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President Obama Backs Regulation of Broadband As a Utility

vivIsel writes In a move that is sure to generate controversy, the President has announced his support for regulation of broadband connections, including cellular broadband, under Title 2 of the Telecommunications Act. Reclassification of broadband in this way would treat it as a utility, like landline telephones, subject providers to new regulations governing access, and would allow the FCC to easily impose net neutrality requirements.

39 of 706 comments (clear)

  1. Obama by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Say what you want about Obama, but I guarantee the next president (probably Republican) won't care about preserving Net Neutrality.

    1. Re:Obama by AndrewBClark · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I disagree here. The CONSUMER is the one that uses the bandwidth, not the content provider. This is the equivalent to saying that Ford should pay for the impact to national highways since their deliverable is utilizing the highway more than other entities on the roadway.

    2. Re:Obama by gfxguy · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Because the content providers are not the ones using the bandwidth, it's the ISPs own customers that are using the bandwidth they paid for. Netflix doesn't push it's contents onto an ISPs network - the ISPs customer pulls it, using the bandwidth they've already paid for. If the ISP wants to charge more, or renegotiate terms with all those customers they promised "unlimited high speed" bandwidth to, that's a different story. Punishing the content providers is absurd. If you could punish the spam pushers, that'd be a different story, but companies like CNN, Yahoo, Netflix, Amazon... they don't force their content onto anyone's networks.

      --
      Stupid sexy Flanders.
    3. Re:Obama by Ferzerp · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Let me take that further.

      It would be like saying Ford should pay for highway maintenance while still funding it through gasoline taxes, etc as well. Additionally, the roads would never be maintained beyond the bare minimum and rarely if ever expanded, even though they are double funded.

      There is the car/road analogy that you were looking for.

    4. Re:Obama by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Say what you want about Obama, but I guarantee the next president (probably Republican) won't care about preserving Net Neutrality.

      I might be a tree hugging liberal, but the Dems have an awful record when it comes to regulating technology. The toxic relationship with Hollywood is one reason.
      I don't see why the Republicans would be any better or worse.

      Technology sits outside the brain space of politicians, so they treat is as a contribution-for-laws cash cow.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    5. Re:Obama by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      That is false. NetFlix has offered many times to provide fee CDN service to the ISP. While that may alleviate the internal traffic issue for customers, it doesn't solve the extra $$$ the ISP's want so they don't take it.

    6. Re:Obama by OhPlz · · Score: 4, Funny

      If you like your Internet service, you can keep it. Period.

    7. Re:Obama by towermac · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Well, I'm a tree hugging conservative... whatever, and Obama can't get out of bed in the morning to suit me. But this is a really good move on his part. That woman he nominated for Holder's job; good choice also. Sending more help to fight ISIS; another good move.

      I guess he cares far less about politics now than a week ago. It'd be funny if he turns out to be a good president for these last 2 years

    8. Re:Obama by Mordok-DestroyerOfWo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This may actually be the stupidest thing I've ever seen on ./. So kudos, to you.

      --
      "Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right" - Salvor Hardin
    9. Re:Obama by mrchaotica · · Score: 4, Insightful

      While the utilities have been regulated they have had almost zero innovation.

      You mean, while the government failed to regulate by not breaking up monopolies they have had almost zero innovation.

      The internet being unregulated for the most part has had major innovation.

      You mean, after AT&T was regulated by being broken up and by being forced to allow third-party devices (e.g. modems), major innovation was able to start.

      The Internet didn't happen because the government suddenly set telcos free; the Internet happened because the government stopped allowing telcos to prevent it!

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    10. Re:Obama by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Really? Headline from the Los Angles Times: "Obama urges net neutrality; Cruz calls it 'Obamacare for the Internet'"

      In case you have your head so far up your ass, Republicans are against government regulation. FYI Ted Cruz is a Republican who opposes government regulation.

    11. Re:Obama by schnell · · Score: 5, Informative

      You mean, after AT&T was regulated by being broken up and by being forced to allow third-party devices (e.g. modems), major innovation was able to start.

      Umm, no. On a couple counts:

      • Divestiture didn't have anything to do with attaching 3rd party devices to the phone network; you're thinking of the Carterfone decision from 1968, which was a full 16 years before AT&T was split up.
      • AT&T was actually more heavily regulated before its divestiture, as a nationwide telecommunications monopoly. It was prevented from getting into whole lines of business (hence why it gave away UNIX because it couldn't sell it). The divestiture was pursued specifically to strip away the heavily regulated parts (the local telcos) from the largely unregulated parts (long distance, cable, etc.) See this book for more details. Under that regulation, think about the degree of innovation you got out of the Baby Bells... who were still pushing ISDN as "broadband" in the late '90s.
      • The one piece of regulation that did actually manage to spur consumer-friendly innovation in telecom in recent memory was the 1996 Telecom Act, which actually reduced regulation in many areas (the "carrot" for telcos) while simultaneously increasing competition in others (the "stick"), such as forcing the Baby Bells to allow competitive access to their DSLAMs to provide DSL service, etc.

      Regulation is very important in many industries, including telecommunications. But it is almost never synonymous with innovation.

      --
      "95% of all Slashdot .sig quotes are incorrect or completely fabricated." -Benjamin Franklin
    12. Re:Obama by Dishevel · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I think you are only looking at small parts of what has been going on in the Utilities area for the last bunch of decades.

      Widen your scope a little and you will see some glaring issues with over regulation and under regulation. For the most part under regulation of utilities causes one set of problems while over regulation stifles any real innovation.

      As in many things balance is required.

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    13. Re:Obama by NoImNotNineVolt · · Score: 4, Funny

      If you like your Internet service, you can keep it. Period.

      Cue the idiots complaining that Obama lied because passage of the Fair Networking Act (Obamanet) has caused their ISP to stop offering 4800 baud dialup plans.

      --
      Chuuch. Preach. Tabernacle.
    14. Re:Obama by radl33t · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What has Comcast innovated with respect to the internet? It's actually rather remarkable the internet has evolved in spite of our grotesque environment. I was one of the first customers on cable broadband in my area (under Time Warner, now Comcast, before one of their infamous territory swaps to trade for monopoly markets) in 1998. I paid $46/mo. I now pay $40 instead of $46 because I own my modem. I have the lowest tier of service, which is 1mb slower down than my 1998 service.

      Since that time the cable companies have come up with such innovations as requiring me to have basic cable to get internet at the regular price, banning modems that remain compliant, decreasing the cost effectiveness of my service, provide additional congestion during peak times, and eliminate or charge extra for services that were previously free (allbeit useless). Yep, that is what Comcast innovated in the last half of my life.

      In that time I lived in out state for one year and had access to two cable companies, presumably enabling the competition that brought me faster internet for $10 less. In that time I lived in Germany, where I got 50mb/50mb for a hair under $30/mo.

      I'd really like to know the innovation Comcast has brought to the table. Perhaps you can counter my experience with your own. Actually what the heck does innovation really mean in this context? How do utilities innovate at all? Why should a utility innovate at all? What do private waste management companies "innovate" that my muni garbage monopoly does not? What are some recent water/sewer/electrical/gas utility"innovations"?? IMO, this is just some bullshit buzzword that means nothing, but signals the correct political team one should join for the sake of lazy argumentation.

  2. Ok, so no net neutrality in US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    This clearly means no net neutrality in the US. If Obama wanted net neutrality, he would oppose it and Republicans would then be for it. But by supporting it, republicans will never start any such legislation now. Maybe even the opposite of net neutrality will be what they will pass.

    1. Re:Ok, so no net neutrality in US by tgrigsby · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The GOP, and Mitch McConnell famously, stated that their purpose was to make Obama a one term president. Failing that, they have nearly frozen the legislative process and refused to participate in governing. So while your initial statement is subjectively accurate, the GOP left him little choice but to use the powers his office possesses to attempt to address the needs of the nation.

      --
      *** *** You're just jealous 'cause the voices talk to me... ***
    2. Re:Ok, so no net neutrality in US by tgrigsby · · Score: 4, Funny

      ... If Obama wanted net neutrality, he would oppose it and Republicans would then be for it. But by supporting it, republicans will never start any such legislation now. Maybe even the opposite of net neutrality will be what they will pass.

      Wow. You make it sound like Congress is focused solely on obstruction. Surely a congressional body elected to represent the United States citizenry would never harm the nation by outright obstructing positive legislative efforts?

      Sorry, I've been in a coma for the last 6 years. Did I miss something?

      --
      *** *** You're just jealous 'cause the voices talk to me... ***
  3. If Obama were serious about protecting the net by Presto+Vivace · · Score: 5, Insightful

    he would not have appointed Tom Wheeler, a former telco lobbyist, to head the FCC.

    1. Re: If Obama were serious about protecting the net by njnnja · · Score: 4, Funny

      More lobbiest

      No it's either "more lobbier" or "most lobbiest."

      *ducks*

  4. They ARE a utility. by gurps_npc · · Score: 5, Insightful
    There is little difference between dial up and broadband internet access.

    They both require massive connections to other, unrelated networks - so uniformity in protocals.

    The both must also connect to human interfaces that are always made by a third party, so again, uniformity of protocals.

    They provide something that is in effect a commodity measured pretty much entirety by reliability and 'size of the pipe'. You don't get different flavors, etc.

    We are using it to get to places we want to get to, not for itself. Just like any other utility.

    Broadband is obviously a utility and should be treated as one.

    The attempt to charge people on both ends is an abuse of power. When I buy internet, I expect to get the full speed I contracted for, without regard to whomever I am connecting to at the other end.

    --
    excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
    1. Re:They ARE a utility. by Dimwit · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Except that in other parts of the developed world where ISPs are much more regulated, speeds have gone up and prices have gone down. So, you know, the exact opposite of what you said.

      --
      ...but it's being eaten...by some...Linux or something...
    2. Re:They ARE a utility. by Copid · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The important difference here is that airlines are a market with competition, so there's really no reason to think that regulation is likely to make things better. If one airline does a crappy job serving a particular route or customer set, another one is perfectly free to jump in and do a better job. In that sense, air travel is no different from shoes or cheeseburgers.

      Broadband Internet is a tougher problem. In terms of infrastructure, it's hard for a region to have robust competition. It's not as extreme as, say, sewage (where it's basically impossible to have two competing sewage systems under a city), but it's closer to that model than to a healthy market. So you're stuck dealing with pain-in-the-ass monopolies that don't innovate and don't compete on price.

      --
      An interesting anagram of "BANACH TARSKI" is "BANACH TARSKI BANACH TARSKI"
  5. And the floodgates open by OldSport · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Cue even more millions of lobbying dollars for Republicans to block NN at all costs.

    (Of course the roles would be reversed if it was a Republican president and Democratic congress.)

    1. Re:And the floodgates open by iluvcapra · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Politics aside, how is it that republicans want to fuck over everyone but the privileged and corporate, yet get such widespread support from the people who will suffer most from their policies?

      This is the "What's the Matter with Kansas?" problem. The short answer is, most rural populist types would probably fare better under a Democratic economic regime, but it really wouldn't be that much better. On the other hand, Republicans make few concrete promises economically, but they make broad promises about how they will sustain rural culture -- they fight for gun rights, and for the protection of traditional religious values, and against abortion, and gays. And in the end both parties mostly work in the interests of large corporations. In the end, Democrats promise a Starbucks in every town, and Republicans promise a cross on every door.

      Also Democrats are generally supportive of state services, and things like Obamacare, which would improve the lot of poor voters in general, but a lot of poor people are simply morally opposed to accepting "welfare," and the slightly-better-off people around them are all downright hostile to the idea. This persists even if the "welfare" in question is completely pro-market, means tested, economically justified and everything else -- it's because American culture has moralistic, puritanical beliefs about thrift and work that are impervious to facts. The liberal tendency in American politics promises poor people a leg up, at the cost of their soul and their meritocratic ideals -- they'll get ahead but "everyone" will know they don't deserve it; meanwhile the conservative tendency promises a boot on your neck, but offers the guarantee that when you get the boot, you'll feel like you deserve it. People are attracted to appearance of order and justice, even if it hurts them.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
  6. It may be controversial... by nine-times · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It may be "a move that is sure to generate controversy", but it's the right direction for things to be moving. The Internet is not an entertainment service or a toy. It's vital infrastructure that's necessary for our society to move forward economically and technologically, and it should be treated as such. Having crappy Internet should be considered as shameful as having crappy roads, run down train systems, beat up airports, and bridges that are falling down. Unfortunately, in the US, we seem to be fine with all of that.

  7. ISPs don't want to take Cogent's money by tepples · · Score: 4, Interesting

    In the highest profile case, Cogent has offered to cover the capital costs of the needed upgrade. The problem is that last-mile ISPs are trying to collect ongoing monopoly rents by charging transit to backbone providers well in excess of the ISP's actual cost of moving the bits, when the ISP's customers are already paying their part of the cost of moving the bits.

    So how would one go about taking away home ISPs' ability to get away with charging both sides of the connection?

    1. Re:ISPs don't want to take Cogent's money by Jason+Levine · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There are actually two problems at play here - with one common reason. The first is that the backbone ISPs are purposefully allowing their peering connections to saturate to hurt video companies like Netflix. The second is that last mile ISPs want to charge certain companies (e.g. video companies like Netflix) extra for the "privilege" of not having their packet delivery slowed to a crawl.

      The reason for both of these is that these ISPs also - for the most part - offer cable TV services. They don't want upstarts like Netflix taking money away from their cable TV revenue so they are trying every trick they can to prevent people from using Netflix. (This includes setting bandwidth caps and charging overage fees.) Given that these ISPs also tend to be monopolies (or duopolies) in their areas, these actions *should* result in anti-trust investigations. Unfortunately, enough lobbying money has been spread around to keep anti-trust proceedings from starting.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    2. Re:ISPs don't want to take Cogent's money by vivIsel · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So how would one go about taking away home ISPs' ability to get away with charging both sides of the connection?

      Title 2 reclassification, which the President has proposed, is *exactly* how you do this. Common carriage, a form of title 2 regulation which governs the phone system, among other things mandates that phone infrastructure owners resell service at a reasonable wholesale rate to other phone providers. This is why you can buy phone service from any phone provider - not just the one who owns the cable that comes to your house.

      The problem you're articulating - a hugely important problem - is exactly what the President is trying to tackle here. Net neutrality is part of it, but title two reclassification gives the FCC much, much broader powers to keep the eyeball networks (i.e. home broadband providers) in line. It doesn't predetermine what the FCC will do with these powers, but this is the right track.

      For more details, I recommend Susan Crawford's excellent book, Captive Audience. http://yalepress.yale.edu/book...

    3. Re:ISPs don't want to take Cogent's money by ldconfig · · Score: 5, Informative

      Comcast admitted to congress (The House hearings about the Comcast Time Warner Merger) that what they pay for data has gone down over 99% in the last 10 years.

      --
      The spelling and grammar police can kiss my ass
    4. Re:ISPs don't want to take Cogent's money by VTBlue · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Thank you for giving us the Netflix perspective. Counter arguments:

      1) Residential broadband networks were never engineered as video delivery systems. The advent of mainstream streaming video completely changed the engineering calculus for last mile networks. Over subscription ratios need to change to accommodate the higher peak hour bitrates; this takes time and costs money. Where should this money come from? Why should I pay the same for my connection as the household that's running three or four simultaneous HD streams during peak hours? My 95th percentile is less than 0.5mbit/s, yet I pay the same as my neighbor who regularly runs three HD streams at the same time. Hardly seems fair, does it?

      2) Related to the last point above, moving bits doesn't directly cost the ISP money but sustained higher bitrates do require a larger CapEx investment. Caps are a blunt force instrument that should be done away with in favor of demand or 95th percentile billing, IMHO.

      3) IPTV is inherently inefficient vis-a-vis point-to-multipoint delivery systems (i.e., cable, OTA, satellite)

      4) Settlement free peering (which is essentially what Netflix is demanding) has historically only been offered in instances where the traffic to be exchanged is roughly equal. If you're relying on me to deliver your traffic for you then you pay me. It has been this way since the beginning of the commercial internet. This ecosystem literally built the internet as we know it. If you want to blow it up the onus is on you to explain why your system is better.

      5) Netflix has a history of trying to offload their costs onto third parties, be they ISPs, Tier 1 networks, CDNs, etc.

      6) Netflix isn't exactly the white knight that everyone thinks they are. They're a for profit company; one that I stopped doing business with after they decided to double my price with little prior warning. They've cut deals that are detrimental to their customers (i.e., withholding new releases); any other company that behaved in such a fashion would be roundly hated around these parts.

      1. False choice - how a delivery system was engineered is irrelevant. Today fiber technology and capacity exists and the infrastructure investments are not Capital intense.

      2. False - Moore's law is the technical constraint. Political will is the social constraint.

      3. False - Iptv is better at all distribution workloads for media. Networking tech easily allows for highly efficient compressed or uncompressed media delivery via multicast protocols. It is cable that is inefficient.

      4. False - research has proven that assymmeteic last mile connections can never allow for equal peering. The premise that bits flowing in one direction costs more than the other direction is a calculated business decision based on the monopoly and regulatory environment. The same way that international sms messages are technically cost less, same goes for bits traveling in either direction, it's a neutral proposition.

      5. The costs you are talking about are less than a few thousands of dollars per link. A drop in the bucket.

      6. Drop subscribtion. There are alternative media delivery businesses consumers can choose. Consumers have no such luxury under current US isp arrangements.

      Studied electrical & network engineering, public policy and econ. Counterarguments welcome :)

  8. Re:The FCC's enumerated powers by vivIsel · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The courts have essentially said that in the absence of title 2 reclassification, net neutrality won't be possible. But what the President is proposing IS title two regulation. Should the FCC move forward with this (its choice) it should not have an issue in the courts.

  9. Re:Why would anyone support this? by CauseBy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm pretty happy with government. I certainly have a lot of issues I'm unhappy with (surveillance, constant foreign war, too-low taxes, imprudent corporate priorities, insufficient transfer payments to the poor) but those are nitpicks compared to the things I'm fully satisfied with: domestic peace, prosperity, transportation, validity of vote counts, fading homophobia, fading racism.

    America has a lot of problems but we're doing a lot more right than wrong. I don't actually have a strong opinion on regulating internet providers but my general assumption would be whatever the industry opposes is the best thing for America. So whatever side that puts me on, I'm on that side of that issue.

  10. Ted Cruz is Already Attacking Net Neutrality by l0ungeb0y · · Score: 5, Informative

    Seems Ted Cruz is not wasting any time in opposing Obama on Net Neutrality by calling it "ObamaCare for the Internet", a laughably stupid hyperbolic statement only a complete moron would make -- unfortunately, he's got a support base of tens of millions even bigger morons who will think this idiotic statement is actually accurate.

    1. Re:Ted Cruz is Already Attacking Net Neutrality by schlachter · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Interesting. The Obamacare of X analogy is great. Well, except that Obamacare is a conservative approach to healthcare, that only gets portrayed as liberal because Obama is pushing it. No one cared when Romney rolled out Romneycare in his own state.

      --
      My God can beat up your God. Just kidding...don't take offense. I know there's no God.
  11. Re:Why would anyone support this? by fnj · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Is anyone happy with the government these days? No matter the administration, all they seem to do is screw stuff up, make a mess, and start a shouting match about how it's "the other guy's fault". Every single time.

    So with that kind of a track record, why the hell would someone support the government having more control over the Internet here in the US? Come on guys, don't fall for their bullcrap anymore, at least on this site we should be smarter than that.

    Yeah, who needs it? Look how well it worked out for Somalia when their government disintegrated and they were freed from that yoke. Lebanon in the 80s and Kosovo in the 90s were such shining examples, too. And it was so much better in the USA before the Civil Rights Act and the Sherman Anti-Trust Act and the creation of the FTC.

    You're right. Comcast is so much better at controlling the internet than the government would be.

  12. Not saying it's right but I understand by sjbe · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If Obama had his way, he wouldn't go through Congress for anything.

    I'm not saying he should rule by fiat or anything of the sort but I understand the frustration the guy must feel. Would you be eager to go to congress when the republicans oppose everything he does regardless of the merits of the idea? Even when the item being debated was their idea. They don't even try to compromise, they just say no, especially if they are a tea party candidate. Used to be that the two sides could at least talk to each other. Now a republican has to pass an ideological purity test and cannot ever even seem to be compromising or he doesn't even win the primary in the next election. The republicans like to bitch about the Affordable Care Act but they don't ever propose any alternatives or improvements even though there is plenty that could be improved. Instead they just waste everyone's time in futile votes trying to remove health insurance from millions of people that couldn't previously afford it.

  13. Bullshit by s.petry · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Your point is absolutely mute because this is not about net neutrality at all. Obama's statement does not do anything _for_ net neutrality, and I'll argue that it's more to ensure Government intrusion than to ensure access for everyone. Remember that as soon as it's rated as a "utility" it will have to receive more funding from tax payers for Government "monitoring" and "regulation" (read crony appointees). If you have doubts look how AT&T receives funding from tax payers to duplicate ALL traffic to various NSA facilities today.

    If you want to see some of the most corrupt businesses alive today, look no further than utilities. This is nothing more than a front, primarily to stop the debate about Government intrusion but also to squeeze more money from the middle class.

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    1. Re:Bullshit by timeOday · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If you want to see some of the most corrupt businesses alive today, look no further than utilities. This is nothing more than a front, primarily to stop the debate about Government intrusion but also to squeeze more money from the middle class.

      What utilities are you referring to? My sewers, water, electricity, and gas all keep flowing, and at reasonable rates. I certainly would not want them transformed into Comcast-esque money-grubbers. Privatization in the absence of competition is the worst of both worlds, and that's what broadband to my home currently is.

      With respect to government intrusion, assuming you buy the line that it's any different from, or even separate from, corporate intrusion (which I don't, since companies simply sell it to the govt) - the US Mail has the strongest legal guarantees of privacy, as far as I can tell, with phone being next. It seems to be in decreasing order of when invented, rather than public/private. At least with a utility there's a possibility of meaningful privacy regulations, if the public ever decides to start wanting them.