaba Group R&D institute - smells like Google, end user, consumer.

Seems pretty consumer based to me.

Que es "Date Night"

[russotto]

What is this "date night"? Does not every night have a date?

Re:Que es "Date Night"

[Austerity Empowers]

Not if you have kids... time loses meaning, each day mostly an olympic dash to microobjectives and periodic unconsciousness. Some people choose to fight the inevitable, by estbalishing a date night, sort of like a repository tag, to put a stake in the in shifting sea of time. On this date, the children are given to a baby sitter of dubious repute (sometimes chosen intentionally so) and the adults are set loose on the world.

On this night there is a date. There is no date on the quicksand of parenthood, but this is a date.

Re:Que es "Date Night"

[drinkypoo]

Parenthood sounds like it sucks. Have considered getting my sperm sack tubes nipped off to avoid it. Now that's intense.

I regret not doing it when I had insurance that would do it for fifty bucks. I haven't bred, but not breeding would have been more fun with no sperm

Chinese Black Friday

[Anonymous Coward]

If you have a billion people, then anything that goes viral goes viral fast.

That doesn't mean anyone elsewhere gets it.

11/11

[Anonymous Coward]

Hopefully for the Commonwealth-localized pages (UK, CA, AU, NZ) they'll put up a poppy for Remembrance Day:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remembrance_Day
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remembrance_poppy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Flanders_Fields

November 11th? Really?

[Rob Bos]

I'm a little offended that they chose Remembrance Day for their shopping extravaganza.

Re:November 11th? Really?

[dwywit]

I'd mod up you but I want to comment.

They'll get a rude shock if they try it in Australia.

Re:November 11th? Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

Alibaba is a Chinese group. China is not a part of the Commonwealth.

In China, 11/11 is Singles' Day, not Remembrance Day.

Re:November 11th? Really?

[tgeller]

Every date on the calendar is sacred to some group. It's impossible to choose a date that wouldn't conflict with anything.

Also, they apparently didn't choose it: It was a continuation of an earlier tradition. So blame those students.

Re:November 11th? Really?

[antdude]

They care not. Business take advantage of anything like the holidays. :(

Re:November 11th? Really?

[aevan]

You know, there is a really bad irony joke about that conflation.

Re:November 11th? Really?

[Ann Coulter]

11/11/11 was the release date for Skyrim.

Re:November 11th? Really?

[_merlin]

I dunno, David Jones has scheduled the launch of their Christmas sales for 11/11 this year. Go to any of their bigger stores tomorrow after 5PM for free champagne and snacks while you celebrate consumerism. No-one's protesting.

Re:November 11th? Really?

[hyades1]

So they're welcome to sell in China. Here, it is Remembrance Day, and they can fuck off.

Re:November 11th? Really?

[umafuckit]

Stop being offended. In China it's not remembrance day. They just like 11/11 because of the symmetry and because they're superstitious. There was chaos in 2011, because that was an even more awesome date.

Re:November 11th? Really?

[hyades1]

China needs North American markets. And they're very hot to get their hands on Canadian raw materials. Or are you such a fucking moron you hadn't noticed those small facts?

It is a lot more than just Canada

[Roger W Moore]

While the 11th Novemeber is remembrance day here in Canada you might want to remember that since it is to commemorate the end of the First World War it is also an important date for the entire Commonwealth and even the US has Veteran's Day. So, as days go, for a large number of countries this is actually a really bad one to select to celebrate rampant consumerism.

Re:It is a lot more than just Canada

[Austerity Empowers]

this is actually a really bad one to select to celebrate rampant consumerism.

Unlike the yearly observance of the notional birth of the messiah, or the day after a day intended to be used to express gratitude for the sacrifice of the pilgrims, or hte day that bunnies lay chocolate eggs and you actually eat them...

Really I'm not sure I know of a holiday that we haven't turned in to some sort of circus. Even memorial day is mostly about cooking meat on a grill, and the families of the people being honored are still around.

Let's just ignore it because it's China and Alibaba and not look for some excuse.

Re:It is a lot more than just Canada

[TheRealMindChild]

Even memorial day is mostly about cooking meat on a grill

Are not holidays, by there very definition, cause for celebration? What better way to celebrate than cooking dead animal on a fire?

Re:It is a lot more than just Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, sure. And Christmas is the birth of that one dude that flipped tables and stuff over people selling things.

Consumerism trumps all.

Re:It is a lot more than just Canada

[Austerity Empowers]

I think, particularly given the basis of memorial day, that the analogy is especially terrible.

Re:It is a lot more than just Canada

[MikeBabcock]

More or less what I was going to point out -- November 11th is about remembering those who've served their country in war.

Re:It is a lot more than just Canada

[penguinoid]

Are not holidays, by there very definition, cause for celebration?

Some peoples have holidays with fasting and lamentation. Very un-American, I'm sure.

Re:It is a lot more than just Canada

[fnj]

While the 11th Novemeber is remembrance day here in Canada you might want to remember that since it is to commemorate the end of the First World War it is also an important date for the entire Commonwealth [wikipedia.org] and even the US has Veteran's Day [wikipedia.org].

November 11 is (WW1) Armistice Day, that's what it is. The 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month. All this crap about changing the name and pretending that it is for honoring the sacrifice of all veterans of all wars is just that, crap. If, that is, you actually care about history.

Not that I don't grasp the point. You can't go marking the end of every war as a holiday. Before you know it, every day would be a holiday. And a lot of them were not won. It would be a painful reminder of all the sacrifices that were in vain.

But those people who make it their business to know history can honor veterans every day instead of pouring it all out on a single symbolic day and quickly getting back to "real life".

Re:It is a lot more than just Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

Christmas is also very non christian holiday. Bible says nothing about chrismas. Easter is the thing. Easter is actually the biggest celebration for christians all over. Some sects don't even recognize christmas. Christmas only exists because church had to take over the mid winter celebrations. Christmas tree is clearly a pagan thing. Ever wondered what the heck does santa have to do with jesus? Maybe because he hasn't he is way older. (excluding St.Nichols, who is actually not Santa, and who is religious character).

Re:It is a lot more than just Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

St.Nicolas is indeed a religious character but he replaces Wodan/Odin from the pagan Holliday. Santa Clause has very similar attributes as well.

Wodan/Odin:
- Wise old man
- Has two ravens who spy on people and whisper in his ear
- He keeps a naughty and nice list
- has a flying horse with 8 legs
- Gives runes (letters) to the people as gift on his birthday
- Shows a likeness to women of their next lover.

St. Nicolas/Sinterklaas (how it is celebrated in the Netherlands)
- Wise old man
- Has two black helpers (After the WW2 the number of helpers increased for a larger celebration), they still have feathers in their cap.
- He keeps a naughty and nice list.
- He has a white horse with 4 legs that can walk on roofs.
- Given chocolate letters, and some hard candy with letters on them
- There are also cookies with the likeness of a man on it.

Santa Clause
- Wise old man
- Has helpers in the form of elves.
- He keeps a naughty and nice list.
- He has a sleight which is pulled by flying raindeer.

Re:It is a lot more than just Canada

[Hognoxious]

A Chinese custom that is based on an English pun about a date in the European calendar?

Re:It is a lot more than just Canada

[K. S. Kyosuke]

It's a national public holiday in Poland, so I guess the shops are closed. :-D

Re:It is a lot more than just Canada

[nukenerd]

This is a Chinese custom, which is not part of the British Commonwealth.

RTFA :- "This year, Alibaba has decided to take its 11.11 promotions worldwide " [My emphasis]

Fine, in China.

But in a large part of that "worldwide", 11.11 is the date for remembering the dead of Wars from WW1 onwards. And those wars were not just about the British Commonwealth - that is what the "World" means in "World War". Even the Chinese were involved, actually. Tsingtao

A really really bad choice of day for a consumer promotion. It certainly won't work where I live. In the UK, 11.11 is not a holiday (that would not be appropriate), but is among the top four or five days of the year that has a special significance.

Re:It is a lot more than just Canada

[Dragonslicer]

A really really bad choice of day for a consumer promotion. It certainly won't work where I live.

It will work just fine in the U.S., unless there's a critical mass of racism and/or Communist scare. If television is anything to go by, the best time to purchase a new car is either Martin Luther King's birthday, Memorial Day, or Labor Day.

Re:It is a lot more than just Canada

[Dcnjoe60]

St. Nicholas was a real person. He was the Bishop of Myra. What has become the commercialized Christmas began relatively recently. Traditionally, December 25th was celebrated as the Nativity of the Lord and was not a big consumer celebration. That began in the Victorian Age, but was pretty mild compared to today. As for occurring at or near the winter solstice, that made sense because the Christ was supposed to bring light to the darkness. For things like evergreens being co-opted by from the pagans, well, yes people did that, but the Christmas Tree is not an official symbol of any Christian religion. Again, that really began in the Victorian Age, so blame the English, not religion.

Shop Alibaba and get EBOLA?

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't take the chance! Stay safe and shop AMERICAN.

I predict server overload

[__aanbvm4272]

Talk about test a system! Let's just see how much volume they can handle. I predict sewver overlord. er severe overload.

AliBaba's online outlet is called AliExpress.

[jdagius]

http://www.aliexpress.com/cate...

I've found it to be very friendly, with free shipping to the States on almost every purchase. Downside is that the free shipping goes through Singapore Post and takes a month or two to arrive here.

But the prices are really cheap, and customer support surprisingly good. Amazon had better watch out!

Platypus

[Anonymous Coward]

While nothing is obvious except in retrospect, we are seeing a marriage of western capitalism and collectivism that yields both humorous and strange offspring which may be the basis for much of the 21st century. Christmas may have driven consumerism in the latter 20th, but I suspect that we will see commercial and cultural traditions emerge and mutate at an accelerating rate.

I won't be part of this

[hyades1]

Here in Canada, November 11 is called "Remembrance Day". It's the one day of the year when we pay special attention to those who fell in service of our country.

So thanks anyway, Communist China. But shove your slimy promotions of your second-rate trash sideways up your ass.

Re:I won't be part of this

[tlhIngan]

Here in Canada, November 11 is called "Remembrance Day". It's the one day of the year when we pay special attention to those who fell in service of our country.

So thanks anyway, Communist China. But shove your slimy promotions of your second-rate trash sideways up your ass.

Not to mention in particular THIS Remembrance day has special attention due to the recent murders of two soldiers on Canadian soil. So much so that even regular retailers are seeing backlash for putting out Christmas decorations right after Halloween.

Sure, there's always a bit of backlash, but this time the story is particularly strong. Enough that poppies are actually running out of stock at various Legions.

Re:I won't be part of this

[hyades1]

Excellent comment.

I'm not one of those people who believe Remembrance Day should be used as a back door way to glorify current wars. It is, however, about remembering soldiers who gave their lives to help make Canada into a real country rather than just an overseas extension of Great Britain. We only give them one day. They shouldn't have to share it with greed-driven marketers and sheeple who care about nothing but their next new toy.

Re:I won't be part of this

[kramulous]

Could also be because this Remembrance Day marks 100 years of the start of World War I.

But sure, two soldiers killed is also significant.

Armistice Day

[rossdee]

On the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month the guns went silent.

I guess China wasn't in World War one

But its not quite so important in Australia and New Zealand, where the official day for honouring fallen military is ANZAC day 25th April

Re:Armistice Day

[lgftsa]

It's not a pubic holiday like ANZAC Day, but it's customary to observe a minute's silence wherever you may be at the time.

Re:Armistice Day

[kramulous]

Not true. We (Australia, and I'm guessing NZ as well) observe the minute silence, nation wide, in schools, workplaces and homes at 11am. It's a big thing here.

Re:Armistice Day

[kramulous]

Forgot to mention.

Anzac day is a big deal as well as Remembrance Day. But that is more that we acknowledge how our commonwealth masters dictated us to our mass slaughter on a foreign soil whom we didn't have a particular argument with. My great grandfather got a VC there but plenty other relatives died. We're all still in awe, anger and sad about it.

For what it is worth, I'm still for the Monarchy. Mainly because I don't trust an Australian in the position.

Post date

[jataktravel]

This post was made on November 9 about nov. 11, weird

Re:Post date

[f3rret]

This post was made on November 9 about nov. 11, weird

You realize that 11.11 happens about once a year, right?

Distracting discussion hides other things

[u27039008]

Whether or not the date is suitable is an irrelevant and time wasting debate that hides the real issue. What should be discussed instead is if the deceptive mechanisms used by this type of e-commerce should be considered as prowess, as the post mentions, or represents a rather bleak vision of the future of online consumerism. Looking at AliExpress for instance:

- ratings are not reliable: sellers constantly harass buyers to give them the highest rank, or provide extra goods/services or simply proper support in exchange for a better score;

- the products sold there are often the same quality of what ends up in one-dollar-shops, including some blatant clones and counterfeit products disguised by clever wording;

- the dispute system favours heavily the seller by demanding the buyer all sorts of documents and proofs that often takes more time to provide than what the broken/undelivered/unfit product is worth.

A quick search online into consumer forums will reveal to anyone doubting the above the submerged part of this consumerism glorification iceberg.

Alibaba / AliExpress.com – A concise definit

[Sir Holo]

Alibaba owns AliExpress.com So, what is AliExpress.com?

• * Imagine ebay, minus the peer-rating system.
• * Imagine an auction site, minus a functioning escrow system.
• * Imagine any online marketplace, minus a functioning conflict-resolution system (despite claims otherwise ).
• * It's the wild west.

In 20 years of internet buying, Ive been ripped off once – on AliExpress.com. After discussing it with several Chinese colleagues, each said basically the same thing: "Yeah, if you don't speak Mandarin, you're going to get ripped off there."

Wow, chromebooks for US$60 each (min 10)?

[Paul Fernhout]

http://www.alibaba.com/product...

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed. (William Gibson)"

What a revolution for global education (similar to the OLPC hope)!