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President Obama Backs Regulation of Broadband As a Utility

vivIsel writes In a move that is sure to generate controversy, the President has announced his support for regulation of broadband connections, including cellular broadband, under Title 2 of the Telecommunications Act. Reclassification of broadband in this way would treat it as a utility, like landline telephones, subject providers to new regulations governing access, and would allow the FCC to easily impose net neutrality requirements.

39 of 706 comments (clear)

  1. Obama by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Say what you want about Obama, but I guarantee the next president (probably Republican) won't care about preserving Net Neutrality.

    1. Re:Obama by AndrewBClark · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I disagree here. The CONSUMER is the one that uses the bandwidth, not the content provider. This is the equivalent to saying that Ford should pay for the impact to national highways since their deliverable is utilizing the highway more than other entities on the roadway.

    2. Re:Obama by Ferzerp · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Let me take that further.

      It would be like saying Ford should pay for highway maintenance while still funding it through gasoline taxes, etc as well. Additionally, the roads would never be maintained beyond the bare minimum and rarely if ever expanded, even though they are double funded.

      There is the car/road analogy that you were looking for.

    3. Re:Obama by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Say what you want about Obama, but I guarantee the next president (probably Republican) won't care about preserving Net Neutrality.

      I might be a tree hugging liberal, but the Dems have an awful record when it comes to regulating technology. The toxic relationship with Hollywood is one reason.
      I don't see why the Republicans would be any better or worse.

      Technology sits outside the brain space of politicians, so they treat is as a contribution-for-laws cash cow.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    4. Re:Obama by Dishevel · · Score: 3, Insightful

      While I kind of agree with the title 2 thing, I have to say. While the utilities have been regulated they have had almost zero innovation. The internet being unregulated for the most part has had major innovation. Would love to see net neutrality able to be done with a very soft regulatory hand.

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    5. Re:Obama by mrchaotica · · Score: 4, Insightful

      While the utilities have been regulated they have had almost zero innovation.

      You mean, while the government failed to regulate by not breaking up monopolies they have had almost zero innovation.

      The internet being unregulated for the most part has had major innovation.

      You mean, after AT&T was regulated by being broken up and by being forced to allow third-party devices (e.g. modems), major innovation was able to start.

      The Internet didn't happen because the government suddenly set telcos free; the Internet happened because the government stopped allowing telcos to prevent it!

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    6. Re:Obama by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If Obama was really so serious about it, then why does he wait until he can't do anything about it to even SAY anything? Let alone do nothing the whole time, except appoint a former telecom lobbyist to the FCC?

    7. Re:Obama by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Really? Headline from the Los Angles Times: "Obama urges net neutrality; Cruz calls it 'Obamacare for the Internet'"

      In case you have your head so far up your ass, Republicans are against government regulation. FYI Ted Cruz is a Republican who opposes government regulation.

    8. Re:Obama by Dishevel · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I think you are only looking at small parts of what has been going on in the Utilities area for the last bunch of decades.

      Widen your scope a little and you will see some glaring issues with over regulation and under regulation. For the most part under regulation of utilities causes one set of problems while over regulation stifles any real innovation.

      As in many things balance is required.

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    9. Re:Obama by radl33t · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What has Comcast innovated with respect to the internet? It's actually rather remarkable the internet has evolved in spite of our grotesque environment. I was one of the first customers on cable broadband in my area (under Time Warner, now Comcast, before one of their infamous territory swaps to trade for monopoly markets) in 1998. I paid $46/mo. I now pay $40 instead of $46 because I own my modem. I have the lowest tier of service, which is 1mb slower down than my 1998 service.

      Since that time the cable companies have come up with such innovations as requiring me to have basic cable to get internet at the regular price, banning modems that remain compliant, decreasing the cost effectiveness of my service, provide additional congestion during peak times, and eliminate or charge extra for services that were previously free (allbeit useless). Yep, that is what Comcast innovated in the last half of my life.

      In that time I lived in out state for one year and had access to two cable companies, presumably enabling the competition that brought me faster internet for $10 less. In that time I lived in Germany, where I got 50mb/50mb for a hair under $30/mo.

      I'd really like to know the innovation Comcast has brought to the table. Perhaps you can counter my experience with your own. Actually what the heck does innovation really mean in this context? How do utilities innovate at all? Why should a utility innovate at all? What do private waste management companies "innovate" that my muni garbage monopoly does not? What are some recent water/sewer/electrical/gas utility"innovations"?? IMO, this is just some bullshit buzzword that means nothing, but signals the correct political team one should join for the sake of lazy argumentation.

  2. If Obama were serious about protecting the net by Presto+Vivace · · Score: 5, Insightful

    he would not have appointed Tom Wheeler, a former telco lobbyist, to head the FCC.

    1. Re:If Obama were serious about protecting the net by squiggleslash · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If he were serious about it, he'd have announced this before the friggin' election.

      This is just setting up a fight for the next couple of years that he fully expects to lose, but in a way that leaves the opposing side less popular. That's all.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
  3. Legacy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Despite all his other downsides, this could create a legacy perception equal to that of Teddy Rosevelts's "trustbusting"

    1. Re:Legacy by CanHasDIY · · Score: 3, Insightful

      ... and expanding the PATRIOT Act, and signing the NDAA complete with extraordinary rendition of American clause, and claiming that the murder of innocent women and children via drone is entirely justifiable because "maybe there was a bad guy there once," etc., etc.

      Obama's true legacy, the one history will remember, won't be healthcare or net neutrality - he'll be remembered as "Shrub's third and fourth terms."

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
  4. They ARE a utility. by gurps_npc · · Score: 5, Insightful
    There is little difference between dial up and broadband internet access.

    They both require massive connections to other, unrelated networks - so uniformity in protocals.

    The both must also connect to human interfaces that are always made by a third party, so again, uniformity of protocals.

    They provide something that is in effect a commodity measured pretty much entirety by reliability and 'size of the pipe'. You don't get different flavors, etc.

    We are using it to get to places we want to get to, not for itself. Just like any other utility.

    Broadband is obviously a utility and should be treated as one.

    The attempt to charge people on both ends is an abuse of power. When I buy internet, I expect to get the full speed I contracted for, without regard to whomever I am connecting to at the other end.

    --
    excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
    1. Re:They ARE a utility. by Dimwit · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Except that in other parts of the developed world where ISPs are much more regulated, speeds have gone up and prices have gone down. So, you know, the exact opposite of what you said.

      --
      ...but it's being eaten...by some...Linux or something...
    2. Re:They ARE a utility. by Copid · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The important difference here is that airlines are a market with competition, so there's really no reason to think that regulation is likely to make things better. If one airline does a crappy job serving a particular route or customer set, another one is perfectly free to jump in and do a better job. In that sense, air travel is no different from shoes or cheeseburgers.

      Broadband Internet is a tougher problem. In terms of infrastructure, it's hard for a region to have robust competition. It's not as extreme as, say, sewage (where it's basically impossible to have two competing sewage systems under a city), but it's closer to that model than to a healthy market. So you're stuck dealing with pain-in-the-ass monopolies that don't innovate and don't compete on price.

      --
      An interesting anagram of "BANACH TARSKI" is "BANACH TARSKI BANACH TARSKI"
  5. And the floodgates open by OldSport · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Cue even more millions of lobbying dollars for Republicans to block NN at all costs.

    (Of course the roles would be reversed if it was a Republican president and Democratic congress.)

    1. Re:And the floodgates open by schlachter · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Politics aside, how is it that republicans want to fuck over everyone but the privileged and corporate, yet get such widespread support from the people who will suffer most from their policies?

      --
      My God can beat up your God. Just kidding...don't take offense. I know there's no God.
    2. Re:And the floodgates open by halivar · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Because Republicans are a proper subset of the group "politicians," which is defined by the property "wants to fuck over everyone but the privileged and corporate."

  6. It may be controversial... by nine-times · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It may be "a move that is sure to generate controversy", but it's the right direction for things to be moving. The Internet is not an entertainment service or a toy. It's vital infrastructure that's necessary for our society to move forward economically and technologically, and it should be treated as such. Having crappy Internet should be considered as shameful as having crappy roads, run down train systems, beat up airports, and bridges that are falling down. Unfortunately, in the US, we seem to be fine with all of that.

  7. Re:The FCC's enumerated powers by vivIsel · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The courts have essentially said that in the absence of title 2 reclassification, net neutrality won't be possible. But what the President is proposing IS title two regulation. Should the FCC move forward with this (its choice) it should not have an issue in the courts.

  8. Re:Ok, so no net neutrality in US by x0ra · · Score: 1, Insightful

    If Obama had his way, he wouldn't go through Congress for anything. Even the Congress goes beyond its prerogative through wide interpretation of the constitutional Commerce Clause. The level of authoritative, unconstitutional, power each part of the federal government goes with is amazing...

  9. Re:Why would anyone support this? by CauseBy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm pretty happy with government. I certainly have a lot of issues I'm unhappy with (surveillance, constant foreign war, too-low taxes, imprudent corporate priorities, insufficient transfer payments to the poor) but those are nitpicks compared to the things I'm fully satisfied with: domestic peace, prosperity, transportation, validity of vote counts, fading homophobia, fading racism.

    America has a lot of problems but we're doing a lot more right than wrong. I don't actually have a strong opinion on regulating internet providers but my general assumption would be whatever the industry opposes is the best thing for America. So whatever side that puts me on, I'm on that side of that issue.

  10. Re:ISPs don't want to take Cogent's money by Jason+Levine · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There are actually two problems at play here - with one common reason. The first is that the backbone ISPs are purposefully allowing their peering connections to saturate to hurt video companies like Netflix. The second is that last mile ISPs want to charge certain companies (e.g. video companies like Netflix) extra for the "privilege" of not having their packet delivery slowed to a crawl.

    The reason for both of these is that these ISPs also - for the most part - offer cable TV services. They don't want upstarts like Netflix taking money away from their cable TV revenue so they are trying every trick they can to prevent people from using Netflix. (This includes setting bandwidth caps and charging overage fees.) Given that these ISPs also tend to be monopolies (or duopolies) in their areas, these actions *should* result in anti-trust investigations. Unfortunately, enough lobbying money has been spread around to keep anti-trust proceedings from starting.

    --
    My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  11. Re:ISPs don't want to take Cogent's money by vivIsel · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So how would one go about taking away home ISPs' ability to get away with charging both sides of the connection?

    Title 2 reclassification, which the President has proposed, is *exactly* how you do this. Common carriage, a form of title 2 regulation which governs the phone system, among other things mandates that phone infrastructure owners resell service at a reasonable wholesale rate to other phone providers. This is why you can buy phone service from any phone provider - not just the one who owns the cable that comes to your house.

    The problem you're articulating - a hugely important problem - is exactly what the President is trying to tackle here. Net neutrality is part of it, but title two reclassification gives the FCC much, much broader powers to keep the eyeball networks (i.e. home broadband providers) in line. It doesn't predetermine what the FCC will do with these powers, but this is the right track.

    For more details, I recommend Susan Crawford's excellent book, Captive Audience. http://yalepress.yale.edu/book...

  12. Re:Why would anyone support this? by fnj · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Is anyone happy with the government these days? No matter the administration, all they seem to do is screw stuff up, make a mess, and start a shouting match about how it's "the other guy's fault". Every single time.

    So with that kind of a track record, why the hell would someone support the government having more control over the Internet here in the US? Come on guys, don't fall for their bullcrap anymore, at least on this site we should be smarter than that.

    Yeah, who needs it? Look how well it worked out for Somalia when their government disintegrated and they were freed from that yoke. Lebanon in the 80s and Kosovo in the 90s were such shining examples, too. And it was so much better in the USA before the Civil Rights Act and the Sherman Anti-Trust Act and the creation of the FTC.

    You're right. Comcast is so much better at controlling the internet than the government would be.

  13. It's all about Taxes by unixcorn · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Partisan policy aside, the government wants us to want them to regulate the nets. They want it because it will give them an excuse to tax your connection. Once the FCC steps in, they will need money to "manage" and to prosecute and to investigate. Mark my words, this has nothing to do with Netflix and everything to do with an additional revenue stream.

  14. Re:Ted Cruz is Already Attacking Net Neutrality by schlachter · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Interesting. The Obamacare of X analogy is great. Well, except that Obamacare is a conservative approach to healthcare, that only gets portrayed as liberal because Obama is pushing it. No one cared when Romney rolled out Romneycare in his own state.

    --
    My God can beat up your God. Just kidding...don't take offense. I know there's no God.
  15. Re:ISPs don't want to take Cogent's money by TWX · · Score: 3, Insightful

    For a long time, DSL operated at least nominally in common-carriage, mainly because DSL literally came over the same copper pair that one's telephone (which already was common-carriage) was provided through. I had a DSL account through a differnet company than my local phone service- I had one small charge for the DSL-line, and a separate charge from the company whose IP network I was a part of. In my case I did it because I was able to get a near-business-grade setup (5 usable static IPs, control of reverse-resolve, no ports blocked so I could self-host e-mail and web, etc) at a consumer-grade price.

    Given that Cable had no such rules, the phone companies that played by the common-carriage rules were hamstrung early on, until, like Cable, they started working with the mindset that DSL wasn't bound by those rules. I was grandfathered-in with my DSL arrangement until I moved, then they wouldn't offer me the connection to the ISP anymore, I had to go with Qwest. So, I switched to cable instead, and they lost-out even more as I also cancelled my landline and took the number to a cell phone. Had they continued to operate as common-carriage, I might STILL have that DSL account with those static IPs and still pay the phone company for the privilege.

    I wonder how this will affect Google Fiber?

    --
    Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
  16. Re:Ok, so no net neutrality in US by tgrigsby · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The GOP, and Mitch McConnell famously, stated that their purpose was to make Obama a one term president. Failing that, they have nearly frozen the legislative process and refused to participate in governing. So while your initial statement is subjectively accurate, the GOP left him little choice but to use the powers his office possesses to attempt to address the needs of the nation.

    --
    *** *** You're just jealous 'cause the voices talk to me... ***
  17. Re:You missed the strategy ... by tgrigsby · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The number one concern for the American vote is NOT the economy. The economy is doing great. People's paychecks are what suck. The lack of decent paying jobs is what sucks. The wage gap is what sucks. But the economy? It's doing great, thanks.

    If the GOP was concerned about the American voter, they'd up the minimum wage to $11/hr. Instead, they rely on the gerrymandering, voter suppression laws, and hundreds of millions in Koch contributions and dark money to fund propaganda that will convince people to vote against their interests.

    But people turn out for presidential elections, and I'm trusting that the GOP will be unable to fight the tidal wave of voter resentment.

    --
    *** *** You're just jealous 'cause the voices talk to me... ***
  18. health care reform by globaljustin · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'll add health care...

    I support fully socialized medicine....all health care orgs become non-profit...

    Health Care scarcity is Artificial Scarcity in 2014....in the US we have more than enough resources to give for free the health care everyone needs...So you might say I "oppose" Obamacare in that *isn't socialist enough*

    But conversely, he Republicans have only criticism of Obama's work on health care, but no actual solution for the health care crisis

    the GOP didn't even think the health care crisis was any of their concern until liberals forced the issue

    --
    Thank you Dave Raggett
  19. Re:Ted Cruz is Already Attacking Net Neutrality by Rockoon · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Well, except that Obamacare is a conservative approach to healthcare

    Only implemented twice ... once in Massachusetts which leans extremely left, and then upon the nation as a whole when the left controlled house, senate, AND whitehouse.

    You guys keep calling it the conservative approach... but it was born from liberals, and implemented by liberals every single time. Never was there a conservative government that did it.

    A conservative government wouldnt do that.

    --
    "His name was James Damore."
  20. Re:Ted Cruz is Already Attacking Net Neutrality by Jawnn · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Incorrect. Ted Cruz is no moron. He knows which side his bread is buttered on and he is wasting no time taking the position that his puppet-masters have told him to take, and he's hoping that the moron's who voted for him continue to overlook this behavior.

  21. Re:ISPs don't want to take Cogent's money by Shakrai · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Thank you for giving us the Netflix perspective. Counter arguments:

    1) Residential broadband networks were never engineered as video delivery systems. The advent of mainstream streaming video completely changed the engineering calculus for last mile networks. Over subscription ratios need to change to accommodate the higher peak hour bitrates; this takes time and costs money. Where should this money come from? Why should I pay the same for my connection as the household that's running three or four simultaneous HD streams during peak hours? My 95th percentile is less than 0.5mbit/s, yet I pay the same as my neighbor who regularly runs three HD streams at the same time. Hardly seems fair, does it?

    2) Related to the last point above, moving bits doesn't directly cost the ISP money but sustained higher bitrates do require a larger CapEx investment. Caps are a blunt force instrument that should be done away with in favor of demand or 95th percentile billing, IMHO.

    3) IPTV is inherently inefficient vis-a-vis point-to-multipoint delivery systems (i.e., cable, OTA, satellite)

    4) Settlement free peering (which is essentially what Netflix is demanding) has historically only been offered in instances where the traffic to be exchanged is roughly equal. If you're relying on me to deliver your traffic for you then you pay me. It has been this way since the beginning of the commercial internet. This ecosystem literally built the internet as we know it. If you want to blow it up the onus is on you to explain why your system is better.

    5) Netflix has a history of trying to offload their costs onto third parties, be they ISPs, Tier 1 networks, CDNs, etc.

    6) Netflix isn't exactly the white knight that everyone thinks they are. They're a for profit company; one that I stopped doing business with after they decided to double my price with little prior warning. They've cut deals that are detrimental to their customers (i.e., withholding new releases); any other company that behaved in such a fashion would be roundly hated around these parts.

    --
    I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
    We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
  22. Bullshit by s.petry · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Your point is absolutely mute because this is not about net neutrality at all. Obama's statement does not do anything _for_ net neutrality, and I'll argue that it's more to ensure Government intrusion than to ensure access for everyone. Remember that as soon as it's rated as a "utility" it will have to receive more funding from tax payers for Government "monitoring" and "regulation" (read crony appointees). If you have doubts look how AT&T receives funding from tax payers to duplicate ALL traffic to various NSA facilities today.

    If you want to see some of the most corrupt businesses alive today, look no further than utilities. This is nothing more than a front, primarily to stop the debate about Government intrusion but also to squeeze more money from the middle class.

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

  23. Re:ISPs don't want to take Cogent's money by VTBlue · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Thank you for giving us the Netflix perspective. Counter arguments:

    1) Residential broadband networks were never engineered as video delivery systems. The advent of mainstream streaming video completely changed the engineering calculus for last mile networks. Over subscription ratios need to change to accommodate the higher peak hour bitrates; this takes time and costs money. Where should this money come from? Why should I pay the same for my connection as the household that's running three or four simultaneous HD streams during peak hours? My 95th percentile is less than 0.5mbit/s, yet I pay the same as my neighbor who regularly runs three HD streams at the same time. Hardly seems fair, does it?

    2) Related to the last point above, moving bits doesn't directly cost the ISP money but sustained higher bitrates do require a larger CapEx investment. Caps are a blunt force instrument that should be done away with in favor of demand or 95th percentile billing, IMHO.

    3) IPTV is inherently inefficient vis-a-vis point-to-multipoint delivery systems (i.e., cable, OTA, satellite)

    4) Settlement free peering (which is essentially what Netflix is demanding) has historically only been offered in instances where the traffic to be exchanged is roughly equal. If you're relying on me to deliver your traffic for you then you pay me. It has been this way since the beginning of the commercial internet. This ecosystem literally built the internet as we know it. If you want to blow it up the onus is on you to explain why your system is better.

    5) Netflix has a history of trying to offload their costs onto third parties, be they ISPs, Tier 1 networks, CDNs, etc.

    6) Netflix isn't exactly the white knight that everyone thinks they are. They're a for profit company; one that I stopped doing business with after they decided to double my price with little prior warning. They've cut deals that are detrimental to their customers (i.e., withholding new releases); any other company that behaved in such a fashion would be roundly hated around these parts.

    1. False choice - how a delivery system was engineered is irrelevant. Today fiber technology and capacity exists and the infrastructure investments are not Capital intense.

    2. False - Moore's law is the technical constraint. Political will is the social constraint.

    3. False - Iptv is better at all distribution workloads for media. Networking tech easily allows for highly efficient compressed or uncompressed media delivery via multicast protocols. It is cable that is inefficient.

    4. False - research has proven that assymmeteic last mile connections can never allow for equal peering. The premise that bits flowing in one direction costs more than the other direction is a calculated business decision based on the monopoly and regulatory environment. The same way that international sms messages are technically cost less, same goes for bits traveling in either direction, it's a neutral proposition.

    5. The costs you are talking about are less than a few thousands of dollars per link. A drop in the bucket.

    6. Drop subscribtion. There are alternative media delivery businesses consumers can choose. Consumers have no such luxury under current US isp arrangements.

    Studied electrical & network engineering, public policy and econ. Counterarguments welcome :)

  24. Re:ISPs don't want to take Cogent's money by Jason+Levine · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Others have countered more of your points, but I just wanted to address this one:

    Residential broadband networks were never engineered as video delivery systems.

    The Internet in general wasn't formed with video delivery in mind. Does this mean that nobody should ever distribute video over the Internet and expect it to work? Of course not. Times change and the use case for the Internet - and residential broadband networks - change as well. Most of the problems with distributing videos across residential networks seem to be caused by the ISPs who don't want to invest in infrastructure improvements, but want to keep taking users' money. Add in that these ISPs are usually monopolies/duopolies and the market can't "fix" this situation.

    --
    My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.